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The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log

bigbob21 said:
what do you all think of Layne's new research findings...
CANT POST LINKS BC OF LACK OF POSTS ON THIS FORUM, BUT CHECK OUT YOUTUBE: "Layne Norton 2012 ISSN Research Poster Presentation"

For those who don't wanna watch the video: he explains the results of an 11 week study on rats, eating the same calories/macronutrients with only difference between 2 of 3 groups (1 control group) being the total protein % in the meals. in group 2 the meals were all the same %. In group 3, the meals were 15%, 15% and 70%. (similar to our IF diets)

The results show that total protein synthesis for the day was much lower in the low, low, high group than in the evenly distributed group.
The large protein meal at the end of the day did add up to the same total nitrogen as the evenly distributed meals, but did not provide a larger protein synthetic response compared to a smaller protein meal.

My take on this: I think he's basically saying, the myth of "you cant digest more than 30g of protein" isnt true per say, but its prolly somewhat close to the truth. I mean not the 30g bit, but eating a 150g at a time, seems to not make much of a difference when compared to a meal half the size. :( FML I'm trying to bulk w/ IF right now....
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I go against what Martin says and use bcaas daily during my fast.

Layne also tweeted an article that basically said IF is very suitable for some people.

I think it comes down to your priority of goals and how much of a difference in terms of muscle gain the increased protein synthesis from even meals would yield.
 
Distilled Water said:
Lol, you have no idea how good that sounds right now! I was thinking BBQ chicken sandwiches on Ezekiel buns.

Yes sir, 2k is correct. Keeping fat down would be my concern. Trying to get 2k with under 25gr fat is a lot of clean food. Guess I'll just have to keep playin with recipes.
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Dude just set things up how you want to. Don't over analyze it.

It's pointless to try and hit some ridiculous macro requirement like that.

Lower protein and/or carbs some and bump fat.

I've been literally eating mostly carbs/fat with protein at like 150g max.

Yesterday I ate 2lbs of bbq Chinese pork(1lb on 2 meals) fried rice, 10 rice Krispy treats, some jelly beans, bag of peanut m&M's, and half a bag of baked cheetos,bowl of coco puffs lol

That was the most protein I ate in a long time and probably still only 200g.
 
So much has been going on since I left -___-

I'm happy to say in the past month I turned 3 people into LeanGainers ...

I learned 2 things as well ... "Don't sweat it bro"
If I wanna have a cheat binge day make sure I hit my protein grams ...

Enjoy ur life and don't be a slave of food ... If all u do is hit ur protein (to prevent ur body from eating its own protein) and the rest eat as u please up to ur daily intake is met who cares if it's 75/25 50/50 25/75 or **** even 99/1 (carb/fat) ratio ... If ur under calorie ull loose fat, if ur over calories ull gain mass 50/50 (fat/muscle)

Lift heavy if u hit Plateaus eat more keep it sole and get ur proper rest ...

But u must must must must count calories too many ppl try to get away from this ... On days that I wanna binge like a MOFO I fast 20 hours and feast for 4 ...

Anyways just a few tips from my experience ... Some may agree and some may disagree ... But I used to over stress about everything ... Thinking too much about **** stresses u and that will just make ur life miserable ... Watch me enjoy my AMP sugar free during my fast while I rub my six pack ...
 
what style training are you guys doing while on LG IF? Ive read the site, Mark only suggests about 5 different moves? is this correct?
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Yesterday I ate 2lbs of bbq Chinese pork(1lb on 2 meals) fried rice, 10 rice Krispy treats, some jelly beans, bag of peanut m&M's, and half a bag of baked cheetos,bowl of coco puffs lol

That was the most protein I ate in a long time and probably still only 200g.
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Have I told you lately how much I hate you.....
 
Distilled Water said:
Have I told you lately how much I hate you.....
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Lol why? Are you in contest prep right now?

Dude even when dieting I'm pretty loose with food selection as long as I can hit my macros.

When you only eat 2 meals like I did yesterday you can fit a tremendous amount of ****.
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Lol why? Are you in contest prep right now?

Dude even when dieting I'm pretty loose with food selection as long as I can hit my macros.

