You asked for it. Now its here. Oral Sustain Alpha Liqua-Vade!

[jdrannin1]

yeah some Justin geek told me to take Tartrate on cycle.....what does he know

That dude's an ass

Have there been any reports of upset stomach?

EDIT: Are the results from the Tests (hCG claims) in yet? I've read several articles that claim 7,8 benzoflavone to be carcinogenic in humans. Clearly, I have more research to do now.

I've not experienced any upset stomach and I've used it for around a month and I haven't had a problem. I remember I used 6 oxo extreme and it used to just kill me. I was scared to leave the house lol. I don't think anyone will have a problem to be honest; there's no emodin in our resveratrol.

 

[Iron Lungz]

Good deal - thanks for answering my questions.
What sort of testing will you be doing for the oral-SA? I am going to be strating it in the next few weeks.

No upset stomach reports... plus our Resveratrol is emodin free... which is a compound that generally causes gastrointestinal upset with cheaper extracts of resveratrol.


hCG claims -

"We still aren't confident that on cycle Sustain will prevent shutdown enough to cause desensitization during a longer cycle. If you plan on going longer than 6 weeks then its best to use hCG to be safe.

The Sustain is certainly doing something positive since its increasing "load size" and general libido... but our blood tests on LH & FSH from on cycle tester are all over the place.. are are not consistent enough to show that Sustain Alpha has strong enough effect on LH & FSH to prevent suppression.

But now with Oral SA we will have to do more testing."

-Eric

 

[strategicmove]

Always enjoyed Sustain Alpha, without exception. I certainly like the idea of oral Sustain Alpha, though. Clearly more convenient for me, in terms of dosing/application, apart from the potential to be more potent than the transdermal version. Looking forward to this.

 

[riskarb]

That's a good idea mate!



It's not cheap to produce SA. You're forgetting the delivery system we use to enhance resveratrol's absorption and the 7,8 benzaflavone component. BTW it's $40 right now with our discount code NEWSUSTAIN

How exactly does it increase absorption? Resveratrol is rapidly absorbed orally, but quickly conjugated. Would you mind elaborating on your "enhanced absorption" bullsh*t? You need a ton of resv to overwhelm the cascade, or do a buccal delivery. Tween, HPMC and PEG have been used effectively, but your product is pure-hype, to put it kindly.

It's benzOflavone, and it's cheap. $40 for this is a bad-joke.

 

[srocco112]

do you need to cycle off of this (other than the 5 on 2 off) for a few weeks or is this something that can be run for long periods at a time

 

[WIULifter]

do you need to cycle off of this (other than the 5 on 2 off) for a few weeks or is this something that can be run for long periods at a time

ran like that, its really up to you when you want to stop taking it.

 

[Eric Potratz]

How exactly does it increase absorption? Resveratrol is rapidly absorbed orally, but quickly conjugated. Would you mind elaborating on your "enhanced absorption" bullsh*t? You need a ton of resv to overwhelm the cascade, or do a buccal delivery. Tween, HPMC and PEG have been used effectively, but your product is pure-hype, to put it kindly.

It's benzOflavone, and it's cheap. $40 for this is a bad-joke.

The Liqua-Vade is actually utilizing buccal and sublingual delivery since its being consumed as pre-emuslified formula.

You are right about the tween, HPMC and PEG... we actually utilize variants of those compounds in our Liqua-Vade formula to enhance delivery, and Ive explained the mechanism in this thread here -
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/137728-future-nutrient-delivery.html

And more indepth in this interview here


BTW, the study that examined oral resveratrol absorption in humans (Walle et al, 2004) disolved the oral dose of resveratrol into ethanol, DMSO and glucose water. Its not exactly fair to say that the same absorption would be achieved with a compressed tablet or capsule of resveratrol. (remember, nutrients need to be molecularly dispersed to absorb through epithelial membranes)

Plus, 7,8-benzoflavone (being more lipophilic than resveratrol) is going to have a harder time dissolving and absorbing through the GI. Liqua-Vade probably shows the most benefit with this ingredient compared to a capsule or tablet.

-Eric

 

[Eric Potratz]

Good deal - thanks for answering my questions.
What sort of testing will you be doing for the oral-SA? I am going to be strating it in the next few weeks.

Did you test the topical SA with blood tests?

