Whatever happened to parental discipline?

TheLastRonin said:
Refute me on the points I am wrong about if we are being frank. I use an educated guess and experience.
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1. No, in the post you quoted I had not yet said implies, I also didn't say she's going to pay him back. Using common sense, what she said was an *implication* of her willingness to make payments. If she defaults on that after receiving the estimates, then further action is necessary, but from the start I would at least give the benefit of the doubt.

2. If I had to guess I would say he started AM classes at age 10. He raised him and his brother as best he could as a single father. He also worked a full time job with a varying schedule. The main problem came about when he would spend time with his mother who was a very bad influence, however according to the court, she had the right to see him.

3. Saying there is always hope is a wide generalization. Is there still hope for the Menendez brothers or various other kids who have assaulted their parents or worse? My brother is disabled, this a-hole threatened him and even pushed him. Of course by the time I got there he was gone. When I did confront him I cornered his punk a$$ and all he did was cry, I begged him to hit me, he was 17-20 at the time.

4. A spanking can be considered child abuse. When the child is young it's up to family services to make that determination. As they get older it's up to the police to decide if they want to pursue charges of domestic violence. There was a teenage girl getting unruly with her mom and her dad slap her face. She called the cops and the dad was arrested on charges of domestic violence. Every situation is different. What you deem discipline the courts may see as abuse.

I was, lets call it spanked, as a child. When I was in school they still allowed the teachers to paddle the students. That was a different time. It worked for me because I had no desire to have my dad grab the belt. But that type of discipline does not work with every person.
Kids I grew up with had the same type of punishments, they still chose to cut class, smoke weed, drink alcohol, steal cars, etc.
People, even kids, will do what they will. You as a parent can only hope they learn what you are trying to teach them, but you can't make them learn it or agree with it.
 
pool_shark said:
1. No, in the post you quoted I had not yet said implies, I also didn't say she's going to pay him back. Using common sense, what she said was an *implication* of her willingness to make payments. If she defaults on that after receiving the estimates, then further action is necessary, but from the start I would at least give the benefit of the doubt.

YYou are a much more trusting individual than I am PS. This stems from running a business and running into these types of people everyday. Unless its in writing your SOL most of the time. Its just a different world out there so I would not deem that line of reasoning "common sense".

2. If I had to guess I would say he started AM classes at age 10. He raised him and his brother as best he could as a single father. He also worked a full time job with a varying schedule. The main problem came about when he would spend time with his mother who was a very bad influence, however according to the court, she had the right to see him.

Ah there you go.He started his training late (not from birth,so was not corrected early enough) was not raised by both willing parents and the mother contradicted everything the father tried to instill. Like I mentioned it can usually be traced back to the parents unless there is a mental disorder. I have known women like this in my life as well. Selfish people, rear selfish children. Your brother must have felt helpless.I would have hired a PI and proved she was a bad influence though and moved him away.

3. Saying there is always hope is a wide generalization. Is there still hope for the Menendez brothers or various other kids who have assaulted their parents or worse? My brother is disabled, this a-hole threatened him and even pushed him. Of course by the time I got there he was gone. When I did confront him I cornered his punk a$$ and all he did was cry, I begged him to hit me, he was 17-20 at the time.

No not at all. I mentioned people with MD were a different case. They cold heatedly murdered their parents for money and to take out years of mental abuse on them. They are both married and functioning workers in prison now. I do believe some murderers can be rehabilitated. Not all, not many, but some.It does not mean I would feel that they would deserve this chance, though It has happened.

4. A spanking can be considered child abuse. When the child is young it's up to family services to make that determination. As they get older it's up to the police to decide if they want to pursue charges of domestic violence. There was a teenage girl getting unruly with her mom and her dad slap her face. She called the cops and the dad was arrested on charges of domestic violence. Every situation is different. What you deem discipline the courts may see as abuse.

Slapping someone (hitting) in the face is not spanking. Spanking in every state is deemed appropriate for underage children(read the link). The police and family services can make their own assumption and try to pursue charges, although it will not hold up in court unless their is actual excessive force used.If the child already respects you, there they will accept the punishment.Its A tool not the only one.

