My daily usual is a quad shot grande with easy water, so basically 4 shots of espresso, but I believe espresso has less caffeine in it than brewed coffee. You get all the flavor but less caffeine. I believe my quad shot is less than 200mg.
In your 20s you can get away with anythingThats like saying you would see signs of heart disease in your 20's....
Believe it or not, my heart races and has more issues with high caff, than dmaa/dmha.I think its around 2 when we look at the general population.
I don't think anyone in this thread said coffee was unhealthy in moderation.....its mainly about the stacking of these stims and long term health.
DMAA and DHMA are bit more than 200mg of coffee..lol
I don't doubt it, which makes mixing them even more problematic for some.Believe it or not, my heart races and has more issues with high caff, than dmaa/dmha.
Why I like 200mg caff as the sweet spot for a pre workout.I don't doubt it, which makes mixing them even more problematic for some.
I hear that!Compared to all the harmful toxins, recreational drugs, over medication, and hazardous chemicals we are exposed to, I don't feel that that pre-workouts will cause any long term harm or damage.
That stuff definitely grabs you by the boo booDon't really worry about long term effects.
Not going to lie. I like my DMAA but only use it 1-2times a month (if i have a makeup weekend workout). I workout in the evening and hardly use stims. I also drink coffee almost all day and don't need a stim pre.
Other stuff in coffee and not just the antioxidants.Coffee has large amounts of caffeine in it. What’s the huge difference ?
Even if you drink enough coffee to get the same caffeine content, you are still way better off than taking caffeine\pwo.Wouldn't say that large, compare to the 300+mg in most pre's.
Depends on the pre workout.Even if you drink enough coffee to get the same caffeine content, you are still way better off than taking caffeine\pwo.
I see most people getting the grande - I go to Starbucks twice a day lol. I’m a venti drinker of even Trenta. But I feel like most people consume more caffeine than assume (especially the soda drinkers)190mg and its a normal large. Most don't buy the Venti....
Your average cup of coffee in the home is 90-150mg.
We are testing 30 years of dmaa usageHonestly I don’t think caffeine is really the subject of this discussion really - it’s all the extra stimulants on top of caffeine, that kind of make you wonder. People have drank a lot of coffee for decades and it doesn’t usually affect them awfully. But nobody has been testing 30 years of DMAA usage for us.
Yes but the people that go to Starbucks are the minority....the extreme minority of coffee drinkers. Most people brew it themselves. Its like doing a general fitness study on bodybuilders. lolI see most people getting the grande - I go to Starbucks twice a day lol. I’m a venti drinker of even Trenta. But I feel like most people consume more caffeine than assume (especially the soda drinkers)
Haha trueYes but the people that go to Starbucks are the minority....the extreme minority of coffee drinkers. Most people brew it themselves. Its like doing a general fitness study on bodybuilders. lol
I'll let know when I'm 90 !We are testing 30 years of dmaa usage
I second your opinion on this. Never thought of stims as being an issue years ago. Now I don't use any stimulant based pre-work outs or drink caffeinated beverages and after almost a year of not having them I feel a lot better.Yes. Being a past lover of stims, I had too discontinue them all together. I now have much better workouts without stims and I feel they definitely cause damage to the brain and body in many ways - much of it due to brining undue stress and constiction to the overall system.
Well said. Cortisol is already high from the stress of lifting, then stims with long half life like caffeine keep it elevated longer than it should beI don’t lift as heavy as I used to but stimulants prior to heavy squats or deadlifts used to make me a little nervous. You’re already taxing your system and added stimulation seems potentially problematic.
I know there is probably a point where the boost they give is helpful, but lifting heavy boosts the nervous system and adrenaline in its own right. A proper warm-up will provide energy even if it doesn’t come with a head rush, and there is less risk of overstimulation or cardiovascular problems.
To me personally, stimulants only make sense for endurance training and sports as aids to keep going after running out of energy.
That would depend on what level of performance you would like to function at!You would think so, but no, no it doesn't.
I wouldn’t take it daily... only take if you have low energy or need that boost for a certain body partWith the amount of stims being added together, do you worry about the long terms effects of "preworkouts"?
No, I haven’t had any adverse effects from any pre workouts yet & have been lifting for over 3 years. I do have a much better knowledge of what works & what doesn’t work for me though. There’s a **** ton of nasty tasting ineffective pre workouts around. I train after work & if it weren’t for a pre workout I probably wouldn’t even show up.With the amount of stims being added together, do you worry about the long terms effects of "preworkouts"?
Using stimulants at night to workout because you’re too tired to show up, is not sustainable or healthy on many fronts. Can I ask how old you are?No, I haven’t had any adverse effects from any pre workouts yet & have been lifting for over 3 years. I do have a much better knowledge of what works & what doesn’t work for me though. There’s a **** ton of nasty tasting ineffective pre workouts around. I train after work & if it weren’t for a pre workout I probably wouldn’t even show up.
Anything thats going to increase performance aint gonna be in physiological range..so you aren’t doing “trt” per say you are simply blasting.That would depend on what level of performance you would like to function at!
