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Virile Mane - Hair anyone?

Cellular/Molecular
Bimodal Action of Menthol on the Transient Receptor Potential Channel TRPA1

Yuji Karashima, * Nils Damann, * Jean Prenen, Karel Talavera, Andrei Segal, Thomas Voets, and Bernd Nilius

Laboratorium voor Fysiologie, Campus Gasthuisberg, Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, B-3000 Leuven, Belgium

Correspondence should be addressed to Nils Damann, Department of Physiology, Campus Gasthuisberg, Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, Herestraat 49, B-3000 Leuven, Belgium. Email: [email protected]

TRPA1 is a calcium-permeable nonselective cation transient receptor potential (TRP) channel that functions as an excitatory ionotropic receptor in nociceptive neurons. TRPA1 is robustly activated by pungent substances in mustard oil, cinnamon, and garlic and mediates the inflammatory actions of environmental irritants and proalgesic agents. Here, we demonstrate a bimodal sensitivity of TRPA1 to menthol, a widely used cooling agent and known activator of the related cold receptor TRPM8. In whole-cell and single-channel recordings of heterologously expressed TRPA1, submicromolar to low-micromolar concentrations of menthol cause channel activation, whereas higher concentrations lead to a reversible channel block. In addition, we provide evidence for TRPA1-mediated menthol responses in mustard oil-sensitive trigeminal ganglion neurons. Our data indicate that TRPA1 is a highly sensitive menthol receptor that very likely contributes to the diverse psychophysical sensations after topical application of menthol to the skin or mucous membranes of the oral and nasal cavities.

Menthol's action on a different sensory nerve type. (granted ganglial cells and oral/nasal mucosal membranes are different than scalp, but the different nerve types are also expressed in scalp and follicular tissue.


By the way...I was asked to design something that will INHIBIT hair growth. Expounding on the theme here, using a mechanism of depletion of CGRP, I think I found a compound combination that might work. It won't be a depilatory, but once the hair is removed (perhaps by waxing) it SHOULD significantly slow regrowth.
 
dsade said:
...By the way...I was asked to design something that will INHIBIT hair growth. Expounding on the theme here, using a mechanism of depletion of CGRP, I think I found a compound combination that might work. It won't be a depilatory, but once the hair is removed (perhaps by waxing) it SHOULD significantly slow regrowth.
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That should be interesting. There are a currently a few products in this category, but they are comparatively very expensive.
 
dsade said:
By the way...I was asked to design something that will INHIBIT hair growth. Expounding on the theme here, using a mechanism of depletion of CGRP, I think I found a compound combination that might work. It won't be a depilatory, but once the hair is removed (perhaps by waxing) it SHOULD significantly slow regrowth.
Click to expand...


I think something like that would also sell well if it worked... I would love to get rid of a couple of random patches of hair. Shame I can't get them attached to my head instead lol.
 
EIC said:
Very nice, Dsade. You have definitely piqued my interest. Any chance we can get a look at the inactive ingredients (I am mainly curious about parabens)?
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We're trying our best to avoid parabens. We have alternate baceteriocides/fungicides that we prefer to use.
 
dsade said:
Just a side note adding my opinions - anyone on minox that drops it for this might be in for a rough ride for a couple of months. Minox dependant hairs will shed when you stop and even this stuff is unlikely to be able to stop that (the only thing in there that could theoretically is the RK's but i've yet to see evidence of anything that actually will)... they may well grow back just as thick with the help of virile mane but it would unlikely be quick enough to counter the shedding. It might be wise to figure out some sort of phasing in/out process.
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In regards to this:
dsade, Do you think a sufficient phase in/out process would be to start VM at 1x / day and continue to use minox 2x / day for 2 weeks, then VM 2x / day and minox 1x / day for 2 more wks, and finally VM 2x / day and minox EOD for 2 wks?

I'm just trying to devise a phase in/out and am interested in your opinion. I'm actually not even sure if the question of whether or not VM is a 2x / day application was answered.

Also, I am quite surprised (disappointed?) that you decided against the inclusion of azelaic acid. Was this simply due to lack of research on AA? I recently added it to my regimen and have been very pleased with the results; I have also heard a ton of anecdotal evidence supporting its use.

