The New King of Pre-Workouts Is Almost Here!

thatsuppguy

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Received Oracle Saturday and was confused by the small amount in the tub, but it seems to weigh out right. Will be keep tracking of servings. Anyway, went for 2 scoops on my first try this morning. At first I was worried. I am use to being slammed in the face by a pre or nothing at all. there was a gradual build up and after about 40 minutes I was ready to go. I will say that the energy is really good. I didnt find any peaks or valleys with it, its just smooth and consistent. In fact, I was still awake and not sluggish as usual even at 11 am after taking the dose at 345am. I will be trying again tomorrow for a more demanding workout to test pump. I like the energy and seem to have a lot of endurance, of course that could be from the energy. The flavor is done well and above average. I am older and lived through **** pre's taste, so flavor is really not important to me. Mixes up great, with nothing left behind in the shaker. Those who are on the fence due to Alpha Y, I think you might actually like it. Reminds me of Reign in that fashion, as i dont think it hit that hard in Reign unless you got that tub that it was super dosed. If I was going to use 1 word to describe it, that would work be smooth. Would I buy it again...... will tell you after tomorrows demanding workout. 44 is a tough price point for me, so I am going to need to be blown away on the heavy day tomorrow. I could see myself using this as my midday caffeine at 1 scoop. Anyway, take it for what its work. That is my opinion.
 
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Appreciate it! Glad it treated you well bro ^
 

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I would say slowly ramp up the dose if you can as with any other true 20 servings pre-workout you won't feel the full effectiveness otherwise, especially for the stims. When formulating the pre-workout stim efficacy was the number one priority as the acute effects are the number one priority and therefore doses were meticulously crafted albeit everything is individualistic, we made sure doses there industry high per the ingredients we were allowed to legally use.
There are both pros and cons to listing a product as having 20/40 servings. I noticed that companies started doing this with much greater frequency about 3-4 years ago. Now, it is common. The "pro" is that it makes the product look like it has a lot of servings. This helps with perceived value and boosts sales. The "con" is that people will leave reviews after trying a "40" (i.e. half-powered) serving size and then fail to state that they only took a half-serving, which is what it is really designed to be.

I just had a customer do this with Stage-3Z (a few months ago). He posted a review (on another board) and said that he had to take "4 servings at once" to get good results, when in reality he was using 1/4 of a FULL serving. I have the product listed as containing 20-80 servings (because there is significant variance in how it affects people), but he rated it based on the "80" serving size. Of course, I came into the thread and explained that he was actually taking just 1/4 of a FULL serving, but had I not done that, a bunch if people would've went away thinking that Stage-3Z doesn't work without taking 4X the recommended serving size.

Unfortunately, the general consumer doesn't do math when purchasing products. Rather than determining the total amount of ingredients (per bottle) relative to price, they make their assessment by comparing the number of servings relative to price. This gives great incentive for companies to list their product's as 20/40. I can't blame these companies...because the truth is that most people automatically add value to a product if they see it contains 40 servings...and they automatically subtract value if they see it only has 20 servings.

If the consumer saw things for what they actually are (which is that "20/40" means 20 FULL servings and 40 HALF-servings), companies wouldn't be incentivized to list products as 20/40. They would just list them as 20. In reality, it's almost never financially feasible for a company to make a high-powered pre-workout product with 40 servings at a low-moderate price point. 10 years ago it would have been possible...because the overall dosages were much lower back then, but today the overall dosages and comprehensiveness of pre-workout products has increased dramatically. Therefore, if a company wants to continue selling these products, they either need to increase the price or reduce the number of servings. Some companies increase the price and continue to provide 30 servings, but most companies want to remain within the same price range. If a company wants to remain the same price range, they need to reduce the number of serving to 20 and then list the product as 20/40. There's no dishonesty here. It's up to the customer to read the label and see what each serving size provides relative to the price.

If you compare today's average pre-workout product to those of a decade ago, it's not even close. Sure, some of the older products contained crazy (often illegal) stims, but look at everything else. Look at the original Jacked3D. It was pretty much nothing but a stim-bomb. It got popular because it contained a bunch of DMAA and caffeine. Did it have any pump ingredients? Yes, but they were inferior and low-dosed. Did it have anything for recovery and growth? An undisclosed amount of creatine monohydrate and beta alanine, but not much else. It also contained a few other things, but they weren't very effective and the dose was pitiful. In short, it was nothing more than DMHA and caffeine with some creatine and beta alanine.

