Virile Mane - Hair anyone?

TTO. . short for Tea Tree Oil.

I guess im in a tough spot because I've been using super zix as indicated for almost 5 months now and I'd hate to quit on that prior to the six month mark. . .

The adenogen topical is way too pricey but I have a friend who gets 30% off because she is a hairdresser. . should I continue the use of the adensoine and cut off the Zix?

Also Im going to get a buzz cut soon at a #2 so i can get this stuff to my scalp. . I have diffuse thinning and NW 3 temples how much should I apply at each application. . Is VM supposed to help with diffuse thinning?
 
ValiantINC said:
TTO. . short for Tea Tree Oil.

I guess im in a tough spot because I've been using super zix as indicated for almost 5 months now and I'd hate to quit on that prior to the six month mark. . .

The adenogen topical is way too pricey but I have a friend who gets 30% off because she is a hairdresser. . should I continue the use of the adensoine and cut off the Zix?

Also Im going to get a buzz cut soon at a #2 so i can get this stuff to my scalp. . I have diffuse thinning and NW 3 temples how much should I apply at each application. . Is VM supposed to help with diffuse thinning?
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Be careful with TTO - I have seen reports of systemic estrogenic side effects being pretty potent.

Looking at the ingredient profile, IMO the Adenogen product is far superior on paper. However, nothing in there should be pricey at all - curious, what does it run?

VM works on each follicle that it comes into contact with. As long as you are applying and rubbing into the scalp in the areas where you are thinning (whether a concentrated area, or spread over a wider area) then it will help.
 
Well I think it's overpriced soley because it's a sheseido(sp?) product(50$ approx per month). Dermenodex(follica.com) contains adenosine as well but the ingredients include caffeine which is an antagonist to the ingredient adenosine. That is only 20$ a month and people have reported it thickens up thier hair but i didnt want to risk the caffeine negating the effects of the key ingredient. . .

My MAIN concern was whether or not the adenogen would interefere or corrupt the mechanism of the VM. . .which from what it seems so far would be a NO correct?

Also I understand that the application amount is vital for the VM. How much to cover my temples and entire top of my head should i apply Dsade?

I've noticed my hair has changed color in the last 1.5 years from a dark solid brown to a light color brown and some hairs blonde even. . I've shed many hair in that time as well. Hoping this can reverse some of the damage
 
ValiantINC said:
Well I think it's overpriced soley because it's a sheseido(sp?) product(50$ approx per month). Dermenodex(follica.com) contains adenosine as well but the ingredients include caffeine which is an antagonist to the ingredient adenosine. That is only 20$ a month and people have reported it thickens up thier hair but i didnt want to risk the caffeine negating the effects of the key ingredient. . .

My MAIN concern was whether or not the adenogen would interefere or corrupt the mechanism of the VM. . .which from what it seems so far would be a NO correct?

Also I understand that the application amount is vital for the VM. How much to cover my temples and entire top of my head should i apply Dsade?

I've noticed my hair has changed color in the last 1.5 years from a dark solid brown to a light color brown and some hairs blonde even. . I've shed many hair in that time as well. Hoping this can reverse some of the damage
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there should not be any conflict between the Adenogen and VM.

For application, the VM spreads VERY well. a THIN coating is all that is needed. For each temple area (probably about 2 square inches) a half a pea sized glop is all that I need.

The initial sensation of rubbing it in is slippery, so you can tell what areas you have covered, then as it absorbs the feel will start to resist your finger rubbing into your scalp. This means you have rubbed in enough and you can change spots.

When you get inside of your head (not the hairline) use the tip of the dispenser to part your hair - spread the part open and run a VERY thin bead across the part. Keeping your hair parted, rub your finger up and down the part.

I'm very happy with the package design and consistency of the product, as it prevents waste and makes the product go a LONG time (unlike watery products that run all over the place).
 