When you only eat 2 meals like I did yesterday you can fit a tremendous amount of ****.
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Yeah man 5 weeks out, just ate some unseasoned grilled chicken and green beans. Yum lol
 
Flexappeal said:
what style training are you guys doing while on LG IF? Ive read the site, Mark only suggests about 5 different moves? is this correct?
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Whatever works for u bro ... That's a different thread type of talk ... LG is for anyone between a marathon runner to a power lifter to a MMA fighter ... I like lifting heavy with chain and ish ... Hate cable machines (maybe for flyes)
 
Have been on LG for 5 or 6 months now, almost lost track its like second nature. Got to read up on this thread to see how close I am to the "true" LGs. I know I messed around with it a little bit. Good stuff either way.
 
John Smeton said:
Marc lobiner says it all here-everyone needs to watch
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Agreed there is def. More than 1 way to do things but if it works great. Like the old saying if it aint broke dont fix it
 
John Smeton said:
Marc lobiner says it all here-everyone needs to watch
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Liked what he had to say.. personally I have tried a lot of things and nothing has come close to IF ... so I am on it till I find something better...
 
live to lift said:
Agreed there is def. More than 1 way to do things but if it works great. Like the old saying if it aint broke dont fix it
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its true if you go out attacking someone with how they are wrong because of _____ . The problem isn't that people attack them, the problem is those people are at the same time spouting "the only way you can ____ is to _____". The meal frequency thing is the most common. And Marc is wrong, Layne has stated that intermittent fasting is preferable.

yes 5g leucine an hour maximizes protein synthesis, but it doesn't help with insulin sensitivity. IF definitely absolutely with no question leaves you with better insulin sensitivity than any other feeding pattern.
 
EasyEJL said:
its true if you go out attacking someone with how they are wrong because of _____ . The problem isn't that people attack them, the problem is those people are at the same time spouting "the only way you can ____ is to _____". The meal frequency thing is the most common. And Marc is wrong, Layne has stated that intermittent fasting is preferable.

yes 5g leucine an hour maximizes protein synthesis, but it doesn't help with insulin sensitivity. IF definitely absolutely with no question leaves you with better insulin sensitivity than any other feeding pattern.
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It may be that eating large amount of protein in one sitting is not optimal but the people who do well on LG are very efficient body types, so this tends not to be the main issue, the main issue is keeping body fat lower.
 
Quite honestly I've dieted a million different ways over the years. What I've noticed is if things are structured correctly no matter the ideals the results are fairly similar.

From there it comes down to preference. What foods you like to eat, what fits into your schedule, etc.

For me, not looking to be Mr O, I'm going to do whatever let's me live a semi normal and enjoyable life.

I've done the micro managing, stressed over the most minute details and just don't want to ever be there again.

If that means leaving 2lb of muscle on the table a year, fine.

I haven't even thought about what I am eating for months. I literally eat whatever I feel like.

Granted if I wanted to diet down a few % bf I'd get a little more calculated, but I'll never remove foods I enjoy ever again.
 
DreamWeaver said:
It may be that eating large amount of protein in one sitting is not optimal but the people who do well on LG are very efficient body types, so this tends not to be the main issue, the main issue is keeping body fat lower.
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well, given that there is plenty of documentation out there showing that as far as bodybuilder types go, they are eating far more protein than necessary to begin with, its not like you have to shoot for 2g/lb. I'm around where frank is, .75g/lb, so basically 2 meals of each having 75g+ of protein.

I'm generally in agreement with the tone marc took of not trying to make someone do something different, but the problem is that those people are the ones that hit new people with "you got to have 8 meals a day to rev up your metabolism" and other broscience that isn't true. People are looking for and want the most results with the least amount of effort, and the 6-8 micromanaged meals surely is not that.
 
This thread is/has been a great read, and while I might have missed the answer I'm looking for, I'll ask anyways.....

Is there any consensus to what an ideal routine would be while IFing on a recomp?

I'm thinking of trying 5x5, any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks!
 
dfrancin said:
This thread is/has been a great read, and while I might have missed the answer I'm looking for, I'll ask anyways.....

Is there any consensus to what an ideal routine would be while IFing on a recomp?

I'm thinking of trying 5x5, any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks!
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The generic answer is, nothing like an ideal routine, only what works best for you. But the IFLeanGains guy himself said that he and all of his clients do lot's of compounds with none/minimal assistance work, so you're probably on the right track
 
Just keep in mind if your goal is weight loss or recomp and you're lifting 4-5 days a week you're going to have to factor that in. For example you can't just eat 20% above maintenance 4-5 days and expect you're going to recomp.