I was, lets call it spanked, as a child. When I was in school they still allowed the teachers to paddle the students. That was a different time. It worked for me because I had no desire to have my dad grab the belt. But that type of discipline does not work with every person.
Kids I grew up with had the same type of punishments, they still chose to cut class, smoke weed, drink alcohol, steal cars, etc.
People, even kids, will do what they will. You as a parent can only hope they learn what you are trying to teach them, but you can't make them learn it or agree with it.
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Like I mentioned its one tool. They also need mental regulating. They need to be praised when they do something(sometimes anything) right. They need structure, boundaries and parents willing to sacrifice their own time and lives to rear them properly. Having seen what your brother went though, would you not put 110% into raising any children you had? Put in every effort to make sure your child had a proper upbringing?
This is the problem nowadays. Most parents are not concerned with their families well being. How many families eat meals together? Go camping or spend time doing activities as a family(besides watching tv)? If there is no cohesive structure the family will fall apart. It takes sacrifice (yes even gym time lol) and lots of love to make marriage and child rearing successful.
If you put forth this effort the child will see the light of it.
 
i proudly raised 3 boys well 1 is still 14 i have a paddle made from a old goalie hockey stick with holes drilled in it.i raised them the same way i was raised.1/2 the reason i work out is so they still fear me. i am only 39 and will be 43 when the last one is 18.i see my friends having kids at 40 years old and i think your going to be 55 when their 15 how the hell are you going to keep up with them.
 
TheLastRonin said:
Like I mentioned its one tool. They also need mental regulating. They need to be praised when they do something(sometimes anything) right. They need structure, boundaries and parents willing to sacrifice their own time and lives to rear them properly. Having seen what your brother went though, would you not put 110% into raising any children you had? Put in every effort to make sure your child had a proper upbringing?
This is the problem nowadays. Most parents are not concerned with their families well being. How many families eat meals together? Go camping or spend time doing activities as a family(besides watching tv)? If there is no cohesive structure the family will fall apart. It takes sacrifice (yes even gym time lol) and lots of love to make marriage and child rearing successful.
If you put forth this effort the child will see the light of it.
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Again, you are generalizing. You seem to think everyone will respond equally to the same stimuli.
Parents can raise 2 children exactly the same way, one grows up to be a successful contributing member of society, and the other can grow up to be a criminal.

Not every "bad" child or person is that way because of a lack of effort on the part of the parents.

A parent can only provide the building blocks, but there is no way to guarantee what the offspring what to make of them.

You are clearly stuck in some sort of false utopia. I have said my peace and you've said yours. As far as I'm concerned, this conversation is over.
 
pool_shark said:
Again, you are generalizing. You seem to think everyone will respond equally to the same stimuli.
Parents can raise 2 children exactly the same way, one grows up to be a successful contributing member of society, and the other can grow up to be a criminal.

Not every "bad" child or person is that way because of a lack of effort on the part of the parents.

A parent can only provide the building blocks, but there is no way to guarantee what the offspring what to make of them.

You are clearly stuck in some sort of false utopia. I have said my peace and you've said yours. As far as I'm concerned, this conversation is over.
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I am not generalizing in any way. Its sad you have to resort to that line of thinking. What I have stated are proven facts in the world of children and raising them. Scientific studies have documented this. I am not stuck in a "false utopia" as I know from experience that these methods work. I do not think any child can turn out to be perfect with all those hormones raging around inside them, they can however be pointed in the right direction and be taught to be productive,happy members of society. The direction your nephew took is close to your heart and you are being defensive because it construes his parents (your brother in particular) in a bad light. If you want results you must put in the effort. That is undisputed in any facet of life and more so with children. You must not only give them the building blocks but teach them how to best utilize them.Children should not have to teach themselves, you know where that leads. As you have been unable to refute anything I have said I will agree to a conclusion of this discussion.
 