ValiantINC said:
Well I think it's overpriced soley because it's a sheseido(sp?) product(50$ approx per month). Dermenodex(follica.com) contains adenosine as well but the ingredients include caffeine which is an antagonist to the ingredient adenosine. That is only 20$ a month and people have reported it thickens up thier hair but i didnt want to risk the caffeine negating the effects of the key ingredient. . .

My MAIN concern was whether or not the adenogen would interefere or corrupt the mechanism of the VM. . .which from what it seems so far would be a NO correct?

Also I understand that the application amount is vital for the VM. How much to cover my temples and entire top of my head should i apply Dsade?

I've noticed my hair has changed color in the last 1.5 years from a dark solid brown to a light color brown and some hairs blonde even. . I've shed many hair in that time as well. Hoping this can reverse some of the damage
Click to expand...

I'm on my 6th month of adenogen right now. It does work a little as far as thickening the existing hair. It runs about $66 dollars per month. Where are you getting it for $50? I have never seen it that cheap. When it first came out in 2004 it ran about $85 dollars a month btw.

I really don't think it is worth even $50 per month. I was just going to drop it for VM, but maybe I will continue with it awhile. Have you guys ever scene the double-blind placebo controlled test on adenosine? It really is not that impressive.
 
dsade said:
Be careful with TTO - I have seen reports of systemic estrogenic side effects being pretty potent.

Looking at the ingredient profile, IMO the Adenogen product is far superior on paper. However, nothing in there should be pricey at all - curious, what does it run?

VM works on each follicle that it comes into contact with. As long as you are applying and rubbing into the scalp in the areas where you are thinning (whether a concentrated area, or spread over a wider area) then it will help.
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dsade,

Never the less, I think you should consider putting adenosine in VM. It might help the formula work even better.
 
BuffaloBilly said:
dsade,

Never the less, I think you should consider putting adenosine in VM. It might help the formula work even better.
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I totally,100% DISAGREE !

The last thing we need is a formula change now that it *appears* to be working so well for everyone. If it ain't broke don't fix it.


PLEASE LEAVE THE FORMULA ALONE !!

As mentioned earlier in the thread, i also couldn't agree more that nearly every new product has new users that claim great results only to slowly slide into oblivion and never be heard of again.

History says this will repeat here as well. I certainly hope not as i received my order 3 days ago so would like this to be the exception.

Sadly, after only 3 days use along my hairline i can report huge shedding and drying out of my hair. Its easily the worst its ever been. There is no question its the VM as my hairloss had stabilised the past 3 months and i've lost loads of hair at the front where i've been applying the VM. This has been really upsetting for me as i was invited to a friends dinner and accepted knowing my hair was looking ok....until i applied the VM. i sat across from them knowing that my transplants were visible. It was a HORRIBLE night.

Looking on the more positive side (i have to as the alternative is very depressing), i have never had any product cause such a quick and viscious shed in so little time before so it *may* be because this is *very* effective and could explain the quick results others are claiming on here.

Or....it could be just another snake-oil destined for the bin.

My hopes are with a successful product obviously but i have been around far too long to get my hopes up this early in the game.

BB
 
bigbollox keep us informed. i hope you see new hairs soon.

i tried this stuff last night and i worked into above my hairline since im a diffused thinner. and man it made a mess, even the next morning i could see this stuff on my scalp, i took a shower and my hair was a bad texture, and i can still see a few blotchs. :(
 
grove12345 said:
bigbollox keep us informed. i hope you see new hairs soon.

i tried this stuff last night and i worked into above my hairline since im a diffused thinner. and man it made a mess, even the next morning i could see this stuff on my scalp, i took a shower and my hair was a bad texture, and i can still see a few blotchs. :(
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You're using too much.

VERY small amount is all that's necessary.
 
Another small update...the small black dots I reported earlier in this thread have basicaly turned into "goosebump" like dots on my head. AS a diffuse thinner it is basically showing all over my head. I hope this is a good sign. This of course , is happening after aperiod of shed...that eventually stopped. There is a small amount of shed going on now but I am not sure if I could call it a shed due to the fact I only notice hairs in my hand after rubbing in VM very hard on my scalp. Therefore it could be normal. Thats all for now.
 
bigbollox said:
I totally,100% DISAGREE !

