Is ecdysterone garbage ?
- Thread starter ReaperX
- Start date
Hank Vangut
Well-known member
define 'decent results'
pistonpump
Banned
i wouldnt say its garbage just maybe cost to benefiet is a little off to make it a regular supp.
ReaperX
Well-known member
Does that mean you noticed benefits from using it ?
hrdgain81
Member
I have used ecdy in bulk a few times, and a 6 week run of anagen and didnt see any results that would lead me to believe it had a benificial effect. I did gain, but my diet and training were in order.
However, from doing a little more research, I found that the half life of ecdy is very short, and it should be dosed with protien to maximize the effects. I believe there was an ecdy thread here at AM that informed me of this. I have not yet tried a protocol like this, but I plan to in the near future.
However, from doing a little more research, I found that the half life of ecdy is very short, and it should be dosed with protien to maximize the effects. I believe there was an ecdy thread here at AM that informed me of this. I have not yet tried a protocol like this, but I plan to in the near future.
Rodja
Board Sponsor
As one of the resident ecdy whores, I am a firm believer that it works, but not in a traditional BB capacity. It is an ergogenic aid that helps in nutrient repartitioning, nitrogen retention, and endurance. It is not a mass builder, even though it is generally promoted as one.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
But what was the percentage extract? Besides, that is too low of a dose.
thesinner
Recovering AXoholic
Ecdy in itself is not going to be anabolic. It increases nitrogen retention and erythropoiesis. In my opinion, ecdy was totally mismarketted and the bull**** claims you saw with Ecdysten and SyntraEC are just that. It works fantastic, however, for recovery and endurance.
The two downers with ecdy:
1) Very short half life and poor absorption. This stuff needs to be taken in frequent large doses to get much of any benefit from it.
2) It can hinder cholesterol production.
Cholesterol -> Pregnelone -> DHEA -> 4-AD/5-AD -> Testosterone. In rather indirect manner, it could lower test production through a mechanism independent of the AR, who would've thought?
Therefore, you will may want to take it with a steroid, prohormone, or steroidal AI as to increase testosterone and/or testosterone production. Since ecdy is 0% androgenic, you do not reap as many of the awesome androgenic benefits you get from other products you see nowadays. I think stacking with something androgenic could prove to be beneficial. (*cough* massfx/hyperdrol)
The two downers with ecdy:
1) Very short half life and poor absorption. This stuff needs to be taken in frequent large doses to get much of any benefit from it.
2) It can hinder cholesterol production.
Cholesterol -> Pregnelone -> DHEA -> 4-AD/5-AD -> Testosterone. In rather indirect manner, it could lower test production through a mechanism independent of the AR, who would've thought?
Therefore, you will may want to take it with a steroid, prohormone, or steroidal AI as to increase testosterone and/or testosterone production. Since ecdy is 0% androgenic, you do not reap as many of the awesome androgenic benefits you get from other products you see nowadays. I think stacking with something androgenic could prove to be beneficial. (*cough* massfx/hyperdrol)
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
Have you run a Methoxy/X-factor stack?
jjohn
Registered User
TripDog
Bananas
It was the Sci-Fit stuff..300mg per cap, this was like 4 years ago though.
mwkcronin
New member
Have been on the NutraPlanet Bulk Ecdysterone for about 3 weeks now. Using it while getting ready for a show in April. It does seem to help in regards to recovery, and is best used when dieting in my opinion. Less muscle loss, and helps (if taken 10 minutes prior to protein meal) with protein synthesis!
ReaperX
Well-known member
Tell me how you quantified that it 'helped' with protein synthesis ?
thesinner
Recovering AXoholic
To quantify something, you need a number and units.
ReaperX
Well-known member
correct.
Steveoph
NutraPlanet NinjaMonkey Rep
If I had to guess I'd say he was referring to muscle growth/synthesis. Perhaps he took measurements. We are awaiting mwkcronkin's reply.
mwkcronin
New member
Sorry for the delay you all. Okay, no numbers or charts to back any positive results from Ecdy, and understand and respect the question.
Just went by the directions related to the product. Currently take 1/4 grams 10 minutes prior to my meals 3 times a day.
Higher nitrogen retention levels, along with higher protein synthesis on a cut hopefully means less muscle loss while dieting.
Am leaner, and my strenth is still apparent as well!
Just went by the directions related to the product. Currently take 1/4 grams 10 minutes prior to my meals 3 times a day.
Higher nitrogen retention levels, along with higher protein synthesis on a cut hopefully means less muscle loss while dieting.
Am leaner, and my strenth is still apparent as well!
djbombsquad
Board Sponsor
I could not locate any studies on ecdysterone. The supplement companies I contacted couldn’t produce them either. The studies I could track down on ecdysterone had nothing to do with building muscle or enhancing athletic performance.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
It's Cyanotis vaga extracted to 94 % ecdysterone.
Still not sure I understand the angle on the "better" version, though.
thesinner
Recovering AXoholic
Ron Kramer was *****ing the other week that Thermolife "Innovated" ecdysterones, and that all the other companies who followed had failed because they are not Thermolife and all the ecdysterone research was based on ecdysterone (the exact same compound, mind you) found in Maral root, and they were using Cyatonis Vaga.