The general guidelines are accounting for a 3 day split.
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Just keep in mind if your goal is weight loss or recomp and you're lifting 4-5 days a week you're going to have to factor that in. For example you can't just eat 20% above maintenance 4-5 days and expect you're going to recomp.

The general guidelines are accounting for a 3 day split.
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Nicely pointed out, some people don't seem to understand this lol
In the end, it's a matter of cals in vs cals out
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Just keep in mind if your goal is weight loss or recomp and you're lifting 4-5 days a week you're going to have to factor that in. For example you can't just eat 20% above maintenance 4-5 days and expect you're going to recomp.

The general guidelines are accounting for a 3 day split.
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Seems simple to us, but some dont know that so good thing u point that out ...
Recomp- Think of it as for every +20 u have to have -20 ... So if u work out 4 times a week u may have to do +20/-26.8 or some **** lol ... If u do 5 times a week an u wanna be stubborn and do +20 ull do +20/-50 (for those 2 days off) ... Other wise u can do some like a +10/-25 ... I hope that helps to make it make sense ... If u have 4 days of +20 that equals to +80 a week so u need -80 that week; u have to split that -80 into the 3 rest days ...
 
Vote4pedro said:
Seems simple to us, but some dont know that so good thing u point that out ...
Recomp- Think of it as for every +20 u have to have -20 ... So if u work out 4 times a week u may have to do +20/-26.8 or some **** lol ... If u do 5 times a week an u wanna be stubborn and do +20 ull do +20/-50 (for those 2 days off) ... Other wise u can do some like a +10/-25 ... I hope that helps to make it make sense ... If u have 4 days of +20 that equals to +80 a week so u need -80 that week; u have to split that -80 into the 3 rest days ...
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You are talking about total calories balancing out to whatever your weekly Maintanance would add up too correct? I'm not sure if I'm reading it right.
 
Vote4pedro said:
Seems simple to us, but some dont know that so good thing u point that out ...
Recomp- Think of it as for every +20 u have to have -20 ... So if u work out 4 times a week u may have to do +20/-26.8 or some **** lol ... If u do 5 times a week an u wanna be stubborn and do +20 ull do +20/-50 (for those 2 days off) ... Other wise u can do some like a +10/-25 ... I hope that helps to make it make sense ... If u have 4 days of +20 that equals to +80 a week so u need -80 that week; u have to split that -80 into the 3 rest days ...
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That isn't correct. If LG is based on a 3 day split for recomp you technically have 4 days at UNDER maintenance.(as it is laid out that is).
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Granted if I wanted to diet down a few % bf I'd get a little more calculated, but I'll never remove foods I enjoy ever again.
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With this attitude youll never be able to step onstage and compete because you must do whatever it takes pre contest to look your best- and that takes a lot of learning and experience. Committ yourself to do a show and youll learn a ton every time you do it

I do this lifestyle more extreme than most have been dedicated this way for ten years- counting my protein grams everyday-that is just who I am. Since I started competing a few years ago I know what works for myself and what does not though extensive of reading many articles, books, learning from people better than me at bodybuilding. I know what works for me and does it work for others-sure does

start counting your calories, when cutting hard- 1.5 and up to 2 grams..when more carbs are present 1.2-1.5 grams, eating every 2-3 hours with bcaa's in between, hitting the heavy slag not missing a workout, getting up to drink a shake and getting nice deep sleep and youll see some incredible changes.

we are all in this area to improve ourselves, some people are not as extreme as others, some are. Find what works for you and run with the wind bro
 
John Smeton said:
With this attitude youll never be able to step onstage and compete because you must do whatever it takes pre contest to look your best- and that takes a lot of learning and experience. Committ yourself to do a show and youll learn a ton every time you do it

I do this lifestyle more extreme than most have been dedicated this way for ten years- counting my protein grams everyday-that is just who I am. Since I started competing a few years ago I know what works for myself and what does not though extensive of reading many articles, books, learning from people better than me at bodybuilding. I know what works for me and does it work for others-sure does

start counting your calories, when cutting hard- 1.5 and up to 2 grams..when more carbs are present 1.2-1.5 grams, eating every 2-3 hours with bcaa's in between, hitting the heavy slag not missing a workout, getting up to drink a shake and getting nice deep sleep and youll see some incredible changes.

we are all in this area to improve ourselves, some people are not as extreme as others, some are. Find what works for you and run with the wind bro
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LOL.. Not to be a dick here, but you are telling me nothing I don't know. I have BEEN you, for many years. I have counted every last calorie I put in my mouth, carried around tupperware, sat at anniversay dinners with my wife and drank water, and ate my food in the parking lot after I left. I have missed birthdays, holidays, bla bla.. I have done it for 10+ years myself.

