Whatever happened to parental discipline?

AE14

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Ok, a bit of a rant here. I must say firstly that I am very fortunate that I listen to my wife, or I might be typing this from jail ;)

So.....my 7 year old typically goes out to play with all the other kids on the block. Most of the kids are good kids, but of course there are a few who are truly monsters.

So I am out in my yard bbq'ing and my daughter is with me. A little boy who lives up the street and is in her class, sees her and comes running down screaming her name. When he gets there, I tell him we are eating in 5 minutes, but my daughter will be back out if she wants after dinner. In fact, I told him I would walk her up to his house to play.

Fast forward 25 minutes.....dinner is over. My daughter and I are cleaning up, and there at the screen door is this little twit and his younger sister. They start screaming into my house for my daughter, and scratching my screen door. I loudly tell them to stop. 2 seconds later, I hear a crash, and look outside my door, and I see that they were jumping on the stone work around my door. The stones are now laying on the patio.

My wife refuses to allow me to go see them (bad temper issue) and calls the mom, who only apologizes.

WTF.....an apology? how about coming down to see the damage, and offering to have it fixed?

When did this happen? When I was a kid, if that was me, I would have been forced to go to their house with friggin elmer's glue, and then would be eating food through a straw.

As a parent and a teacher, I have seen this progressing for a while...however, it is just sad to see the lack of accountability at this point.
 
I can relate. Years ago when I lived at my parents, a couple neighborhood rugrats were playing next door. One of them kicked a ball through a window on our patio. They ran and I found them hiding looking out for me. The one that fessed up I marched up to his house to tell his parents. He lived with his grandparents. His granddad was on the phone when we got there he was on the phone. He seemed quite annoyed that I had the audacity to march his boy home. He said "well what do you want me to do about it?". I said you need to make arrangements with my dad to pay for it. Needless to say he didn't pay for it. And that was probably 10 years ago.
 
its ridiculous. there is no accountability for kids (in general of course)
 
There is a major problem with accountability in general in this culture. We're (overall, that is) far too quick to blame others for our failures. It's just so much easier to point the finger at someone else than to accept the fact that you ****ed up and to take responsibility for that fact.
 
I see it everyday with the kids in my school. It is automatically the fault of others, or outside of that, a quick and easy denial. Being dishonest is so much easier than honesty
 
AE14 said:
then would be eating food through a straw.
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This is so true, Honestly.... I wasn't the best kid when I was younger, but I knew my limits because my parents could strike the fear of god into me with just a look, simply because I knew what came after the look if I continued.

Hated it then, but it made me a better person now.
 
i have been blessed with a good daughter but often wonder what life would be like if i wasn't or i had a misfit son. ultimately if i did it would be because either myself or the mother failed somewhere along the way. kids are not born bad. i believe every child is good in the beginning of life but they often pick up bad habits, bad attitudes and everything else from the people they are around. early in life the only people i was around was my family and a couple of good friends from the block. i love to hear about kids who weren't watched closely as a child and had way too much freedom, they usually turn out to be the "bad kids", generally speaking of course. or kids from poor neighborhoods who wind up in and out of detention homes, gangs, prison and jails....look at how they were raised, again generally speaking, they were let loose in the streets way to young, some as soon as they could walk.....but it's society's fault not theirs...right?
 
HereToStudy said:
This is so true, Honestly.... I wasn't the best kid when I was younger, but I knew my limits because my parents could strike the fear of god into me with just a look, simply because I knew what came after the look if I continued.

Hated it then, but it made me a better person now.
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my god....when I got the look or even worse, heard my name in full (as opposed to a nickname) I would literally run and hide. However, today, at 34 I know right and wrong. Many kids today dont have that fear. Mom and dad want to be friends before actual parents. While I was friendly with my dad, however, I knew that if I went too far it was all over

After thinking for a bit about the situation, and out of respect for my wife, I am going to email the pictures to the mother, and explain(nicely) that I will be forwarding a repair estimate to her once I receive it. If that does not prove the response I want, I will make sure to pay her husband a visit :)
 
I just heard from my wife, and was advised that the family wants to come over to talk to me. They better get there after I lift, otherwise I might have to smack them :lol:
 
When my son was about 8yoa he said to me, "It's not my fault." He is now 19 and I have yet to here those words out of his mouth again.
 
here is a little update. So the mom brought hte kids to apologize and it was a sad apology. Howeverr, I cant expect much from 7 and 4 year olds.

