Myostatin Question for PA, anybody else with knowledge
- 08-03-2007, 12:49 AM
- 08-03-2007, 12:58 AM
This is a thread I started a while back,Covers everything/anything you could possibly wonder about the ACVR2B,and MY0-029 Polyclonal antibodies(people refering as peptides,but are not)To my knowledge all those oral ,wanna be rip offs are no different than those bs rip off "dionobol,and winny-v ,thos supps you all know are bs...Just cruise this thread....you'll be fully versed upon reading it all....The Biggest problem is the "peptide" at this point in time is $2,000/mg...which doesn't even begine to come close to what a human would need to fully repress myostating production to allow for serious muscle gains as showed in deactivated genetic animals/studies...Just read the thread,you'll see:
However if any could make a true oral,it would be Patrick...I'll gladly move up north to your lab and you can lock me in a Monkey cage and do a 24/7 study on me Patrick....just let me know about that..You could just feed me 11oxo and the clear'....
08-03-2007, 12:59 AM
Alright im a bit over my head here but id like to throw some questions/statements out there for kwyk, speed, or PA. i think it would be a good idea to have all of these questions answered in one thread. If we can answer all of these we can probably make a new thread likely to be stickied. the first of the BB boards?
1. myo-029- what is this drugs dosage, action, and clinical backround (track record/mentionable studies/etc)
2. acvr2b- what is this drugs dosage, action, and clinical backround?
Action-The new agent is a version of a cellular docking point for the muscle-limiting protein myostatin.
3. Polyclonal and monocloonal antibodies, what is their dosage, action, and clinical background?
Action- Antibodies are molecules that, in general, tag, neutralize, and even destroy stuff.
4. What is the role of activin in myostatin function?
5. Has anyone run any of these compounds? injection? oral? what dosage? what was your experience?
this thread has made it apparent that these drugs are becoming more available and diverse. i think its about time more people started learning more about them.
things i have so far ill just try and edit in
08-03-2007, 01:01 AM
08-03-2007, 01:01 AM
The polyclonal antibodies probably are peptides. All a peptide is is a small chain of amino acids, and considering most cellular interaction is protein / peptide based, the term was probably correctly used.
But, other than that you're totally right. At this point in time it seems like there isn't anything us "health enthusiasts" (cough, cough) can will be getting from any of these ripoff products.
08-03-2007, 01:05 AM
There are tons of different polyclonal and monoclonal antibodies with a huge array of different functions.
Antibodies are molecules that, in general, tag, neutralize, and even destroy stuff.
08-03-2007, 01:08 AM
kwyk, i recall reading that the polyclonal targeted multiple section of the myostatin molecule, as opposed to a monoclonal targeting only one section/area.
are you sure of your above definition?
08-03-2007, 01:16 AM
I'm not a Biochem guy,but I'm pretty positive a Antibody and a Peptide are nowhere near being the same thing,not even close...I'm sure Patrick could 'bump on this topic...
08-03-2007, 01:55 AM
all of these questions should really be answered before anyone starts testing out these types of products
08-04-2007, 02:04 AM
Proteins / peptides are used for all kinds of things, and antibodies just happen to be proteins and peptides (essentially the same thing anyway).
Antibodies are immune system-related proteins called immunoglobulins.
08-27-2007, 10:03 PM
08-27-2007, 10:04 PM
08-28-2007, 06:12 AM
no he said that his company has been having alot of mechanical problems that have cause a series of setback but according to him the products will be out this week . this is starting to sound crazy but if its not delivered this week or atleast mailed out i will call it like i see it bullsh#t.
08-31-2007, 07:17 PM
Thought this might be interesting....
PLoS ONE. 2007 Aug 29;2(8):e789.
Quadrupling Muscle Mass in Mice by Targeting TGF-ss Signaling Pathways.
Department of Molecular Biology and Genetics, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Baltimore, Maryland, United States of America.