I have been selfish, and self absorbed. I look at the past me and think to myself "Wtf was I thinking". Now if someone makes me cookies, I won't be a selfish prick, and I will eat them, because I CAN..;)

I have worked with some of the top prep coaches, I know what is what. I have gotten myself in shape, and I have gotten countless others in shape.

What I am telling you is I am in better shape NOW, then ever. And I am not stressing it. I don't even think about it.

If I wanted to start dieting tomorrow, I would do as I have done a thousand times before, and do it. It's nothing.

Again not trying to be a dick, but I was in better condition on my last diet, not even trying to get super lean, eating how I do, than you are on stage.

So please don't quote me, trying to school me. heh
 
Frank Reynolds said:
LOL.. Not to be a dick here, but you are telling me nothing I don't know. I have BEEN you, for many years. I have counted every last calorie I put in my mouth, carried around tupperware, sat at anniversay dinners with my wife and drank water, and ate my food in the parking lot after I left. I have missed birthdays, holidays, bla bla.. I have done it for 10+ years myself.

I have been selfish, and self absorbed. I look at the past me and think to myself "Wtf was I thinking". Now if someone makes me cookies, I won't be a selfish prick, and I will eat them, because I CAN..;)

I have worked with some of the top prep coaches, I know what is what. I have gotten myself in shape, and I have gotten countless others in shape.

What I am telling you is I am in better shape NOW, then ever. And I am not stressing it. I don't even think about it.

If I wanted to start dieting tomorrow, I would do as I have done a thousand times before, and do it. It's nothing.

Again not trying to be a dick, but I was in better condition on my last diet, not even trying to get super lean, eating how I do, than you are on stage.

So please don't quote me, trying to school me. heh
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Glad its working for you. Im eating a pizza as we speak and eat one everyday and stay 10 %-mind you this pizza is a leanbodypizza with 50 grams protein, 40 carbs and 10 fat , im still enjoying not being in pre contest as well. and sometimes eat a cookie. I eat low fat brownies and all kinds of lower fat yummy stuff post workout meal. In my opinion changing foods up is good and I generally eat slow burning stuff pre contest or when I want to keep lean/lean up. As much as I enjoy my food recipes and nice tasting stuff I count it and keep tabs on my bodyfat levels as ive learned its so much easier to just stay lean (10-12% year round on a machine I use at my gym) and you can get away with more cheatfoods when lean.
 
Glad it's working out for you...lol I am not a BB'er, more of a powerlifter, and still stay in that BF range year round myself. I would wager I am in similar, if not better shape than you right now.

But all that doesn't matter. My point is don't make assumptions about what a persons commitment level is or isnt, and what results they get or don't get. And lastly don't try to assume a lack of experience or knowledge because I choose, to do things different. ;)
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Glad it's working out for you...lol I am not a BB'er, more of a powerlifter, and still stay in that BF range year round myself. I would wager I am in similar, if not better shape than you right now.

But all that doesn't matter. My point is don't make assumptions about what a persons commitment level is or isnt, and what results they get or don't get. And lastly don't try to assume a lack of experience or knowledge because I choose, to do things different. ;)
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just add me on facebook-yes this is my name
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June 24th.

also the fact I need very little anabolics and got large and in charge without ever using a single hormone. I can do what many call low dose cycle(i use otc only and always have) and still make incredible strides due to nutrition being on point
 
*****s... Just kidding. Oh no frank you have to post a picture now to measure up... What are you gona do?
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Sorry don't have face book.

You have good structure, I'll say that.. Can't build that...;)
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John smerton doing your dance. Upload a picture! Put the money where your mouth is hehe lol
 
Quite honestly I have nothing to prove.. ;) I don't like having my pics floating around on line.