She then proceeds that "she feels somewhat responsible", to which I agreed. This is a summary ofthe conversation

Her: We are really tight on money
Me: Arent we all. When I get estimates shortly I will stop by and show them to you
Her: Ok, but maybe we can pay you back a little at a time
Me: Again...I will stop by with the estimates.

It seems that I have a reputation on the block as she also told me that her son disobeyed her, as he knows he is not allowed to come to our house.

Time to get ready for small claims court it seems
 
That is so lame that you have to take it that far just to get your money...Where has common decency gone
 
Well im guessing if you fixed it your self it would cost less then 10 dollars. A busted bag of cement at lowes is only $.50 cents. No need to take a poor lady to court over a very very easy fix. Probably werent even concreted down.
 
FranklinH357 said:
Well im guessing if you fixed it your self it would cost less then 10 dollars. A busted bag of cement at lowes is only $.50 cents. No need to take a poor lady to court over a very very easy fix. Probably werent even concreted down.
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Not really the point about the cause. It's peoples attitudes like yours that contribute to the way society is today as a whole. Its was someones property that they damaged. They should work it off and fix it them selves or have to pay for it. The Mother/Father who have taught them how to misbehave by their inaction are responsible. Perhaps they will be more prudent in their discipline after learning this easily avoidable lesson.
If I had done this as a youth I would at the very least have been spanked and grounded with double chores added to my schedule. I would not have attempted something so foolish again.
Some boys were throwing rocks at my old mans glass door(not their first time in the neighborhood either) not too long ago just to hear the sound it would make if it broke. They were around 10. My father being my father grabbed them,yelled at them and marched them to their parents.The boys were crying having never had an adult treat them this way. The parents apologized but made no mention of paying. My father then remarked perhaps they would like the same look for their glass door? They saw his eyes, they paid him. They boys have never acted out against a neighbor since.
Regulate you children people.
 
HereToStudy said:
AE14, Let us know what the estimate comes out to.
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will do

FranklinH357 said:
Well im guessing if you fixed it your self it would cost less then 10 dollars. A busted bag of cement at lowes is only $.50 cents. No need to take a poor lady to court over a very very easy fix. Probably werent even concreted down.
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Your guess would be incorrect. It was concrete, about 9 years ago. Now its rubble. At the end of the day, I should not have to pay for it. It was her children. As a father myself, if the role was reversed I would have already been in contact with a contractor to get it repaired
nparisi said:
That is so lame that you have to take it that far just to get your money...Where has common decency gone
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for some...nonexistant

TheLastRonin said:
Not really the point about the cause. It's peoples attitudes like yours that contribute to the way society is today as a whole. Its was someones property that they damaged. They should work it off and fix it them selves or have to pay for it. The Mother/Father who have taught them how to misbehave by their inaction are responsible. Perhaps they will be more prudent in their discipline after learning this easily avoidable lesson.
If I had done this as a youth I would at the very least have been spanked and grounded with double chores added to my schedule. I would not have attempted something so foolish again.
Some boys were throwing rocks at my old mans glass door(not their first time in the neighborhood either) not too long ago just to hear the sound it would make if it broke. They were around 10. My father being my father grabbed them,yelled at them and marched them to their parents.The boys were crying having never had an adult treat them this way. The parents apologized but made no mention of paying. My father then remarked perhaps they would like the same look for their glass door? They saw his eyes, they paid him. They boys have never acted out against a neighbor since.
Regulate you children people.
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couldnt agree more. I could not imagine the punishment I would have received, outside of the extra work I wouldhave had to do to pay for it. <shutters>
 
A 4 year old is not gonna recieve a hard punishment end of story, you compare it to a 10 year old throwing rocks. He was very aware of what he was doing this 4 year old stood on a rock and broke it. Your lucky they dont sue you safety hazard they could say they got hurt..
 