-Eric

 

[riskarb]

The Liqua-Vade is actually utilizing buccal and sublingual delivery since its being consumed as pre-emuslified formula.

You are right about the tween, HPMC and PEG... we actually utilize variants of those compounds in our Liqua-Vade formula to enhance delivery, and Ive explained the mechanism in this thread here -
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/137728-future-nutrient-delivery.html

And more indepth in this interview here

And you can see how the delivery system works based off the visual schematic here

BTW, the study that examined oral resveratrol absorption in humans (Walle et al, 2004) disolved the oral dose of resveratrol into ethanol, DMSO and glucose water. Its not exactly fair to say that the same absorption would be achieved with a compressed tablet or capsule of resveratrol. (remember, nutrients need to be molecularly dispersed to absorb through epithelial membranes)

Plus, 7,8-benzoflavone (being more lipophilic than resveratrol) is going to have a harder time dissolving and absorbing through the GI. Liqua-Vade probably shows the most benefit with this ingredient compared to a capsule or tablet.

-Eric

OK Eric, but I don't understand the advantage of this product over a simple buccal formulation involving some micronized resveratrol and some tween, HPMC or PEG. There is a reliable source of micronized 98% resveratrol out there charging $3.00/gram. Miralax is dirt cheap. 100mg is subtherapeutic for an oral dose. Your resveratrol isn't micronized, and there is nothing in the links you provide that shows superiorty of this "liqua-vade" to any of the conventional means of increasing AUC on an oral-dose.

You're competing with quality micronized product at ~$3.30 per gram (micronized resv + carrier). Feel free to charge what the market will bear, but elasticity of demand aside, this product is extremely overpriced. You cannot compete with a micronized product on bioavailability.

 

[TexasTitan]

Interesting debate but what about the 7,8 benzoflavone? Seems like you're forgetting that to focus on resveratrol.

 

[Eric Potratz]

OK Eric, but I don't understand the advantage of this product over a simple buccal formulation involving some micronized resveratrol and some tween, HPMC or PEG. There is a reliable source of micronized 98% resveratrol out there charging $3.00/gram. Miralax is dirt cheap. 100mg is subtherapeutic for an oral dose. Your resveratrol isn't micronized, and there is nothing in the links you provide that shows superiorty of this "liqua-vade" to any of the conventional means of increasing AUC on an oral-dose.

You're competing with quality micronized product at ~$3.30 per gram (micronized resv + carrier). Feel free to charge what the market will bear, but elasticity of demand aside, this product is extremely overpriced. You cannot compete with a micronized product on bioavailability.

There is no advantage to micronization when resveratrol is dissolved in solution like it is in our Liqua-Vade. Liqua-Vade is technically a micro-dispersion, which is better than micronized powder and doesn't carry the same wetting problems.

You cant make Liqua-Vade with just Tween, HPMC and PEG. You might get better absorption than a tablet with a concoction like this, but it will taste like complete ass, and it wont be optimized.

Remember, the buccal cavity can only absorb so much powder. Liqua-Vade is absorbing through the buccal, eso****us and GI walls very efficiently.

-Eric

 

[riskarb]

There is no advantage to micronization when resveratrol is dissolved in solution like it is in our Liqua-Vade. Liqua-Vade is technically a micro-dispersion, which is better than micronized powder and doesn't carry the same wetting problems.

You cant make Liqua-Vade with just Tween, HPMC and PEG. You might get better absorption than a tablet with a concoction like this, but it will taste like complete ass, and it wont be optimized.

Remember, the buccal cavity can only absorb so much powder. Liqua-Vade is absorbing through the buccal, eso****us and GI walls very efficiently.

-Eric

Obviously buccal-delivery is limited, but you're swallowing the remainder. Your comments regarding micronized resveratrol are 100% false; re: Sirtis data, et al. Please stop with the buzz-words w/o a shred of data. "Optimized" is meaningless here.

Your product is at a disadvantage to micronized (and 3x the cost) in buccal-delivery, and limited MOA to avoid conjugation on the first-pass. You have no data to show that this stuff is better than HPMC, Tween and/or PEG; and you're using a small amount of HPMC in the mix. Why didn't Sirtis use it if it's so fantastic? You're telling me that a $2B pharma doesn't have access to a product utilized by a couple of guys working out of their home office?