I am stunned, work will begin tuesday and finish later in the week. The neighbor told me to book it and he will pay. Just over $300, so we shall see
 
AE14 said:
I am stunned, work will begin tuesday and finish later in the week. The neighbor told me to book it and he will pay. Just over $300, so we shall see
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This is why I was glad that you told us what the estimate came to. I feel like poeple here were downplaying it like it would cost you nothing to fix it. I'm not sure if any of you are rolling in cash, but $300 is a big deal. Good on the neighbor for taking responsibility for thier kids, and good on AE14 for handling it properly.
 
thanks man. I didnt want to have to go to court, unless 100% necessary. That would have taken a lot more time and drama than necessary
 
Alright, sorry to jump in here. I'm not on here much anymore, but just had to comment on this. I 100% agree with the kids being punished and the parents/kids being made to pay. I also think the kids should have a hand in or at least be made to watch the repairs, so they learn the consequences of their actions. Both society and parents are to be blamed for this sad state of affairs, the reasons speak for themselves. Bravo AE14 for calling them out!! My fiancee used to always tell me "Honey, let it go," or give me that "You need to shut your mouth nudge" out in public. That's the problem, nobody calling anyone out about unacceptable actions. I for one, do not have that problem. That all changed with my fiancee once something happened to her and I gave her the same nudge she always gave me. The problem in doing nothing is that nothing gets done, and these aholes will continue their behavior. As far as a little physicality, I feel it has it's place. I know I learned more from touching a hot burner that being told not to touch a hot burner, so take that for what it's worth. Your always going to have the extreme in both cases, of too little or too much, but that's common for anything. What isn't common is the ability to know the right amount. I'm just fed up of people making excuses. Granted, they are kids, but letting this go unanswered would only serve to condone that behavior, and set up the mentality so prevelant in society today, that it's okay since nobody did/said anything. I could go on and on, but I have to get back to weeding planning,lol. I definitely respect your taking a stand against this kinda crap, and hope it all works out for the best bud!!!!!
 
Thanks, sorry for the long winded post though. Just that this sorta crap has been bothering me for a very long time. Those kids will grow up to be the same people who put laws into effect protecting people lacking similar moral, ethical and common sense ideals and values, which in turn punishes those of us who are just and decent. Worse yet, they may even wind up behind a bench presiding over cases. Sorry for the thread hijack, let us know how this continues to work out man.
 
work began yesterday :woohoo:

father finally came down and was stunned by the damage, and he came with cash :thumbsup:

more credit to him for being a man about this, 2 weeks after the fact.
 
AE14 said:
Ok, a bit of a rant here. I must say firstly that I am very fortunate that I listen to my wife, or I might be typing this from jail ;)

So.....my 7 year old typically goes out to play with all the other kids on the block. Most of the kids are good kids, but of course there are a few who are truly monsters.

So I am out in my yard bbq'ing and my daughter is with me. A little boy who lives up the street and is in her class, sees her and comes running down screaming her name. When he gets there, I tell him we are eating in 5 minutes, but my daughter will be back out if she wants after dinner. In fact, I told him I would walk her up to his house to play.

Fast forward 25 minutes.....dinner is over. My daughter and I are cleaning up, and there at the screen door is this little twit and his younger sister. They start screaming into my house for my daughter, and scratching my screen door. I loudly tell them to stop. 2 seconds later, I hear a crash, and look outside my door, and I see that they were jumping on the stone work around my door. The stones are now laying on the patio.

My wife refuses to allow me to go see them (bad temper issue) and calls the mom, who only apologizes.

WTF.....an apology? how about coming down to see the damage, and offering to have it fixed?

When did this happen? When I was a kid, if that was me, I would have been forced to go to their house with friggin elmer's glue, and then would be eating food through a straw.

As a parent and a teacher, I have seen this progressing for a while...however, it is just sad to see the lack of accountability at this point.
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If I did something like that when I was a kid, I would have gotten my a$$ beat...then sent over with my parents to apologize in person for the damage. I then would have gotten my a$$ beat again...and then grounded for the next 1-4 weeks depending on the severity of what I had done.

And if I ever have kids and pull $hit like that...I will beat their azz believe you me.

Glad to hear everything worked out!
 
TheDarkHalf said:
If I did something like that when I was a kid, I would have gotten my a$$ beat...then sent over with my parents to apologize in person for the damage. I then would have gotten my a$$ beat again...and then grounded for the next 1-4 weeks depending on the severity of what I had done.