Thanks for your help, I am very eagerly anticipating the release.
 
mDeezy said:
Also, I am quite surprised (disappointed?) that you decided against the inclusion of azelaic acid. Was this simply due to lack of research on AA? I recently added it to my regimen and have been very pleased with the results; I have also heard a ton of anecdotal evidence supporting its use.

Thanks for your help, I am very eagerly anticipating the release.
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We went for ingredients with supportive human research, and since TRPV1 activation (from raspberry ketone) yields the end result of 5AR inhibition (increased IGF-1 in dermal papillae) and also likely downregulates the 5AR anyway, it isn't necessary. Some research correlates the increased IGF-1 to the success of finasteride, which is obviously an (type 2) 5AR inhibitor.
 
For all the minoxidil/finasteride/other concurrent drug usage questions; they will not be necessary, as there are surprisingly impressive results with natural ingredients in research. The full writeup (which will be posted soon) reviews every study on each ingredient and gives the success data and mechanisms elucidated in each, and it should be clear why they are not needed.

There is also a short section discussing some of the research on lifestyle related promotion of hair loss.
 
Ladies and Gentleman, this is Colby (previousy known as Fitnecise). Colby is a brilliant researcher with the kind of attitude that makes us get along just fine.

He also calls out ALL BS when he sees it (even from me). Colby's contribution here, especially with compiling the research and bringing the concept of limiting dosage for increased effectiveness to the product. He has spent countless hours documenting the pathways of action and fitting all the tiny pieces into a coherent whole.

He does have an odd penchant for midgets, though, so beware.

Colby can be engaged in serious discussions at Invalid Link Removed, which will be maintaining focus on research and theoretical/study supported subjects concerning health and fitness. Recomp.com will be splitting into Invalid Link Removed (which will become a Recomp store, offering all products - though not as cheaply as Nutra - as well as some unique combination offerings (Java Lather Multipacks, Holiday/Birthday Gift Baskets, etc.) unavailable anywhere else) and Invalid Link Removed, which will focus on the above.

Anyway, Colby can help field any question that I miss. We're trying to enhance the FAQ section with any questions that we haven't anticipated - so let's hear them.
 
dsade said:
Ladies and Gentleman, this is Colby (previousy known as Fitnecise). Colby is a brilliant researcher with the kind of attitude that makes us get along just fine.

He also calls out ALL BS when he sees it (even from me). Colby's contribution here, especially with compiling the research and bringing the concept of limiting dosage for increased effectiveness to the product. He has spent countless hours documenting the pathways of action and fitting all the tiny pieces into a coherent whole.

He does have an odd penchant for midgets, though, so beware.

Colby can be engaged in serious discussions at Invalid Link Removed, which will be maintaining focus on research and theoretical/study supported subjects concerning health and fitness. Recomp.com will be splitting into Invalid Link Removed (which will become a Recomp store, offering all products - though not as cheaply as Nutra - as well as some unique combination offerings (Java Lather Multipacks, Holiday/Birthday Gift Baskets, etc.) unavailable anywhere else) and Invalid Link Removed, which will focus on the above.

Anyway, Colby can help field any question that I miss. We're trying to enhance the FAQ section with any questions that we haven't anticipated - so let's hear them.
Click to expand...

Sounds great!
 
One thing that sort of concerns me is the reliance on raspberry ketones (RK). It seems like a number of your cosmetic products already use RK in them. I'll be honest and say that this raises the possibility that you are simply trying to market another use for something that you already purchase in large quantities anyway. (Not saying I believe this, but it does raise an eyebrow.)
 
EIC said:
One thing that sort of concerns me is the reliance on raspberry ketones (RK). It seems like a number of your cosmetic products already use RK in them. I'll be honest and say that this raises the possibility that you are simply trying to market another use for something that you already purchase in large quantities anyway. (Not saying I believe this, but it does raise an eyebrow.)
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Much like everything else, compounds work differently in different tissues.

For example (related, but not intentional), look at capsaicin. Not only is it the active in Cayenne, which is used as a fat burner which means it has activity systemically, but locally it is effective as an anti-inflammatory/analgesic.