300mg of micronized resveratrol + HPMC or miralax and you've got a better product at the same price.

 

[riskarb]

Interesting debate but what about the 7,8 benzoflavone? Seems like you're forgetting that to focus on resveratrol.

The resveratrol is the value in the mix. You certainly cannot make a case for 70% of the value coming from the 7,8 Benzoflavone. OK, granted. They throw in a dubious AI and triple the price. Got it.

Done here, I've had my say. Hey, if people want to flush $50 on this or a $30 bottle of green tea extract, more power to them. Who doesn't want enhanced blood-flow to the penis for harder erections!

It's a free country.

 

[TexasTitan]

Obviously buccal-delivery is limited, but you're swallowing the remainder. Your comments regarding micronized resveratrol are 100% false; re: Sirtis data, et al. Please stop with the buzz-words w/o a shred of data. "Optimized" is meaningless here.

Your product is at a disadvantage to micronized (and 3x the cost) in buccal-delivery, and limited MOA to avoid conjugation on the first-pass. You have no data to show that this stuff is better than HPMC, Tween and/or PEG; and you're using a small amount of HPMC in the mix. Why didn't Sirtis use it if it's so fantastic? You're telling me that a $2B pharma doesn't have access to a product utilized by a couple of guys working out of their home office?

300mg of micronized resveratrol + HPMC or miralax and you've got a better product at the same price.

The resveratrol is the value in the mix. You certainly cannot make a case for 70% of the value coming from the 7,8 Benzoflavone. OK, granted. They throw in a dubious AI and triple the price. Got it.

Done here, I've had my say. Hey, if people want to flush $50 on this or a $30 bottle of green tea extract, more power to them. Who doesn't want enhanced blood-flow to the penis for harder erections!

It's a free country.

Dont run off. This is interesting. You do sound PMSish though.

Follow up. Did you go out and buy a coke machine and syrups to make your own soda because 3-4 dollars for a 12 pack is a ripoff too?

 

[riskarb]

Dont run off. This is interesting. You do sound PMSish though.

Follow up. Did you go out and buy a coke machine and syrups to make your own soda because 3-4 dollars for a 12 pack is a ripoff too?

Are you wearing a headband, Mr Simmons?

No, I go buy a coke from Safeway for $0.60 and save the $1.20. Actually, I am made of money and it's still a retarded markup.

 

[TexasTitan]

Dude, its fine to disagree but you're just a whiny bitch about this. Being made of money doesn't give you status or class.

 

[flightposite]

primordial performance is a highly reputable company i trust this to be a great product. shouldnt knock it before you try it.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

Dude, its fine to disagree but you're just a whiny bitch about this. Being made of money doesn't give you status or class.

People that talk about having money, usually dont have it.........

Same goes for people who "look" like they have money....Usually they are ass-deep in debt.........

just sayin

 

[GMG760]

Is it easier or harder to build muscle when you are made of money? How swoll does money get compared to muscles?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[riskarb]

Dude, its fine to disagree but you're just a whiny bitch about this. Being made of money doesn't give you status or class.

I'll admit that it's probably a decent product and w/o a doubt will be more palatable than my micronized + HPMC + Miralax combo. I think PP should contact revgenetics.com and source some micronized powder. Micronized produces a much greater AUC for buccal-delivery. As an end-user I buy from revgenetics, but I have no affiliation with the company. PP could charge $50 and still clear a >50% margin. It's a substantial value-add to offer a product which is palatable.

I'll stop bitching, and perhaps you can buy some men's clothes.

 

[Erebus]

Interesting debate but what about the 7,8 benzoflavone? Seems like you're forgetting that to focus on resveratrol.

Seems like in the midst of your estrogen crisis you're simply having a hard time comprehending what you're reading.

Riskarb said earlier benzoflavone is cheap. Must've skipped over that in your mad rush to defend PP.

It's cool, run on back and take another look at what he said. I'll wait. Don't forget to pick up your clown nose.

 

[TexasTitan]

I'll admit that it's probably a decent product and w/o a doubt will be more palatable than my micronized + HPMC + Miralax combo. I think PP should contact revgenetics.com and source some micronized powder. Micronized produces a much greater AUC for buccal-delivery. As an end-user I buy from revgenetics, but I have no affiliation with the company. PP could charge $50 and still clear a >50% margin. It's a substantial value-add to offer a product which is palatable.