These days, pre-workout product category is very diverse. There's something for everyone. We still have the stim-crazy products, but they are (generally speaking) much more well-rounded, containing numerous categories of ingredients at efficacious doses. We also have the less stim-heavy products with unique blends of focus and mood enhancing compounds. And we also have the no-stim products. We have all kinds of unique stuff now and it will only continue to expand.

For anyone considering providing reviews for the new Oracle product, I would suggest trying the full serving prior to doing so, particularly if you felt that a half-serving wasn't strong enough for you. Or, at a minimum, leave a review for both the half and full servings. Either way, in my opinion, it's really not fair to the company to rate a product based on a half-serving without specifically stating that you only took a half-serving. :)
 
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Mike Arnold

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Received Oracle Saturday and was confused by the small amount in the tub, but it seems to weigh out right. Will be keep tracking of servings. Anyway, went for 2 scoops on my first try this morning. At first I was worried. I am use to being slammed in the face by a pre or nothing at all. there was a gradual build up and after about 40 minutes I was ready to go. I will say that the energy is really good. I didnt find any peaks or valleys with it, its just smooth and consistent. In fact, I was still awake and not sluggish as usual even at 11 am after taking the dose at 345am. I will be trying again tomorrow for a more demanding workout to test pump. I like the energy and seem to have a lot of endurance, of course that could be from the energy. The flavor is done well and above average. I am older and lived through **** pre's taste, so flavor is really not important to me. Mixes up great, with nothing left behind in the shaker. Those who are on the fence due to Alpha Y, I think you might actually like it. Reminds me of Reign in that fashion, as i dont think it hit that hard in Reign unless you got that tub that it was super dosed. If I was going to use 1 word to describe it, that would work be smooth. Would I buy it again...... will tell you after tomorrows demanding workout. 44 is a tough price point for me, so I am going to need to be blown away on the heavy day tomorrow. I could see myself using this as my midday caffeine at 1 scoop. Anyway, take it for what its work. That is my opinion.
Container sizes are often chosen for two reasons.

One, if a product is going to be sitting on store shelves, shelf presence needs to be considered. Often, this means choosing a larger container. A company doesn't want its product to be engulfed by other products.

Two, since Covid it has been MUCH more difficult to source plastic containers. Previously, a manufacturer could source pretty much any size container he wanted, with any shape, and with any color. Not today. A lot of stuff is no longer available.

Bottom line: It doesn't matter how much empty space is inside of a container. All that matters is if it contains what it's supposed to. :)
 

Tunaking14

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There are both pros and cons to listing a product as having 20/40 servings. I noticed that companies started doing this with much greater frequency about 3-4 years ago. Now, it is common. The "pro" is that it makes the product look like it has a lot of servings. This helps with perceived value and boosts sales. The "con" is that people will leave reviews after trying a "40" (i.e. half-powered) serving size and then fail to state that they only took a half-serving, which is what it is really designed to be.

I just had a customer do this with Stage-3Z (a few months ago). He posted a review (on another board) and said that he had to take "4 servings at once" to get good results, when in reality he was using 1/4 of a FULL serving. I have the product listed as containing 20-80 servings (because there is significant variance in how it affects people), but he rated it based on the "80" serving size. Of course, I came into the thread and explained that he was actually taking just 1/4 of a FULL serving, but had I not done that, a bunch if people would've went away thinking that Stage-3Z doesn't work without taking 4X the recommended serving size.

Unfortunately, the general consumer doesn't do math when purchasing products. Rather than determining the total amount of ingredients (per bottle) relative to price, they make their assessment by comparing the number of servings relative to price. This gives great incentive for companies to list their product's as 20/40. I can't blame these companies...because the truth is that most people automatically add value to a product if they see it contains 40 servings...and they automatically subtract value if they see it only has 20 servings.

If the consumer saw things for what they actually are (which is that "20/40" means 20 FULL servings and 40 HALF-servings), companies wouldn't be incentivized to list products as 20/40. They would just list them as 20. In reality, it's almost never financially feasible for a company to make a high-powered pre-workout product with 40 servings at a low-moderate price point. 10 years ago it would have been possible...because the overall dosages were much lower back then, but today the overall dosages and comprehensiveness of pre-workout products has increased dramatically. Therefore, if a company wants to continue selling these products, they either need to increase the price or reduce the number of servings. Some companies increase the price and continue to provide 30 servings, but most companies want to remain within the same price range. If a company wants to remain the same price range, they need to reduce the number of serving to 20 and then list the product as 20/40. There's no dishonesty here. It's up to the customer to read the label and see what each serving size provides relative to the price.