I don't really know where to begin with that.....where to begin whiping the **** off of my boots that is.
I mean, I can understand a lower potency extract having a lower absorption rate, since his competators were using 50%-60% extract, but I don't recall Ecdysten being all too effective either (especially at 25mg dosages, whoa), and I'm still trying to figure out how the metabolism of the human body (a series of continuous organic reactions) can create a bias between the reactivities of EXACT SAME CHEMICAL by it's source of origin.pushinweightw
Member
I have always had better results when I use it on a cut. By better I mean I retained more muscle while losing the same amount of fat. This has always been a challenge, meaning to say I always lost way to much muscle when dieting.
Rodja
Board Sponsor
Its the shizz, but dose the Fenotest at 6caps/day. The Anagen should have dosing recommendations on the bottle.
TripDog
Bananas
There are NO EFFECTS of ecty...let alone side effects, trust tried and true
DaveGabe24
Well-known member
Hmm this seems a bit extreme to me. Arguing there is zero anabolic benefits, or something of that sort is reasonable but to say NO EFFECTS....I dunno about that one man.
There's been studies in humans proving it to help protein synthesis, nitrogen retention, recovery, etc.
djbombsquad
Board Sponsor
Ecdysterone or is plant sterol. Sterol not steroid. Plant sterols are natural evolutionary substances manufactured within plants that provide nutrients primarily to insects and some small animals.
To date there is no valid research indicating that 20 Beta-Hydroxyecdysterone (Ecdysterone) provides any legitimate anabolic (muscle building) effect in humans. Absolutely no published research. What little research there is on this compound is devoted to insects and rats.
To date there is no valid research indicating that 20 Beta-Hydroxyecdysterone (Ecdysterone) provides any legitimate anabolic (muscle building) effect in humans. Absolutely no published research. What little research there is on this compound is devoted to insects and rats.
djbombsquad
Board Sponsor
Sterols were promoted heavily in the 80s' but quickly fell by the wayside simply because they didn't work. They didn't work then and putting them in a bottle with a new label isn't going to make them work now.
DaveGabe24
Well-known member
I would also like to add that I feel this is one of those instances where you really need full studies. Abstracts just don't cut it with ecdy, there is too many variables that can skew results or give wrong impressions. From the dose, to the extract, there are many different parts to the equation of whether or not ecdy is effective. Not to mention, the term effective is very subjective, and people may be looking for different results.
There's been some good threads over at bb.com, I'll try quoting some of the threads so you guys don't have to dig through all the other bs posts in the threads
There's been some good threads over at bb.com, I'll try quoting some of the threads so you guys don't have to dig through all the other bs posts in the threads
thesinner
Recovering AXoholic
any chemical derivation of sterane is a steroid. A sterol is a steroid. Ecdy is a steroid. It is not an androgen.
thesinner
Recovering AXoholic
Ecdy also has increases the rate of Erythropoiesis (production of red blood cells), lowers cholesterol, and stimulates the release of insulin.
DaveGabe24
Well-known member
Yep, was just mentioning a few things. You seem to be much more knowledgeable on the subject matter, but I thought I'd try and throw my 2 cents in as I did give E-Bol a run a while back, and while it didn't help with mass, I most definitely noitced a bit of leaning out as my strength increased.
I agree with the majority that the hype was a bit strong, but I think with the right benefits in mind, the proper dosing/extract, ecdy can be beneficial in its own ways.
Rodja
Board Sponsor
This is probably the 10th time I've said this, but ecdy is not a mass builder. It is an ergogenic aid that encompasses many important elements to strength, endurance, body comp, etc.
DaveGabe24
Well-known member
Rodja
Board Sponsor
and I was agreeing with you
It wasn't aimed at you. It was more of a general statement about the horrible misunderstanding about ecdy's effects.
DaveGabe24
Well-known member
Yeah that's what I was trying to point out as well. With the right effects being expect of ecdy I bet there would be a lot more happy consumers out there.
Rodja
Board Sponsor
Yep, I love to use ecdy when I am prepping for a fight because of its positive effects on EPO, nitrogen retention, and leaning effects.
musclemilk40
Banned
its a joke
its hyped up bs from supplement companies knowing that the ph's that are available now will be gone in a year or less. Therefore, they are filling the pipelines with this bs so that you buy this crap when nothing good is available. You get more from plain ole liver tabs than the ecdysterones their hyping as the the next big thing. Whatever, it didnt work 10 years ago, and it dont work NOw period. I hear gamma oryzanol and dibencozide are making comebacks too! Save your money and buy some Aminos
its hyped up bs from supplement companies knowing that the ph's that are available now will be gone in a year or less. Therefore, they are filling the pipelines with this bs so that you buy this crap when nothing good is available. You get more from plain ole liver tabs than the ecdysterones their hyping as the the next big thing. Whatever, it didnt work 10 years ago, and it dont work NOw period. I hear gamma oryzanol and dibencozide are making comebacks too! Save your money and buy some Aminos
DaveGabe24
Well-known member
Lol @ the strong finish. "buy some aminos."
PowerHouse555
Member
I had success with Sci-Fits Ecdysterone 300 it tells you to take one cap with twice a day with a high protien meal...I however toke 2-3 pills with a "HIGH PROTIEN" meal. I think most use to low of a dose along not doing it with protien.