Often, when researching the use of a compound (for example, when I was doing the DCP research) you will note studies that strike your interest and trigger other ideas for products. Localized CGRP release, and the downstream effect of increased IGF-1 release (proposed "reason" is that nociceptive stimuli USUALLY indicated injury, and the increase in localized IGF-1 release is there to speed up tissue rebuilding and recovery) is applicable to injury healing (flawless) and hair growth. In addition, LOW dose RKs actually amplify sensation, in addition to the proposed benefit if NO release/sensitivity and blood flow enhancement. Thought process brought me to the Slick Pleasures design which, though it also uses RKs, is also proven to be very effective.

I understand your concern, but nothing is unsupported and I refuse to limit innovation just because ingredients have multiple functions in various tissues.
 
dsade said:
Much like everything else, compounds work differently in different tissues.

For example (related, but not intentional), look at capsaicin. Not only is it the active in Cayenne, which is used as a fat burner which means it has activity systemically, but locally it is effective as an anti-inflammatory/analgesic.

Often, when researching the use of a compound (for example, when I was doing the DCP research) you will note studies that strike your interest and trigger other ideas for products. Localized CGRP release, and the downstream effect of increased IGF-1 release (proposed "reason" is that nociceptive stimuli USUALLY indicated injury, and the increase in localized IGF-1 release is there to speed up tissue rebuilding and recovery) is applicable to injury healing (flawless) and hair growth. In addition, LOW dose RKs actually amplify sensation, in addition to the proposed benefit if NO release/sensitivity and blood flow enhancement. Thought process brought me to the Slick Pleasures design which, though it also uses RKs, is also proven to be very effective.

I understand your concern, but nothing is unsupported and I refuse to limit innovation just because ingredients have multiple functions in various tissues.
Click to expand...

Nice response!
 
EIC said:
One thing that sort of concerns me is the reliance on raspberry ketones (RK). It seems like a number of your cosmetic products already use RK in them. I'll be honest and say that this raises the possibility that you are simply trying to market another use for something that you already purchase in large quantities anyway. (Not saying I believe this, but it does raise an eyebrow.)
Click to expand...

TRPV1 activation is promising for skin elasticity also, e.g.

Harada, N et al. Effect of topical application of raspberry ketone on dermal production of insulin-like growth factor-I in mice and on hair growth and skin elasticity in humans. Growth hormone & IGF research 2008;doi:10.1016/j.ghir.2008.01.005

This study among others all described in the writeup.
 
GeneGnomeX said:
TRPV1 activation is promising for skin elasticity also, e.g.

Harada, N et al. Effect of topical application of raspberry ketone on dermal production of insulin-like growth factor-I in mice and on hair growth and skin elasticity in humans. Growth hormone & IGF research 2008;doi:10.1016/j.ghir.2008.01.005

This study among others all described in the writeup.
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Quit giving away future products.

Eyebag/wrinkle cream anyone?
 
GeneGnomeX said:
Comes with free Invalid Link Removed
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Goes great with the Capsaicin eyedrops.

EDIT: You are a sick sick man...I will never be able to use Slick Pleasures while looking at your picture again.
 
Urban Monk said:
Anything for dark circles under eyes Dsade? My girlfriend would love this!
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Yes...theoretically these are oxidation reactions of blood in the thin skinned areas around the eye, combined with edema-like reactions and loss of skin tone/collagen elasticity (as alluded to above).

The ingredients that would target this are widely available, with the only thing needing to be adjusted being ideal carrier.
 
dsade said:
Much like everything else, compounds work differently in different tissues.

For example (related, but not intentional), look at capsaicin. Not only is it the active in Cayenne, which is used as a fat burner which means it has activity systemically, but locally it is effective as an anti-inflammatory/analgesic.

