Geoforce
Well-known member
I'm sure Blake sent many...to his own mouth!
What Is The Best Nutrient Partitioning Supplement?
- Thread starter Z28Luver7777
- Start date
I'm sure Blake sent many...to his own mouth!
bdcc
Legend
I actually agree about the rat studies. Some seem to transfer well and others do not.
I think there is an important distinction that can be made though. Anacyclus pyrethrum could have easily been written off because the research was done in rats but the AnaBeta beta test went to 20~ people on this board before it was decided to launch the product.
If other companies who had research extrapolated only from rat studies went through the same process there would be a few less supplements on the market.
I think there is an important distinction that can be made though. Anacyclus pyrethrum could have easily been written off because the research was done in rats but the AnaBeta beta test went to 20~ people on this board before it was decided to launch the product.
If other companies who had research extrapolated only from rat studies went through the same process there would be a few less supplements on the market.
bdcc
Legend
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
Pretty close, yes. Not sure how they work their conversion.
Geoforce
Well-known member
I actually agree about the rat studies. Some seem to transfer well and others do not.
I think there is an important distinction that can be made though. Anacyclus pyrethrum could have easily been written off because the research was done in rats but the AnaBeta beta test went to 20~ people on this board before it was decided to launch the product.
If other companies who had research extrapolated only from rat studies went through the same process there would be a few less supplements on the market.
Exactly. My point was it was the rat research that led to the interest in the product and then the release that showed hey this does work in humans! If PES had said well this is in rats let's not try it out because we don't know then we would be missing out on a solid product. If you're going to innovate you have to take risks, and I don't know anyone who wouldn't call Matt an innovator (or PES for that matter!)
Geoforce
Well-known member
Now I feel a bit sheepish
You gotta come to me first, not Blake. We think Blake might be good for a lot of things, we just haven't found out what yet. I need to be careful too when making fun of Matt or Blake as both could kick my ass in a heartbeat!
criticalbench
Legend
criticalbench said:
Bump!
mcc23
Active member
Well, in theory, youd be avoiding fat gain through the successful carb load..SS is gonna prevent as much insulin being secreted from the pancreas, to get the same job done of shuttling the glucose to skeletal muscle.. So less insulin to be released that could potentially be stored in adipocytes...But again, theres a differences between GDA's and NP's. NP's shuttle nutrients to muscle cells mainly, whereas GDA's just get the glucose out of the blood stream faster, with no particular specific destination, however the more muscle one has, plus assuming the muscles are in need of the glycogen, i'd theorize that it'd end up favoring storage in the muscle as opposed to fat.
jerrysiii
Member
mcc23 said:
This is still my fundamental concern with all GDAs. Where is the benefit if they do not have selectivity? Our own insulin will also clear the glucose. Is there really a benefit to clearing it more quickly? Or using less insulin?
I understand those with carb blocking characteristics in a cutting situation. But this also does no good for nutrient partitioning.
Bottom line is if these are not NPs what benefit do they truly have?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to knock on these products and I'm still hoping I'm missing something.
Geoforce
Well-known member
To an extent slintensity prevents the absorption of carbs, but it's not like it prevents all of them. I've used it for two weeks now on my carb ups with UD 2.0 and I'd say the biggest difference is less weight gain on my carb ups (water related perhaps?) and not feeling the exhaustion I usually get in terms of carb ups after going from very low carbs to high carbs. I'm not noticing any energy decrease in my workouts following the carb ups so I'd assume it's still letting me replace glycogen fairly well during this. This is what I've noticed, obviously I'd have to be very strict in monitoring everything to really hammer home the difference between a carb up without Slintensity and one with it. Don't know if that helps one bit Mike
Whacked
Well-known member
80% 4-OH Isoleucine (from Fenugreek),10% Momordin Bitter Melon Extract , Banaba 1%, Gymnema Sylvestre 75%,
Norvaline
How so?
If anything, these ingredients enhance carbohydrate absorption. Are of these ingredients all effective direct or indirect GDA's as they assist in either making the body (muscle AND fat cells) more insulin senstive (less glucose intolerant) and thus, create a more comprehensive uptake of carbs (shuttling/cramming glucose into the cells....again, fat or muscle cells).