I'll stop bitching, and perhaps you can buy some men's clothes.

I wasnt doubting the validity, just thinking it could have been said with a little less distain.

Not sure what you mean by mens clothes...if you are looking at my avatar, you clearly missed the youtube video "My New Haircut,"

Seems like in the midst of your estrogen crisis you're simply having a hard time comprehending what you're reading.

Riskarb said earlier benzoflavone is cheap. Must've skipped over that in your mad rush to defend PP.

It's cool, run on back and take another look at what he said. I'll wait. Don't forget to pick up your clown nose.

Alright you sniveling little ****, I was reading it on my phone when I was bored in class. Im just so god damn sorry I couldnt please your bitch ass. Shut the **** up and get the **** out.

 

[Erebus]

I wasnt doubting the validity, just thinking it could have been said with a little less distain.

Not sure what you mean by mens clothes...if you are looking at my avatar, you clearly missed the youtube video "My New Haircut,"



Alright you sniveling little ****, I was reading it on my phone when I was bored in class. Im just so god damn sorry I couldnt please your bitch ass. Shut the **** up and get the **** out.

Hey...you're the one who talked **** without knowing the facts. I don't blame you for being embarrassed and lashing out.

 

[riskarb]

I wasnt doubting the validity, just thinking it could have been said with a little less distain.

Not sure what you mean by mens clothes...if you are looking at my avatar, you clearly missed the youtube video "My New Haircut,"

Yeah, I caught that clip. I thought the brook was your own.

 

[TexasTitan]

Hey...you're the one who talked **** without knowing the facts. I don't blame you for being embarrassed and lashing out.

This isnt a congressional hearing, I just skipped over something on my phone. If you werent such a sniveling ****head, you could just plug up your leavy vagina, get over it, and get the **** out.

Yeah, I caught that clip. I thought the brook was your own.

God no. If there is such a gap between profit and cost, you should think about filling it if its that easy. Not being a smartass. And I have no idea where youd source 7,8 Benzo.

 

[Erebus]

This isnt a congressional hearing, I just skipped over something on my phone. If you werent such a sniveling ****head, you could just plug up your leavy vagina, get over it, and get the **** out.



God no.

Right, but given the strength of your position and your specific statement, it made you look like a tool. But you already knew that I'm sure.

 

[riskarb]

I wouldn't consider undertaking a biz opportunity with such a small potential market, and it's outside of my line of work as a CDS/variance-swap dealer. One of my points is that PP is missing an opportunity in pricing it outside the EOD.

 

[Eric Potratz]

Obviously buccal-delivery is limited, but you're swallowing the remainder. Your comments regarding micronized resveratrol are 100% false; re: Sirtis data, et al. Please stop with the buzz-words w/o a shred of data. "Optimized" is meaningless here.

You are incorrect and misinformed about what micronization does for absorption. Your saying that micronized sugar dissolved in water is going to absorb better than granulated sugar dissolved in water. Once its dissolved it doesn't make a difference! Our Liqua-Vade is a solution of reveratrol in a readily emulsification form... whether it began compounding as a micronized or non-micronized form of powder doesn't mater.

You have no data to show that this stuff is better than HPMC, Tween and/or PEG; and you're using a small amount of HPMC in the mix.

HPMC/TWEEN?/PEG? Any idea what kind of TWEEN or PEG you would use? Or what kind of concentration?? And how much HPMC would you use? Either way it wouldnt matter since this combination would form a very crude clumpy emulsion and would be considered a very poor SEDDS. (if even at all)

Also, if you have uncertainty about a low concentration of HPMC inhibiting precipitation and crystallization of active compounds, I suggest you read this study -

Development of supersaturatable self-emulsifying drug delivery system formulations for improving the oral absorption of poorly soluble drugs.
Gao P, et al.
Expert Opin Drug Deliv. 2006 Jan;3(1):97-110

FYI, 0.25mg/ml was sufficient to maintain a supersaturated state in a SEDDS.

You're telling me that a $2B pharma doesn't have access to a product utilized by a couple of guys working out of their home office?

Funny that you mention pharm companies... Did you know that SEDDS (Liqua-Vade) is a pharmaceutical technology thats being researched and implemented with hundreds of new drugs each year?

