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To Infinity.... and Beyond!

At 4 pumps a day, the @SkRaw85, as well as my recommended dose that is 120 pumps a month, 2 months 2.5 bottles, or 2 bottles will last you 50 days or just over 7 weeks. So cheap route is 7 weeks, or 3 bottles and you can go 8 and even push the dose higher toward the end if you wanted.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Honestly if you could push the gear cream and carnitine for 8 weeks it would be ideal then hit all the natty boosters after. Would just be a lot more productive prohormone run. You will just be noticing how good it is actually working when you run out if you only do for 4 weeks.
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I like this thinking!
 
Bike - 10 minutes

Bench
2 x 10 x 95
10 x 135
3 x 175, 205
1 x 235, 260, 280
2 x 5 x 250
10 x 205, 185
15 x 135 (wide grip)

Incline DB press
3 x 10

Machine dips
3 x 12

Laterals
3 x 10+

Rope push downs
3 x 15+

Row - 2000m

Notes
Damn triceps blew up on bench today. Finished off my Phosphatidic acid xt today. One day left of anabolic effect. Then basically I'm down to optimize T, pine pollen, tribulus and alpha gel until gear cream arrives.
 
dapack said:
Bench is still looking good. If your cut is slow no reason to lose any size/ strength.
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slow is the agony. not nearly as much fun as eating more freely and lifting as heavy as possible for 2 years 😅
but it will be much easier since my wife is in on it so our lifestyle will match...
 
Dustin07 said:
slow is the agony. not nearly as much fun as eating more freely and lifting as heavy as possible for 2 years 😅
but it will be much easier since my wife is in on it so our lifestyle will match...
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It is 💯 percent easier when you are not doing it alone. She sounds like a good “cut partner”
 
PolishHamm3r77 said:
It is 💯 percent easier when you are not doing it alone. She sounds like a good “cut partner”
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she is, my concern at the moment is me being the bad partner because I had my boys fishing trip last weekend and I told her I was going to utilize fasting most likely through July, then switch up to a nutritional plan that matched hers, so I wanted to make sure it doesn't frustrate her or throw her off track when I eat a little more freely (but then fast for 30-60hrs on rest days). So far she's OK with it. I think partially because her meal prep is insane right now and she's using all my normal meal prep tuperware so we're going to have to double down when we're both doing it LOL.

She also laughed about how it seems like we save money when I fast. I mentioned last night how much meat we're going to go through in August. It's so ironic if you think about it.
 
Dustin07 said:
she is, my concern at the moment is me being the bad partner because I had my boys fishing trip last weekend and I told her I was going to utilize fasting most likely through July, then switch up to a nutritional plan that matched hers, so I wanted to make sure it doesn't frustrate her or throw her off track when I eat a little more freely (but then fast for 30-60hrs on rest days). So far she's OK with it. I think partially because her meal prep is insane right now and she's using all my normal meal prep tuperware so we're going to have to double down when we're both doing it LOL.

She also laughed about how it seems like we save money when I fast. I mentioned last night how much meat we're going to go through in August. It's so ironic if you think about it.
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Amazon for more prep containers!!!!!! The meat tab at my house is silly. Protein is expensive
 
Dustin07 said:
We are butchering a cow next month and I have mixed feelings lol. Lots of beef in the freezer but $$$$
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What you spend now will save you money later overall in the end. You don’t get it cheaper in smaller portions from the store, or from restaurants.
 
Hyde said:
What you spend now will save you money later overall in the end. You don’t get it cheaper in smaller portions from the store, or from restaurants.
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For sure, final price ends up being less than $2/lb I think on average? Might be a little more this year cause I'm going to pay for the whole thing but give 1/3 to 1/2 to my folks. Thing is the price is the same per lb whether its ground beef, brisket, fillets, ribs etc. And it is nice to just reach into the freezer and thaw something out without having to think about it and shop.

.... that said, I do still like browsing the butcher section at safeway/albertsons to see what they have available ha. My boy and I tend to grab a lb of ground lamb whenever he and I have a boys night to BBQ up some pretzel bun burgers.

PolishHamm3r77 said:
So you have a “Beef Guy” is what you’re telling me. Good concept
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LOL I grew up farming, mom and dad still raise some cattle so our homie hookup is grass fed beef from the family farm.
 
Yeah if you have the storage for it a side of beef, or whole cattle is the way to go.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Honestly if you could push the gear cream and carnitine for 8 weeks it would be ideal then hit all the natty boosters after. Would just be a lot more productive prohormone run. You will just be noticing how good it is actually working when you run out if you only do for 4 weeks.
Click to expand...