These supps act as either insulin-sensitizers or mimickers with similar activity.
I am unaware of any of these acting like phaseolamine/white kidney bean extract products of the past that actually inhibit amylase (as an example) thereby preventing absoprtion of carbs.
Two different dynamics.
Whacked
Well-known member
Insulin is not stored in the fat cells, glucose is (once converted to fat cells of course).
What an NP?
What an NP?
Geoforce
Well-known member
Whacked
Well-known member
Thanks Geo.
Coop, got a refereence for that?
Here's what I came up with on banaba leaf extract (none of which inhibits amylase)
Banaba Leaf Extract — Is a medicinal plant that grows in India, Southeast Asia and the Philippines. Traditional uses from the leaves are as a treatment for diabetes and hyperglycemia.
The hypoglycemic (blood sugar lowering) effect of banaba leaf extract is similar to that of insulin - which induces glucose transport from the blood into body cells. The active constituent in banaba leaf extract is a particularly active glucose transport enhancer, which has been shown to allow glucose into the body cells without insulin.
In the cells, glucose can be burned for energy rather than stored as body fat. Banaba leaf extract can also help balance blood sugar levels to reduce cravings for carbohydrates and sweets.
Benefits can include:
Banaba leaf extract contains a triterpenoid compound known as corosolic acid - which has actions in stimulating glucose transport into cells. As such, banaba leaf extract plays a role in regulating levels of blood sugar and insulin in the blood. For some people, fluctuations in blood sugar and insulin are related to appetite, hunger and various food cravings - particularly craving for carbohydrates such as bread and sweets.
By keeping blood sugar and insulin levels in check, banaba leaf extract can be an effective supplement for promoting weight loss in certain individuals. The blood sugar regulating properties of banaba leaf extract have been demonstrated in cell culture, animal and human studies. In isolated cells, the active ingredient in banaba leaf extract, corosolic acid, is known to stimulate glucose uptake.
In humans with type II diabetes, banaba extract, at a dose of 16-48mg per day for 4-8 weeks, has been shown to be effective in reducing blood sugar levels (5%-30% reduction) and maintaining tighter control of blood sugar fluctuations.
An interesting "side-effect" of tighter control of blood sugar and insulin levels is a significant tendency of banaba leaf extract to promote weight loss (an average of 2-4 lbs. per month) - without significant dietary alterations. It is likely that modulation of glucose and insulin levels reduces total caloric intake somewhat and encourages moderate weight loss. (See *B -1 for References)
Coop, got a refereence for that?
Here's what I came up with on banaba leaf extract (none of which inhibits amylase)
Banaba Leaf Extract — Is a medicinal plant that grows in India, Southeast Asia and the Philippines. Traditional uses from the leaves are as a treatment for diabetes and hyperglycemia.
The hypoglycemic (blood sugar lowering) effect of banaba leaf extract is similar to that of insulin - which induces glucose transport from the blood into body cells. The active constituent in banaba leaf extract is a particularly active glucose transport enhancer, which has been shown to allow glucose into the body cells without insulin.
In the cells, glucose can be burned for energy rather than stored as body fat. Banaba leaf extract can also help balance blood sugar levels to reduce cravings for carbohydrates and sweets.
Benefits can include:
- Balances blood sugar
- Promotes healthy insulin levels
- Controls appetite and food craving (especially carbohydrate cravings) and helps promote weight loss
Banaba leaf extract contains a triterpenoid compound known as corosolic acid - which has actions in stimulating glucose transport into cells. As such, banaba leaf extract plays a role in regulating levels of blood sugar and insulin in the blood. For some people, fluctuations in blood sugar and insulin are related to appetite, hunger and various food cravings - particularly craving for carbohydrates such as bread and sweets.
By keeping blood sugar and insulin levels in check, banaba leaf extract can be an effective supplement for promoting weight loss in certain individuals. The blood sugar regulating properties of banaba leaf extract have been demonstrated in cell culture, animal and human studies. In isolated cells, the active ingredient in banaba leaf extract, corosolic acid, is known to stimulate glucose uptake.