FranklinH357 said:
A 4 year old is not gonna recieve a hard punishment end of story, you compare it to a 10 year old throwing rocks. He was very aware of what he was doing this 4 year old stood on a rock and broke it. Your lucky they dont sue you safety hazard they could say they got hurt..
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I was spanked from 2 on and was made to do chores as soon as I could follow my parents around. Your example is again something that is wrong with societies lax hand. I know of a boy who was 8 who got caught stealing from the pharmacy. The owner made him pick up garbage while he waited for the parents. When they went home and the boy told them what the owner made him do, they called the police on the owner. The Policemen's words to him were to the effect "So..your judge jury and executioner huh?". HE was almost arrested for "child abuse". This is the state the world(1st world nations anyhow) is in because of YOUR line of thinking.
 
FranklinH357 said:
A 4 year old is not gonna recieve a hard punishment end of story, you compare it to a 10 year old throwing rocks. He was very aware of what he was doing this 4 year old stood on a rock and broke it. Your lucky they dont sue you safety hazard they could say they got hurt..
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TheLastRonin said:
I was spanked from 2 on and was made to do chores as soon as I could follow my parents around. Your example is again something that is wrong with societies lax hand. I know of a boy who was 8 who got caught stealing from the pharmacy. The owner made him pick up garbage while he waited for the parents. When they went home and the boy told them what the owner made him do, they called the police on the owner. The Policemen's words to him were to the effect "So..your judge jury and executioner huh?". HE was almost arrested for "child abuse". This is the state the world(1st world nations anyhow) is in because of YOUR line of thinking.
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So many good good points in this thread. I have nothing of real value to add, but I will say: kids are kids, accidents happen, I get everything thats been said, I got my beatings, I learned my lessons, I stand up for my mistakes, Ive paid for my mistakes, the problem is there is no fear anymore, thats all I will say.
 
FranklinH357 said:
A 4 year old is not gonna recieve a hard punishment end of story, you compare it to a 10 year old throwing rocks. He was very aware of what he was doing this 4 year old stood on a rock and broke it. Your lucky they dont sue you safety hazard they could say they got hurt..
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I guess you didnt read the point where she was there with her 7 year old brother? Also, it was much more than standing on a rock and breaking it.

Additionally, what would your suggestion be? I tell them I am sorry and pay for it myself?

Your post illustrates one of the major problems with this society. The lack of responsibility of the parent is mind numbing.
 
TexasTitan said:
Invalid Link Removed

;)
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A good disciplinarian only has to punish their kids once.
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:lol:

Let me tell you, as already discussed here, I learned quick at that age. Once my father gave me "the look" dear god was that enough.

He has been dead for 13 years and the image is still ingrained in my head :)
 
this has gotten better. the father insists that the stones were faulty as a 4 and 7 year old should not have been able to that damage. So I told him, the one thing I was pretty sure of was that the stones were not made to be a trampoline. What a jacka$$
 
When I was a kid I stole from big bear, a couple of toys you know...I didnt sit for a week when my dad found out, had to return them to the store and apologize...

Honestly, this whole child abuse thing is bullcrap. Kids really just need beaten, some of them pretty consistently. With love and an intention to imbue them with respect and some values, not out of anger of course.

A story my sis told once was how she picked up the phone and threatened to call children's services....my mother then told her to dial 911 as well because she was going to need it by the time they got there :D

My older brother told me once(he was my half brother, not my moms real son) that he told my mom she could not whip him because he was not hers, she chased him around and around a circle table. Then she waited as he went around to the other side which was a corner...pinned him against the wall with the table, crawled across it and tore him all to hell :D

My sister is now an English Professor in a college, very intelligent and driven in life.

Well my half brother...I seen him for the first time in about 10 years last weekend...he ended up going home to his real mom which was white trash who ruined his life, she never punished him, let him run with gangs,etc....

Nuff said...

My kids...well, they will be raised to do good and fear God, and my hand will bring about his rules across their back ends as needed. At the end of your life, the only real comfort a dieing man can have is feeling that he lived his life right, and that he gave his children the best chance at life he could. Am I not right?
 