OK Gear Cream is supposed to arrive today, just ordered the carnitine and blood pressure XT.
I might start the carnitine a bit early but dont plan to start the gear cream until 8/1 since I like even calendar dates and it gives me more gap between my epi run and then. once I get under way I'll probably double up PCT/Natty supplement inventory and give a second bottle of gear cream a consideration too...

Weighed in at 193.6 today. Would like to see 189.x before I start the gear cream, but it's really an arbitrary number if you think about it. just a goal. probably will have 2 more full 30hr+ fast (rest) days between now and then.
 
Dustin07 said:
OK Gear Cream is supposed to arrive today, just ordered the carnitine and blood pressure XT.
I might start the carnitine a bit early but dont plan to start the gear cream until 8/1 since I like even calendar dates and it gives me more gap between my epi run and then. once I get under way I'll probably double up PCT/Natty supplement inventory and give a second bottle of gear cream a consideration too...

Weighed in at 193.6 today. Would like to see 189.x before I start the gear cream, but it's really an arbitrary number if you think about it. just a goal. probably will have 2 more full 30hr+ fast (rest) days between now and then.
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To be fair if you are trying to conserve money, I would not double up on the natty stuff, you won't need a double PCT, the stuff you have should be good to go, just double up on the Gear Cream. Then run the regular doses of the Natty boosters and the like for your OTC PCT. Save money on the extra boosters and put it where you will get the most bang out of it.
 
Gear cream arrived last night. Today we hosted a charity golf event which I'm still at. It's going pretty well! It was hard for me not to put a pump of gear cream on this morning
 
Took advantage of the IML sale? Nice! Gear cream looks pretty good, and I like the TD carrier they use. Smells pleasant, vanilla-like for their 4-andro at least, not runny or greasy. Looking forward to seeing how this treats you!
 
Segansational said:
Took advantage of the IML sale? Nice! Gear cream looks pretty good, and I like the TD carrier they use. Smells pleasant, vanilla-like for their 4-andro at least, not runny or greasy. Looking forward to seeing how this treats you!
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Na, I wasn't familiar with the product yet, props to Kleen for introducing me to it, but by the time I got through all the reviews I could find online, picking Skraws, brain and reading logs the 30% deal was over so I grabbed Princes 20% referral code. Still grateful for the discount, it's not a cheap TD!


Nutrition right now is "clean". Other than protein, I'm not counting yet. Acting pretty dynamically, utilizing fasting on rest days, cutting carbs and excessive fats right now as I get back to a baseline. Swapping an evening drink for a sparkling water, etc. Just the little things to prep for an August 1 go day.

Weight has been stable at 193.8 past three weigh ins so if I can be a good boy this weekend, I'm gonna be hitting Monday with awesome momentum.

I'm officially out of anabolic effect and Phosphatidic Acid XT as of today so I'm basically raw dogging my workouts with just some All Out preWO I have, a little alpha gel post shower etc.

I can't decide if I should stack anything with the gear cream and carnitine or just start collecting natty supps for post gear cream.

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Yesterday I made myself a bunch of eggs for breakfast. Dad shows up to the golf tourney with a fat egg burrito my mom sent with him for me so I ate it. With sparkling water it felt super filling.

At the banquet we had a western style theme so I skipped the potato salad and sides (other than coleslaw, cause I love coleslaw) in favor of two beef patties on buns for a simple burger. For dinner we skipped pizza and cake at the neighbors bday shindig and came home and had steak and eggs and sparkling water. Cramming the protein and cutting the junk (mostly). I'm a bit surprised to have not gained an ounce though.

Once I start counting macros and calories I wouldn't be surprised if I actually end up increasing my food intake.
 
Deads
10 x 135, 185
5 x 225, 275, 315, 365

RDLs
3 x 8 x 225

Ez bar curls
5 x 12-15


Superset with T-bar rows
5 x 12

Leg extensions
3 x 12

Leg curls
3 x 10

LISS
20 min

Notes
Need to order more chalk!

Sweating like an absolute pig today on the All Out Ultra (not all out sweat).


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It's a fun one when you are soaked by the end!
 
Dustin07 said:
Deads
10 x 135, 185
5 x 225, 275, 315, 365

RDLs
3 x 8 x 225

Ez bar curls
5 x 12-15


Superset with T-bar rows
5 x 12

Leg extensions
3 x 12

Leg curls
3 x 10

LISS
20 min

Notes
Need to order more chalk!