The last thing we need is a formula change now that it *appears* to be working so well for everyone. If it ain't broke don't fix it.


PLEASE LEAVE THE FORMULA ALONE !!

As mentioned earlier in the thread, i also couldn't agree more that nearly every new product has new users that claim great results only to slowly slide into oblivion and never be heard of again.

History says this will repeat here as well. I certainly hope not as i received my order 3 days ago so would like this to be the exception.

Sadly, after only 3 days use along my hairline i can report huge shedding and drying out of my hair. Its easily the worst its ever been. There is no question its the VM as my hairloss had stabilised the past 3 months and i've lost loads of hair at the front where i've been applying the VM. This has been really upsetting for me as i was invited to a friends dinner and accepted knowing my hair was looking ok....until i applied the VM. i sat across from them knowing that my transplants were visible. It was a HORRIBLE night.

Looking on the more positive side (i have to as the alternative is very depressing), i have never had any product cause such a quick and viscious shed in so little time before so it *may* be because this is *very* effective and could explain the quick results others are claiming on here.

Or....it could be just another snake-oil destined for the bin.

My hopes are with a successful product obviously but i have been around far too long to get my hopes up this early in the game.

BB
Click to expand...
BB -

I have no intention of changing the formula. As mentioned, we covered a list of different possible compounds - and this angle was one of them - but the evidence just is not strong enough at this time to include them.

While I don't discourage others from exploring the other angles, as far as a product goes, we kept the formula with proven (or at least highly supported) ingredient and kept the price reasonable. I'm not going to start adding in a bunch more (which WILL raise the price) with only tenuous evidence at best.

Virile Mane will stand or fall based on what it is now.
 
SgtRotti said:
Another small update...the small black dots I reported earlier in this thread have basicaly turned into "goosebump" like dots on my head. AS a diffuse thinner it is basically showing all over my head. I hope this is a good sign. This of course , is happening after aperiod of shed...that eventually stopped. There is a small amount of shed going on now but I am not sure if I could call it a shed due to the fact I only notice hairs in my hand after rubbing in VM very hard on my scalp. Therefore it could be normal. Thats all for now.
Click to expand...


Are you sure your not experiencing an allergic reaction of sorts, e.g., dermatitis?
 
BuffaloBilly said:
Are you sure your not experiencing an allergic reaction of sorts, e.g., dermatitis?
Click to expand...

pretty sure....I don;t think it would have taken a month to become allergic..also, they look like new follicles pushing through...looks encouraging. I do not experiance and itching or redness or any kind of allergic reaction so I think I am pretty safe.
 
SgtRotti said:
pretty sure....I don;t think it would have taken a month to become allergic..also, they look like new follicles pushing through...looks encouraging. I do not experiance and itching or redness or any kind of allergic reaction so I think I am pretty safe.
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Dermatitis is pretty miserable to experience. You would know.
 
Dasde-two quick questions- I know its not needed, but if I wanted more lather, could I just add a little java lather on my hands before applying java lustre?Also, how is the Java Conditioner comin?
 
phantom said:
Dasde-two quick questions- I know its not needed, but if I wanted more lather, could I just add a little java lather on my hands before applying java lustre?Also, how is the Java Conditioner comin?
Click to expand...
Yep...I actually use the Java Lather on my head for a quick lather up first. It doesn't strip at all.

Conditioner is looking better and better Cococin arrived today...

Also going to be included:

High Polyphenol Cocoa extract
Shea Butter
Green Coffee Bean extract
Multiple Fruit extracts
Actual Coffee Extract


Rest are secret, but there are about 5 more cool ingredients.; The conditioner base itself is impressive, but the actives are going to make it top of the line.