Well i can understand if they are being smart asses about it and not being helping. The kids should be punished yes but not severely. Yes they were at fault and considering there is a dad around i think he should come down there and fix it himself. No reason to go to court, the dad should just come fix it and be done. I thought it was just a poor single mom trying to raise 2 kids, it kinda changes things when there is a father involved. Hell fix it your self with a bag of concrete. Take 10 minutes and $5 worth of supplies fix it then charge her an $80 bill for fixing it, you win both ways.
 
It's f*ckin crazy bro. As a father of 2 step children it's difficult trying to better children that were brought up babied.

My son knows what the deal is though. He'll be 2 years old on the 30th of this month and completely owns his mom. When it comes to me I just need to give him a look or that deeper voice and he knows it's on. I'm dumbfounded by the things I see on a daily basis from other kids. I remember I couldn't go to school for a week because my dad beat my ass so bad.

Ohh the stories....It's made me into a damn good person though. Would have never thought that.
 
FranklinH357 said:
Well i can understand if they are being smart asses about it and not being helping. The kids should be punished yes but not severely. Yes they were at fault and considering there is a dad around i think he should come down there and fix it himself. No reason to go to court, the dad should just come fix it and be done. I thought it was just a poor single mom trying to raise 2 kids, it kinda changes things when there is a father involved. Hell fix it your self with a bag of concrete. Take 10 minutes and $5 worth of supplies fix it then charge her an $80 bill for fixing it, you win both ways.
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if the damage was that small I would be fine, but it unfortunately is not.

MrBigPR said:
It's f*ckin crazy bro. As a father of 2 step children it's difficult trying to better children that were brought up babied.

My son knows what the deal is though. He'll be 2 years old on the 30th of this month and completely owns his mom. When it comes to me I just need to give him a look or that deeper voice and he knows it's on. I'm dumbfounded by the things I see on a daily basis from other kids. I remember I couldn't go to school for a week because my dad beat my ass so bad.

Ohh the stories....It's made me into a damn good person though. Would have never thought that.
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I remember the spaghetti spoon. Took several a$$ whoopings with that thing, prongs in. Got broken on me several times. That was the 80's too, that was all wood
 
I don't see any part of the story that says the parents told you they were not going to discipline the kids.

Maybe she did spank the kids, maybe they aren't allowed out of the yard for a while, maybe they don't get to watch TV or play video games, maybe they don't get an allowance for a while, maybe they have extra chores to do, etc.

You did say that the mother said "maybe we can pay you back a little at a time".
To me, that implies that they are willing to make restitution but they can't afford to just pay it all up front.
Taking them to court will get you a judgment, but it won't get you the money.

You're angry right now, maybe you should slow down and see where it goes after you get the estimates.
 
TheLastRonin said:
Not really the point about the cause. It's peoples attitudes like yours that contribute to the way society is today as a whole. Its was someones property that they damaged. They should work it off and fix it them selves or have to pay for it. The Mother/Father who have taught them how to misbehave by their inaction are responsible. Perhaps they will be more prudent in their discipline after learning this easily avoidable lesson.
If I had done this as a youth I would at the very least have been spanked and grounded with double chores added to my schedule. I would not have attempted something so foolish again.
Some boys were throwing rocks at my old mans glass door(not their first time in the neighborhood either) not too long ago just to hear the sound it would make if it broke. They were around 10. My father being my father grabbed them,yelled at them and marched them to their parents.The boys were crying having never had an adult treat them this way. The parents apologized but made no mention of paying. My father then remarked perhaps they would like the same look for their glass door? They saw his eyes, they paid him. They boys have never acted out against a neighbor since.
Regulate you children people.
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I'm going to have to disagree with you.

First of all, the mother said "maybe we can pay you back a little at a time".

Secondly, you don't know the kids weren't punished, you're making an assumption. You're assuming that because punishments worked on you that they will work equally as well on everyone else.
I have a nephew that was always in trouble, getting in fights everyday, getting arrested, etc. My brother would punish him and soon after he's back at it again. Eventually my brother was fed up with him and the last time my nephew was arrested my brother told the cops he wasn't coming to get him anymore.
The cops told my brother, "if you don't come get him, we're going to arrest you".

You cannot always control your children, some are more well behaved than others. My brother had to wait until my nephew turned 18 and made him leave the house, that's all he could do. If you hit your child today they can all the cops and have you arrested for domestic violence.

