When did you make the jump from PHs/DS to more conventionable AAS

[DragonRider]

I've been looking everywhere but I can't find any proof that steroids cause stunted growth. I trust its been preached like religion but it doesn't make sense that they use steroids to treat kids that don't go through puberty allowing them to grow. They don't stay the same height, they grow even tho they are on steroids which should stunt it. Help me out here with some hard evidence. I like deciphering between broscience and real science.

This comes from the prescribing information for test cypionate.

http://www.drugs.com/pro/testosterone-cypionate.htmlAndrogen therapy should be used cautiously in healthy males with delayed puberty. The effect on bone maturation should be monitored by assessing bone age of the wrist and hand every 6 months. In children, androgen treatment may accelerate bone maturation without producing compensatory gain in linear growth. This adverse effect may result in compromised adult stature. The younger the child the greater the risk of compromising final mature height.


Generally speaking the steroids used for growth in children are steroids that do not aromatize and are weak anabolics (Anavar)

The medical community used to give high doses of estrogen to stunt tall girls growth. Estrogen fuses growth plates. Refine your search to estrogens effect on height and you will find plenty of information.

Look at steroids that aromatize heavily into estrogen.



If you are on TRT or otherwise buy prescribed testosterone, look at the insert that comes with your test with the prescribing information. It will probably be in the warnings section.

 

[jbryand101b]

as much as i value your knowledge jbryand, this is not entirely correct. supraphysiological doses even on long esters are achieved within days, sometimes hours.granted, steady peak values take several weeks, but effective levels of androgens are achieved much faster.

I'll have to look into that, you could be right.

 

[jbryand101b]

Yeah same stuff, thats why all the pros are getting jacked off running superdrol and epi gaining 15lbs at a time in 6 week spurts instead of running 1g of test and adding 100lbs to their bench. I just made the switch and ****ty designers dont even come close. I talked to alot of big guys at Europa show and other BB comps and they said they'd never touch those things. Kinda like pot and salvia. sure they both get you high. but salvia makes me puke and feel like **** while pot makes me feel happy and gives me an insane appetite. Designers give me so many sides for some weight gain and some strength gain then lose 50% of it, while a 16wk frontloaded test E cycle will add 100lbs to my bench and I feel wonderful and horny like crazy while keeping 80% at the end. Compare people on designers vs real gear... pretty clear cut imo

So what you are saying is you have no idea or data based evidence .

 

[jbryand101b]

I like deciphering between broscience and real science.

Uh, you just argued the difference between 15lbs gained from a oral aas and 15lb gained from injectable is because pro bb'rs told you so?I'm confused, where is the science?

 

[hungryH]

Sure. You started using steroids at 19 causing premature closure of your growth plates. The very reason that steroids are NOT recommended to males under 21.
Many males have their final growth spurt between 19 and 23 years old and will grow 3 to 5 inches during that time. You are the poster child of why these boards do not recommend steroids to somone under 21.
Now when some overly eager young man comes on the board biting at the bit to start steroids immediately because he can't wait to get heeyouoooooooge, we can point to a member of this board as an example of why it is so important to wait.
Thank you for your honesty and your example.

What a stupid thing to say, when ironically you are trying to sound intelligent. I was 5'8 at 15 years old. My mother is 5'3, and my father is 5'8 like me. Where the **** are you pulling 6'2 from?

I am a "poster child" for people who shouldnt use steroids before they're 21? lol stfu negged

 

[DBdude]

Uh, you just argued the difference between 15lbs gained from a oral aas and 15lb gained from injectable is because pro bb'rs told you so?I'm confused, where is the science?

sci·ence [sahy-uhns]: noun - systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.

A clear difference between "pro-hormones" aka "designer steroids" was observed when compared to AAS. Through experimentation with recorded documentation on diet, fitness routine and physical capabilities before, during and after experiment.

 

[DBdude]

Uh, you just argued the difference between 15lbs gained from a oral aas and 15lb gained from injectable is because pro bb'rs told you so?I'm confused, where is the science?

sci·ence [sahy-uhns]: noun - systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.