Waiting on 2 more ingredients that will be here Monday, and deciding if I want to use tubes or the same bottles as the Java Lustre.
 
Hey dsade,

I stopped using hair conditioner awhile back because i read (and noticed) that something that is commonly in hair conditioners can really aggravate back acne.

I think it might have been Propylene Glycol or Panthenol. I can't remember exactly.
 
scottyc33 said:
Hey dsade,

I stopped using hair conditioner awhile back because i read (and noticed) that something that is commonly in hair conditioners can really aggravate back acne.

I think it might have been Propylene Glycol or Panthenol. I can't remember exactly.
Click to expand...
Never heard that about either ingredient. PG can sometimes irritate, but panthenol is actually used as a treatment for acne (as a form of b5).
 
dsade said:
Never heard that about either ingredient. PG can sometimes irritate, but panthenol is actually used as a treatment for acne (as a form of b5).
Click to expand...

I'll see if I can find where I read that. It had something to do with with the fact that the ingredient is used to help coat the hair and can therefore also clog pores.
 
I found this list: It has propylene glycol monostearate listed.


Do not use cosmetics OR hair products that contain pore-clogging ingredients. These ingredients cause microcomedomes to form in certain individuals resulting in various lesions ranging from clogged pores and blackheads to inflammatory pustules. If you have doubts about yours, check the ingredient listing.

Some of the most common ones are: Isopropyl myristate, cetyl alcohol, sodium lauryl sulfate, laureth-4, natural Vitamin E, most natural oils, cocoa butter and D & C red dyes all agitate acne.

Even the prescription acne medication Retin-A (in the cream form) has one of the worst offenders - isopropyl myristate. You can't trust anyone, not even doctors!! Be your own advocate for your skin and check the ingredients.

If you have acne on your body and/or near your hairline, be sure and check your hair products, especially hair rinses that leave a residue on the hair. Always wash your body after rinsing out your hair rinse to make sure there is no residual hair rinse left on your body.

I know that this is a long list, but do your homework. There are sooo many pore clogging products out there - and some things on this list will surprise you. Many "natural" oils will clog your pores, like cocoa butter and coconut oil. They have a very small molecular structure that clogs the pores (if you are acne prone).

The List:
Acetylated Lanolin
Acetylated Lanolin Alcohol
Algae Extract
Algin
Butyl Stearate
Carrageenan
Cetearyl Alcohol + Ceteareth 20
Cocoa Butter
Coconut Butter
Coconut Oil
Colloidal Sulfur
Corn Oil
Cotton Seed Oil
Crisco
D & C Red # 17
D & C Red # 21
D & C Red # 3
D & C Red # 30
D & C Red # 36
Decyl Oleate
Disodium Monooleamido PEG 2-Sulfosuccinate
Ethoxylated Lanolin
Ethylhexyl Palmitate
Glyceryl Stearate SE
Glyceryl-3-Diisostearate
Hexadecyl Alcohol
Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil
Isocetyl Stearate
Isodecyl Oleate
Isopropyl Isosterate
Isopropyl Myristate
Isopropyl Palmitate
Isostearyl Isostearate
Isostearyl Neopentanoate
Laureth-23
Laureth-4
Lauric Acid
Mink Oil
Myristic Acid
Myristic Acid
Myristyl Lactate
Myristyl Myristate
Octyl Palmitate
Octyl Stearate
Oleth-3
Oleyl Alcohol
PEG 16 Lanolin
PEG 200 Dilaurate
PEG 8 Stearate
PPG 2 Myristyl Propionate
Polyglyceryl-3-Diisostearate
Potassium Chloride
Propylene Glycol Monostearate
Red Algae
Shark Liver Oil
Sodium Laureth Sulfate
Sodium Lauryl Sulfate
Solulan 16
Sorbitan Oleate
Sorbitan Sesquinoleate
Soybean Oil
Steareth 10
Stearic Acid Tea
Stearyl Heptanoate
Sulfated Castor Oil
Sulfated Jojoba Oil
Syearyl Heptanoate
Wheat Germ Glyceride
Wheat Germ Oil
Xylene
 