It isn't just what the parents are doing or not doing that's causing the trouble, it's also what the laws prevent parents from doing.
 
pool_shark said:
I don't see any part of the story that says the parents told you they were not going to discipline the kids.

Maybe she did spank the kids, maybe they aren't allowed out of the yard for a while, maybe they don't get to watch TV or play video games, maybe they don't get an allowance for a while, maybe they have extra chores to do, etc.

You did say that the mother said "maybe we can pay you back a little at a time".
To me, that implies that they are willing to make restitution but they can't afford to just pay it all up front.
Taking them to court will get you a judgment, but it won't get you the money.

You're angry right now, maybe you should slow down and see where it goes after you get the estimates.
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actually the kids were grounded for a day. You have to know the parents to understand the lack of discipline, coupled with other complaints from neighbors about the behavior of the kids.

In terms of paying me back a little at a time, that also constitutes me having to lay out the money, but also leaves me on the hook with no guarantee they will make restitution. I am not going to take that risk.
 
pool_shark said:
I don't see any part of the story that says the parents told you they were not going to discipline the kids.

Maybe she did spank the kids, maybe they aren't allowed out of the yard for a while, maybe they don't get to watch TV or play video games, maybe they don't get an allowance for a while, maybe they have extra chores to do, etc.

You did say that the mother said "maybe we can pay you back a little at a time".
To me, that implies that they are willing to make restitution but they can't afford to just pay it all up front.
Taking them to court will get you a judgment, but it won't get you the money.

You're angry right now, maybe you should slow down and see where it goes after you get the estimates.
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actually the kids were grounded for a day. You have to know the parents to understand the lack of discipline, coupled with other complaints from neighbors about the behavior of the kids.

In terms of paying me back a little at a time, that also constitutes me having to lay out the money, but also leaves me on the hook with no guarantee they will make restitution. I am not going to take that risk.
 
pool_shark said:
I'm going to have to disagree with you.

First of all, the mother said "maybe we can pay you back a little at a time".

Secondly, you don't know the kids weren't punished, you're making an assumption. You're assuming that because punishments worked on you that they will work equally as well on everyone else.
I have a nephew that was always in trouble, getting in fights everyday, getting arrested, etc. My brother would punish him and soon after he's back at it again. Eventually my brother was fed up with him and the last time my nephew was arrested my brother told the cops he wasn't coming to get him anymore.
The cops told my brother, "if you don't come get him, we're going to arrest you".

You cannot always control your children, some are more well behaved than others. My brother had to wait until my nephew turned 18 and made him leave the house, that's all he could do. If you hit your child today they can all the cops and have you arrested for domestic violence.

It isn't just what the parents are doing or not doing that's causing the trouble, it's also what the laws prevent parents from doing.
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I am going to show you some holes in your story. 1. "A little at a time" does not mean they will pay you back at all. I run a business I have heard that tale before.It usually means FU I don't want to to pay for it.
2. Your "Nephew" was being punished late in life after he had already become accustomed to doing what he wanted with no consequences. He was not a child. After 14 IMO your child is pretty much a lost cause...although it is possible with enough effort. You have to be on them from birth for best results.
3.Your brother gave up on him. He showed the kid he wasn't worth the effort. That fixes nothing.
4.No one said anything about hitting your child excessively. Just spanking them when they need it. I stand by it, if your state outlaws spanking and your not willing to take the risk, you better be a damn good child psychiatrist or find another means to get the job done. You only have to do it once though...and then give them the look. If you do it right, they will understand.
 
well said lastr. No one wants to beat a kid, nor would that be ok in anyones book. However, they need to fear the hell out of their parents. I remember one of my oldest friends' fathers would just grab his belt, and my buddy would be terrified. He got hit once his entire life, but he knew where the line was.

In addition to the spaghetti spoon in my house, my father would say to my sister or I "you wanna get smacked"? That was all we needed. It stopped right then
 
My dad would grab anything to beat us with. I'd also flinch sometimes because he is very animated...and he'd say you wanna flinch here u go and precede to hit me.
 
AE14 said:
actually the kids were grounded for a day. You have to know the parents to understand the lack of discipline, coupled with other complaints from neighbors about the behavior of the kids.