In humans with type II diabetes, banaba extract, at a dose of 16-48mg per day for 4-8 weeks, has been shown to be effective in reducing blood sugar levels (5%-30% reduction) and maintaining tighter control of blood sugar fluctuations.
An interesting "side-effect" of tighter control of blood sugar and insulin levels is a significant tendency of banaba leaf extract to promote weight loss (an average of 2-4 lbs. per month) - without significant dietary alterations. It is likely that modulation of glucose and insulin levels reduces total caloric intake somewhat and encourages moderate weight loss. (See *B -1 for References)
mr.cooper69
Legend
Nor the best IMO.Anyway whacked. gymnema is a very well documented glucose blocker.EDIT: It's getting to the point that I can't even post on AM anymore due to the hassle and glitches. gonna have to make separate posts for banaba
mr.cooper69
Legend
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mr.cooper69
Legend
Invalid Link Removed
mr.cooper69
Legend
That article you copied and pasted is awful by the way. Don't believe everything you read on the net. No references = no bueno
Geoforce
Well-known member
Been working fine for me. You gotta figure out what's going on Coop, we can't have you not posting on AM!
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
(oleanolic acid, arjunolic acid, asiatic acid, maslinic acid, corosolic acid and 23-hydroxyursolic acid)
You will see these back in my future products, as isolated extracts.
mr.cooper69
Legend
I'm most interested in 1 and 6.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
I'll leave 6 to PA, since he has already gone that direction.
criticalbench
Legend
To an extent slintensity prevents the absorption of carbs, but it's not like it prevents all of them. I've used it for two weeks now on my carb ups with UD 2.0 and I'd say the biggest difference is less weight gain on my carb ups (water related perhaps?) and not feeling the exhaustion I usually get in terms of carb ups after going from very low carbs to high carbs. I'm not noticing any energy decrease in my workouts following the carb ups so I'd assume it's still letting me replace glycogen fairly well during this. This is what I've noticed, obviously I'd have to be very strict in monitoring everything to really hammer home the difference between a carb up without Slintensity and one with it. Don't know if that helps one bit Mike
Solid post bro, appreciate it. Ill stick with r-ala for my carb up, and slintensity for pct!
MAxximal
Well-known member
plus Gallic acid too (induces GLUT4 translocation and glucose uptake activity)
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
The future products will not be glucose centered, necessarily.
mcc23
Active member
Yes, I apologize thats what I meant. NP is a nutrient partitioner
Whacked
Well-known member
No Sweat bro. Im still confused - are there NP's on the market that preferentially direct glucose to muscle as stated in your previous post?
mcc23
Active member
That seems to be the million dollar question. Most products are GDA's but claim to have NP properties..Na-R-ala is often advertised as a NP but I believe that it's more of a GDA. I just got some Slin Sane v2 which is marketed as a NP. It has Na-R-Ala in it, as well as a few other "NP's". I suppose the best way to tell whether or not they're effective GDA/NP's is through using them. The label is intended to "sell" you..Trial and error is likely the best method.
I've felt hypoglycemia from my Na-R-Ala when I take ~300 mg before carb meals so that leads me to believe it's effective at mimicking insulin and clearing and glucose that may be present in the blood stream. Whether or not that glucose is being stored as glycogen or in the adipose tissue is something that needs to be observed in the mirror after some time. Since using it, my waistline has stayed the same size and scale hasn't really jumped, but I definitely look larger in the mirror.This is usually upon waking, not after a massive carb-up where an increase in fullness is expected..
Cooper usually has some solid input with matters such as these.. Perhaps he'd be willing to further advise you/us..
jerrysiii
Member
My take on these so far is that there are basically two different types of GDAs. 1) Mimicks of insulin that clear glucose for the blood. 2) "Carb blockers" that stop carbohydrate from ever entering the blood.
