US Fed announces ANOTHER $800bn BAILOUT!!!

Omen

Banned
WOw.....1st it was 780,000,000,000 + another 800,000,000,000 and was it 20,000,000,000 for Citibank?

1,600,000,000,000 so far? plus whatever other costs we don't know about?

Almost 2 F**KING TRILLION DOLLARS.........

What a f**king joke......:hammer:

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Rugger said:
Pretty much a financial apocalypse, from all angles.
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Can we recover from it? if the majority says yes, so be it.

Some lessons are best learned the hard way.

Why should I have to pay(with a very small amount that is) for the mistakes of other people? If they refund every single dollar I spent on taxes then I will support the bailout, let em burn others people money for all I care, just not mine.

I'm not suffering in anyway from the economy, I'm living good without any support and putting myself through college, making compromises ofcourse, but that's a price I'm willing to pay, f**k those dumb fat greedy lazy f**ks, why should I have to hold the weight of other people?

:whip:
 
The idea Omen is that if the bank's start to collapse, there will be no way for the average person to get a loan, or even to use credit.

I'd say the majority of American's rely on credit or a loan to purchase houses, cars, other major expenses. This means that without the banks (sadly enough) the entire economic model that the US is built upon collapses. This isn't something you recover from...it would affect everyone in this country. Collapsing a country's financial system would effective ruin everyone.

So now they have to bail out the banks (greedy bastards or not) to preserve our way of life. Most people just don't understand that.
 
Nabisco put it in nice terms. I highly recommend reading some of Invalid Link Removed articles on this subject as they are very thorough. The briefings on the crisis are very useful,
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Omen said:
Can we recover from it? if the majority says yes, so be it.

Some lessons are best learned the hard way.

Why should I have to pay(with a very small amount that is) for the mistakes of other people? If they refund every single dollar I spent on taxes then I will support the bailout, let em burn others people money for all I care, just not mine.

I'm not suffering in anyway from the economy, I'm living good without any support and putting myself through college, making compromises ofcourse, but that's a price I'm willing to pay, f**k those dumb fat greedy lazy f**ks, why should I have to hold the weight of other people?

:whip:
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Recover? Yeah, maybe 20, 25 years. If the system collapses you WILL be suffering, and hardcore. You wont be able to get a mortgage, car loan, student loan, credit card, equity, anything. The city you live in would probably be bankrupt and unable to keep services. The post office would be forced to close so you wouldn't even get the mail for the bills you have. The adjustable rates on credit you already have would sky rocket. Every single employment sector would cut jobs. Employment would rise to 25-30 percent and a loaf of bread would cost 10 dollars.

Lets also get this clear, nothing you are paying to the government is going to these deals. The gov is manufacturing money.
 
Rugger said:
Recover? Yeah, maybe 20, 25 years. If the system collapses you WILL be suffering, and hardcore. You wont be able to get a mortgage, car loan, student loan, credit card, equity, anything. The city you live in would probably be bankrupt and unable to keep services. The post office would be forced to close so you wouldn't even get the mail for the bills you have. The adjustable rates on credit you already have would sky rocket. Every single employment sector would cut jobs. Employment would rise to 25-30 percent and a loaf of bread would cost 10 dollars.

Lets also get this clear, nothing you are paying to the government is going to these deals. The gov is manufacturing money.
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Good answer. As frustrating as it is to pay for other peoples mistakes it still needs to happen.
 
Rugger said:
Lets also get this clear, nothing you are paying to the government is going to these deals. The gov is manufacturing money.
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The Federal Reserve Bank is making money, not the Gov't. Although, since we are literally owned by all of the banks, they are more of a governing body over us than those Sally Baggins we elect every few years.

This stuff makes me want to watch part 3 of Zeitgeist again.
 
Yes, the Reserve is making money, but when you simply print more bills, you deflate/dilute its value (value of the dollar). It's not a fuggin' money tree in the sense that you print money and there are no consequences. The value of the dollar is derived from the strength of the American economy (it used to be gold, but not anymore) and its ability to hold its value. A $100 dollar bill is simple a piece of fancy paper with a few goofy azz looking $100s on it. It is not backed by gold, or diamonds, or anything but the trust that the American economy is sound enough that we (the U.S.) will continue to be productive, profitable, and accepting of the value of that $100 bill you hold.

If you ask me and probably any congniscent human being on this planet, the American economy is pure sh!t. So where does the trust in the economy come from now? What is going to happen to the value of the almighty U.S. DOLLAR? Printing money is not the answer to our financial woes. We're just playing ostrich if we print money and call it a day. There needs to be bigger plays.