In terms of paying me back a little at a time, that also constitutes me having to lay out the money, but also leaves me on the hook with no guarantee they will make restitution. I am not going to take that risk.
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Since you're adding more of the background, I can understand your skepticism of the parents.

As far as the money and repairs, if you want it fixed now, you're still going to have to front the money, even if you go to court. The judge can order the payment for damages, but I don't believe they can actually get the money.
 
pool_shark said:
Since you're adding more of the background, I can understand your skepticism of the parents.

As far as the money and repairs, if you want it fixed now, you're still going to have to front the money, even if you go to court. The judge can order the payment for damages, but I don't believe they can actually get the money.
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I am going to have a few estimates this week, which I will hand deliver to their door. Their response will dictate my next action
 
TheLastRonin said:
I am going to show you some holes in your story. 1. "A little at a time" does not mean they will pay you back at all. I run a business I have heard that tale before.It usually means FU I don't want to to pay for it.
2. Your "Nephew" was being punished late in life after he had already become accustomed to doing what he wanted with no consequences. He was not a child. After 14 IMO your child is pretty much a lost cause...although it is possible with enough effort. You have to be on them from birth for best results.
3.Your brother gave up on him. He showed the kid he wasn't worth the effort. That fixes nothing.
4.No one said anything about hitting your child excessively. Just spanking them when they need it. I stand by it, if your state outlaws spanking and your not willing to take the risk, you better be a damn good child psychiatrist or find another means to get the job done. You only have to do it once though...and then give them the look. If you do it right, they will understand.
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You didn't shoot holes in anything.

1. I said "it *implies* that they are willing to make restitution", I didn't say it was a guarantee.

2. I didn't know you knew my brother and nephew nor did I know that you were there to see when he started misbehaving and what type of punishments were handed down. Were you also there when my brother had my nephew go to therapy and anger management classes?

3. Yes, my brother gave up on him after he had been arrested countless times for fighting and trespassing, wouldn't listen to anyone, dropped out of school, broke into his house, and after he threatened my brother who is disabled.

4. I didn't say anything about hitting your child excessively either. All I said was just because something worked on you doesn't mean it will be equally effective on others.

You make a lot of assumptions and you jump to conclusions entirely to quickly.
 
I'm going to have to agree with pool_shark and his reasoning for a couple of reasons of my own.

Discipline by definition:
–noun
1. training to act in accordance with rules; drill: military discipline.
2. activity, exercise, or a regimen that develops or improves a skill; training: A daily stint at the typewriter is excellent discipline for a writer.
3. punishment inflicted by way of correction and training.
4. the rigor or training effect of experience, adversity, etc.: the harsh discipline of poverty.
5. behavior in accord with rules of conduct; behavior and order maintained by training and control: good discipline in an army.
6. a set or system of rules and regulations.
7. Ecclesiastical. the system of government regulating the practice of a church as distinguished from its doctrine.
8. an instrument of punishment, esp. a whip or scourge, used in the practice of self-mortification or as an instrument of chastisement in certain religious communities.
9. a branch of instruction or learning: the disciplines of history and economics.

–verb (used with object)
10. to train by instruction and exercise; drill.
11. to bring to a state of order and obedience by training and control.
12. to punish or penalize in order to train and control; correct; chastise.

In my experience there is a fine but distinct difference between discipline and punishment and it lies in method and motive. What are my objectives and goals from this opportunity?

Discipline:

Motive - To teach a life lesson in my character, their character and maybe even in this opportunity, their victims character (you being the victim).

Method - establishing and affirming the positive and proper behaviors in this situations and illustrating their behaviors in light of this model and contrasting the difference.

Discipline - the spirit is love and correction not anger and reaction.

My Rules of Discipline:

1. Discipline will not be motivated by anger and will not be a reaction. Discipline will be motivated by love and will be a calculated response.
2. Discipline will be done in private and will be with respect. Discipline will not embarrass or humiliate.
3. I will not discipline my child for the gratification or pacification of others.

Our domestic/civil issue is between me (as I am accountable for and represent my minor children) and you. It is not between my children and you.

