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The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log

live to lift said:
Well im cycling right now i am visually leaner yet weigh the same
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Then its a win win dude...You are losing fat, those are the pounds that are going away...but at the same time you ARE still building muscle , thus the weight evens out. Thus...a successful recomp.
 
Post workout meal. Oatmeal + Truetein protein pancakes.
1856 kCal
200g protein
216g carbs
20g fat

Invalid Link Removed
 
daniel11 said:
Post workout meal. Oatmeal + Truetein protein pancakes.
1856 kCal
200g protein
216g carbs
20g fat

<img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=58227"/>
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Om-Motha****ing-Nom! Lol ... Im also a big Breakfast post work out type of guy, but I only get maybe 3 pancakes with 50 grams of pro,
 
Yo
Anybody else counts supplements in their calories? Between fish oil, Vitamins and Creatine I'm getting 140 calories o.O ...
That's a mother ****ing chicken breast lol ... Thoughts?
 
Vote4pedro said:
Yo
Anybody else counts supplements in their calories? Between fish oil, Vitamins and Creatine I'm getting 140 calories o.O ...
That's a mother ****ing chicken breast lol ... Thoughts?
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I just started counting them. I am trying to track macros better and not just calories(but tuff while deployed). So I get 80 cals in oil supps. I am trying to get to single digit BF before i redeplo so everything counts. If I was bulking I wouldn't count.
 
ArmyLife said:
I just started counting them. I am trying to track macros better and not just calories(but tuff while deployed). So I get 80 cals in oil supps. I am trying to get to single digit BF before i redeplo so everything counts. If I was bulking I wouldn't count.
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Hahaha gotta be carefull with that ChowHall food, they put oil in everything like its ****ing water ... I used to buy tons of jerky, tuna, canned chicken and mass gainers, only ate salad eggs and the fruit from there every time I've deployed
Frank Reynolds said:
Makes zero difference if you count you count them or not, so long as you're consistent.
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12g of fat on fish oil don't make a difference? What if my intake calls for 30-35 g on low fat day? That literally cuts it in half
 
Vote4pedro said:
Hahaha gotta be carefull with that ChowHall food, they put oil in everything like its ****ing water ... I used to buy tons of jerky, tuna, canned chicken and mass gainers, only ate salad eggs and the fruit from there every time I've deployed

12g of fat on fish oil don't make a difference? What if my intake calls for 30-35 g on low fat day? That literally cuts it in half
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It's all relative. If you don't count it and need to drop calories then drop them. Your 30-35 g is an arbitrary macro target you set.

It's not rocket science.

Do you think everything you calculate is the exact calorie content your body sees? No. It is a reflection of it. The point is if you are consistent it doesn't matter. When you need an adjustment you base it on the figures you use to calculate calories.

I only count macros personally. I don't count calories. Ie. Carbs in pb, fat in chicken, etc. Doesn't matter because I never count these.
 
Frank Reynolds said:
It's all relative. If you don't count it and need to drop calories then drop them. Your 30-35 g is an arbitrary macro target you set.

It's not rocket science.

Do you think everything you calculate is the exact calorie content your body sees? No. It is a reflection of it. The point is if you are consistent it doesn't matter. When you need an adjustment you base it on the figures you use to calculate calories.

I only count macros personally. I don't count calories. Ie. Carbs in pb, fat in chicken, etc. Doesn't matter because I never count these.
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Right, I mean it's what I've done all along, I know we talked about u not counting veggies as calories or carbs before, and I do ... But I was asking more as if those calories are actually used as energy, cuz of they r not, then it wouldn't make sence to count em ...
 
i am going to start lean gains this week. i consume most of my calories around the window of time shortly before and after lifting, so the plan seems to make a great deal of sense.

i like the idea of dropping some bodyfat, but i am more interested in a recomp and then growth. how effective has leans gains been for you in terms of adding lean muscle mass?
 
@57 said:
i am going to start lean gains this week. i consume most of my calories around the window of time shortly before and after lifting, so the plan seems to make a great deal of sense.

i like the idea of dropping some bodyfat, but i am more interested in a recomp and then growth. how effective has leans gains been for you in terms of adding lean muscle mass?
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I don't have pictures to show. But while on a cut even though I am at a larger deficit, I am losing only 3/4 a pound a week but my strength is slowly improving. I see a reduction in abdominal fat. It may be that I am doing ok with a cut/maintaining muscle. A bit of warning and other here have talked about this in the thread, serving two masters-fat loss and muscle gain may get you nowwhere fast. All you can do is try it and monitor progress. If you are not seeing the results u want then make any changes to meet your goals. Most people that do this love the ease of eating less frequently. After the first week hunger in the AM is not an issue. Best wishes!!!
 
?? about macros. I know the recommendation that on non lifting days or low calorie days they say to up your fat intake and reduce your carbs. If a person is in a cut and does HIIT/sprints on non lifting days does this concept still apply? Or since one is doing intense activity still keep his normal macro splits but just reduce the total calorie intake equivalent to the -30% or so.
 