Often, when researching the use of a compound (for example, when I was doing the DCP research) you will note studies that strike your interest and trigger other ideas for products. Localized CGRP release, and the downstream effect of increased IGF-1 release (proposed "reason" is that nociceptive stimuli USUALLY indicated injury, and the increase in localized IGF-1 release is there to speed up tissue rebuilding and recovery) is applicable to injury healing (flawless) and hair growth. In addition, LOW dose RKs actually amplify sensation, in addition to the proposed benefit if NO release/sensitivity and blood flow enhancement. Thought process brought me to the Slick Pleasures design which, though it also uses RKs, is also proven to be very effective.

I understand your concern, but nothing is unsupported and I refuse to limit innovation just because ingredients have multiple functions in various tissues.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I guess I am just used to companies that have a pet ingredient and market it as the cure all for everything. But you're right: there is some science to support RK for hair loss. So I'm in. Couple follow-up questions for you or GeneGnomeX:

1) What are your thoughts on aminexil, which is supposedly approved for hair loss in Europe?

2) Can you share the ingredients of the Java Lustre yet? I just ran out of Revita and would hold off on a re-order if the Java Lustre was up to par.
 
EIC said:
Fair enough. I guess I am just used to companies that have a pet ingredient and market it as the cure all for everything. But you're right: there is some science to support RK for hair loss. So I'm in. Couple follow-up questions for you or GeneGnomeX:

1) What are your thoughts on aminexil, which is supposedly approved for hair loss in Europe?

I haven't looked too much into the product...give me some time to check it out.
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2) Can you share the ingredients of the Java Lustre yet? I just ran out of Revita and would hold off on a re-order if the Java Lustre was up to par.
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Some shared ingredients, with some extras that they DON'T have..not to mention a better price point. Writeup will be ready for this sometime early next week.
 
dsade said:
Some shared ingredients, with some extras that they DON'T have..not to mention a better price point. Writeup will be ready for this sometime early next week.
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I was in the same boat, needing to order Revita, but I'll hold off if you're going to kick it out soon!
 
How long before you're able to create a beta of the under eye cream for dark circles and lines?

She claims to have had them for most of her life, and she has VERY sensitive skin along w/ allergies. The cream would need to be in a hypoallergenic carrier, that would cause no irritation.

99.9% of over the counter eyecare solutions have caused burning/darker circles/ or general unpleasantness. (Don't work)
 
dsade said:
Yes...theoretically these are oxidation reactions of blood in the thin skinned areas around the eye, combined with edema-like reactions and loss of skin tone/collagen elasticity (as alluded to above).

The ingredients that would target this are widely available, with the only thing needing to be adjusted being ideal carrier.
Click to expand...

I need something like this too...I'm 43 and starting to get puffiness and circles under the eyes.
 
A good topical eye creme can help; caffeine is commonly included to reduce puffiness.

EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure how good it is for you, but Preparation H, for hemorrhoids is an old school remedy for puffy eyes. ;)

As for eye creme, you can spend $10-400 on a freakin half oz. The women specific brands are best, though of course there's nothing specific aboyt eye creme; I'm just saying don't limit yourself to something marketed to men, like Jack Black or Anthony Logistics (both of which are good, and reasonably inexpensive.

From expensive:

Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed

To inexpensive:

Invalid Link Removed
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I wouldn't hesitate to use the Jack Black or Anthony stuff: I've had good luck with one or two of their products, and I ain't spending $100 on eye creme.

Oh, and to complete your metrosexual transformation, pick up one of these:

Invalid Link Removed
 
poison said:
A good topical eye creme can help; caffeine is commonly included to reduce puffiness.

EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure how good it is for you, but Preparation H, for hemorrhoids is an old school remedy for puffy eyes. ;)

As for eye creme, you can spend $10-400 on a freakin half oz. The women specific brands are best, though of course there's nothing specific aboyt eye creme; I'm just saying don't limit yourself to something marketed to men, like Jack Black or Anthony Logistics (both of which are good, and reasonably inexpensive.

From expensive:

Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed

To inexpensive:

Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed

I wouldn't hesitate to use the Jack Black or Anthony stuff: I've had good luck with one or two of their products, and I ain't spending $100 on eye creme.