Myostatin is a transforming growth factor-ss family member that normally acts to limit skeletal muscle growth. Mice genetically engineered to lack myostatin activity have about twice the amount of muscle mass throughout the body, and similar effects are seen in cattle, sheep, dogs, and a human with naturally occurring loss-of-function mutations in the myostatin gene. Hence, there is considerable interest in developing agents capable of inhibiting myostatin activity for both agricultural and human therapeutic applications. We previously showed that the myostatin binding protein, follistatin, can induce dramatic increases in muscle mass when overexpressed as a transgene in mice. In order to determine whether this effect of follistatin results solely from inhibition of myostatin activity, I analyzed the effect of this transgene in myostatin-null mice. Mstn(-/-) mice carrying a follistatin transgene had about four times the muscle mass of wild type mice, demonstrating the existence of other regulators of muscle mass with similar activity to myostatin. The greatest effect on muscle mass was observed in offspring of mothers homozygous for the Mstn mutation, raising the possibility that either myostatin itself or a downstream regulator may normally be transferred from the maternal to fetal circulations. These findings demonstrate that the capacity for increasing muscle growth by manipulating TGF-ss signaling pathways is much more extensive than previously appreciated and suggest that muscle mass may be controlled at least in part by a systemic mode of action of myostatin.
PMID: 17726519 [PubMed - in process]
09-06-2007, 05:42 PM
The superhumanradio show on folstaxin and the other show on raw foods with vonderplanets actually got me started on eating raw eggs and trying to source fertile raw eggs and raw cow and goat milk. Belive it or not, it is illegal in the state of Virginia for a farmer to sell raw milk. You have to buy a ****ing Cow share to get raw milk and there aren't any currently available statewide. That's a ****ing conspiracy if I ever heard of one.
How much follstatin is in a single fertile raw egg on average? Is bioavailability an issue when consumed raw and orally. I would consider injecting a fertile raw egg yolk, but then the salmonella naysayers would hunt me down and keel me. But seriously, does anyone know how much/many fertile raw eggs you would need to consume to match the follstatin levels used in the study?
Fortunately I've found a ug lab that will source raw fertile eggs. Though I still don't feel comfortable leaving large wads of money under a chicken's ass.
Last edited by nphocus; 09-06-2007 at 05:43 PM. Reason: sp
09-07-2007, 09:25 AM
Still just selling "delivery positions." If you buy this stuff I believe the position is bent over with your pants down. Three guesses as to what the delivery is going to be.
09-07-2007, 03:37 PM
09-07-2007, 03:41 PM
09-07-2007, 05:38 PM
09-12-2007, 10:51 PM
09-13-2007, 12:28 AM
Peptide and protein can be pretty laxly thrown around. But, usually large, multichain peptides are called proteins.
09-13-2007, 03:36 PM
Celldyne Biopharma LLC has their official site here:
here they state their intentions as far as their development pipeline, for instance, they state:
Celldyne is presently pursuing additional corporate partnerships, federal grants, and seed investments to develop its first pipeline candidate, Celstaxan® (Myostatimab), a monoclonal antibody for the treatment of cachexia (wasting).
Celldyne intends to develop Celstaxan® (Myostatimab) initially for phase IV pancreatic cancer. This indication will increase the speed to market (via fast track designation and patient lobbies). Pancreatic cancer is one of the most catabolic and destructive cancers. Approximately, 22,000 people develop the disease each year.
The Revenue potential for Celstaxan® (Myostatimab) estimated to be over $100 million by the product’s third year on the US market. The development cost to bring Celstaxan® (Myostatimab) market is estimated to be less than $10 million.
They state their address as
1200 Network Blvd,
San Antonion TX
I did a flyover and zoom-in using Google Earth and they are definitely located in an office park area, not a residential street.
But then there's the other site bearing their logo which is selling the the foltaxan product.
so is this their "over-the-counter" division so to speak?
09-14-2007, 01:09 PM
Hmm...still smells fishy to me.
If anyone who cares wants to get an inkling of whether or not these folks are total phonies, I'd suggest doing a pubmed search under a couple of their Ph.D's names.