ArmyLife said:
I don't have pictures to show. But while on a cut even though I am at a larger deficit, I am losing only 3/4 a pound a week but my strength is slowly improving. I see a reduction in abdominal fat. It may be that I am doing ok with a cut/maintaining muscle. A bit of warning and other here have talked about this in the thread, serving two masters-fat loss and muscle gain may get you nowwhere fast. All you can do is try it and monitor progress. If you are not seeing the results u want then make any changes to meet your goals. Most people that do this love the ease of eating less frequently. After the first week hunger in the AM is not an issue. Best wishes!!!
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thanks for the response man. and i understand completely about trying to accomplish two goals at the same time. i am going to work at an overall recomp first, and then zero in on adding lean mass after i drop a little bf and get into a solid eating routine.
 
Can someone tell me if this plan would work for me? (this is the only way I can do it)

Age: 26, Height: 5'7", Weight: 151 lbs., bf: 19%

Calories on lifting days: aprox. 2,300
Calories on off days: aprox. 1,200

12:00 pm: pre-work out meal (about 40% of my calories)
3:00 pm: work out
4:30 pm: post work out meal (about 20% of my calories)
8:00 pm: dinner (about 40% of my calories)
 
Frank Reynolds said:
If you know what a calorie is then you should have your answer. Weather you count these things towards your totals is up to you.
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It's funny.. A lot of people actually don't know exactly what a calorie is. Quick first person to define (without copy and pasting) what a calorie is gets reps
 
machorox123 said:
It's funny.. A lot of people actually don't know exactly what a calorie is. Quick first person to define (without copy and pasting) what a calorie is gets reps
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To me calorie is anything that will be utilized in one way or another to be broken down to promote energy and give me my necessary vitamins, minerals and building blocks for the day. I always count my Joint Support and Multi Vitamin on a day to day... My join support for instance, it's got 40 calories. My Garlic Pills add up to 30. If I take them together, well, I just broke fast technically.

I leave all my supps calorie containing for after my first meal of the day.
 
bla55 said:
To me calorie is anything that will be utilized in one way or another to be broken down to promote energy and give me my necessary vitamins, minerals and building blocks for the day. I always count my Joint Support and Multi Vitamin on a day to day... My join support for instance, it's got 40 calories. My Garlic Pills add up to 30. If I take them together, well, I just broke fast technically.

I leave all my supps calorie containing for after my first meal of the day.
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Close but no cigar
 
I whent on the lean gain web page, I saw that we can buy the Ebook eat stop eat. Its that the lean gain book ? On the page you see lean gain versus eat stop eat, I am kind of confuse. Than you for the imput
 
jayv8585 said:
Can someone tell me if this plan would work for me? (this is the only way I can do it)

Age: 26, Height: 5'7", Weight: 151 lbs., bf: 19%

Calories on lifting days: aprox. 2,300
Calories on off days: aprox. 1,200

12:00 pm: pre-work out meal (about 40% of my calories)
3:00 pm: work out
4:30 pm: post work out meal (about 20% of my calories)
8:00 pm: dinner (about 40% of my calories)
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Why is it the only way? There's nothing wrong with it ... But it's recommended u intake the majority of calories POST Work out
Maybe do 1200-25% then POST-50% then 8pm- 25%
or any variation of it
 
alvin1 said:
I whent on the lean gain web page, I saw that we can buy the Ebook eat stop eat. Its that the lean gain book ? On the page you see lean gain versus eat stop eat, I am kind of confuse. Than you for the imput
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No. LeanGains doesn't have a book "yet" ... Eat Stop Eat has good info on it tho ...
 
alvin1 said:
Thank you for the real quick answer. Would you recommand buying the book or can I get enough info on the lean gain blog to get a good grip on IF ?
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realistically? limit eating to an 8 hour window a day, don't get too deeply concerned about any other facet. science thoroughly supports that, any of the macro specific or other details are much hazier scientifically. Doesn't mean they are bad, but doesn't mean they make that much difference either.

here's a recent article
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not like you are attempting to prevent obesity, but lack of fat gain is definitely a positive
 
A measurement of energy.
1 calorie = 4.1686 joules

What we typically see on nutritional labels is actually kilo-calories so 4.1686 kJoules.
 
Thank you, so you don t fast near your workout ?, is something like BCAA is ok during the remaining 6 hours I dont eat and I am awake? I would eat more cal on this 8 hours so something like glycobol should also be great ?
 
alvin1 said:
Thank you, so you don t fast near your workout ?, is something like BCAA is ok during the remaining 6 hours I dont eat and I am awake? I would eat more cal on this 8 hours so something like glycobol should also be great ?
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fasting around your workout goes either way, I workout at 7am and don't break fast till after 12. so long as you keep the bcaas down to 10g or less an hour thats fine. And more or less you should eat the same calories in 8 hours as you did in 14-16 before but glycobol is handy if you are a higher carb eater, and also kicks appetite up a little which makes it easier to get in 3000+ calories in 8 hours.
 
