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VECTOR pre release leaks and info

I’ve noticed nice recomp effects from Antaeus Labs HH6 which is ursolic acid cyclodextrin complex. So oral ursolic does work.
 
schizm said:
In4 3 bottles to give it a good run. Thinking another week or so before the presale is launched?
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I've always thought supplements peak around 6 weeks, taper off after that.

That's what I've noticed in the past, from a whole range of supplements.

3 bottles = 2 x 6 week cycles.

Others say 8, or 12 tho.
 
AdelV said:
I've always thought supplements peak around 6 weeks, taper off after that.

That's what I've noticed in the past, from a whole range of supplements.

3 bottles = 2 x 6 week cycles.

Others say 8, or 12 tho.
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Really depends on the ingredient(s), and the category of supplement. Some ingredients don’t really start working that much for weeks, and others don’t work as well after several weeks.
 
I see that the first extract listed has some ingredient overlap with follidrone 2. Would you suggest combining Vector and Follidrone 2 at full dose of both, or would the overlapping ingredients perhaps cause undesirable effects at the high doses the combined products would lead to?
 
schizm said:
In4 3 bottles to give it a good run. Thinking another week or so before the presale is launched?
Click to expand...

We have a set date of March 6th as a cutoff. So before that we will be in retail sales.
But everything relies on when the raw materials land.
Ill keep everyone posted.
If you havnt signed up for the newsletter head to our site and sign up.
http://www.blacklionresearch.com
 
max silver said:
I see that the first extract listed has some ingredient overlap with follidrone 2. Would you suggest combining Vector and Follidrone 2 at full dose of both, or would the overlapping ingredients perhaps cause undesirable effects at the high doses the combined products would lead to?
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Actually running them together would be a good idea.
For example Follidrone has an absorption package that will increase the absorption of the epicatechin and other ingredients making Vector even stronger.
 
jt75 said:
When are we getting the second ingredient
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Working on it now but itll be a few days. I want to spread the info out a bit so you guys have stuff to digest and investigate if you want while waiting.
 
brundel said:
We have a set date of March 6th as a cutoff. So before that we will be in retail sales.
But everything relies on when the raw materials land.
Ill keep everyone posted.
If you havnt signed up for the newsletter head to our site and sign up.
http://www.blacklionresearch.com
Click to expand...

can you tell us if the price will be like FD2? or how much i should calculate max.? (i need to import it into the EU)
i want 3 bottles and really need to know how much money i should save for it to make sure i can afford it =)

and is SSS the better option for an EU shipment or BLR directly? i think both sites will have the intro offer. but maybe SSS can offer a cheaper shipping option, right?
 
iamyourfather said:
can you tell us if the price will be like FD2? or how much i should calculate max.? (i need to import it into the EU)
i want 3 bottles and really need to know how much money i should save for it to make sure i can afford it =)
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€2000 per bottle, its worth it weight in gold ? ? ?
 
jt75 said:
€2000 per bottle, its worth it weight in gold
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that would be a little bit to expensive for me haha

if its really 40% off during the intro sale i think 3 bottles will be around 75€ which is absolutely fair. hope shipping doesnt kill the good price though
 
iamyourfather said:
that would be a little bit to expensive for me haha

if its really 40% off during the intro sale i think 3 bottles will be around 75€ which is absolutely fair. hope shipping doesnt kill the good price though
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Dude I bought true shred last week from strong supplement shop and it took 4 days to arrive with me in Belfast, Ireland from the states which is excellent service and it cost £3.62. Absolutely brilliant service and cost so i think the 40% off plus cheap postage will save us a lot of money
 
jt75 said:
Dude I bought true shred last week from strong supplement shop and it took 4 days to arrive with me in Belfast, Ireland from the states which is excellent service and it cost £3.62. Absolutely brilliant service and cost so i think the 40% off plus cheap postage will save us a lot of money
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okay thats very nice! do they ship as a ‚gift‘?
 
iamyourfather said:
can you tell us if the price will be like FD2? or how much i should calculate max.? (i need to import it into the EU)
i want 3 bottles and really need to know how much money i should save for it to make sure i can afford it =)

and is SSS the better option for an EU shipment or BLR directly? i think both sites will have the intro offer. but maybe SSS can offer a cheaper shipping option, right?
Click to expand...

