Uncut- A New Encapsulated Pre-Workout From Applied Nutriceuticals

[rms80]

this is why i have little faith in studies....it cost a lot of money to do a study, and there always seems to be someone with ulterior motives behind the money.....and like the saying goes...'you get what you pay for".

Its not that the studies are bad, or aren't useful, but you have to look at the context- just because something increases or decrease estro in-vitro doesn't always mean it is going to carry over, and you also have to look at methods, cell lines, and the discussion/context of the study to really even be able to reach any type of conclusion. I see a lot of Pubmed ninjas on this board (and others) throwing around abstracts, which isn't bad, per se, but doesn't always tell the full story. Full text > abstract and the conclusions derived thereof- I admit I have been guilty of throwing out abstracts in the past in an effort to save time, etc., but it isn't any substitute for information provided by the full text.........

To your point bigt, always look for government or state-sponsored work; these tend to be much more conclusive and have less potential for bias; however, not all scientific work undertaken by drug companies is necessarily bad, or containing ulterior motives- in fact, I have seen some really good studies in this realm, especially when it comes to pharmacokinetic studies and QSAR (supp cos. won't ever do these)

 

[rms80]

Thanks for this post!

No worries- I hate seeing information that isn't necessarily true being spread as the gospel......

 

[domore]

No worries- I hate seeing information that isn't necessarily true being spread as the gospel......

I'm on this board because this really interests me, and has become somewhat of a hobby. My field is completely unrelated to medicine/nutrition/etc., but it is refreshing when I find information that actually leads me in the right direction.

 

[thebigt]

Its not that the studies are bad, or aren't useful, but you have to look at the context- just because something increases or decrease estro in-vitro doesn't always mean it is going to carry over, and you also have to look at methods, cell lines, and the discussion/context of the study to really even be able to reach any type of conclusion. I see a lot of Pubmed ninjas on this board (and others) throwing around abstracts, which isn't bad, per se, but doesn't always tell the full story. Full text > abstract and the conclusions derived thereof- I admit I have been guilty of throwing out abstracts in the past in an effort to save time, etc., but it isn't any substitute for information provided by the full text.........

To your point bigt, always look for government or state-sponsored work; these tend to be much more conclusive and have less potential for bias; however, not all scientific work undertaken by drug companies is necessarily bad, or containing ulterior motives- in fact, I have seen some really good studies in this realm, especially when it comes to pharmacokinetic studies and QSAR (supp cos. won't ever do these)

thank you. i have a suspicious mind, i see conspiracies behind every corner, lol....but the truth is out there!!!!

 

[xhrr]

The 40% cordycepic acid was an experiment- it gave us all kinds of issues in mfg., so we switched it back to the 7% cordycepic...as for the icariin, the amount of the 20% icariin was doubled to make up for the reduction in the % used; keep in mind we have full analytical testing in our OWN facility (ID, assay, micro, etc.), plus our own manufacturing. There has been a few things "suggested" by reps from other companies having to do with icariin, please keep in mind they have a vested interest in de-bunking our products and ingredients, and the information they desseminate isn't always the full story. We test each batch of icariin that comes into our facility, and we are heavily involved with our raw material supplier in finding the BEST material on the market. Just because it is 20% icariin does not mean that it is 80% estrogenic and anti-androgenic material. This is false; the 60% in this case is inert material (mannitol and cellulose), with the other 20% being unextracted (powder) plant material. The unextracted material is not standardized or extracted for anything; it is going to have little or no biological activity. We do have control over this, and a lot more so than the other companies out there who use a contract manufacturer (95% of them do). We work closely with our ingredient suppliers on our materials, and we test each batch in-house when it comes into our facility (same goes for ALL of our raw materials). The net icariin (in mg) is exactly the same as the original version of Drive- and this has never changed......

I appreciate this post as I am a very big fan of Drive and was admittedly a little concerned when another member brought up the change so thank you for clearing this up. I'm guilty of jumping the gun with some of the recent post brought up in regards to icariin.

 

[rms80]

I appreciate this post as I am a very big fan of Drive and was admittedly a little concerned when another member brought up the change so thank you for clearing this up. I'm guilty of jumping the gun with some of the recent post brought up in regards to icariin.