Experiment~ one subject volunteered to study the level of effectiveness of designer steroids and conventional AAS. Cycles to be tested: 6 week cycle of H-drol, 6 week cycle of Epi, and a 12 week cycle of testosterone ethanate. All of which are dosed at recommended amounts and run for the recommended length of time. Blood samples and vitals were taken before and after experimentation. All will follow the same post cycle therapy regiment.


Throughout experimentation, subject documented diet, fitness routine and physical capabilities before, during and after administration of the steroids. With review of the documentation, it was found that designer steroids caused immediate rapid gain in weight to a greater degree of that for AAS. Although it was noted AAS showed a marked advantage over designer steroids in greater strength, endurance, and mass gain further in experimentation. Perhaps the greatest finding was after the subject ended use of steroids. In the case of designer steroids the subject maintained 50% of the weight gained and a large degree of strength loss 2 months after cessation, while AAS maintained 80% of weight gained with greater retention of strength after 2 months of cessation. It has been determined through experimentation that despite designer steroid's rapid weight gain, AAS has a greater degree of ending weight gain and strength gain while also having a more successful level of retention of weight and strength upon cessation of administered drugs. In addition to this marked advantage, it was also observed in blood samples and vitals that designer steroids raised blood pressure, blood lipids and liver enzymes greater then AAS. Not only are AAS a more effective drug for building muscle and weight, but is also less stressful to the body. It's been hypothesized that the greater weight retention could be because of AAS's length of use that allows the body to manufacture larger amounts of Myofibril. This could be why the weight is gained at a slower and steady rate. The greater amount of weight gained from designer steroids is due to a rapid uptake of water and glycogen into the muscle cells. That explains why the weight is gained quickly but plateaus shortly after.

Hmm, kinda looks like real science to me. But how should I know, I'm just a microbiology student.






You're not the only one who can be a sarcastic a$$ hole

 

[smash1904]

rofl

 

[DBdude]

Really? No more smart jackass comments? So glad you understand how real science works, I knew you were a smart and understanding fellow

 

[jbryand101b]

do you have a link to that study that clearly must have been published in a well respected journal.

study i posted had nothing to do with what we are talking about, it just compared gains which 8 weeks of anavar plus low dose of test had same gains as 20 weeks of test e @ 600mg. 17lbs.

but keeping gains will be determined on how agressive the pct used is, and how experienced the user is at that process.

shutdown will be less with a cycle of a mild aas plus low dose of test, than a cycle of 20 weeks of test, and gains made will be easier to keep.

 

[DBdude]

I tried, but sigh* They told me it's been common knowledge for awhile now, thats why they Rx testosterone & deca but not halodrol or superdrol. Epi was the only legit Rx but that project failed to treat breast cancer.

Science is what we experiment and observe. Science is also repeatable. Replicate my study, I'm sure you'll be as happy with the results and see the difference. Until then I fear my knowledge falls on deaf ears (or blind eyes)for you. So with that I bid you a good day sir :ban:

 

[OrganicShadow]

Im 23 and considering my first cycle. I have a couple PHs in the cabinet now but still debating on if I wanna wait. Depends on how my gains are in the off season.

 

[jbryand101b]

I tried, but sigh* They told me it's been common knowledge for awhile now, thats why they Rx testosterone & deca but not halodrol or superdrol. Epi was the only legit Rx but that project failed to treat breast cancer.

Science is what we experiment and observe. Science is also repeatable. Replicate my study, I'm sure you'll be as happy with the results and see the difference. Until then I fear my knowledge falls on deaf ears (or blind eyes)for you. So with that I bid you a good day sir :ban:

okay, got it, you have no actual data based studies, nor do you read them, and are confusing science with bro science.

your study is an anecdotal one, so unfortunately, all results are flawed and inadmissable for actual data based fact. but, if you disagree, write to one of the many well respected aas journals, and see if they publish it, or laugh at you.

anavar is another methylated oral steroid, and it is still used in the medical community from aids patients, seniors, to burn victims.

 

[DBdude]

okay, got it, you have no actual data based studies, nor do you read them, and are confusing science with bro science.

your study is an anecdotal one, so unfortunately, all results are flawed and inadmissable for actual data based fact. but, if you disagree, write to one of the many well respected aas journals, and see if they publish it, or laugh at you.

anavar is another methylated oral steroid, and it is still used in the medical community from aids patients, seniors, to burn victims.