Sweating like an absolute pig today on the All Out Ultra (not all out sweat).


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BLS and Deadlifts! That’s a DAMN FINE DAY!!!
 
Yeah man the beef is the way to go if you got the room.
You running 2 jugs of gear cream or one? Looking forward to hear your experiences on this
 
akboom87 said:
Yeah man the beef is the way to go if you got the room.
You running 2 jugs of gear cream or one? Looking forward to hear your experiences on this
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Since it's new to me I'm a bit apprehensive to run a mega dose but I've learned from undersdosing epi so since the consensus sounds like I should plan on a two bottle run I'm leaning towards picking up another one....

PostWO today, tearing down a deck my wife's ex made that's been rotting. I thought this would go a lot faster, this is blowing up my back and I'm sweating soup

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Dustin07 said:
Since it's new to me I'm a bit apprehensive to run a mega dose but I've learned from undersdosing epi so since the consensus sounds like I should plan on a two bottle run I'm leaning towards picking up another one....

PostWO today, tearing down a deck my wife's ex made that's been rotting. I thought this would go a lot faster, this is blowing up my back and I'm sweating soup

Invalid Link Removed
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Deads and RDL’s now this. THAT’S A BOLD MOVE COTTON! Let’s see if it pays off
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Dustin07 said:
Since it's new to me I'm a bit apprehensive to run a mega dose but I've learned from undersdosing epi so since the consensus sounds like I should plan on a two bottle run I'm leaning towards picking up another one....
Click to expand...

If you spend a single cent more on any natural supplement, instead of a second bottle of real anabolics to put together an actually effective cycle, you are stepping over dollars to pick up dimes.

You can spend $500 on natural supplements and it’s still not going to match a sufficient dose of 1DHEA in lean mass & strength increase.
 
Hyde said:
If you spend a single cent more on any natural supplement, instead of a second bottle of real anabolics to put together an actually effective cycle, you are stepping over dollars to pick up dimes.

You can spend $500 on natural supplements and it’s still not going to match a sufficient dose of 1DHEA in lean mass & strength increase.
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FACTS!!!
 
Hyde said:
If you spend a single cent more on any natural supplement, instead of a second bottle of real anabolics to put together an actually effective cycle, you are stepping over dollars to pick up dimes.

You can spend $500 on natural supplements and it’s still not going to match a sufficient dose of 1DHEA in lean mass & strength increase.
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Well said, this has been something we have all been trying to communicate without overstepping and you just said it best.

He is going to get a taste of what can happen if you are actually on something anabolic and fall in love with that level of progress. Once on the dark or even gray side, it makes much more sense to push the anabolics for gains and the natty stuff for bridging and PCT. He's been over here for a year, time for him to truly enjoy some not so natty gains.

@Dustin07 I would not stress at all over health with these orals and honestly running this at a double dose is not a megadose. The reality is that they have to make the doses lower to appeal to those who think they are saving money, and you might actually get something at the normal dose but anyone in the know knows that double the recommended dose is pretty much required to see a degree of progress in line with expectations of an anabolic PH. Many go much higher, you are basically being told to start at the minimum truly effective dose by doubling it. Most people who run PH's already know this, and expect to spend way more on a cycle than a person running gear or some of the banned designer orals.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Well said, this has been something we have all been trying to communicate without overstepping and you just said it best.

He is going to get a taste of what can happen if you are actually on something anabolic and fall in love with that level of progress. Once on the dark or even gray side, it makes much more sense to push the anabolics for gains and the natty stuff for bridging and PCT. He's been over here for a year, time for him to truly enjoy some not so natty gains.

@Dustin07 I would not stress at all over health with these orals and honestly running this at a double dose is not a megadose. The reality is that they have to make the doses lower to appeal to those who think they are saving money, and you might actually get something at the normal dose but anyone in the know knows that double the recommended dose is pretty much required to see a degree of progress in line with expectations of an anabolic PH. Many go much higher, you are basically being told to start at the minimum truly effective dose by doubling it. Most people who run PH's already know this, and expect to spend way more on a cycle than a person running gear or some of the banned designer orals.
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Crazy how you pay double for half the potency(if that) or maybe paying more for the “legality” of what you are using.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Well said, this has been something we have all been trying to communicate without overstepping and you just said it best.

He is going to get a taste of what can happen if you are actually on something anabolic and fall in love with that level of progress. Once on the dark or even gray side, it makes much more sense to push the anabolics for gains and the natty stuff for bridging and PCT. He's been over here for a year, time for him to truly enjoy some not so natty gains.