I call for government and/or 3rd party regulation of big banks and more control over lending. I have no problem admitting I'm no Economist, but there obviously needs to be serious regulation, otherwise investors will lack the confidence needed to get thos POS economy rolling again, and keep it there.

F.UCK all you dirty politicians and sleezy azz corporate execs. You will all burn in hell and I'll be pissin' down on ya.
 
papapumpsd said:
I call for government and/or 3rd party regulation of big banks and more control over lending. I have no problem admitting I'm no Economist, but there obviously needs to be serious regulation, otherwise investors will lack the confidence needed to get thos POS economy rolling again, and keep it there.

.
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I believe this is exactly what they are now trying to do and have been doing it in Australia for some time now.

Spare a thought for Zimbabwe and their 1000000% inflation rate!!
 
The current Western-Model of Fiat-Reserve capital flows is intrinsically flawed, and, while not necessarily created for such purposes, will ultimately result in perpetual crises of inflation and/or deflation. To suggest this system may be irrevocably altered is, not necessarily a bad thing. While something must be done, this solution is just 'some thing' with inadequate direction and preconditions.

The old adage 'money does not grow on trees' applies here, and the injection of even more arbitrary fiat Capital reduces market liquidity as a whole.
 
For the record, I do feel that some Capital injection needs to occur, but not in the form of directly injecting moneys into the system. As papa mentioned, this necessarily deflates the value of existing Capital, both in the form of moneys and otherwise. Investment in infrastructure, if one assumes something needs to occur at a Federal level, is a far wiser use of this money. The creation of more constant capital (i.e., public works system, roads, bridges) and reinvigoration of variable capital (i.e., jobs) will necessarily increase the value of preexisting moneys, rather than deflate it. This then (hypothetically) leads to an increase in aggregate demand and consumer confidence, with adjacent effects on the economy.
 
Nabisco said:
The idea Omen is that if the bank's start to collapse, there will be no way for the average person to get a loan, or even to use credit.

I'd say the majority of American's rely on credit or a loan to purchase houses, cars, other major expenses. This means that without the banks (sadly enough) the entire economic model that the US is built upon collapses. This isn't something you recover from...it would affect everyone in this country. Collapsing a country's financial system would effective ruin everyone.

So now they have to bail out the banks (greedy bastards or not) to preserve our way of life. Most people just don't understand that.
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You have nailed the problem and the solution in one statement.

The problem is dependence on loans by average American's. The other problem is that those providing the loans to average Americans became greedy because the average American depends on loans. I am quite capable of keeping up my loan payments. The BIG problem is that the loan providers are FAILING on their part of being intelligent, competent, and ethical business people and have become greedy and irresponsible.

I am not delinquent. I am not making money off of OPM. I am not hedging, profiteering, exploiting, embellishing or committing fraud or any other unethical business practices in running the business of my home.

As long as they are enabled to continue to do what they are doing without consequences and accountability the problem is going to continue.

Until they bottom out and crash this will never ever end. Until the pain of doing what they do becomes greater than continuing to do so the option to continue is always what they will chose. Unfortunately....we will serve it up on a silver platter because we are all AFRAID!!!

7,000,000,000,000....SEVEN TRILLION!!!! and growing.

They need to be shot...all of them.
 
B5150 said:
You have nailed the problem and the solution in one statement.

The problem is dependence on loans by average American's. The other problem is that those providing the loans to average Americans became greedy because the average American depends on loans. I am quite capable of keeping up my loan payments. The BIG problem is that the loan providers are FAILING on their part of being intelligent, competent, and ethical business people and have become greedy and irresponsible.

I am not delinquent. I am not making money off of OPM. I am not hedging, profiteering, exploiting, embellishing or committing fraud or any other unethical business practices in running the business of my home.

As long as they are enabled to continue to do what they are doing without consequences and accountability the problem is going to continue.

Until they bottom out and crash this will never ever end. Until the pain of doing what they do becomes greater than continuing to do so the option to continue is always what they will chose. Unfortunately....we will serve it up on a silver platter because we are all AFRAID!!!

7,000,000,000,000....SEVEN TRILLION!!!! and growing.

They need to be shot...all of them.
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No Sh*t man! preach the truth or beat it into them! :whip:
 
I don't need AIG, Citi-Corp, GMAC, Ford, and any of the other inscrupulous lenders that are going belly up. I qm current on all my accounts, local, state, federal. mortgage, city etc....AND MY HOURS ARE REDUCED....!!!! But because I an current on all my debt, carry an 800+ Fico score and have zero delinquencies I may not be qualified to be bailed out like the billionairembesslers
 
B5150 said:
I don't need AIG, Citi-Corp, GMAC, Ford, and any of the other inscrupulous lenders that are going belly up. I qm current on all my accounts, local, state, federal. mortgage, city etc....AND MY HOURS ARE REDUCED....!!!! But because I an current on all my debt, carry an 800+ Fico score and have zero delinquencies I may not be qualified to be bailed out like the billionairembesslers
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I'm only 21 and my credit score last time I checked was 730-750, never been delinquent.