If you compare today's average pre-workout product to those of a decade ago, it's not even close. Sure, some of the older products contained crazy (often illegal) stims, but look at everything else. Look at the original Jacked3D. It was pretty much nothing but a stim-bomb. It got popular because it contained a bunch of DMAA and caffeine. Did it have any pump ingredients? Yes, but they were inferior and low-dosed. Did it have anything for recovery and growth? An undisclosed amount of creatine monohydrate and beta alanine, but not much else. It also contained a few other things, but they weren't very effective and the dose was pitiful. In short, it was nothing more than DMHA and caffeine with some creatine and beta alanine.

These days, pre-workout product category is very diverse. There's something for everyone. We still have the stim-crazy products, but they are (generally speaking) much more well-rounded, containing numerous categories of ingredients at efficacious doses. We also have the less stim-heavy products with unique blends of focus and mood enhancing compounds. And we also have the no-stim products. We have all kinds of unique stuff now and it will only continue to expand.

For anyone considering providing reviews for the new Oracle product, I would suggest trying the full serving prior to doing so, particularly if you felt that a half-serving wasn't strong enough for you. Or, at a minimum, leave a review for both the half and full servings. Either way, in my opinion, it's really not fair to the company to rate a product based on a half-serving without specifically stating that you only took a half-serving. :)
Great points. The only thing I would add (correct me if I am wrong) but it seemed like back in the day most products pretty much had 30 full servings. I never saw one that said 30/60. Most of us back then could do the math if we only wanted to take 1/2 serving if something was too intense at a full serving. You are correct that if you review a product it should be with a full serving taken!
 
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Sponsored log is started here

 
Segansational

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I would say slowly ramp up the dose if you can as with any other true 20 servings pre-workout you won't feel the full effectiveness otherwise, especially for the stims. When formulating the pre-workout stim efficacy was the number one priority as the acute effects are the number one priority and therefore doses were meticulously crafted albeit everything is individualistic, we made sure doses there industry high per the ingredients we were allowed to legally use.
Used 1.5 scoops Oracle this morning.

20 mins into taking this, beta alanine tingles were intense. Stim matrix seemed to kick in decently well, but not overwhelmingly a rush of energy, but a more gentle alertness. Definitely felt a harder chest pounding sensation at 1.5 scoops (vs initial 1), may test 2 full scoops yet. TBD, but so far the alpha-y has not been rate limiting which is a huge plus.
 
Afi140

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Used 1.5 scoops Oracle this morning.

20 mins into taking this, beta alanine tingles were intense. Stim matrix seemed to kick in decently well, but not overwhelmingly a rush of energy, but a more gentle alertness. Definitely felt a harder chest pounding sensation at 1.5 scoops (vs initial 1), may test 2 full scoops yet. TBD, but so far the alpha-y has not been rate limiting which is a huge plus.
Appreciate the feedback bro. Glad it’s treating you well so far.
 
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Container sizes are often chosen for two reasons.

One, if a product is going to be sitting on store shelves, shelf presence needs to be considered. Often, this means choosing a larger container. A company doesn't want its product to be engulfed by other products.

Two, since Covid it has been MUCH more difficult to source plastic containers. Previously, a manufacturer could source pretty much any size container he wanted, with any shape, and with any color. Not today. A lot of stuff is no longer available.

Bottom line: It doesn't matter how much empty space is inside of a container. All that matters is if it contains what it's supposed to. :)
Thank you for covering a lot of inside information that we brand owners face. There are things I love about the industry (like creating awesome products, researching and innovating, and deliberately putting out products I know that one up (at the very least) the benchmark competition, but things like printers, shipping, and other external factors do not share that same passion nor responsibility at times which can bottleneck the whole system and make things frustratingly inefficient)
As a supplement user myself, I will need to check out some of the stuff you create for personal use and see if there are even opportunities to work together in the future.
I also have some international distribution networks that I could pass information over to. 😤 🙏🏻
 