Why?Using stimulants at night to workout because you’re too tired to show up, is not sustainable or healthy on many fronts. Can I ask how old you are?
High cortisol in the evening for one being very bad. Stimulants interrupting the natural sleep cycle very bad.Why?
I'll agree with this one. That's partially why I don't take pres as much as i use to. They were effecting my sleep and I feel getting a good nights sleep is more important.High cortisol in the evening for one being very bad. Stimulants interrupting the natural sleep cycle very bad.
Lol you better not workout or do anything that causes any stress on your body then. Cortisol = devil right?High cortisol in the evening for one being very bad. Stimulants interrupting the natural sleep cycle very bad.
These posts are why we lose smart people on the board like spurfyLol you better not workout or do anything that causes any stress on your body then. Cortisol = devil right?
These posts are why we lose smart people on the board like spurfy
Based off his last two posts I disagree. I guess we have different interpretations/expectations of how we perceive “smart” or someone providing value
Do you realize you are talking to one of the smart people we probably don’t get posting as much due to these specific kinds of interactions.
I don’t doubt that.Based off his last two posts I disagree. I guess we have different interpretations/expectations of how we perceive “smart” or someone providing value
Cortisol is a necessary hormone. Cortisol spikes at bed time is not wise.Lol you better not workout or do anything that causes any stress on your body then. Cortisol = devil right?
The irony in this post is of all people you choose to mention, he is a big advocate of utilizing Glucocorticoids around workouts..These posts are why we lose smart people on the board like spurfy
You are absolutely right, it is a necessary hormone, evidence suggests that there is a correlation between acute responses to resistance to training and greater increases in lean mass. (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00421-011-2246-z).Cortisol is a necessary hormone. Cortisol spikes at bed time is not wise.
Thank you for this positive and intellectualThe irony in this post is of all people you choose to mention, he is a big advocate of utilizing Glucocorticoids around workouts..
You are absolutely right, it is a necessary hormone, evidence suggests that there is a correlation between acute responses to resistance to training and greater increases in lean mass. (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00421-011-2246-z).
Cortisol isn't like insulin which has acute effects by binding to receptors on the cell surface eliciting immediate effects, it is more comparable to hormones like testosterone which operate at the DNA level as a transcription factor which binds to specific sequences of DNA to either increase or decrease their rate of transcription to mRNA. So people need to stop worrying about acute spikes in cortisol, because it likely isn't relevant in the scheme of things, its simply the body reacting to a stressor to get from "A to B".
Besides my comment in relation to this person training after work, using a pre-workout at 5pm for training doesn't translate into disrupted sleep? we don't know his tolerance? both of you are making blanket statements that may or may not be relevant to this person.
I also train in evenings and use stimulants every, single time. But i know what amounts my tolerance allows and still sleep like a baby despite the "unwise cortisol spike".
Isn’t the natural cortisol rhythm quite standard across populations with spike in the am and decreasing during the day, towards low levels at bedtime? In essence, I would be surprised but agreeable if the spike from late night workout + large stimulant load could drop back down to baseline and not disrupt circadian rhythm. Would love more perspective on this.The irony in this post is of all people you choose to mention, he is a big advocate of utilizing Glucocorticoids around workouts..
You are absolutely right, it is a necessary hormone, evidence suggests that there is a correlation between acute responses to resistance to training and greater increases in lean mass. (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00421-011-2246-z).
Cortisol isn't like insulin which has acute effects by binding to receptors on the cell surface eliciting immediate effects, it is more comparable to hormones like testosterone which operate at the DNA level as a transcription factor which binds to specific sequences of DNA to either increase or decrease their rate of transcription to mRNA. So people need to stop worrying about acute spikes in cortisol, because it likely isn't relevant in the scheme of things, its simply the body reacting to a stressor to get from "A to B".
Besides my comment in relation to this person training after work, using a pre-workout at 5pm for training doesn't translate into disrupted sleep? we don't know his tolerance? both of you are making blanket statements that may or may not be relevant to this person.
I also train in evenings and use stimulants every, single time. But i know what amounts my tolerance allows and still sleep like a baby despite the "unwise cortisol spike".
The point i was trying to make in my previous post - Cortisol, like testosterone in a physiological range will not cause increased muscle loss (gain in terms of testosterone), they are each one piece of an extremely complex puzzle. In expanding on this, a transient spike in testosterone, gh or any other hormone does not lead to increased anabolism. A supraphysiological dose over a sustained period is required.Isn’t the natural cortisol rhythm quite standard across populations with spike in the am and decreasing during the day, towards low levels at bedtime? In essence, I would be surprised but agreeable if the spike from late night workout + large stimulant load could drop back down to baseline and not disrupt circadian rhythm. Would love more perspective on this.
I get migraines from too much caffeine so look for preworkouts that contain alternative stims like higenamine, teacrine, theobromine, huperzine A, hordenine to name but a few.With the amount of stims being added together, do you worry about the long terms effects of "preworkouts"?