Vector will be a strong exclusive for a while and we dont ship to EU retail anyways. Youll have to buy from an EU retailer or strong.
Ill know pricing once all the shipping is done. Its expensive to ship 200kilos from china to usa ;)
 
brundel said:
Vector will be a strong exclusive for a while and we dont ship to EU retail anyways. Youll have to buy from an EU retailer or strong.
Ill know pricing once all the shipping is done. Its expensive to ship 200kilos from china to usa ;)
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okay thank you. so ill buy from strong. the EU retailer will be probably twice as expensive so i dont think a second about buying from them
 
Happy to see some of the info on this one being released... As far as ursolic acid, I have been using a very effective topical at a high dosage as of late and absolutely love it! Recomp effects are crazy...


brundel said:
I think people underestimate oral Ursolic acid.
Here are some stats from an oral ursolic acid study.
Notice it increased muscle mass, fat loss, strength etc etc etc
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brundel said:
Lower doses or the incorrect extraction process has been shown to be ineffective so the extraction process is very important with EJ. So lets dig into whats inside the plant itself.
Just a short list of the chemical constituents of EJ-

Epicatechin
Ursolic acid
Chlorogenic acid
Corosolic acid
Oleanolic acid
Caffeic acid
Procyanidin B2
Protocatechuic acid
Ferulic acid
Tormentic acid
Naringenin
Ellagic acid
EGCG
Quercetin

This is a pretty impressive list of actives. Lets take a look at what some of these do.

Epicatechin.
EJ doesnt have as much epicatechin as something like cocoa or green tea but there is still a decent amount. Its estimated that there is about 150mg per 100g in cocoa and there is about 60mg in EJ so a little less than half. None the less there is enough that epicatechin will be active especially with Narinigenin, EGCG and quercetin in the mix as these all increase the absorption of epicatechin. Lets think of epicatechin as sort of a bonus.

Ursolic acid.
There is a decent dose in here at upwards of 150mg estimated per daily dose of our EJ extract but Ursolic acid is also a major constituent of another of Vectors ingredents giving us approx 300mg + of Ursolic acid per dose. Ursolic acid orally has been show in studies to increase muscle mass, Increase strength, Increase brown fat, Increase glucose utilization and increase exercise capacity. Its been stated that UA is not viable orally but I think I disagree and it seems as though studies also indicate that it is orally active although it has a very poor absorption rate. High doses are required and studies indicate 300+ should be enough orally to produce the desired results.

Corosolic acid.
Corosolic acid is a GDA generally extracted from Banaba (lagerstroemia speciosa) but a significant amount is present in Eribotrya J. Corosolic acid works orally at relatively low doses and has some interesting effects. Even doses of 10mg are viable to display its impressive effects. Most people have heard of Corosolic acid for its glucose effects as it is a major GDA. Corosolic acid can help to keep glucose down with multiple mechanisms of action. Glut4 translocation, reduced insulin resistance as well as all kinds of enzymatic suppression and or expression.
-Corosolic acid has been shown to reduce cholesterol levels and enhance lipid metabolism.
-Corosolic acid is also a great fat burner not only through antidiabetic effects but also by retarding absorption of fatty acids.
-Corosolic acid is a potent and selective inhibitor of the enzyme (11-beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 1) that converts inactive cortisone to active cortisol. Therefore, corosolic acid may prevent excessive cortisol production.
Overall Corosolic acid is one of Vectors great components. Increased Glucose uptake into muscles, decreased blood sugar, increased insulin sensitivity, increased fat utilization and decreased fat diposition plus decreased cortisol make Corosolic a powerhouse.

Oleanolic acid
Oleanolic acid (OA) is a constituent of Olea Europea, Viscum Album and Eriobotrya japonica as well as others.
Its long been used in Chinese medicine for treatment of liver disorders and other ailments. OA increases glucose utilization, is a solid vasodilator and increases expression of the AKT pathway.

Protocatechuic acid
Insulin like activity by activating PPAPy.
Decreases ROS
Antiageing
Anti inflammatory
Antiseptic
analgesic
GLUT4 upregulation
Antioxidant
Protects the testes from damage and stress
Cardio protective

Caffeic acid
Increased exercise capacity
Reduced Blood Lactate
Increased fat loss
Endurance

Ferulic acid, 4-hydroxy-3-methoxycinnamic acid, is one of the most ubiquitous phenolic acids, found in the
bran of grasses such as wheat, rice, and oats. It belongs to the family of plant hydroxycinnamic acids, which
include caffeic acid, sinapic acid, and p-coumaric acid. Recent studies have provided evidence that ferulic acid reduces the risk of disease, including
Alzheimer’s disease, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, and colon cancer. Currently, ferulic acid is used to enhance athletic
performance, both in humans and racehorses. Supplementation by it has been found to increase muscle strength in weight lifters.

