Vicious Labs PHs

AnabolicGuru said:
Yes lol. I worked up to 4250 cals on my last cycle and the only thing it did was bloat me. Several other people here will agree that oral gains slow down dramatically after 4-5 weeks.
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Personally for me the gains kick in around week 3 peak at week 6 and continue up to 10 weeks or so. Just steadily increase Cals and the anabolics in your system will tell them where to go.
 
RickyBlobby said:
Personally for me the gains kick in around week 3 peak at week 6 and continue up to 10 weeks or so. Just steadily increase Cals and the anabolics in your system will tell them where to go.
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Even with Oral PH’s? Thought most were too liver toxic for 10 weeks of use.. And I can’t imagine the cramps after that long.
 
jrock645 said:
I’m really curious about Msten. Supposedly drier and more mass gains. DMZ seems to shine in the recomp category, and a lot of the weight gain sounds like glycogen uptake. Been so long since I used it I can’t remember. Msten sounds like a less harsh Superdrol.
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I find it odd that as of recent, it's been starting to gain such illustrious notariaty. When it was easily found before the ban, I never remember much talk about it. Trying to find out why the sudden love, it seems. DMZ is somewhat hard to truly cut on because I find even in a deficit, it makes me look so much bigger. Good problem but it doesnt give that hard anavar look.
 
mikeymike85 said:
I find it odd that as of recent, it's been starting to gain such illustrious notariaty. When it was easily found before the ban, I never remember much talk about it. Trying to find out why the sudden love, it seems. DMZ is somewhat hard to truly cut on because I find even in a deficit, it makes me look so much bigger. Good problem but it doesnt give that hard anavar look.
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Well, pre ban there were tons of options for bulking. Phera, m1,4, sd... Now DMZ is about it besides the andro’s, and it seems once you’ve had the pre ban stuff you won’t want those. I don’t, anyway. DMZ is good but it didn’t quite live up to the hype for most people, in being marketed basically as “sd but safer.”
 
Msten is supposed to be really great for blowing up and getting the shrink wrap thin skin all at once. Like a super Winstrol, and supposedly just as toxic or even more.
 
RickyBlobby said:
Personally for me the gains kick in around week 3 peak at week 6 and continue up to 10 weeks or so. Just steadily increase Cals and the anabolics in your system will tell them where to go.
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Crazy man. The gains kick in for me during the first week lol. Maybe I just needed to bump the doses up when I bumped up calories too though.
 
Old Witch said:
Msten is supposed to be really great for blowing up and getting the shrink wrap thin skin all at once. Like a super Winstrol, and supposedly just as toxic or even more.
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You're saying it can give you the paper thin grainy look? ****, even anavar doesnt give that.
 
Old Witch said:
Msten is supposed to be really great for blowing up and getting the shrink wrap thin skin all at once. Like a super Winstrol, and supposedly just as toxic or even more.
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Yeah....it definitely couldn't be considered a "super Winstrol".
But it's a great compound.
 
AnabolicGuru said:
I’ve never ran dmz. I bulked on msten and gained a good bit of water weight. So I can’t see it leaning people out like crazy. I gained little to no water bulking on tbol.
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Ive forgotten...how did you dose the Msten?

I just snagged a bottle of Necrobombs (v2).
:-)
 
AnabolicGuru said:
I’ve never ran dmz. I bulked on msten and gained a good bit of water weight. So I can’t see it leaning people out like crazy. I gained little to no water bulking on tbol.
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I always thought it was watery, which is why I never ran it. Why is it getting touted as so amazingly dry all the sudden?
 
Ive run m sten 3 times. All at 20 mgs daily for 45 days. Gainz were very dry even on cal surplus. If its real m sten it will fully kick in by 10 days. M sten is better than dmz in my opinion.
 
Renew1 said:
Yeah....it definitely couldn't be considered a "super Winstrol".
But it's a great compound.
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Right. I'm sure it's only as good as it is on paper for a select few, everyone is different. I have sen a few cases of results that seemed pretty fantastic. Whether those were dusted products might be the question.
 
Old Witch said:
Right. I'm sure it's only as good as it is on paper for a select few, everyone is different. I have sen a few cases of results that seemed pretty fantastic. Whether those were dusted products might be the question.
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Just some nostalgia......
When Msten was introduced, it was 4mg caps. 4mg!!!
Lol
 
There are still some stack products with a dose as low but most seem to run closer to 20mg a tab as a standalone product. I would imagine 40mg of Msten daily would have to be at least as good as 40mg winny a day. Maybe not as dry for most people. Like I said, when I first heard of it they were always saying it dried them out like crazy.
 