Home office? Nope.. thats actually me in the avatar pulling out a batch of red chinese ginseng from our edenlabs coldfinger extractor in our 5k sq ft production facility.. nothing too special... but not a home office by any means.

300mg of micronized resveratrol + HPMC or miralax and you've got a better product at the same price.

This in an interesting statement, but also incorrect. PEG 3350 doesnt form a SEDDS, even with HPMC. Are you just throwing dirt at me to get information about SEDDS since you dont understand the technology? Ill be glad to explain the science if thats the case...

-Eric

 

[combat_action]

Wow Eric, very well thought out responses and presented without the attacks sprinkled in. Speaks volumes about your character AND your company. Open minds disagree, closed minds disregard. All too often on these forums people attack products without knowing enough about them LOL.

I already got my Sustain earlier today. Other than a slight aftertaste of soap lol, I absolutely prefer this than the topical. Three seconds and I'm good to go. Topical takes too long to dry as I'm always in a rush out the door.

Oh, and thanks again for the XXL t-shirt w/ my order. Fits good!

 

[riskarb]

You are incorrect and misinformed about what micronization does for absorption. Your saying that micronized sugar dissolved in water is going to absorb better than granulated sugar dissolved in water. Once its dissolved it doesn't make a difference! Our Liqua-Vade is a solution of reveratrol in a readily emulsification form... whether it began compounding as a micronized or non-micronized form of powder doesn't mater.



HPMC/TWEEN?/PEG? Any idea what kind of TWEEN or PEG you would use? Or what kind of concentration?? And how much HPMC would you use? Either way it wouldnt matter since this combination would form a very crude clumpy emulsion and would be considered a very poor SEDDS. (if even at all)

Also, if you have uncertainty about a low concentration of HPMC inhibiting precipitation and crystallization of active compounds, I suggest you read this study -

Development of supersaturatable self-emulsifying drug delivery system formulations for improving the oral absorption of poorly soluble drugs.
Gao P, et al.
Expert Opin Drug Deliv. 2006 Jan;3(1):97-110

FYI, 0.25mg/ml was sufficient to maintain a supersaturated state in a SEDDS.



Funny that you mention pharm companies... Did you know that SEDDS (Liqua-Vade) is a pharmaceutical technology thats being researched and implemented with hundreds of new drugs each year?

Home office? Nope.. thats actually me in the avatar pulling out a batch of red chinese ginseng from our edenlabs coldfinger extractor in our 5k sq ft production facility.. nothing too special... but not a home office by any means.



This in an interesting statement, but also incorrect. PEG 3350 doesnt form a SEDDS, even with HPMC. Are you just throwing dirt at me to get information about SEDDS since you dont understand the technology? Ill be glad to explain the science if thats the case...

-Eric

I am not producing supplements, so I use PEG3350 (Miralax) and Polysorbate80. I've used F50 HPMC as well. PEG 8xxx or better would be advised.

Sirtis doesn't use a SEDDS, and achieved much higher plasma concentrations then the journal-data you provide. You have no empirical data that you haven't pulled from the web.

Buccal absorption with micronized resveratrol. Yeah, it makes a difference.

You market a topical resveratrol supplement when the data is universally in agreement that you cannot achieve a detectable, let alone a therapeutic plasma conc. with topical resveratrol. Yet you continue to market the bullsh*t.

 

[riskarb]

Sirtis uses micronized resveratrol in its SRT501 compound. Also, I am sure you've seen the Westphal data:

600mg/kg resveratrol
500mg/kg micronized resveratrol, no carrier
400mg/kg micronized resveratrol, DOSS+HPMC

A > 2x plasma conc. on micronized over standard particle size. A 4x increase in HPMC/DOSS.

 

[riskarb]

This in an interesting statement, but also incorrect. PEG 3350 doesnt form a SEDDS, even with HPMC. Are you just throwing dirt at me to get information about SEDDS since you dont understand the technology? Ill be glad to explain the science if thats the case...

-Eric

I do know that Sirtis/GSK use a micronized product. Their first true success was with micronized resveratrol and tween. The highest plasma conc were achieved by Sirtis with micronized resveratrol.