If they're PhD's in the bio industry, they should have at least something published that pubmed could dig up.
09-20-2007, 11:23 AM
09-20-2007, 01:29 PM
this stuff you guys are looking at is almost a guaranteed scam.
current myostatin gene therapy for athletic enhancement is likely to not have any widespread use yet, outside of maybe large government funded and run programs like China.
one reason is because the delivery to the appropriate areas and safety of the delivery method (modified viruses) is extremely questionable.
however, this (article below) just might be the future medical breakthrough needed for use to become more widespread. and once the methods for making these polymer/antibody/gene complexes is refined it will be relatively cheap and easy to set up good gene doping programs. watch for this to become part of modern day athletics within 10 years.
Gene Therapy without Viruses
A new, highly effective polymer may make gene therapy safer.
The promise of gene therapy has long been held up by the lack of a safe and effective way to insert the desired therapeutic genes into the right cells. To solve that problem, MIT researchers have developed a new polymer for gene therapy that is as effective as viruses, the standard carriers, but it seems to have none of the risks of viral treatments. The researchers have successfully tested a version of the polymer in mice with ovarian cancer, and they believe they can further modify the polymer to target virtually any cell in the body.
Gene therapy works by delivering to a specific group of diseased cells copies of a gene that corrects what ails them. "If you could get it [a gene] where it's needed, you could treat many diseases," says the MIT Center for Cancer Research's Daniel Anderson, one of the leaders of the polymer research group.
The most effective way to get therapeutic genes to the right cells in the body has been by inserting them into viruses, which are then injected into patients. But a series of high-profile setbacks has raised questions about the safety of using viral vectors. Injections of these viruses have caused dangerous, and in several cases deadly, immune reactions in some patients. (See "The Glimmering Promise of Gene Therapy.") And one class of viruses used for gene therapy can cause leukemia. There are currently many viral gene therapies in clinical trials, but none have been approved by the Food and Drug Administration.
These problems in clinical trials using viruses have spurred researchers to search for synthetic alternatives for delivering gene therapy. "Polymers have been shown safe in people for years," says Robert Langer, a professor of chemical engineering at MIT and a pioneer in biomaterials research. The polymers under development by the MIT group are relatively inexpensive to manufacture and break down into harmless byproducts in the body. The kind of polymer used as a starting material by the MIT researchers naturally associates with DNA and can succeed in delivering genes into cells.
"They have something comparable [in effectiveness] to viruses," says David Putnam, assistant professor of chemical and biomolecular engineering at Cornell University. "No one has been able to achieve this."
The MIT researchers succeeded because they have developed rapid systems for developing and testing large numbers of polymers, says Putnam. "A lot of materials development is a numbers game," he explains, and the MIT group can design and test new polymers "an order of magnitude faster than everybody else."
The MIT researchers have previously used an unmodified version of the polymer to selectively deliver a suicide gene to prostate tumors in mice. For their current research, published last week in Advanced Materials, they experimented with making small chemical changes to the ends of the polymers.
The modified polymer is an even more effective carrier. "We were able to give high levels of gene delivery even to hard-to-target cells," Anderson says. And the polymers deliver genes faster than viruses do.
Preliminary testing of the polymers in mice showed that they efficiently delivered a test gene coding for a fluorescent protein to ovarian tumors. "So far, everything we've done looks really safe," says Langer. The researchers are continuing to test the animals' immune responses to the polymer to ensure that it is safe. They are also testing in mice its safety and efficacy in delivering a therapeutic gene, one designed to kill cancer cells.
The ability to deliver genes only to specific cells and tissues is critical, says Anderson, especially when the gene is intended to kill the cells it enters, as with gene therapy for cancer. Langer and Anderson are confident that the polymer-gene complexes can be coupled with molecules such as antibodies to target specific types of cells in the body.
The MIT researchers have started by targeting cancer, but Langer says that in theory, there's "no limit" to what gene therapy can tackle. "I'm very excited," he says. If further animal tests continue to demonstrate the polymers' safety, Langer hopes to translate the work into gene therapies for patients.
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