In one animal study a single acute administration of Ferulic acid increased swimming time by 170%.
Ferulic acid prevented the decrease in catalase, superoxide dismutase and protected against the depletion of GST activity induced by exhaustive
exercise.
Exercise can be associated with oxidative stress. Thus exercise can act as a powerful source of Reactive Oxygen Species, depending on duration and intensity. During exhaustive exercise, fat is typically used as the primary energy source, thus sparing glycogen stores, which in turn retards fatigue. However, during strenuous exercise substantial production of ROS occurs via beta oxidation during the utilization of fat.
In addition, a dramatic increase in oxygen consumption in the body creates an imbalance between ROS and the antioxidant defense system resulting in fatigue.
Acute adminstration of Ferulic acid prevents fatigue, increases endurance and protects the body during exhaustive exercise.

Chlorogenic acid
CA often reffered to as green coffee extract is widely known for its antiobesity effects via PPARa agonism and by preventing proliferation of new fat cells. CA can increase muscular glucose uptake both by stimulating Non insulin dependent AMPK as well as stimulating pAKt. Great for keeping bodyfat off while promoting muscle growth.

Tormentic acid
Anti diabetic
Glut4
AMPK





REFS:
1.Loquat leaf extract enhances myogenic differentiation, improves muscle function and attenuates muscle loss in aged rats.
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2.Loquat (Eriobotrya japonica) extract prevents dexamethasone-induced muscle atrophy by inhibiting the muscle degradation pathway in Sprague Dawley rats.
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3.Effect of Loquat Leaf Extract on Muscle Strength, Muscle Mass, and Muscle Function in Healthy Adults: A Randomized, Double-Blinded, and Placebo-Controlled Trial
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4.Ethanol Extract of Eriobotrya japonica Leaves Enhanced Swimming Capacity in Mice
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5.Cell Suspension Culture of Eriobotrya japonica Regulates the Diabetic and Hyperlipidemic Signs of High-Fat-Fed Mice
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6.Tormentic Acid, a Major Component of Suspension Cells of Eriobotrya japonica, Suppresses High-Fat Diet-Induced Diabetes and Hyperlipidemia by Glucose Transporter 4 and AMP-Activated Protein Kinase Phosphorylation
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Nice. I actually considered using loquat in an upcoming product, but selected some other compounds for various reasons. Having the 100:1 extract will make a big difference. Good Job.
 
Mike Arnold said:
Nice. I actually considered using loquat in an upcoming product, but selected some other compounds for various reasons. Having the 100:1 extract will make a big difference. Good Job.
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Thanks bro. The other 2 are also interesting.
Overall the product has a ton of juice. Each extract with their own set of tasty chems.
 
brundel said:
Vector will be a strong exclusive for a while and we dont ship to EU retail anyways. Youll have to buy from an EU retailer or strong.
Ill know pricing once all the shipping is done. Its expensive to ship 200kilos from china to usa ;)
Click to expand...

I strongly agree with having pre sale at SSS since they ship fastest to EU and have cheap shipping price.

I will definitely not buy from Predator that will have probably 150% higher price than SSS even though they could max justify having 80% higher price but they are greedy. I never seen Predator having any intro sale or discount for getting new product first inside EU - usually they raise price even higher to go for short term extra buck.

Now since Vector will probably have crazy demand at pre sale price I recommend you to limit 1 bottle purchase per client this way you get product spread to more clients that will spread the word to their friends.

Because some clients might just buy 5 or 10 bottles then maybe half of potential clients won't be able to even get 1 bottle to try.

Or maybe limit first half of bottles available for purchase at 1 bottle limit then what's left at no limit per client. Or vice a versa - first half goes at no limit then last half of stack limit 1 bottle per client.

Think of it like soccer fans having limit to buy tickets of top matches like Barcelona vs Real Madrid. What you want is more users of Vector not less than half of interested buyers buying 100% of pre sale amount.