Is there a difference, between the virale manes, in different releases. I got some from nutra right away and it is a brighter yellow color and the one i got form another place just now is a little more brown???/

Maybe im just being crazy and there are no differences
 
Dsade - would this help with a slight receeding hair line? I'm starting to note some - don't know if it's aggrevated by PH use or not. Both sides of the fam. have some males with receeding hair lines.
 
grove12345 said:
wtf sgt tell your hair to grow faster. i want to know if those goose bumps are new hairs.
Click to expand...


Well, my hair and I have been chatting lately and hopefully we have come to an agreement that it will grow faster and regorw new hair! lol (jk)

Its actually kind of neat to watch...Every other day I will look and the bumps become more noticable . I have a strong feeling it is new hair because I cannot see it being anything else.

Maybe I could ask my hair to come home for the holidays!!! :)

lets hope for the best!!
 
SgtRotti said:
Well, my hair and I have been chatting lately and hopefully we have come to an agreement that it will grow faster and regorw new hair! lol (jk)

Its actually kind of neat to watch...Every other day I will look and the bumps become more noticable . I have a strong feeling it is new hair because I cannot see it being anything else.

Maybe I could ask my hair to come home for the holidays!!! :)

lets hope for the best!!
Click to expand...

Can you take a picture?

Want to make sure you don't has fleas.

:whip:
 
jmh80 said:
Can you take a picture?

Want to make sure you don't has fleas.

:whip:
Click to expand...


Thats a good idea. I may have fleas , however my 130lbs rottweiler doesn;t have them. Wouldn;t he get them first??lol

I will try and take pics , but they never seem to come out right or get close enough to see. I'll give it another go.


*edit* I just tried again, the camera I have is useless for this kind of close up. The bumps are small and the camera is crap. It just turns out to be a blurr of hair...sry , I will try and get a better camera.
 
jmh80 said:
Dsade - would this help with a slight receeding hair line?
Click to expand...

Virile Mane does what it does, mostly via local release of IGF-1. It doesn't know if you have a slight or a serious case. It doesn't care about your feelings. It doesn't care if you met a wonderful girl last friday. Dude, it doesn't even care if you met another dude last friday. Depressing indifference or what :afro:


It should have a positive effect in most people though.
 
grove12345 said:
anyone think copper peptides will be the ultimate kicker. i also heard with recent study it has anti DHT powers.
Click to expand...

Well. Virile mane dyes your hair somewhat reddish brown. But copper peptides dye it yellow-green and this sticks permanently, you can't wash it off, ever. So you have to shave your hair to try them. I never gave them a fair chance. The short period that I tried brought no miracles. No immediate miracles with VM either, I just have to wait and see.
 
grove12345; said:
anyone think copper peptides will be the ultimate kicker. i also heard with recent study it has anti DHT powers.
Click to expand...
I am not sure, if copper peptides have that magic touch, stand-alone. Like zinc sulfate, they appear to have anti-androgenic properties and stimulate production of so-called endothelium-derived relaxing factor (EDRF) or nitric oxide. I suspect, however, that the use of copper peptides in hair-regrowth formulas is protected by patent. Besides, Virile Mane appears to have ingredients with an equivalent property.
 
A question that I have not seen asked before...

I find that when I apply VM in the hairline area, I immediately break out in a sweat in that area (that being where I apply it first). This happens consistently, evening after evening. I do not note that it does so when I apply it to the sides or crown.

I guess the question is multi-part:

Anyone else experience this?

Any plausible reason for this?

Any potential problem with this (with regard to VM's effects)?
 
