Blackstone Labs - PJ Braun - Aaron Singerman - Robert DiMaggio Indicted

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by WesleyInman View Post
    It was the Arkansas retailer. Read it closely. He allowed them to set up shipments. Guy probably got nailed for something else and then ratted on PJ and then they started investigating.

    Thing is, msten, dmz and 1-alpha were not "controlled substances". They are NOT on the banned Anabolics list, nor are they on the new Banned ProHormone list. I am unsure how they intend to prosecute a crime, for a law that didn't exist and still does not. You can't retroactively punish someone.
    They are not supplements either.
    You can't just add a steroid, currently scheduled in the US or not, to a dietary supplement. There are guidelines and fda ruled. Methyl sten doesn't supplement your diet and is not derived from a plant.
    I think these guys are in deep water.
    Nothing against them. Aaron and Rob are nice enough guys. It's easy to get caught up when you start making money hand over fist. Go from not having much to sports cars and houses in short time and it's easy to see why they would want to continue.
    Ultimately, according to some of the communication shown, they knew what they were doing.
    Will be interesting to see how this pans out. How it effects Redcon1 and if they do serious jail time
    BLACK LION RESEARCH
    Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower.
    -Steve Jobs


  2. Quote Originally Posted by WesleyInman View Post
    It was the Arkansas retailer. Read it closely. He allowed them to set up shipments. Guy probably got nailed for something else and then ratted on PJ and then they started investigating.

    Thing is, msten, dmz and 1-alpha were not "controlled substances". They are NOT on the banned Anabolics list, nor are they on the new Banned ProHormone list. I am unsure how they intend to prosecute a crime, for a law that didn't exist and still does not. You can't retroactively punish someone.
    Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post
    They are not supplements either.
    You can't just add a steroid, currently scheduled in the US or not, to a dietary supplement. There are guidelines and fda ruled. Methylated doesn't supplement your diet and is not derived from a plant.
    Wesley, we've been through this so many times.

    Methylstenbolone, dmz, and M1A ARE scheduled drugs as a result of DASCA which was passed in 2014.

    ``(C)(i) Subject to clause (ii), a drug or hormonal substance (other
    than estrogens, progestins, corticosteroids, and dehydroepiandrosterone)
    that is not listed in subparagraph (A) and is derived from, or has a
    chemical structure substantially similar to, 1 or more anabolic steroids
    listed in subparagraph (A) shall be considered to be an anabolic steroid
    for purposes of this Act if--
    ``(I) the drug or substance has been created or manufactured
    with the intent of producing a drug or other substance that
    either--
    ``(aa) promotes muscle growth; or
    ``(bb) otherwise causes a pharmacological effect
    similar to that of testosterone; or
    ``(II) the drug or substance has been, or is intended to be,
    marketed or otherwise promoted in any manner suggesting that
    consuming it will promote muscle growth or any other
    pharmacological effect similar to that of testosterone.
    Non-affiliated
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    Wesley, we've been through this so many times.

    Methylstenbolone, dmz, and M1A ARE scheduled drugs as a result of DASCA which was passed in 2014.
    Exactly. I think people get confused here.
    It is not now, nor has it ever been, legal to sell any anabolic steroid as a supplement. Lots of people did it yes and there were all kinds of conversations regarding if particular aas were scheduled in the US but even if they were not an anabolic steroid is not a dietary supplement.
    Same with sarms.
    Same with all the sketchy stims out there claimed to come from plants but which are 100%synthetic.
    BLACK LION RESEARCH
    Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower.
    -Steve Jobs

  4. And itís over super dmz 2.0

    Great. Next year MSten and dmz will be scheduled.
    Do as I say, not as I do.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post
    Exactly. I think people get confused here.
    It is not now, nor has it ever been, legal to sell any anabolic steroid as a supplement. Lots of people did it yes and there were all kinds of conversations regarding if particular aas were scheduled in the US but even if they were not an anabolic steroid is not a dietary supplement.
    Same with sarms.
    Same with all the sketchy stims out there claimed to come from plants but which are 100%synthetic.
    Still legal to possess.

    You canít just blanket schedule ďanything that causes this effectĒ that isnít how the law works, even if you write it that way. Which is why we arenít seeing illegal possession charges and only illegal supplement distribution charges.