This is just a suggestion - you do what you want but I'm sure if many won't be able to even buy 1 bottle they will be extra mad at you.
 
ahh123 said:
I strongly agree with having pre sale at SSS since they ship fastest to EU and have cheap shipping price.

I will definitely not buy from Predator that will have probably 150% higher price than SSS even though they could max justify having 80% higher price but they are greedy. I never seen Predator having any intro sale or discount for getting new product first inside EU - usually they raise price even higher to go for short term extra buck.

Now since Vector will probably have crazy demand at pre sale price I recommend you to limit 1 bottle purchase per client this way you get product spread to more clients that will spread the word to their friends.

Because some clients might just buy 5 or 10 bottles then maybe half of potential clients won't be able to even get 1 bottle to try.

Or maybe limit first half of bottles available for purchase at 1 bottle limit then what's left at no limit per client. Or vice a versa - first half goes at no limit then last half of stack limit 1 bottle per client.

Think of it like soccer fans having limit to buy tickets of top matches like Barcelona vs Real Madrid. What you want is more users of Vector not less than half of interested buyers buying 100% of pre sale amount.

This is just a suggestion - you do what you want but I'm sure if many won't be able to even buy 1 bottle they will be extra mad at you.
Click to expand...
Something tells me there will be enough to go around as Vector will revolutionise the supplement market, I'm sure Brundel will produce multiple runs of this. Don't worry, everyone will get some
 
ahh123 said:
I strongly agree with having pre sale at SSS since they ship fastest to EU and have cheap shipping price.

I will definitely not buy from Predator that will have probably 150% higher price than SSS even though they could max justify having 80% higher price but they are greedy. I never seen Predator having any intro sale or discount for getting new product first inside EU - usually they raise price even higher to go for short term extra buck.

Now since Vector will probably have crazy demand at pre sale price I recommend you to limit 1 bottle purchase per client this way you get product spread to more clients that will spread the word to their friends.

Because some clients might just buy 5 or 10 bottles then maybe half of potential clients won't be able to even get 1 bottle to try.

Or maybe limit first half of bottles available for purchase at 1 bottle limit then what's left at no limit per client. Or vice a versa - first half goes at no limit then last half of stack limit 1 bottle per client.

Think of it like soccer fans having limit to buy tickets of top matches like Barcelona vs Real Madrid. What you want is more users of Vector not less than half of interested buyers buying 100% of pre sale amount.

This is just a suggestion - you do what you want but I'm sure if many won't be able to even buy 1 bottle they will be extra mad at you.
Click to expand...

that wouldnt be smart.

1. all buyers wouldnt get the real effects with just a one month run

2. i cant afford 3 bottles at full price, so i wouldnt buy it at all if i just can buy one

3. if all pre sale buyers have enough caps to run it a sufficient time (8-12 weeks), the feedback will be worth it. this generates new buyers (at full price of course).

and 4. - if you come first you get first. its always like that in life.

oh and 5. i think you are overestimating the amount of pre sale buyers. without blaming BLR (!) but imho the company is relatively small compared to others. so if brundel produces a high amount of vector in the first run, there must be enough bottles for EVERY pre-sale buyer. especially because this intro offer will last only 24h! given that he wont have 10k people buying 10 bottles during the intro offer, there shouldn’t be a problem with buying even 10 bottles. if im wrong with this, brundel, please correct me.
 
jt75 said:
Something tells me there will be enough to go around as Vector will revolutionise the supplement market, I'm sure Brundel will produce multiple runs of this. Don't worry, everyone will get some
Click to expand...

If it sells...and I am sure it will...getting the product out won't be an issue. Manufacturers and supplement company owners do what needs to be done when there is money to be made.
 
jt75 said:
Something tells me there will be enough to go around as Vector will revolutionise the supplement market, I'm sure Brundel will produce multiple runs of this. Don't worry, everyone will get some
Click to expand...
I have 2200 initial units. Hopefully that'll last a few weeks.
Follidrone 1 sold out of initial stock in a few days so...... you never know.
Part of that was epicatechin was so new and exciting.
But I think people will be excited about vector as well.
 