Nearly all msten sold in last 3 or 4 years is 10 mg caps. Original ultradrol was 4 mg caps. Over 20 mgs a day you will start to feel like ****. No appetite etc.
 
dvw said:
Nearly all msten sold in last 3 or 4 years is 10 mg caps. Original ultradrol was 4 mg caps. Over 20 mgs a day you will start to feel like ****. No appetite etc.
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Checkout "Winswole" 20mg sublingual tabs. 60c. Directions say take 2 per day. Crazy.
 
Old Witch said:
There are still some stack products with a dose as low but most seem to run closer to 20mg a tab as a standalone product. I would imagine 40mg of Msten daily would have to be at least as good as 40mg winny a day. Maybe not as dry for most people. Like I said, when I first heard of it they were always saying it dried them out like crazy.
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There's definitely mixed reports on the dryness of it.

I think I've only run it stacked with other things.

I'll probably run it stacked (again) before too long with DMZ and Trest. I really enjoyed that stack. I felt good, and gained mass and strength, while getting cut up pretty good.
 
What the hell... I thought that was the stuff. Looks like I've got some digging to do.
 
65dill said:
Weird. That’s the brand I just ran. 10mg tabs are what it says on my bottle.
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Yup, turns out I was thinking of Pit Pharma M Bolo. I've heard their andros suck, but andros aren't really very effective to begin with.

Edit, that's not it either. I must have smoked some bad granola.
 
Old Witch said:
Yup, turns out I was thinking of Pit Pharma M Bolo. I've heard their andros suck, but andros aren't really very effective to begin with.

Edit, that's not it either. I must have smoked some bad granola.
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I tried their red nose and it was garbage. Two weeks and noticed nothing. Vicious Labs DMZ or Msten(my favorite) will give you significant glycogen retention within 3 days and the strength and size gains really start at about 7 days or so. I’ve ran it at 30 mg for two cycles and they were great cycles. You won’t feel like crap if you run it with test. The back pumps were no fun though
 
My experiences; DMZ was more wet, wider shoulders and back, more size, really bad cramps and spasms. MSten is drier, less size but noticeable gains, far less cramps.
 
What is the normal Msten dosage? That’s strange to me my bottle by assault labs is 4mg. Ran that at 12mg and had decent gains. How could the dose possibly be 40mg now??
 
Sss23 said:
What is the normal Msten dosage? That’s strange to me my bottle by assault labs is 4mg. Ran that at 12mg and had decent gains. How could the dose possibly be 40mg now??
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When the original Msten “Ultradrol” came out it was 4mg caps also, but the first batch had some superdrol contamination in there. How old was the Assault Labs one? I recall a decent price premium on the contaminated ones...

After non contaminated products had been out for a while people reached the consensus that 20-30 mg is the sweet spot for most people. Some do push the envelope up to 40, but I suspect side effects out weigh the gains for most people over 30.

Many people have made gains on less like 12mg like you did, but your diet and training must have been on point. Then again everyone is different!
 
20-30mg for sure. Personally wouldn’t go to 40 not cost effective and not much more size. No need for more strain on my body
 
sinewave3 said:
When the original Msten “Ultradrol” came out it was 4mg caps also, but the first batch had some superdrol contamination in there. How old was the Assault Labs one? I recall a decent price premium on the contaminated ones...

After non contaminated products had been out for a while people reached the consensus that 20-30 mg is the sweet spot for most people. Some do push the envelope up to 40, but I suspect side effects out weigh the gains for most people over 30.

Many people have made gains on less like 12mg like you did, but your diet and training must have been on point. Then again everyone is different!
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It was from 2014 you think it had SD in it?
 
Old Witch said:
Checkout "Winswole" 20mg sublingual tabs. 60c. Directions say take 2 per day. Crazy.
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The SD contamination was from the reaction synthesis of Methylstenbolone when Antaeus Labs first began producing it. My understanding is the manufacturing process has been refined to remove the contamination.

FYI on paper, Msten is 3x more anabolic than DMZ so it should be a better muscle builder. I always thought Msten was dryer than DMZ.
 
Well, Msten is basically the delta-1 version of Superdrol, so I could see cross contamination from an incomplete reaction pretty easily. It's also M1T with a methyl chain added to the 2 position. Surprisingly it's not as toxic as m1T.

Of the three, M Sten is driest for sure. Not as dry as winny, more like the non methyl 1-T. Most guys will get real hard and swell up, skin thins out a little but not much. The wetness in these dht based methyls has a lot to do with your liver function and how it fares against the drug so it is subjective per user,
 
Old Witch said:
Well, Msten is basically the delta-1 version of Superdrol, so I could see cross contamination from an incomplete reaction pretty easily. It's also M1T with a methyl chain added to the 2 position. Surprisingly it's not as toxic as m1T.