And if I ever have kids and pull $hit like that...I will beat their azz believe you me.

Glad to hear everything worked out!
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Yea i was considering what would have happened to me.

I would have received the ass kicking of a lifetime, as soon as I stopped crying/looking physically dead, I would have had to go over and appologize. I then would have been without games/contact with the outside world for at least a month.
 
HereToStudy said:
Yea i was considering what would have happened to me.

I would have received the ass kicking of a lifetime, as soon as I stopped crying/looking physically dead, I would have had to go over and appologize. I then would have been without games/contact with the outside world for at least a month.
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Sounds about right. My parents didn't f uck around. They even had a hand-crafted wooden paddle that my dad made in his shed and it even had a hand grip.
 
I remember my principal in middle school had a paddle withe holes in it. Said it made it hit harder because it had less resistance moving through the air from the holes. At the time, I didn't know about aerodynamics, but I did know about pain, so I just assumed it was true,lol.
 
TheDarkHalf said:
Sounds about right. My parents didn't f uck around. They even had a hand-crafted wooden paddle that my dad made in his shed and it even had a hand grip.
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Haha sounds like wat my stepdad has on the wall in his office (hes a principal). He had my grandad make him one bc his old one broke on a students hind quarters. The new one had holes in the paddle and a hand grip. Kids confess to all types of things when they see that thing on the wall haha. Thank god some school systems still allow spanking.
 
n8te said:
Haha sounds like wat my stepdad has on the wall in his office (hes a principal). He had my grandad make him one bc his old one broke on a students hind quarters. The new one had holes in the paddle and a hand grip. Kids confess to all types of things when they see that thing on the wall haha. Thank god some school systems still allow spanking.
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Really? Some schools still allow this? Damn they deserve full government funding, and to be copied by the rest of the nation as a prime example. And the next person who steps up to complain about it, needs their face beat in with that paddle.



Glad to hear their father has taken to doing whats right AE14, hopefully his kids learn a thing or two.
 
We had a thing in my shop class called a "Hack" it was basically a 3 foot long paddle, with a handle of course, and a few small holes in it. Looked like a giant flat wiffle bad. Well it was metal shop, big open space, lots of vents, etc. When you did something stupid, like smoke weed, or make a bomb (happens all the time) or skip class and get caught, you had an option. 1: get reported and go to the office. 2: get a number of hacks corresponding to the crime. Hacks were administered by someone the class votes on, normally the strongest guy. Pretty sure this was not allowed, but a kid would rather have his ass beat than have cops called lol.

Also,

Beat you children. To the fe wwho are talking about it being illegal, I am fairly sure we are all talking about spanking. My dad whooped my ass, I;d have bruises on my ass regularly. I got in a fight when I was in kindergarten, my dad beat my ass. I dont remember what the fight was about, but I learned my lesson, and even when I am right fighting is not the answer. Haven't got in a fight since. I also stole often, every time I got caught my ass got beat. Every time I got a bad grade my ass got beat. I hated my dad growing up, because I thought he was excessive. Then he died when I was 12, and I grew up very fast, and looked back on what he did. Every single time he disciplined me he would tell me how many paddles I would get, I would have to count them, and after words he would ask me if I understand what I did, and if I didn't he would explain it to me, and then say he loved me. I am an awesome guy because of this. I grew up in south Tacoma, my best friend's life dream was to be a gang-banger. I am one of the most patriotic people you will find, joined the Army at 17, have been in 5 years, volunteer to deploy every chance I get, etc. I am a good man. I believe it is because I was taught right form wrong at a young age. I got left home alone at 7, because I was not an idiot kid.

If my kid ever wants to call the cops on me for spanking, Ill dial for him/her. Cops will show up, see a bruised behind, and leave. No court would ever convict you of something when the evidence is a bastard child and a bruised behind.
 
Jayhawkk said:
What the **** kind of shop class did you attend? The one at the Illinois Statesville prison?
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Metal shop at Naches Valley High School :D Graduating class had 95 in it I think. WA state baby! My teacher was a double retiree, dude had been teaching shop for 40 years as his hobby, was an apple farmer who owned most of the orchards in the area.
 
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