    Itís illegal to put it into a supplement, thatís true. But unlisted AAS are fair game for possession even if the law attempts to say otherwise. Until itís specifically listed on the drug schedule by name.
    Do as I say, not as I do.
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by Old Witch View Post
    And it’s over super dmz 2.0

    Great. Next year MSten and dmz will be scheduled.
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Witch View Post
    Still legal to possess.

    You can’t just blanket schedule “anything that causes this effect” that isn’t how the law works, even if you write it that way. Which is why we aren’t seeing illegal possession charges and only illegal supplement distribution charges.

    It’s illegal to put it into a supplement, that’s true. But unlisted AAS are fair game for possession even if the law attempts to say otherwise. Until it’s specifically listed on the drug schedule by name.
    according to the FDA, the're going to all be scheduled.

    https://medium.com/@anthonyroberts/d...i-1bd819b2e8eb

    legal to possess for NOW, illegal to be sold as dietary supplements ALWAYS.
    Non-affiliated

  7. Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    according to the FDA, the're going to all be scheduled.

    https://medium.com/@anthonyroberts/d...i-1bd819b2e8eb

    legal to possess for NOW, illegal to be sold as dietary supplements ALWAYS.
    Looks like 4 andro is on that list. Thatís ridiculous. And no trest. Buffoons. No idea what theyíre doing.
    Do as I say, not as I do.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Old Witch View Post
    Still legal to possess.

    You canít just blanket schedule ďanything that causes this effectĒ that isnít how the law works, even if you write it that way. Which is why we arenít seeing illegal possession charges and only illegal supplement distribution charges.

    Itís illegal to put it into a supplement, thatís true. But unlisted AAS are fair game for possession even if the law attempts to say otherwise. Until itís specifically listed on the drug schedule by name.
    His post didnít even mention possession though, just sale?

  9. Stock up

  10. That still leaves us with trest, Hexadrone, Max LMG, desoxy test, dienolone, methyldiazirinol, 18-methyl nandrolone, 1-andro, epiandro, andro, among others...
    Do as I say, not as I do.

  11. Iím stocking up on m1A and MSten. Dmz can go away, Iím fine with that.
    Do as I say, not as I do.

  12. UGLs carry superdrol and M1T. only a matter of time before they carry MSten and some others as well. Theyíre strong enough to warrant it.

    And then youíll really see crazy doses. 50mg MSten in one tablet. Stuff like that.
    Do as I say, not as I do.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Old Witch View Post
    UGLs carry superdrol and M1T. only a matter of time before they carry MSten and some others as well. They’re strong enough to warrant it.

    And then you’ll really see crazy doses. 50mg MSten in one tablet. Stuff like that.
    lot of UGLs carry DMZ powder and have for a while now
    Non-affiliated

  14. Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    lot of UGLs carry DMZ powder and have for a while now
    If weíre talking raws, a lot of UGLs have carried ALL of the ďlegalĒ steroids for quite awhile now. 1-andro and 4-andro included.
    Do as I say, not as I do.

  15. I think eventually we will somehow gain ground here, judging by what happened over 1 andro and hi tech. We will end up with some legitimately legal steroids of some kind that do work and arenít crazy bad for you.
    Do as I say, not as I do.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    Wesley, we've been through this so many times.

    Methylstenbolone, dmz, and M1A ARE scheduled drugs as a result of DASCA which was passed in 2014.
    Agreed but the indictment says 2012. I totally agree with you on the PH ban that it "could" infer them. Talking to Rick Collins though, he also said that these compounds were not "prohormones" and that they are not "controlled substances" before this ban. Mind you, we know they were steroids in themselves. They are not "prohormones. But the Feds failed to list them on the Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 1990.
    https://www.congress.gov/bill/101st-...ouse-bill/4658

    Now this clearly was an error, but they are not specifically named. And that bill does not "infer". The 2014 bill "infers". So if the investigation started in 2012 and it was under the pretense of investigating a "controlled substance", but only those compounds were not controlled substances. We now have what you call "fruit of the poisonous tree". Mind you, I am no attorney or expert but I do have a degree in Pre-Law and I specifically recall this process. If that investigation started on false pretenses, then EVERYTHING they find after the fact is exempt from prosecution. Regardless of evidence found.