@Dustin07 I would not stress at all over health with these orals and honestly running this at a double dose is not a megadose. The reality is that they have to make the doses lower to appeal to those who think they are saving money, and you might actually get something at the normal dose but anyone in the know knows that double the recommended dose is pretty much required to see a degree of progress in line with expectations of an anabolic PH. Many go much higher, you are basically being told to start at the minimum truly effective dose by doubling it. Most people who run PH's already know this, and expect to spend way more on a cycle than a person running gear or some of the banned designer orals.
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Makes a lot of sense. You always said like 900mg+ on epi, and my most recent run was like 600mg+ oral plus a full 400+ TD for an avg 1000-1100/day and it was by far the most noticeable run.

You're getting to me excited and want to get started sooner than planned!
 
Dustin07 said:
I have no reason not to other than trying to space out the end of the epi run from the beginning of this run. Monday is as good a day as any other than that. Maybe I'm mistaken there as well? I "finished" the epi June 1.
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Wut, TD and Epi?!?! Looks like I have some serious catching up to do.
 
Last edited:
195 lbs now! Thick and strong AF, man! You’re putting up some big leagues weight. Agree with others that it might be time to step up to real anabolics so you can truly manifest all your potential!!!
 
Haha at all of the comments above!

So, yes to everything others are saying - but one counterpoint. @Dustin07 being mostly natty, and doing really well on lower doses of PH to date, he might be able to go lower dose on the Gear Cream. Or, ramp it up - say start at label doses first two weeks or so - then see if it makes sense to ramp to double dosing, just because he responds so we'll to TD andros.
 
MrKleen73 said:
To be fair if you are trying to conserve money, I would not double up on the natty stuff, you won't need a double PCT, the stuff you have should be good to go, just double up on the Gear Cream. Then run the regular doses of the Natty boosters and the like for your OTC PCT. Save money on the extra boosters and put it where you will get the most bang out of it.
Click to expand...

I think I missed this post before, but your follow up post just above hit the nail on the head for me. It is an expensive TD, for sure, but that's not my main concern. (especialy since we sold the boat last week, there some $$ savings lol) It was more about running additional/new products I don't have experience with yet and wanting to make sure I was going to come off them OK with my normal PCT regiment since everyone else I know who's run the product is also on TRT. So I'm still learning all of that aspect.
 
Dustin07 said:
I think I missed this post before, but your follow up post just above hit the nail on the head for me. It is an expensive TD, for sure, but that's not my main concern. (especialy since we sold the boat last week, there some $$ savings lol) It was more about running additional/new products I don't have experience with yet and wanting to make sure I was going to come off them OK with my normal PCT regiment since everyone else I know who's run the product is also on TRT. So I'm still learning all of that aspect.
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Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Honestly, your best situation would be to just buy a SERM like Tamoxifen from MA Research, and be ready to roll with it. It would be drastically cheaper and more effective than a Natty PCT. Then you could run the boosters as a bridge once your levels were back up.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Honestly, your best situation would be to just buy a SERM like Tamoxifen from MA Research, and be ready to roll with it. It would be drastically cheaper and more effective than a Natty PCT. Then you could run the boosters as a bridge once your levels were back up.
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And Tamoxifen is mild, really with not any or many sides, but it’s effective.
 
Dustin07 said:
I think I missed this post before, but your follow up post just above hit the nail on the head for me. It is an expensive TD, for sure, but that's not my main concern. (especialy since we sold the boat last week, there some $$ savings lol) It was more about running additional/new products I don't have experience with yet and wanting to make sure I was going to come off them OK with my normal PCT regiment since everyone else I know who's run the product is also on TRT. So I'm still learning all of that aspect.
Click to expand...
You actually are doing it the right way, as far as moving slowly and trying the milder compounds before moving into stronger compounds. And since money really isn’t an issue it makes sense. But it will be interesting when you do try something stronger, with what you have been able to accomplish naturally, because there will be another gear that kicks in. With that said though I still like Epiandro and the way it makes you feel, especially pre workout, and some of the DHEA products like Dermacrine. I still haven’t tried Gear Cream, but it looks solid as well.
 