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Great points. The only thing I would add (correct me if I am wrong) but it seemed like back in the day most products pretty much had 30 full servings. I never saw one that said 30/60. Most of us back then could do the math if we only wanted to take 1/2 serving if something was too intense at a full serving. You are correct that if you review a product it should be with a full serving taken!
even when they were 30 servings their true cogs was more like 1/2 of what the cogs on 20 serves are today. Look at products like nano vapor that has a million ingredients with the infinity symbol and small prop blend lol
 
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If you haven’t already join the olympus labs community on Facebook, it’s where we’re trying to grow our brand to consumer dialog since our IG has been giving us issues.
Feedback taken on Oracle posted today
E8F17483-BDC5-4F3E-9A80-A78E39243715.png
 

Mike Arnold

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Great points. The only thing I would add (correct me if I am wrong) but it seemed like back in the day most products pretty much had 30 full servings. I never saw one that said 30/60. Most of us back then could do the math if we only wanted to take 1/2 serving if something was too intense at a full serving. You are correct that if you review a product it should be with a full serving taken!
Yes, pre-workout products were mostly 30 servings in the past, but the point I was trying to make is that, for the average consumer, there is a disconnect between value and serving count. Most pre-workout formulas today utilize way higher doses and are more comprehensive, which has forced companies to make 20 full-serving products, rather than 30 full-serving products (if they want to remain around the same price point).

However, since the typical consumer is more likely to assess a product's value by comparing serving count relative to price, rather than the total amount of bottled ingredients relative to price, it incentivizes companies to list their product as 20/40, rather than just 20 servings. The company knows that "20/40" really means 20 full servings and 40 half-servings, but they don't want to say this because of the general lack of consumer education. Of course, some people will actually end up preferring a half-serving of some products, but that's besides the point.

The point is that if more consumers realized that today's typical 20-serving pre-workout product actually provides a much greater amount of total actives (per bottle) than yesteryear's 30 serving products, companies wouldn't be nearly as incentivized to list products as 20/40. :)
 
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Used 1.5 scoops Oracle this morning.

20 mins into taking this, beta alanine tingles were intense. Stim matrix seemed to kick in decently well, but not overwhelmingly a rush of energy, but a more gentle alertness. Definitely felt a harder chest pounding sensation at 1.5 scoops (vs initial 1), may test 2 full scoops yet. TBD, but so far the alpha-y has not been rate limiting which is a huge plus.
And, last review here at 2 scoops this morning:

Energy has been good. Smooth and clean, very low jitters, even with the alpha-y at 2 scoops. Nothing hard hitting or rush-like if you're after that, just overall alertness. Pump is probably low to moderate, but no alpha-y issues like I normally have even at lower doses in other pre's, which is a huge plus. Maybe slight increased sweating. My vascularity today was good, although I wouldn't evaluate this for pumps really. Beta alanine tingles came on fast again, but with moderate effect. Overall, I'd rate this a good product for just general energy needs, and will be adding to my rotation.
 
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Sounds great. Would really loved to have seen you log this with AlphaBulk in conjunction
 
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Sounds great. Would really loved to have seen you log this with AlphaBulk in conjunction
Yeah, it sounds like the limited AB feedback I've seen so far has been positive, particularly around pumps and a recomp type effect. So I think you're right that the two together would be a nice stack to complement each other.
 

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Have done 2 scoops several times now and have found it to be tolerable for the alpha y. It’s clean energy and enjoyable. Echoing what others have said it’s definitely not in your face or what I would reach for on a day when I need something to kick me to get to the gym and workout. That said it’s a decent pre. Excited to see what else could be done with Genisten or if there would be a way to prolong it. I feel like the initial euphoria of Oracle wears off after an hr or so.

On a different note, I’m really confused with the weight of the powder, tub, scoop. I’m not trying to create drama here but I’m concerned about what happened when these were delayed and “had flavor stuff added” or whatever was stated by OL Rep. Ol rep said label was incorrect and should be 120 grams. My full tub was less than 100. Also I have a very accurate scale down to .001 mg and a full scoop weighs ~5g. Yet a single serving is supposed to be 3g. Idk, a lot of weird stuff going on here and I can confidently say that there’s no way in hell there’s 40 scoops in my tub. Again, not trying to bash or create drama, just want to bring awareness to this for other users. Maybe my tubs were a fluke or I somehow got a different scooper but interesting to say the least. Can’t say I’ll be running to purchase this again at it’s full price that’s for sure.
 

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