    This was my entire point in this. They can call out the 2014 PH ban til they are red in the face and that won't fly. "Probable cause" (which is required to begin an investigation) was based on the 2012 activity (as the starting point). A good attorney very well might get this entire case dismissed. Even the Sarms can be dismissed under the fruit of the poisonous tree, because even though there is significant evidence (DSHEA) etc, regarding these being new, MSTEN< DMZ, and Alpha-1 are not new compounds. They are grandfathered in. Trest too. It was used as a contraceptive. The law did not exist when this investigation began.

    They are backtracking.

    Another evidence. I work for IML, aka Robert Dmaggio. We stopped carrying Osta RX like 4 years ago. The FDA sent them a "cease and desist" just last year. Telling them to stop selling it. They had years prior. They are trying to stage this. Trust me on it. A warning letter would show the Court, they were warned, but yet continued. And it's simply not true. I work for IML. We no longer were selling it, nor in Super DMZ 4.0 for years prior to that letter. The warning letter was a setup. But it will not fly in Court. Watch.
    [CENTER]"WES15" for 15% off at bStraight up Kratom / MA Research[/B]"WES20" for 20% off at MA Supps/ DarksideLabz

  17. Guess we will see what happens

  18. If supplements are supposed to be plant or food derived and such, and/or supplement the nutritional intake, how is desiccated thyroid a legal supplement? Orchic substance? These are not foodstuffs. You could make an extract of orchic thatís full of testosterone as a cream and sell it as a supplement, with the way the law is carried out.

    It seems theyíre only targeting bodybuilding and fitness supplements. Of course we know thatís always been the case.
    Do as I say, not as I do.

  19. I agree to that
  20. Blackstone Labs - PJ Braun - Aaron Singerman - Robert DiMaggio Indicted


    If orchic substance supplements nutritional intake then testosterone itself ought to be considered just as natural and supplemental. Logically.

    At very least 4-dhea should be considered legitimate. 7keto acetate is and by the very merit of that so should 4 andro and all of its esters, ethers. Itís the metabolite between dhea (5Dhea) and both 4ADs.
    Do as I say, not as I do.

  21. So they finally go after these guys but they destroyed primordial performance years ago.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by semtex View Post
    So they finally go after these guys but they destroyed primordial performance years ago.
    And Primordial Performance and Eric P walked away unscathed. They beat it. After 7 years and tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees. And Govt seized close to a million dollars in his products, which expired and he lost it all. And they didn't pay it back even though he was found innocent.

    Because again. They violated the law in attempting to prosecute him.

    And again, Epi andro was NOT named even now, and not until 2014 did we see the PH ban. That "infers" but it can't "infer" a DHEA derivative bc at the end of the day, it is proven to be derived from DHEA.. And so you cannot prosecute someone for a crime, when that "crime" doesn't exist "yet".


    What should scare everyone is that this Govt can literally raid your house or company, seize your products, destroy your property and income ability and YOU have to prove your innocence.

    Not the other way around.

    Eric P is a perfect perfect example.

    And this case is too. Watch and remember my words. The FEDS have a 98% conviction rate, and that is primarily because they get everyone to plea bargain. To fight them can cost hundreds of thousands or millions, even if you are innocent. Like Eric P was.

    Many of these guys have money. Alot of it. If they decide to fight it, you are going to see alot of these guys walk. The rest will take Plea Bargains or try and snitch out other people to get out of it.

    I can't speak for the others but Dmaggio, him and I are friends for years. He will fight this. And he won't sell out.

    Look we all know what this is. We know this was a manipulation of the law. But the law is the law. Technicalities exist for a reason. The Gov't plays the game more then anyone...
    [CENTER]"WES15" for 15% off at bStraight up Kratom / MA Research[/B]"WES20" for 20% off at MA Supps/ DarksideLabz

  23. The trick is finding the hole in the governmentís game and making a big deal of that in court. Seems to work every time. And Uncle Sam tends to leave lots of holes. A good bluff can always be called. Itís just the poor schmucks who donít know the way it works who end up really getting towed under. And I think had we known before what we know now about how this all goes down, we might have had some victories keeping the original now banned PHs legal. Or even steroids back in the 80s. And 90s...

    Maybe we ought to elect more bodybuilders and former pro wrestlers/football players.
    Do as I say, not as I do.

  24. Then they still might want.the stuff for them self's
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