Why reward people who f**k things up and f**k up our economy? I think people who pay off everything and keep their score up, account clean, etc.....Should be given stimulus if anything and people who don't, don't receive a thing until they clean up, as far as "bailouts" go.....

People who are irresponsible and lazy should be punished, not rewarded and vice versa for responsible, successful people.
 
You guys are still missing the point. Look beyond yourself and how you haven't directly contributed to the problem.
 
A major collapse is all but inevitable... we can stave it off but in the end excessive overseas loans/buyouts and capital injections will only make sure we stay weak after the collapse. Let it happen now, let the markets stabilize, and after a few years we will be fine again. Send all our assets overseas, devalue our currency, and we are setting up for a huge failure from which we may never recover.
 
Rugger said:
Recover? Yeah, maybe 20, 25 years. If the system collapses you WILL be suffering, and hardcore. You wont be able to get a mortgage, car loan, student loan, credit card, equity, anything. The city you live in would probably be bankrupt and unable to keep services. The post office would be forced to close so you wouldn't even get the mail for the bills you have. The adjustable rates on credit you already have would sky rocket. Every single employment sector would cut jobs. Employment would rise to 25-30 percent and a loaf of bread would cost 10 dollars.

Lets also get this clear, nothing you are paying to the government is going to these deals. The gov is manufacturing money.
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Did those things happen in japan when their banking system blew up? No.
 
dpfisher said:
...Send all our assets overseas, devalue our currency, and we are setting up for a huge failure from which we may never recover.
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I most definitely agree.

People seem to be forgetting the proportionate relation between (wage) value and goods - that is, the cost of goods intrinsically informs the value of wages. For example, let us say you garner $150 of wages each week, and the bag of goods you need for that week costs $150 as well. Now, let us say that this same bag of goods increases in price from one week to the next by $150, arriving at a price of $300. Despite the fact that the level of your wage has not been altered, it has been devalued by a proportionate increase in the value of the assets you wish to attain (this is called real wages, or purchasing power). Your wage which once allowed you to subsist is now inadequate.

On a microscopic scale, this phenomenon is not necessarily self evident: After the bail-out, the $150 you withdraw from your bank is still valued at $150 locally. However, it is at the macroscopic scale of international finance where this phenomenon is present and hindering, for several reasons:

a) Traders are attempting to purchase and trade international assets; the direct injection of Capital in the form of moneys immediately devalues the American Dollar, giving traders less confidence. This lack of confidence, in turn, further devalues the dollar vis-a-vis giving an appearance of lessened strength to the dollar.

b) It removes liquidity from the American market. An asset is said to be liquid if it can withstand a transaction with very little loss in value - by proxy, moneys is the most liquid asset, hence it forming the basis of our Western exchange system. Globally, the U.S., dollar was considered the most liquid asset given its perpetual strength, and relative lack of risk to become devalued. Now, once again, when you inject several trillion dollars of moneys into the market, you devalue the moneys which are already present - making them less liquid. This is horrible. Why? Because the perception of a semi-permanent loss of liquidity may cause some to gravitate towards the Euro as the preferred currency (remembering that the higher liquidity of an asset, the greater desire one has to trade it because it does not lose value). If, Globally, the Euro usurps the U.S., dollar as the preferred currency, then that would be a disaster.

In my opinion, direct injections such as this are a horrible idea, and will no doubt surface unintended consequence which will surpass the initial crisis in their magnitude.
 
RobInKuwait said:
I agree Mullet. Interventionism is most definitely a mistake.

:rofl::run:
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To read:

interpret something that is written or printed; "read the advertisement"; "Have you read Salman Rushdie?"

:)

Nice try, though. You still do not understand what Interventionism is!



Mulletsoldier said:
For the record, I do feel that some Capital injection needs to occur, but not in the form of directly injecting moneys into the system. As papa mentioned, this necessarily deflates the value of existing Capital, both in the form of moneys and otherwise. Investment in infrastructure, if one assumes something needs to occur at a Federal level, is a far wiser use of this money. The creation of more constant capital (i.e., public works system, roads, bridges) and reinvigoration of variable capital (i.e., jobs) will necessarily increase the value of preexisting moneys, rather than deflate it. This then (hypothetically) leads to an increase in aggregate demand and consumer confidence, with adjacent effects on the economy.
Click to expand...
 
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