Oh, and to complete your metrosexual transformation, pick up one of these:

Invalid Link Removed
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$10 for a half an ounce is even retarded. We can easily do something of equal or better quality at the same cost for 2-3 ounces
 
Awesome. She's been through about 15 different under eye products, out of which not one has worked. The one that was MOST successful (not saying much), was a product called Eye Blossom.

Invalid Link Removed

Ingredients:
Passion flower extracts and peptides (Chrysin?)
Cucumber Cucumber (Antioxidant) Cucumber (potassium) Cucumber (silcon) Cucumber (sulphur), Flaxseed Oil, Palm Oil
 
hey Matt (or new tech support master of hair growth),

I was looking into a product called Nioxin. If you have heard of it or know anything about it, how will this compare? Thank you.
 
CTDeuce said:
hey Matt (or new tech support master of hair growth),

I was looking into a product called Nioxin. If you have heard of it or know anything about it, how will this compare? Thank you.
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As far as I know, Nioxin is just a cleanser. They claim that the oils on TOP of the scalp are where DHT is contained and where it does its damage, and simply cleaning the scalp of oils will prevent hairloss (this is all I can find from their website.)

There is no active in there to trigger growth at all.
 
dsade said:
As far as I know, Nioxin is just a cleanser. They claim that the oils on TOP of the scalp are where DHT is contained and where it does its damage, and simply cleaning the scalp of oils will prevent hairloss (this is all I can find from their website.)

There is no active in there to trigger growth at all.
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Yeah I thought that was the case but I wasn't sure. It seemed from the research I did that it was like revita's shampoo in that it tries to control the loss of hair as opposed to revita's leave in product that shoots for regrowth.

Thank you sir!
 
CTDeuce said:
Yeah I thought that was the case but I wasn't sure. It seemed from the research I did that it was like revita's shampoo in that it tries to control the loss of hair as opposed to revita's leave in product that shoots for regrowth.

Thank you sir!
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My pleasure...we're trying to get both of these out around the same time...pretty sure the last ingredient was delivered today!
 
Im 100% sure i'm going to purchase regardless, but do you plan on running any logs for the 6 weeks it should last? I would definitely apply...but like I said, I fully intend to buy either way...so my money is yours on this venture, haha
 
I may have missed it, but in what time frame should use of viril mane affect hair regrowth?
 
CTDeuce said:
Im 100% sure i'm going to purchase regardless, but do you plan on running any logs for the 6 weeks it should last? I would definitely apply...but like I said, I fully intend to buy either way...so my money is yours on this venture, haha
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I'm thinking about it...only problem is my log failures have been extremely high lately, and I am spread too thin to watch everyone - not to mention that it is going to take some patience to follow a fully dedicated log that will take 4-6 weeks.

Might be willing to hook someone up that will incorporate logging this into an existing log, and Urban Monk was testing the first beta batch (which I ran out of and couldn't resupply...sorry U.M.). I'm getting him the first combo pack to resume testing ASAP.
 
dsade said:
I'm thinking about it...only problem is my log failures have been extremely high lately, and I am spread too thin to watch everyone - not to mention that it is going to take some patience to follow a fully dedicated log that will take 4-6 weeks.

Might be willing to hook someone up that will incorporate logging this into an existing log, and Urban Monk was testing the first beta batch (which I ran out of and couldn't resupply...sorry U.M.). I'm getting him the first combo pack to resume testing ASAP.
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I was planning on doing a log of VM over the winter with just something simple like weekly pictures. I really don't need anything from Nutra so if you want to sell it directly let me know.
 
CTDeuce said:
Matt....clear some space in your inbox ;)
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Done...

Just heading out for the evening to trial out the new STRANGE Ecstasy Shot.

Kanna, PEA, Magnolia, L-Dopa, Geranamine, Zingerone, RKs and Caffeine....and MORE.

Still have a few more ingredients to add, but last night (sans L-Dopa...my dumbass forgot it at the office) was promising indeed.

Solved quite a few problems. :)
 
pmiller383 said:
I was planning on doing a log of VM over the winter with just something simple like weekly pictures. I really don't need anything from Nutra so if you want to sell it directly let me know.
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I promised Nutra to keep the presale with them.

Maybe you can just buy a bunch of Java Lather, too. :)
 
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