No worries- once again, vested interest is coming into play; we test, and we work very closely with our raw material supplier to make sure that we understand where the material is coming from, and what it contains, even in the non-extracted portions. Believe it or not, you can actually have a good amount of control over this, as long as you have a good relationship with them. We can pick and choose the "other" parts of extracted materials based on what we need based on quality and ease of manufacturing. This is cGMP-compliant, as long as you have a standard and spec for it; our purchasing makes decisions based on these factors, before cost. When cost is the only driver of ingredient choice, it will end up costing you time, effort, and energy on the manufacturing and quality end......

What I will say is that it is kind of hard to have a relationship with your supplier when you use a contract manufacturer, because a lot of these companies have no idea where the raw ingredients are coming from. They also are not testing each ingredient for quality- they are just relying on someone else's word, which can be really dangerous, especially if you have a problem with your product......

 

[OrganicShadow]

thank you. i have a suspicious mind, i see conspiracies behind every corner, lol....but the truth is out there!!!!

There's a method and way to go about reading into studies. It's not just flipping through discussion and abstracts to find what they did and what they found. Often times, especially university studies, these are sponsored by some company or group which would benefit from the potential outcomes. As Dirk said, look for government studies as they tend to be less biased. Even then I've seen studies where methods were bad, materials used are poor quality, or even the wrong statistics used. All said and done, what happens in vitro isn't always in vivo. Just as what happens in rat studies aren't always translated to humans. And not all studies are geared to make grant money, there are people out there who do want to shake an industry for the sake of progress.

-OS-Team AppNut

 

[thebigt]

There's a method and way to go about reading into studies. It's not just flipping through discussion and abstracts to find what they did and what they found. Often times, especially university studies, these are sponsored by some company or group which would benefit from the potential outcomes. As Dirk said, look for government studies as they tend to be less biased. Even then I've seen studies where methods were bad, materials used are poor quality, or even the wrong statistics used. All said and done, what happens in vitro isn't always in vivo. Just as what happens in rat studies aren't always translated to humans. And not all studies are geared to make grant money, there are people out there who do want to shake an industry for the sake of progress.

-OS-Team AppNut

for me i let smart guys like dirk figure it all out...then i try the product and either like it or not, i go with trusted companies [of which i consider appnut to be] and more often than not it pans out.

too often i have heard the brainiacs on forums chrush a product i have tried and liked...the so called supportive science means nothing to me if i either like or dislike a product. the only thing i pay attention to---- is when someone brings up a point about a product being toxic or harmful-then they have my attention.

f' a bunch of studies, i want hands on results!!!!!

 

[Dewey99]

for me i let smart guys like dirk figure it all out...then i try the product and either like it or not, i go with trusted companies [of which i consider appnut to be] and more often than not it pans out.

too often i have heard the brainiacs on forums chrush a product i have tried and liked...the so called supportive science means nothing to me if i either like or dislike a product. the only thing i pay attention to---- is when someone brings up a point about a product being toxic or harmful-then they have my attention.

f' a bunch of studies, i want hands on results!!!!!

Well put. Dirk's knowledge as a product formulator is amazing, but he isn't one of those guys that looks at the studies and says "If we put x ingedient in with y ingredient, then we will get z result". Of course he has an idea of which formulations will work best, but he does a lot of real world testing to see what users actually feel too. This is really important and really sets the AppNut process apart from what a lot of companies do.

I can tell you with Uncut, that he has sent us no less than 6 different versions to test. At no point did he tell us what the ingredients were or what we should expect. This kept the placebo effect out of the picture and we each gave feedback on each version. To take it a step further, as the formula became more and more refined, Dirk asked us to only share our experiences with him and not amongst each other. This further reduced any placebo effects by eliminating someone feeling something just because other people said they felt it.

This kind of process is definitely not the easy route. Dirk could have combined these ingredients in the amounts he desired and brought Uncut to market. Instead, he gathered feedback along the way and continuously tweaked the formula to achieve optimal results. I wish everything I bought was as well thought out and tested. I know I've tried bars or protein powder and wondered to myself whether the company even had anybody taste it.

Obviously each of you should try Uncut for yourselves and draw your own conclusion. I just thought you might be interested in how real-world results already played into the final formula.

 

[thebigt]

Well put. Dirk's knowledge as a product formulator is amazing, but he isn't one of those guys that looks at the studies and says "If we put x ingedient in with y ingredient, then we will get z result". Of course he has an idea of which formulations will work best, but he does a lot of real world testing to see what users actually feel too. This is really important and really sets the AppNut process apart from what a lot of companies do.