I'll concede that I probably know as much about SEDDS as you know about what is best-practice replication for a Nikkei 10k-strike exotic lookback call option (my line of work). I have no interest in being schooled on SEDDS. I am commenting on the use of micronized for buccal absorption. Regardless, the Westphal data (aforementioned graph) shows the superiority of micronized resveratrol over standard particle size. The goal is to avoid conjugation, and the AUC is better with micronized. We've witnessed the death of your argument made by your "granulated sugar" analogy.

 

[Eric Potratz]

I am not producing supplements, so I use PEG3350 (Miralax) and Polysorbate80. I've used F50 HPMC as well. PEG 8xxx or better would be advised.

Congrats for you. Im sure this produces a decently absorbed form of resveratrol... but its not Sustain Alpha, your not getting a dose of BZF, and its certainly isn't going to perform as well as our type IIIB supersaturatable SEDDS technology.

Sirtis doesn't use a SEDDS, and achieved much higher plasma concentrations then the journal-data you provide.

That was a single journal to provide support for a low concentration of HPMC, which you criticized for being too low. In case you where not aware its included to inhibit precipitation and crystallization of active compound (which would hurt delivery). It does not function as any kind of permeation enhancer. (like most of the compounds in Liqua-Vade do)

Buccal absorption with micronized resveratrol. Yeah, it makes a difference.

Again, this is incorrect. Once dissolved into solution it does not make a difference. This is chem 101.

600mg/kg resveratrol
500mg/kg micronized resveratrol, no carrier
400mg/kg micronized resveratrol, DOSS+HPMC

A > 2x plasma conc. on micronized over standard particle size. A 4x increase in HPMC/DOSS.

This doesn't help you argument. Of course the DOSS+HPMC is going to achieve higher absorption than the no carrier. The only reason they would be using micronized is for compounding purposes, not because it enhanced bio-availability (especially if they achieving full dissolution of the res, which is probably what the DOSS is for). The same exact high performance formula could be created with enough sheer mixing force of regular mesh res. Do you know that "micronized" just means the compound was sifted through a screen?

What was the relevance of this post anyway? Are you mixing dioctyl (2-ethylhexyl) sulfosuccinate and HPMC into a home resveratrol concoction or something? This may be fun for the imminst crowd but not everybody feels safe with home tinkering just to save a buck...

-Eric

 

[vpower]

I wouldn't consider undertaking a biz opportunity with such a small potential market, and it's outside of my line of work as a CDS/variance-swap dealer. One of my points is that PP is missing an opportunity in pricing it outside the EOD.

Hey guy! since your not doing anything but denigrating "The price" of this product then perhaps you should leave the thread. Your opinion is completely not valued. We get it..you dont like the pricing..your not going to buy it and your gonna stick with your home made stuff..ooookk..but seriously you got another thing coming if you think you can undermines Eric's knowledge of these products.

 

[fishboots]

Sustain is worth it IMO

 

[The Matrix]

Sustain is worth it IMO

For people that are on TRT would this be a good supplement to take just to get the benefits of the reservatrol in a good absorpable form. Could it also help to keep e2 down or in control when on TRT. Since we are shutdown already it should not really matter, but if get the perks of blowing peter norths side loads it be worth it just for that LOL

 

[Eric Potratz]

For people that are on TRT would this be a good supplement to take just to get the benefits of the reservatrol in a good absorpable form. Could it also help to keep e2 down or in control when on TRT. Since we are shutdown already it should not really matter, but if get the perks of blowing peter norths side loads it be worth it just for that LOL

We have alot of TRT guys that use it for this purpose. It provides a nice boost in virility.

It is a mild AI though, so if you need serious E2 control your better off going with something stronger. SA isnt going to keep estrogen in range if you're doing 500mg/week test.

-Eric

 

[sgcarpenter]

Will the oral be available soon in the TRS combo? Also, since the booting of 1-t tren (RIP), does PP have any plans for anything new along those lines?

 

[MAxximal]

is time

 

[Eric Potratz]

Will the oral be available soon in the TRS combo? Also, since the booting of 1-t tren (RIP), does PP have any plans for anything new along those lines?

No plans for any steroidial products, but we will be releasing the highly anticipated PreMax next week.

-Eric

 

[matthias7]

I was going to make this point. Resveratrol specialists/enthusiasts think that micronized loaded with tween is the way to go. It is extremely expensive however, not the tween bit but grinding it to incredibly small particles.

PP has had the charge against it that TD never got past the skin fat - something like that. This is a step to address that criticism.