IMO, the first type are best used when lean bulking and even then best used post workout. I do not buy into using these with a high carb meal or other "cheat" meal outside of the PO window. There is no evidence that they would be useful simply because they are not selective to muscle cells. On the other hand, post-workout muscles are ready and insulin itself will be selective in this environment. I am using Slin-Sane V2 for this purpose -- just started two days ago. I'm taking one cap right after workout and 15 mins later eating 60gm protein and 100gm carbs. In other words, use this type of GDA as an advanced bodybuilder would use actual insulin.
The GDAs that contain "carb blockers" would be better suited for cutting. Simply use before highest carb meal of the day. If on a very low carb diet, wait for your carb-up.
Anyway that's may take after reading this thread. I welcome the input of the experts.
IMO, the first type are best used when lean bulking and even then best used post workout. I do not buy into using these with a high carb meal or other "cheat" meal outside of the PO window. There is no evidence that they would be useful simply because they are not selective to muscle cells. On the other hand, post-workout muscles are ready and insulin itself will be selective in this environment. I am using Slin-Sane V2 for this purpose -- just started two days ago. I'm taking one cap right after workout and 15 mins later eating 60gm protein and 100gm carbs. In other words, use this type of GDA as an advanced bodybuilder would use actual insulin.
The GDAs that contain "carb blockers" would be better suited for cutting. Simply use before highest carb meal of the day. If on a very low carb diet, wait for your carb-up.
Anyway that's may take after reading this thread. I welcome the input of the experts.
mcc23
Active member
IMO I'd skip the one cap immediately post workout.You said it yourself that your body is most insulin sensitive post workout.. Our bodies trans locate the Glut-4 in skeletal muscle post workout, and remains at the plasma membrane for up to 4-5 hours post workout.. I'd still take 1 cap w/ 2nd post workout meal, however.
jerrysiii
Member
You may be right. However, from my research it looks like the guys that use real insulin do so predominantly post-workout. I figure if these compounds mimic exogenous insulin, I want to use them in the same manner. Also, I would normally only have 40gm of carbs post-workout. I've bumped this up to 100.
Outstanding
Well-known member
Is there any type of consensus whatsoever on the worthiness of looking into Slintensity? Invalid Link Removed
I am surprised over the years virtually no one other than one or two mom-and-pop private label companies have offered 4-OH. I've tried everything out there, and that's not an overstatement, literally everything. I have yet to try some of the new product from the last year or two, really enjoyed Recompadrol and kind of stopped looking elsewhere.
Question: Why are companies lately favoring Banaba 1% over the much more potent 20% that companies have used for a few years now? Is it just cheaper and they're hoping we don't notice, or has some new research emerged showing an inferior standardization is somehow better?
I am surprised over the years virtually no one other than one or two mom-and-pop private label companies have offered 4-OH. I've tried everything out there, and that's not an overstatement, literally everything. I have yet to try some of the new product from the last year or two, really enjoyed Recompadrol and kind of stopped looking elsewhere.
Question: Why are companies lately favoring Banaba 1% over the much more potent 20% that companies have used for a few years now? Is it just cheaper and they're hoping we don't notice, or has some new research emerged showing an inferior standardization is somehow better?
Geoforce
Well-known member
Below is some of our initial feedback. Been very positive and I haven't seen a negative word yet. Keep in mind no other product has 4-OH at an 80% extract like we are offering. Slintensity+GlycoMyx for under 30 dollars right now is an insane deal that is almost up.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
The 20% banaba is standardized ONLY for corosolic acid. If you head up the thread a bit, you will see the reason why....the other compounds contained are valuable.
mcc23
Active member
Honestly, I'd like to know if all these pre-made blends of GDA's/NP's are really significantly better than a respectable dose of Na-R-ala. Considering the cost/benefit. Of course someone who is selling the product will always say the blend is better, but honestly it carries a little bias in my opinion. No offense, but it's just reality. Until we can see scientific evidence that all these products act mainly as a nutrient partition-er, and not just as an insulin mimicker, it'll be trial and error to find what really works.
wastedwhiteboy2
Board Supporter
Sounds like the NP's shuttle glycogen to muscles but decrease insulin sensitivity and the GDA's shuttle glycogen out of the bloodstream to either muscle or fat but increases insulin sensitivity. So neither are really helping us unless the GDA's can specifiy muscle uptake.