Bro I’m sorry if I missed this, but if you don’t have some Tamoxifen to use for PCT you will be messing up royally. If you play the game, play it right. And if you’re in your 40s hoping to recover natural production, you damn sure better use the strongest tool at your disposal.
 
gphagan1 said:
You actually are doing it the right way, as far as moving slowly and trying the milder compounds before moving into stronger compounds. And since money really isn’t an issue it makes sense. But it will be interesting when you do try something stronger, with what you have been able to accomplish naturally, because there will be another gear that kicks in. With that said though I still like Epiandro and the way it makes you feel, especially pre workout, and some of the DHEA products like Dermacrine. I still haven’t tried Gear Cream, but it looks solid as well.
Click to expand...

every once in a while I get a hankering to test the dermacrince again since I still have half a bottle but every time I give it a whirl I get the itchy nips, nothing else seems to do that. of course, now it's in my head as well, so there's that reality. I mean I wouldn't say money isn't an issue, I bitch plenty about the inflation and taxes we have lately, lol. But since the wife and I are both on the same kick right now it's essentially our only real extra cirricular expenditure.

Hyde said:
Bro I’m sorry if I missed this, but if you don’t have some Tamoxifen to use for PCT you will be messing up royally. If you play the game, play it right. And if you’re in your 40s hoping to recover natural production, you damn sure better use the strongest tool at your disposal.
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the irony is how ecstatic my wfie and I were when she got the clean bill of health and we pulled Tamoxifen off her post surgery recovery. What's the recommended dosage here ? I assume under the tongue dropper it looks like? I believe she was going to be getting tabs in her rx

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Dustin07 said:
every once in a while I get a hankering to test the dermacrince again since I still have half a bottle but every time I give it a whirl I get the itchy nips, nothing else seems to do that. of course, now it's in my head as well, so there's that reality. I mean I wouldn't say money isn't an issue, I bitch plenty about the inflation and taxes we have lately, lol. But since the wife and I are both on the same kick right now it's essentially our only real extra cirricular expenditure.



the irony is how ecstatic my wfie and I were when she got the clean bill of health and we pulled Tamoxifen off her post surgery recovery. What's the recommended dosage here ? I assume under the tongue dropper it looks like? I believe she was going to be getting tabs in her rx

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I believe 20mg/day as a PCT
 
PolishHamm3r77 said:
I believe 20mg/day as a PCT
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Yep, this right here. Also the second piece of good news here is that any nip issues that might come up will be corrected during your PCT anyway. if I were you, I would order an oral syringe so you can actually be accurate with your dosing, those dropper dispensers are not all that accurate but an oral syringe will do the trick perfectly every time.
 
PolishHamm3r77 said:
I believe 20mg/day as a PCT
Click to expand...
MrKleen73 said:
Yep, this right here. Also the second piece of good news here is that any nip issues that might come up will be corrected during your PCT anyway. if I were you, I would order an oral syringe so you can actually be accurate with your dosing, those dropper dispensers are not all that accurate but an oral syringe will do the trick perfectly every time.
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20mg under the tongue sounds easy enough. I've been reading 2 weeks? would you taper down?
 
Still feeling doms from deck destruction and Saturdays session.


Bench
2 x 10 x 95
3 x 135, 175, 210
1 x 240, 265, 285
2 x 4 x 255
8 x 225
12 x 185
16 x 135

Skullies
3 x 12 x 60lb bar

Seated dips
3 x 12-15

Tricep extensions
3 x 15

Hammer strength inclines
3 x 10-15

Life fitness chest press
3 x 10+

Cardio
20 min LISS

Not my favorite barbell today. Very spinny like an oly bar, no knurling, rings waaaay outside. Could feel it spinning on every rep.

Gym was packed so swapped machines where we could. Wife had one request on the cut, don't lose the pecs

Weight 194 this morning.

New protein powder coming in today for my evening "snack" looking forward to that.
 
Dustin07 said:
Still feeling doms from deck destruction and Saturdays session.


Bench
2 x 10 x 95
3 x 135, 175, 210
1 x 240, 265, 285
2 x 4 x 255
8 x 225
12 x 185
16 x 135

Skullies
3 x 12 x 60lb bar

Seated dips
3 x 12-15

Tricep extensions
3 x 15

Hammer strength inclines
3 x 10-15

Life fitness chest press
3 x 10+

Cardio
20 min LISS

Not my favorite barbell today. Very spinny like an oly bar, no knurling, rings waaaay outside. Could feel it spinning on every rep.

Gym was packed so swapped machines where we could. Wife had one request on the cut, don't lose the pecs

Weight 194 this morning.

New protein powder coming in today for my evening "snack" looking forward to that.
Click to expand...
Nice session……so your wife doesn’t want you to lose the pecs…..sounds like a match made in Heaven, you like big boobs and she likes big pecs…..you guys were made for each other.😎
 
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