Kleen, DW, and numerous other vets have seen my pics. I do exist.
 
today was day 4 and i broke my fast at 14 hours instead of 16...The first 3 days weren't that bad, and today it finally hit me!! I think i may try a daily 14 hour fast, breaking it with 2 scoops of isopure...50g PRO , 0 Carb....Then eating around 12-1 (fast starts at 8pm)...Sounds like i should still get some benefits from it instead of eating all day long and always going over calories. Im a night eater , So its nice to have a bank load of calories i still need to eat when 4pm rolls around. I find no need whatsoever to go over calories now, in fact most nights I'm just trying to get the last of it down at 7:45pm
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Quite honestly I have nothing to prove.. ;) I don't like having my pics floating around on line.

Kleen, DW, and numerous other vets have seen my pics. I do exist.
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Lol haha okay
 
My stove burnt down last night and I couldn't prepare my post-workout meal. It was pretty disastrous. Just ended up preparing a big thing of oatmeal and protein powder with 10g of fish oil, also ate some figs.
 
ive been running my slightly modified version of this. i follow an approx 16hour fasting pushing it to 18hours or so on weekends so i can sit and eat more on weekends. i hit a protein # of about 200g (im 214atm), fats i cycle between 75 and 110g and carbs are like 125 on low days and anywhere from 175-250 on weights days. exception being weekends i can hit 300-350 and ill lower pro to like 175g if needed. i do work out just about every weekend and try to hit my 20 mins cardio on these days.

its been going very well. im coming back from injury but strength is increasing, scale is decreasing and mirror is looking good.

i havent been following some online calcs i found regarding rest and work days macros and doing what i am finding works for me but it may be putting me in a larger deficit. cardio is min with 10 mins WU and prob another hour spread throughout week with a couple 20 mins sessions in there. i recently raised it to like 2k cals on off days and 2500 cals on days. most weeks i do have a cheat meal that may be adding anywhere from 500-1k cals. if i dont have the cheat meal like this past weekend, i do raise my weekend cals to say 2800 one day and 3200 the next. losing a solid 2 lbs a week so guessing im doing it decent.

figure when i lose another 10 lbs i will slow it down if needed but by then maybe my deficit will be less.

this is a great way for me to live! i hope when im lean enough i can find my real maint which i hope should be about 3k at 200 lbs.

Torobestia said:
My stove burnt down last night and I couldn't prepare my post-workout meal. It was pretty disastrous. Just ended up preparing a big thing of oatmeal and protein powder with 10g of fish oil, also ate some figs.
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sorry to hear!
 
Distilled Water said:
Dudes in great shape, no homo.
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Oh no I know, I was being sarcastic. From what I remember he is a good guy, and from some old stuff I read he knows his crap and is a beast.


I wonder how eating a ton of Mexican right at the end of my 8 hours will do me? And I broke fast today way early. Worked a weird shift and had to lift early am, I usually lift around 11 am because I work nights. We will see how I feel tomorrow. (other then full of crappy Mexican food)
 
It's getting hard for me to hit macros , especially on training days.....I need 3000 calories on training day, I'm used to eating 2300-2400 clean through a course of a whole day including late night snacking. Now , I gotta get it all down in 8 hours! I'm thinking I need to eat a little dirty to get them all?! Fast food, pizza? Is this what it takes?
Years ago when I was bulking, I remember adding a Celeste pizza to 2 of my daily meals just to gain 1000 cals.
 
Flexappeal said:
It's getting hard for me to hit macros , especially on training days.....I need 3000 calories on training day, I'm used to eating 2300-2400 clean through a course of a whole day including late night snacking. Now , I gotta get it all down in 8 hours! I'm thinking I need to eat a little dirty to get them all?! Fast food, pizza? Is this what it takes?
Years ago when I was bulking, I remember adding a Celeste pizza to 2 of my daily meals just to gain 1000 cals.
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3000/day....pshht, Child please! Lol, read through the thread. Guys give a lot of pointers to hit their macros.
 
Distilled Water said:
3000/day....pshht, Child please! Lol, read through the thread. Guys give a lot of pointers to hit their macros.
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I agree, 3000 is easy. I can do a couple clean 2k cal meals a day no problem.
 
Legacyfighter said:
I agree, 3000 is easy. I can do a couple clean 2k cal meals a day no problem.
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Can you give a example of this.
 
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