Whacked
Well-known member
MANY of these questions/issues have been belabored to death on this GREAT THREAD
Invalid Link Removed
That said, I still remained unconvinced after all the excellent insight and info applied to the thread that ANY supp has the ability PREFERENTIALLY shuttle nutrients into the muscle cells verses fat cells (in an UN-exercised state).
Invalid Link Removed
That said, I still remained unconvinced after all the excellent insight and info applied to the thread that ANY supp has the ability PREFERENTIALLY shuttle nutrients into the muscle cells verses fat cells (in an UN-exercised state).
Geoforce
Well-known member
Why not compare? Try Slintensity while it is super cheap and comes with free GlycoMyx. If you feel it was a waste of money I'll send you a product from us from my own personal stash free of charge. I haven't seen anyone say anything negative about it in terms of being the strongest GDA out there or regretting their purchase. All our feedback has been from people who have bought their own bottle as we haven't had any logs yet so the feedback isn't tainted by confirmation bias.
Outstanding
Well-known member
Thanks for the help, I've always been a fan of 4-OH which is why I've been so confused why it was so hard for years, and even now, to find in the marketplace? I know other companies make it, but it's always 20-40% extract I believe, so it's great to see a higher potency.
Can I please ask why the 1% banaba though? I've always reached for products with 20%, but perhaps higher isn't always better regarding specific constituents of the herb, I'm not sure, but would love some insight because pairing a 80% 4-OH extract with a 1% seemed odd to me, thanks again. (EDIT: My assumptions were right, I see someone already answered this question, thanks)
PS: (Question for everyone) Out of the ridiculous amount of 'designer carb' choices out there today from almost everyone, Gaspari/VPX/Professional Supplements/Labrada etc etc etc... I've long ruled out Vitargo because those morons have a patent monopoly and charge laughable prices, but what would be the best 2 choices for DURING WORKOUT, AND POST WORKOUT for the most intense energy/pump support and insulin spike, and why?
Torobestia
Well-known member
Damn Outstanding, when did you pop your head back in here?
A simple answer to your question is that banaba has a lot of interesting constituents in it. When you standardize for corosolic acid, you eliminate the concentration of the other constituents in your supplement. What are some known ingredients in banaba extract? See below:
A simple answer to your question is that banaba has a lot of interesting constituents in it. When you standardize for corosolic acid, you eliminate the concentration of the other constituents in your supplement. What are some known ingredients in banaba extract? See below:
There is some discussion at the bottom of page 6 continuing into page 7 to answer your question in detail. Evidently, corosolic acid is a small player in banaba extract, and there could be far more interesting things in it. I'd suggest you go back to read up on the discussion, follow the links, etc.
Outstanding
Well-known member
Haha, hey man! I stop in maybe once or twice a month, rarely post, still catching up on new career and getting ready for other life changes as I look toward graduating from my roaring twenties.
Thanks so much for your help!
Z28Luver7777
Well-known member
Any updates regarding this thread?
AntM1564
Legend
Z28Luver7777
Some of the products talked about in this thread are discontinued, but there are some newer products that work just as well and some even better.
SlinMax is worth looking into. The ingredients in Slinmax help users utilize carbs better. For example, Na-R-ALA also reduces blood sugar and improves glycogen storage thanks to its actions with GLUT-4 (an important glucose transporter in the body)
Berberine activates Adenosine Monophosphate-Activated Protein Kinase (AMPK) while inhibiting Protein-Tyrosine Phosphatase 1B (PTP1B). AMPK activation improves insulin sensitivity and glucose transport in the body.
Agmatine improves glucose uptake and insulin sensitivity of skeletal muscles.and glucose uptake in skeletal muscle tissue. Agmatine stimulates the release of beta-endorphin (β-endorphin) that helps move glucose out of the bloodstream and into muscle tissue. This also helps with muscle fullness and pumps.
Nutriverse also has 20% off SlinMax until the 8th.