I have read plenty of all types of studies, it's required for my degree. The only flaw with my study is the limited group of subjects. All other aspects of my study meet the standards for data experiments. Consider this a study in process and the data looks promising. It is not broscience when its observed and documented with blood profiles and vitals. That is science by definition.

 

[jbryand101b]

I have read plenty of all types of studies, it's required for my degree. The only flaw with my study is the limited group of subjects. All other aspects of my study meet the standards for data experiments. Consider this a study in process and the data looks promising. It is not broscience when its observed and documented with blood profiles and vitals. That is science by definition.

Okay, drop us a link when its published!

 

[DBdude]

Okay, drop us a link when its published!

I think I will, really considering using it as my research project for my doctorate degree in pharmacology.

 

[Bry17]

I tried, but sigh* They told me it's been common knowledge for awhile now, thats why they Rx testosterone & deca but not halodrol or superdrol. Epi was the only legit Rx but that project failed to treat breast cancer.

Science is what we experiment and observe. Science is also repeatable. Replicate my study, I'm sure you'll be as happy with the results and see the difference. Until then I fear my knowledge falls on deaf ears (or blind eyes)for you. So with that I bid you a good day sir :ban:

Dimethazine was once an Rx. Epi was never prescribed to treat breast cancer. You are thinking of desmethyl epi.

I have read plenty of all types of studies, it's required for my degree. The only flaw with my study is the limited group of subjects. All other aspects of my study meet the standards for data experiments. Consider this a study in process and the data looks promising. It is not broscience when its observed and documented with blood profiles and vitals. That is science by definition.

:notsureifsrs:

 

[OrganicShadow]

I have read plenty of all types of studies, it's required for my degree. The only flaw with my study is the limited group of subjects. All other aspects of my study meet the standards for data experiments. Consider this a study in process and the data looks promising. It is not broscience when its observed and documented with blood profiles and vitals. That is science by definition.

Bro thats awesome. Id like to see its finished product.

 

[chrisrob05]

I like how people like "HUNGRYH" like to put themselves on a "TRT" at the age of 19 and claim that getting smashed and f***ed is what "all of the biggest guys do." What a clown......That's what all of the fattest guys do. My God!! Some people shouldn't talk sometimes!!! I'm healthy and have the endurance of a fighter. I don't think that bar-bodied fat-asses that drink too much can run to their car during a thunderstorm without running out of breath.

 

[DragonRider]

I like how people like "HUNGRYH" like to put themselves on a "TRT" at the age of 19 and claim that getting smashed and f***ed is what "all of the biggest guys do." What a clown......That's what all of the fattest guys do. My God!! Some people shouldn't talk sometimes!!! I'm healthy and have the endurance of a fighter. I don't think that bar-bodied fat-asses that drink too much can run to their car during a thunderstorm without running out of breath.

One more thing he just became the poster child for.

By the way, Thank you very much for the negged reps HungryH. When some people neg you, it's a compliment. So, from the bottom of my heart, Thank You, I deeply appreciate what negged reps from you does to my reputation.

 

[chrisrob05]

One more thing he just became the poster child for.

By the way, Thank you very much for the negged reps HungryH. When some people neg you, it's a compliment. So, from the bottom of my heart, Thank You, I deeply appreciate what negged reps from you does to my reputation.

Thank you for saying that-I'm glad that someone else notices that this guy really is a space cadet

 

[GLHF]

umm i started shooting up cuz i got tossed around by this roid head on the field and nothing else worked in my hopes of stoping him were crushed until i stabed my quad..

 

[OrganicShadow]

I like how people like "HUNGRYH" like to put themselves on a "TRT" at the age of 19 and claim that getting smashed and f***ed is what "all of the biggest guys do." What a clown......That's what all of the fattest guys do. My God!! Some people shouldn't talk sometimes!!! I'm healthy and have the endurance of a fighter. I don't think that bar-bodied fat-asses that drink too much can run to their car during a thunderstorm without running out of breath.

Huh, I missed that. Went back and read it - theres nothing sensible in the post...at all.