JMHO :D
 
AE14 said:
well said lastr. No one wants to beat a kid, nor would that be ok in anyones book. However, they need to fear the hell out of their parents. I remember one of my oldest friends' fathers would just grab his belt, and my buddy would be terrified. He got hit once his entire life, but he knew where the line was.

In addition to the spaghetti spoon in my house, my father would say to my sister or I "you wanna get smacked"? That was all we needed. It stopped right then
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MrBigPR said:
My dad would grab anything to beat us with. I'd also flinch sometimes because he is very animated...and he'd say you wanna flinch here u go and precede to hit me.
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The downside to this is the fear.

A child cannot always distinguish the difference in the things they fear to have Dad know about and the things to not fear having Dad know about. If they are afraid of you you may be skipped over on being consulted about some very important stuff in their life that they may have otherwise consulted you about - accept for the fear.

See a movie - Invalid Link Removed
 
pool_shark said:
You didn't shoot holes in anything.

1. I said "it *implies* that they are willing to make restitution", I didn't say it was a guarantee.
You never said *implies* in the post I quoted and If it is not a guarantee than the words are useless.

2. I didn't know you knew my brother and nephew nor did I know that you were there to see when he started misbehaving and what type of punishments were handed down. Were you also there when my brother had my nephew go to therapy and anger management classes?

At what age did he begin these classes? What did he do to raise the child from birth on the right path? Unless the kid has severe mental problems, the problem lies with the parent(s). I have known many children/teenagers like this.It always comes down to how much you are willing to sacrifice for your kids.

3. Yes, my brother gave up on him after he had been arrested countless times for fighting and trespassing, wouldn't listen to anyone, dropped out of school, broke into his house, and after he threatened my brother who is disabled.

There is always hope PS. When you let go of it, they let go of it. I understand the need to make boundaries, I am in full agreement of it. I would never give up on my own child though. There are many escapes.

4. I didn't say anything about hitting your child excessively either. All I said was just because something worked on you doesn't mean it will be equally effective on others.
"If you hit your child today they can all the cops and have you arrested for domestic violence."
This only refers to excessive corporal punishment. Not spanking. Even in the USA.So yes you did refer to that

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You make a lot of assumptions and you jump to conclusions entirely to quickly.
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Refute me on the points I am wrong about if we are being frank. I use an educated guess and experience.
 
David Dunn said:
The downside to this is the fear.

A child cannot always distinguish the difference in the things they fear to have Dad know about and the things to not fear having Dad know about. If they are afraid of you you may be skipped over on being consulted about some very important stuff in their life that they may have otherwise consulted you about - accept for the fear.

See a movie - Invalid Link Removed
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True and I agree with your methods if you and anyone else sticks to their guns and does it whole souled. Although many times I would not even think of doing something wrong, that I knew because of that fear.
Much like Godly fear, your children should "fear" to displease you, much more than fear from physical punishment and definitely not from abuse.I don't think anyone has stated that they support that.
Most parents today do not have their children do chores or work to achieve anything. They are not given direct boundaries of which they should not cross and if they do there is no real discipline given. To discipline your children effectively they need to know boundaries and have the consequences of their actions made real to them. Some figure out the rules with their brain, some with their butt. :drive:
 
David Dunn said:
The downside to this is the fear.

A child cannot always distinguish the difference in the things they fear to have Dad know about and the things to not fear having Dad know about. If they are afraid of you you may be skipped over on being consulted about some very important stuff in their life that they may have otherwise consulted you about - accept for the fear.

See a movie - Invalid Link Removed
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I dont disagree to an extent. There has to be a point where both are acceptable.
 
TheLastRonin said:
I am going to show you some holes in your story. 1. "A little at a time" does not mean they will pay you back at all. I run a business I have heard that tale before.It usually means FU I don't want to to pay for it.
2. Your "Nephew" was being punished late in life after he had already become accustomed to doing what he wanted with no consequences. He was not a child. After 14 IMO your child is pretty much a lost cause...although it is possible with enough effort. You have to be on them from birth for best results.
3.Your brother gave up on him. He showed the kid he wasn't worth the effort. That fixes nothing.
4.No one said anything about hitting your child excessively. Just spanking them when they need it. I stand by it, if your state outlaws spanking and your not willing to take the risk, you better be a damn good child psychiatrist or find another means to get the job done. You only have to do it once though...and then give them the look. If you do it right, they will understand.
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David Dunn said:
The downside to this is the fear.