I can tell you with Uncut, that he has sent us no less than 6 different versions to test. At no point did he tell us what the ingredients were or what we should expect. This kept the placebo effect out of the picture and we each gave feedback on each version. To take it a step further, as the formula became more and more refined, Dirk asked us to only share our experiences with him and not amongst each other. This further reduced any placebo effects by eliminating someone feeling something just because other people said they felt it.

This kind of process is definitely not the easy route. Dirk could have combined these ingredients in the amounts he desired and brought Uncut to market. Instead, he gathered feedback along the way and continuously tweaked the formula to achieve optimal results. I wish everything I bought was as well thought out and tested. I know I've tried bars or protein powder and wondered to myself whether the company even had anybody taste it.

Obviously each of you should try Uncut for yourselves and draw your own conclusion. I just thought you might be interested in how real-world results already played into the final formula.

so dirk has floated 6 trial balloon's at you guys to try?


that is pretty awesome...i hope dirk's borderline ocd pays off with a superior product!!!

 

[OrganicShadow]

so dirk has floated 6 trial balloon's at you guys to try?


that is pretty awesome...i hope dirk's borderline ocd pays off with a superior product!!!

There's a chance. And all different colors, lol.

The forums help get a general idea on what to expect from a product but, as you said, its never all one way or another. I've used products people raved about and got nothing and vise versa. Same goes for prop blends: obviously no ones a fan of mystery doses but if you try it and it works then awesome stick with it.

What drives me up the wall is bogus rationalization of a compounds use where shone highly effective in some random animal test then claim that it might work in humans.

-OS-Team AppNut

 

[thebigt]

There's a chance. And all different colors, lol.

The forums help get a general idea on what to expect from a product but, as you said, its never all one way or another. I've used products people raved about and got nothing and vise versa. Same goes for prop blends: obviously no ones a fan of mystery doses but if you try it and it works then awesome stick with it.

What drives me up the wall is bogus rationalization of a compounds use where shone highly effective in some random animal test then claim that it might work in humans.

-OS-Team AppNut

lol....i am 54 and tried so many supps it's even hard for me to believe i have tried so many...what gets me is when i say i got great results from a product, and the whiz kids try and say it's placebo because the science behind the product isn't there..or vice versa.


it's like they say about pornography, i know it when i see it, lol.

 

[chedapalooza]

lol....i am 54 and tried so many supps it's even hard for me to believe i have tried so many...what gets me is when i say i got great results from a product, and the whiz kids try and say it's placebo because the science behind the product isn't there..or vice versa.

it's like they say about pornography, i know it when i see it, lol.

Couple products I've used with tremendous success repeatedly that the higher ups here call "garbage" and "useless" idk.. Just shows everyone is different for sure.

 

[VolcomX311]

I will definitely be trying it out.

 

[xhrr]

I will definitely be trying it out.

Same I'm really excited for this. Any more ingredients to reveal?

 

[Sprinterguy4]

Im guessing Co Q-10

 

[OrganicShadow]

I cant wait for the official write up.

-OS-Team AppNut

 

[jimbuick]

I cant wait for the official write up.

-OS-Team AppNut

I can't wait for you to send me yours

 

[Sprinterguy4]

1-2 weeks to go according to judojosh.

 

[Sprinterguy4]

1-2 weeks to go according to judojosh.

As of last week.

 

[Dewey99]

Soon.....

 

[AZMIDLYF]

Looking good big D!!

 

[domore]

Soon.....

Put me down for a palate.

 

[OrganicShadow]

Dewey, where did you get that picture? I'm convinced someone likes you better.

-OS-Team AppNut

 

[jimbuick]

Dewey, where did you get that picture? I'm convinced someone likes you better.

-OS-Team AppNut

I like him better right now.

 

[OrganicShadow]

I like him better right now.

Psh..

 

[Dewey99]

Dewey, where did you get that picture? I'm convinced someone likes you better.

-OS-Team AppNut

It's an ad from the latest issue of Muscle and Fitness. They like me better because I pay for a subscription.

 

[OrganicShadow]

It's an ad from the latest issue of Muscle and Fitness. They like me better because I pay for a subscription.

Understandable.