Sirtis uses micronized resveratrol in its SRT501 compound. Also, I am sure you've seen the Westphal data:

The most experienced group with resV will be the Imminist forum which is dedicated to it. If PP has a delivary system that matches micronized tween-80 resV. they'll know. If so its a winner and would be cheap. If not need to do a careful cost benefit. Normally PP make their stuff the most cost effective on the market by a small margin, e.g. I did this with Endomax, Toco doesn't have any real competition.

The guy that will know is Knowbull: if he did a sponsored log whatever the outcome of that is would be really meaningful.

 

[matthias7]

I've not followed the thread the whole way through. The background is that the current thinking is resveratrol is best micronized and delivered in tween-80, at least that was the last time I followed it (about 4 months). Clearly PP hasn't micronized - it is a very expensive process. Eric here argues there is no need if the organic (chemistry) delivery system if its perfectly dissolved:

You are incorrect and misinformed about what micronization does for absorption. Your saying that micronized sugar dissolved in water is going to absorb better than granulated sugar dissolved in water. Once its dissolved it doesn't make a difference!

There is an easy answer to this but I'm needing PP's help to get some test samples sorted ... I'll skip this one.

HPMC/TWEEN?/PEG? Any idea what kind of TWEEN or PEG you would use? Or what kind of concentration??

Tween-80 is the current one. The anti-aging crowd gets spooked by anything that ain't pharmaceutical grade and hasn't got total FDA backing ..that sort of thing. It may not be the best delivary system but it is considered very safe.

Development of supersaturatable self-emulsifying drug delivery system formulations for improving the oral absorption of poorly soluble drugs.
Gao P, et al.Expert Opin Drug Deliv. 2006 Jan;3(1):97-110

Looks interesting for sure.

FYI, 0.25mg/ml was sufficient to maintain a supersaturated state in a SEDDS

Thanks

thats actually me in the avatar pulling out a batch of red chinese ginseng from our edenlabs coldfinger extractor in our 5k sq ft production facility.. nothing too special...

If its 6-year old I'm interested!! And I disagree it is special!

PP certainly have an interesting product, but as posted above it needs a heavy duty user into top-grade resveratrol to try it. At a guess it looks like by super-saturating then you avoid it dropping out of solution whilst it is adsorbing against the alimentary tract.

 

[Trauma1]

So who's tried our new SA thusfar?

 

[Kristofer68SS]

So who's tried our new SA thusfar?

i have, but not solo.............both oral and transdermal

i just finished using the TRS, Prime, low dose clomid(25mg MWF) and ldex(.25mg E4D) for my initial 4 week hardcore pct. I have 8 more weeks of otc pct lined out. Then bloodwork mid January.

My cycle was 16 weeks:yikes:, started using the transdermal SA(3 on 3 off) after 8weeks in.

I have dropped about 5-6(Gained about 25#'s,185-210 actually) pounds since pct started and some strength.....But what totally amazes me, i have lost no sexual performance or libido.

I cannot honestly pinpoint what is working and what isnt, but i know for certain.>>>>

TRS will continue to be a staple in any pct that i run.

I have 4 TRS units on hand. Not all for me, but when my bros come for pct, i hook them up. :cheers:

My 2 pennies.

 

[sgcarpenter]

what is premax?

 

[UKStrength]

what is premax?

This my friend:

PREMAX THREAD

Not Long Now!!

 

[lilsugaro6490]

Great product PrimPerf.

 

[CrownRoyal]

In about 2 weeks, I will be starting a natty test boosting/AI stack (haven't done so in awhile, in need of it).. The stack will consist of Mass FX/TD Formestane and HGHup.. How overkill would it be to throw liquid sustain alpha into the mix?! LOL

 

[D675]

Well this new delivery system seems to be working for me, morning glories are up...i also feel that this seems more potent from my general senses. Day 5 of running it in the TRS combination.

Also i highly recommend the worm in water method. Slides down you throat that way. The straight shot method is harsh...

 

[Eric Potratz]

In about 2 weeks, I will be starting a natty test boosting/AI stack (haven't done so in awhile, in need of it).. The stack will consist of Mass FX/TD Formestane and HGHup.. How overkill would it be to throw liquid sustain alpha into the mix?! LOL

No, I think that would be a fine stack.

-Eric