A child cannot always distinguish the difference in the things they fear to have Dad know about and the things to not fear having Dad know about. If they are afraid of you you may be skipped over on being consulted about some very important stuff in their life that they may have otherwise consulted you about - accept for the fear.

See a movie - Invalid Link Removed
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I view that as informed, but respectfully, its naive. That's like saying that instead of fighting wars, you plan to talk things out in a spirit of friendship. Looks great on paper. A child can't always distinguish I agree. But sometimes they need to trust your judgment as well. There is a very fine line. Physical consequences, when applied correctly, are only used once. They should respect you.

I can personally attest to physical consequences working from my experiences at military school. I'm going to be honest, I believe at one point in everyone's life, they should take a beating as well as be skilled in fighting (of all types, squad tactics to boxing etc). It shows you a vulnerability in ones sense. Not only that but to understand why the battle not fought is the greatest victory. Understanding the consequences of physical conflict, not just disciplinary either. The tricky part is rebuilding yourself mentally. But it creates a sense of humility. There is something about realizing that you are not untouchable that makes you much more humble and respectful. I believe this is a big difference between past generations and today's.

As always, moderation and good judgment is required. It shouldn't be the go to punishment, nor one that has to be repeated, otherwise it is not working.
 
TexasTitan said:
As always, moderation and good judgment is required. It shouldn't be the go to punishment, nor one that has to be repeated, otherwise it is not working.
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I can attest to this. I have very few memories from my childhood where I was spanked or smacked upside the head. BC when my parents did spank me, I got the message and from then on all it took was the look or the belief that I was going to be in trouble. I think today's child psychiatrists want parents to raise their kids to be a bunch of sissies. "Never lay a finger on your kid, never tell them they're wrong, treat them like little princesses and princes" Horse Sh*t.. Teach your kids how the world really works and they'll thank you for it later.

Stop babying your children.. teach them accountability. The WORLD doesn't care one bit how sensitive you are, or how much your momy and dady love you and baby you.
 
David Dunn said:
Acceptable? Yes. Where is the point? Sincere question.

It's not the same with all children.
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it really becomes situationally (and child) dependant. My daughter knows that dad never raises his voice. It just takes a look. There is a fear there, but at the same point, that is not done often at all. If it were, I would need to reevaluate my disciplinary techniques. As a teacher it is the same for me as well. My kids at school (all 135) know I never, ever raises my voice. However, if I use proximity control, they know its time to get down to business.

In all honesty B, any sense of violence is a last resort, but it can have a positive influence. I know that I learned early where my limits were, and knew the warning signs if I approached them.
 
AE14 said:
In all honesty B, any sense of violence is a last resort, but it can have a positive influence. I know that I learned early where my limits were, and knew the warning signs if I approached them.
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I completely understand.

I was raised by a Vietnam Vet, NYC Cop, alcoholic. His fuse was short and his discipline was rarely commensurate with the offense. At the dinner table the back of his hand was often administered across my face and/or head knocking me off my chair to the floor. Public displays of his discipline were not nheard of. So much so that my friends knew what I had coming to me.

I feared my father for all the reasons anyone would fear a violent perpetrator. I had no fear of disappointing him nor did I have respect for him. I respected the fear but not the man.

I communicate and establish clear boundaries. I'll give the look and at times, when pushed, raise my voice. I spanked my 20yo twice at around 4yo and 21yo once around the same age. Never had to do so again. I've done the same with my 8yo. Both respect me and fear disappointing me.

I know the difference. I wish I did not fear the man my father was. I could have used a good Dad growing up. There is much I learned the hard way.

Parenting...:)
 
I totally understand. My father was severly beaten as a kid, and as a result was afraid of his own temper. I agree that my respect for him was not the few occassions I got smacked, but how he talked things out rationally.

The look was still frightening
 
It seems most of us have similar stories and are willing to put forth the effort to put our children first in our lives. Learning from our parents mistakes and our own is what will give our children the most rewarding lives if we follow through. Good thread.
 
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