Of the three, M Sten is driest for sure. Not as dry as winny, more like the non methyl 1-T. Most guys will get real hard and swell up, skin thins out a little but not much. The wetness in these dht based methyls has a lot to do with your liver function and how it fares against the drug so it is subjective per user,
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Drier than Anavar?
 
mikeymike85 said:
Drier than Anavar?
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I want to say about equal but far better at bulking and hardening than anavar. A guy will gain a lot of weight in a short time. So in that way it might seem drier, because if you haven't really gained much sub-q water, but you've put on 15lbs, you're going to see those cuts better and more deeply. That's my opinion anyhow.
 
medinacirilo said:
My experiences; DMZ was more wet, wider shoulders and back, more size, really bad cramps and spasms. MSten is drier, less size but noticeable gains, far less cramps.
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My experience with both compounds would be exactly opposite. I have only used Ultradrol Msten at 28mg for one cycle, where I have used DMZ at least 3 times from different brands.

Msten is a touch wetter, but not like estrogen wet. It was incredible recovery but the Charlie horses every night and terrible BP weren’t worth it. DMZ doesn’t do as much but I get strong on it and look better, and it’s rather mild for me.

LMG I just used at only 60mg with my DMZ and had to discontinue since I didn’t wanna start taking Prami. It gives a wet bloated look and was aggravating gyno quick without prolactin suppression.
 
These compounds all do really stack well together.

20mg Msten, 30 DMZ, & 50-100LMG for 6 weeks will blow a physique up nice with a good surplus on board.
 
mikeymike85 said:
The flip flopping I see of some saying M-Sten is dry, while other say its wet- is quite baffling, lol
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That's because in part the wetness comes from the liver as a side effect of metabolism of a 17a alkylated steroid and it's far more subjective between chemicals and users than estrogen related water weight. It's just how your body in particular reacts to elevated enzymes. The other issue is the 2methyl and 17a groups being impactful on water weight at the receptor as well for some and not others. So it boils down to consistency among users, Msten and DMZ are both less reliably dry than winstrol for example which is the gold standard for shrink wrap skin. M Sten has the potential to be really really dry, or kinda wet. Depends on you, and the only way to know is to try.

Personally I'm with Hyde, stack all three.
 
mikeymike85 said:
The flip flopping I see of some saying M-Sten is dry, while other say its wet- is quite baffling, lol
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Neither of these compounds are “wet”. In anabolic slang, wet is defined as water retention under the skin. Typically from estrogen via aromatization (test, M14ad, 4andro, dbol etc), but also with compounds that can raise estro that don’t aromatize (deca/NPP, LMG, prodienelone).

What people mean is DMZ & Msten both tend to hold a lot of glycogen in the muscle - still water weight that gets shed post cycle, but having the water IN the muscle instead of ON it makes a world of aesthetic difference. Hope that helps clarify some. They will put water weight on you like most orals but they are decidedly dry by nature. LMG is wet.
 
Hyde said:
Neither of these compounds are “wet”. In anabolic slang, wet is defined as water retention under the skin. Typically from estrogen via aromatization (test, M14ad, 4andro, dbol etc), but also with compounds that can raise estro that don’t aromatize (deca/NPP, LMG, prodienelone).

What people mean is DMZ & Msten both tend to hold a lot of glycogen in the muscle - still water weight that gets shed post cycle, but having the water IN the muscle instead of ON it makes a world of aesthetic difference. Hope that helps clarify some. They will put water weight on you like most orals but they are decidedly dry by nature. LMG is wet.
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I realized that might not be clear after I started posting about it. This is exactly correct.
 
That makes sense... I find Var does the same thing...makes you look a little fuller, while establishing new cuts. Dmz does not give me cuts like Var. Is it safe to say that Msten would give more "cuts" than DMZ?
 
mikeymike85 said:
That makes sense... I find Var does the same thing...makes you look a little fuller, while establishing new cuts. Dmz does not give me cuts like Var. Is it safe to say that Msten would give more "cuts" than DMZ?
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Definitely not. I would think about them as potentially very similar drugs whose (side) effects will depend upon your individual response. Most people will have a preference based on their personal experience. Neither have a direct fat-burning mechanism the way Anavar does. Truly nothing is like Var.
 
Got that right... wish I could run it 365. DMZ and Var was an amazing cycle. I want to try MSten and Var next. If MSten is drier than DMZ, itd make an amazing vascular cycle
 
mikeymike85 said:
Got that right... wish I could run it 365. DMZ and Var was an amazing cycle. I want to try MSten and Var next. If MSten is drier than DMZ, itd make an amazing vascular cycle
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Mikey, have you run EQ yet?
The vascularity is incredible.
 
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