 

[Sprinterguy4]

Well I have 10 RPM (@2 per day) and 2 black cats v2 left. Counting down the days.

 

[xhrr]

more hints at ingredients naow

 

[andrew732]

I am awaiting this one, RPM is an all time consistent great, so um yeah I will be buying.

 

[rms80]

more hints at ingredients naow

Coming- trying to figure out one last thing with the tester data......will post the full write-up in the main "Supplements" section in the next couple days

 

[xhrr]

Coming- trying to figure out one last thing with the tester data......will post the full write-up in the main "Supplements" section in the next couple days

looking forward to it

 

[thebigt]

i am going thru my sofas and chairs looking for money to buy this!!!! hell i might even clean behind the seat in my car!!!

 

[Dewey99]

i am going thru my sofas and chairs looking for money to buy this!!!! hell i might even clean behind the seat in my car!!!

There's a motivated guy right there!

Everybody keep your eyes open for some generous promos once Uncut is released. We don't want to keep all of it to ourselves (well, some of us do but that idea was overruled), so we will be sharing some with our friends on the forums!

 

[thebigt]

There's a motivated guy right there!

Everybody keep your eyes open for some generous promos once Uncut is released. We don't want to keep all of it to ourselves (well, some of us do but that idea was overruled), so we will be sharing some with our friends on the forums!

:bigeyes::yikes::Eyecrazy::cool2::shocked:

 

[R-Mac]

cant wait to give this a whirl

 

[OrganicShadow]

cant wait to give this a whirl

Id love to give that avi you got a whirl. Hot damn :naughty:

-OS-Team AppNut

 

[Dewey99]

Id love to give that avi you got a whirl. Hot damn :naughty:

-OS-Team AppNut

I didn't want to be the first one to say it, but agreed 100%! That's the best natural test booster on the market.

 

[jimbuick]

Lemme help with that

 

[Sprinterguy4]

Yo Dirk I keep refreshing this thread every 5 minutes hoping to see that Uncut has hit the streets. You sure there isn't any crack in AppNuts products? Lol

 

[xhrr]

I always get bummed out when I see there are no new replies in this thread.

 

[Dewey99]

I always get bummed out when I see there are no new replies in this thread.

We don't want anybody getting bummed out. Dirk is hard at work putting the finishing touches on the formula.

I will tell you that this is the first time that I have been involved in this kind of beta testing. It's been a real pleasure to follow the process, which included 6 different beta versions that we all tested. I was very interested to find that it wasn't just about which ingredients and how much of them to put into the final version, but so much more. Things like trying the same ingredient from two different suppliers and trying them in the formula as well as having them tested in the lab. AppNut supplements aren't always going to be the cheapest, but when you see what goes into them you realize that the quality is at whole different level.

So, stay patient and I expect you will be hearing from Dirk very soon! Once you get to try Uncut, you will realize that all the waiting was so worth it.

 

[jimbuick]

We don't want anybody getting bummed out. Dirk is hard at work putting the finishing touches on the formula.

I will tell you that this is the first time that I have been involved in this kind of beta testing. It's been a real pleasure to follow the process, which included 6 different beta versions that we all tested. I was very interested to find that it wasn't just about which ingredients and how much of them to put into the final version, but so much more. Things like trying the same ingredient from two different suppliers and trying them in the formula as well as having them tested in the lab. AppNut supplements aren't always going to be the cheapest, but when you see what goes into them you realize that the quality is at whole different level.

So, stay patient and I expect you will be hearing from Dirk very soon! Once you get to try Uncut, you will realize that all the waiting was so worth it.

TLR.

 

[xhrr]

Haha I didn't mean for that to be taken so seriously. Just anxious for this product as it seems innovative something the industry is lacking lately and few companies still provide.

 

[Sprinterguy4]

I always get bummed out when I see there are no new replies in this thread.

Before I do anything in the morning I roll over and check this thread.

 

[Dewey99]

Before I do anything in the morning I roll over and check this thread.

Man, a real fan would set an alarm so they could check in the middle of the night...

 

[AZMIDLYF]

Man, a real fan would set an alarm so they could check in the middle of the night...

 

[jimbuick]

Man, a real fan would set an alarm so they could check in the middle of the night...

 

[JudoJosh]

I cant wait for the official write up.

-OS-Team AppNut

Just got it

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