Shay4 said:
Hi Dsade
Can You please tell me waht is the exact amount of zinc in Noxidant ? 10mg or 50mg?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Noxidant:

Serving Size: 3 Capsules
Servings per Container: 30


Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
Gamma-Tocopherol 500 mg **
Selenium (yeilding 200 mcg Selenium) 100 mg **
Alpha Lipoic Acid 100 mg **
Grape Seed Extract 200 mg **
Green Tea Extract (50%) 300 mg **
Quercetin 200 mg **
Apple Polyphenols 300 mg **
Zinc Aspartate (20%) (standardized to 10 mg zinc) 50 mg **
Copper Gluconate (20%) (yielding 100 mcg copper) 500 mcg **
Manganese Chelate-(20%) (yielding .2 mg Manganese) 1 mg **
Vitamin C 250 mg **

Invalid Link Removed
 
blind12 said:
Well. Virile mane dyes your hair somewhat reddish brown. But copper peptides dye it yellow-green and this sticks permanently, you can't wash it off, ever. So you have to shave your hair to try them. I never gave them a fair chance. The short period that I tried brought no miracles. No immediate miracles with VM either, I just have to wait and see.
Click to expand...

no my friend i used folligen, a heavy copper peptide hair product and there are plenty others. its green, and washes off easier than this stuff.
 
Jack of Shadows said:
A question that I have not seen asked before...

I find that when I apply VM in the hairline area, I immediately break out in a sweat in that area (that being where I apply it first). This happens consistently, evening after evening. I do not note that it does so when I apply it to the sides or crown.

I guess the question is multi-part:

Anyone else experience this?

Any plausible reason for this?

Any potential problem with this (with regard to VM's effects)?
Click to expand...
I don't personally get this, but Rk's being structurally and chemically related to capsaicin would make sense if you are sensitive.

I don't see any potential problems, provided you are rubbing it in well.
 
Sounds like an excellent reason for it, even though I would not have known I was sensitive to capsaicin. Strange it does not seem to happen elsewhere on the scalp, just in the hairline area, but I do rub it on well.

Thanks.
 
Here's a closeup from 5 minutes ago. Light is wrong to duplicate the angle of the last pics, but compared to 12-08 (also posted) you can see new growth.
Invalid Link Removed

Also, if you can make out the black dots, they are confirmed new hairs coming in.


12/08

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Right side, today

Invalid Link Removed
 
good to hear.

how long before you started seeing new growth

how often do you want me to snap pics?
 
Outside Backer said:
good to hear.

how long before you started seeing new growth

how often do you want me to snap pics?
Click to expand...
I started seeing new growth pretty quickly (within 10 days).

Pics every 10-14 days should be plenty often.
 
grove12345 said:
no my friend i used folligen, a heavy copper peptide hair product and there are plenty others. its green, and washes off easier than this stuff.
Click to expand...

I used Folligen too, and I had to grow it out, it did NOT wash off whatever I tried. My hair is fairly blond, maybe yours is dark and doesn't show the green tinge so obviously.
 
awesome results dasde but if only i can see pics of people who are the customers, as wells as x1 a day users, i would be more happy
 
grove12345 said:
awesome results dasde but if only i can see pics of people who are the customers, as wells as x1 a day users, i would be more happy
Click to expand...
i understand and could not agree more. It's almost like asking women to post pics of their cellulite, it seems...just the ultimate touchy subject.

I posted mine once I realized that this was going to be like pulling teeth. I have offered some incentive..so let's hope we get more participants soon....there are over 1000 bottles out there already.
 
I've got a very slight receding hair line. I may give it a shot Dsade. Thing is - can only tell when I have my hair spiked. So I have no idea how long it's been going on (if PH related or genetics - Dad had receding hairline).
 
dsade said:
i understand and could not agree more. It's almost like asking women to post pics of their cellulite, it seems...just the ultimate touchy subject.

I posted mine once I realized that this was going to be like pulling teeth. I have offered some incentive..so let's hope we get more participants soon....there are over 1000 bottles out there already.
Click to expand...

Not me, I dont see what the big deal is, Im balding, not my fault. I'm more emberassed about being a former fatty, at least I had control over that.
 
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