Mike Arnold said:
If it sells...and I am sure it will...getting the product out won't be an issue. Manufacturers and supplement company owners do what needs to be done when there is money to be made.
Click to expand...
Follidrone 1.0 was at one point selling 1 unit per minute. ...
It was insane. Nutraplanet raised their prices to 80$ a bottle and it was on eBay for 100$ and selling. Then clones started. Follidrex was my favorite. Didn't even try to pretend not to be a clone. We did run out of stock.
So this time I have double the amount 2000 vs 1000. And I have another round of raws that will start extraction during the first week of Vector sales. So....we won't run dry.
 
brundel Patrick Arnold said that ingestible ursolic acid is all but useless as it is destroyed by presystemic liver metabolism, how have you gotten around this?
 
brundel said:
Follidrone 1.0 was at one point selling 1 unit per minute. ...
It was insane. Nutraplanet raised their prices to 80$ a bottle and it was on eBay for 100$ and selling. Then clones started. Follidrex was my favorite. Didn't even try to pretend not to be a clone. We did run out of stock.
So this time I have double the amount 2000 vs 1000. And I have another round of raws that will start extraction during the first week of Vector sales. So....we won't run dry.
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i have a trip planned for early May and i need to hop on something before then. the trip is actually an 'active retreat' where we will be surfing, boxing, and yoga. should i start follidrone for the hell of it and then vector once it lands? main goal is to gain mass but also to have the potential for abs to poke through. aka lean mass
 
jt75 said:
brundel Patrick Arnold said that ingestible ursolic acid is all but useless as it is destroyed by presystemic liver metabolism, how have you gotten around this?
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I respect his work but actually he is wrong about oral Ursolic Acid. UA human studies (450mg) daily show it works (even without any bioavailability/absorption boost).
But yes, ofcourse TD version would be much better than oral
 
cbr1000rr said:
i have a trip planned for early May and i need to hop on something before then. the trip is actually an 'active retreat' where we will be surfing, boxing, and yoga. should i start follidrone for the hell of it and then vector once it lands? main goal is to gain mass but also to have the potential for abs to poke through. aka lean mass
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and is there a promo code available for when ordering on BLR website?
 
cbr1000rr said:
i have a trip planned for early May and i need to hop on something before then. the trip is actually an 'active retreat' where we will be surfing, boxing, and yoga. should i start follidrone for the hell of it and then vector once it lands? main goal is to gain mass but also to have the potential for abs to poke through. aka lean mass
Click to expand...

If that’s your goal, then definitely start FD 2.0 ASAP. The only downside is not knowing which supplement is doing what, but since you have a trip planned, who cares? You can figure that out after you’re jacked.
 
Danes said:
I respect his work but actually he is wrong about oral Ursolic Acid. UA human studies (450mg) daily show it works (even without any bioavailability/absorption boost).
But yes, ofcourse TD version would be much better than oral
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It’s also theoretically possible that there are some other components/compounds in the source material that makes the UA in it more effective, granted it’s dosed high enough. So a normal full spectrum extract may not have enough UA to do anything, while an isolated or high % UA extract may not have other necessary components, but in theory perhaps combining the two ideas would be more ideal.

Again, just a hypothetical potential scenario based on some other ingredients and compounds I’ve seen.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
It’s also theoretically possible that there are some other components/compounds in the source material that makes the UA in it more effective, granted it’s dosed high enough. So a normal full spectrum extract may not have enough UA to do anything, while an isolated or high % UA extract may not have other necessary components, but in theory perhaps combining the two ideas would be more ideal.

Again, just a hypothetical potential scenario based on some other ingredients and compounds I’ve seen.
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Sure. I have tried pure UA with and without bioavailability/absorption booster and I need to admit both worked well. Nice recomp effect, size, strength ++
 
That’s what I’m worried about. I’d like to try vector as a standalone but we don’t have an eta yet. If it’s definitely March, then I’ll do folli. Any idea?
 
jt75 said:
brundel Patrick Arnold said that ingestible ursolic acid is all but useless as it is destroyed by presystemic liver metabolism, how have you gotten around this?
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Of course he says this he sells transdermal ursolic acid ;)
As long as you use high enough doses its all good. Plus we are not relying on ursolic acid alone. Its just one of about 12-14 constituents.
 
cbr1000rr said:
i have a trip planned for early May and i need to hop on something before then. the trip is actually an 'active retreat' where we will be surfing, boxing, and yoga. should i start follidrone for the hell of it and then vector once it lands? main goal is to gain mass but also to have the potential for abs to poke through. aka lean mass
Click to expand...

For sure wont hurt to stack them. Its up to you. You can start FD2 now and vector in a couple weeks when it launches.
Either way they will be great together for this.
 
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