Everyone keeps asking stuff that has been covered 300 times in this thread already. Is this too much, is that too much, somebody lay this out for me and everything that is being asked has been asked and answered in this thread repeatedly.

YOU MUST KNOW YOUR OWN BODY! You need to know how well you deal with carbs, you need to know how many calories you take in a day, so that you have some idea of what your personal maintenance is. That will depend completely on your metabolism, not on a formula someone else uses.

Personally I think at this point when someone asks what the set up should be we have them set it up themselves and then critique it for them. People need to learn how to do things for themselves and think for themselves. This thread is not new, it is not limited in information and is in no way lacking people with plenty of experience. If you take the time to read even the first half of it you would see whatever your question is it has been answer multiple times by many different vets. This thread should be a resource to learn from not a come one come all free nutrition planning thread. I get at least 4 PM's a week with someone asking me to write up a program for them. I tend to help out as much as possible but honestly it is getting harder to do with a smile on my face when I know all of the information I am using to help is already in this thread. Let's not act like 150 pages of internet is too long to read. That is probably about 80 pages text. I can read that inside of one day, and have when joining a large thread like this on a subject I want to learn about. How can you join in the conversation intelligently if you don't know what the rest of the conversation is?

Sorry if I sound like I am pissing and moaning but it is one of the reasons I have not been in the thread that much. I check in and see the same questions, and the same people answering them. Let's see some people read the thread, absorb the information and set up their own plans then we can help if needed.
 
Vote4pedro said:
Why is it the only way? There's nothing wrong with it ... But it's recommended u intake the majority of calories POST Work out
Maybe do 1200-25% then POST-50% then 8pm- 25%
or any variation of it
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Well thing is for some reason I'm not hungry at all after workout, and have a hard time putting in all those calories post work out, much easier for to do it at dinner and have a small meal post work out. I know one of the rules is having the majority of those calories post work out, as you said too, which led me to ask this question. How much would it affect to have a bigger meal at dinner and a small one post work out?
 
jayv8585 said:
Well thing is for some reason I'm not hungry at all after workout, and have a hard time putting in all those calories post work out, much easier for to do it at dinner and have a small meal post work out. I know one of the rules is having the majority of those calories post work out, as you said too, which led me to ask this question. How much would it affect to have a bigger meal at dinner and a small one post work out?
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I don't know if there's really a scientific answer for that, I know is more effective Post Work out ... Maybe is just a lil, maybe is a lot, but I don't think it's huge, Martin does say a lot of time that those are protocols to follow but they key about LeanGains is the fats for 16 hours and feast for 8 ...
 
Vote4pedro said:
I don't know if there's really a scientific answer for that, I know is more effective Post Work out ... Maybe is just a lil, maybe is a lot, but I don't think it's huge, Martin does say a lot of time that those are protocols to follow but they key about LeanGains is the fats for 16 hours and feast for 8 ...
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True, maybe OP can just eat as much as he can.for his goals, regardless of how he gets them.
I'm not.advising to drink them but just eat all whole foods until ur damn satisfied
 
jayv8585 said:
Well thing is for some reason I'm not hungry at all after workout, and have a hard time putting in all those calories post work out, much easier for to do it at dinner and have a small meal post work out. I know one of the rules is having the majority of those calories post work out, as you said too, which led me to ask this question. How much would it affect to have a bigger meal at dinner and a small one post work out?
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It all works man, don't sweat the small stuff. They say to get at least 65% of your calories post workout it doesn't have to be right after. He recs aminos for fasted training which is what I do. Martin's way isn't the only Intermittent Fasting thing out there either and many of them work. I no longer follow the 16/8 I tend to do 20/4 on my Burn Days and closer to the 16/8 on build days. I train fasted with aminos pre, post and about every 3 hours until I eat. I still grow, I lean up easily with minimal cardio. Don't obsess too much. If you are worried about the carbs well Carb back loading takes advantage of the massive insulin release caused from having a bunch of carbs at the evening meal. You stay damn near in keto all day up until you feast. A lot of people are starting to incorporate it into the 16/8 window. He says it is better to do a workout just before the big carb meal same as Martin does but also allows for those who are working out in the morning to just have protein after, or aminos are fine I am sure since they stimulate protein synthesis as well. So you could even go so far as to add in the CBL philosophy which may give you just as big an insulin kick and anabolic environment that you would get post workout. Also the response to the insulin is stronger later in the day after a workout because the need for glycogen was never met. Martin spoke about that somewhere on the site also.

Customize it, enjoy,
 
MrKleen73 said:
It all works man, don't sweat the small stuff. They say to get at least 65% of your calories post workout it doesn't have to be right after. He recs aminos for fasted training which is what I do. Martin's way isn't the only Intermittent Fasting thing out there either and many of them work. I no longer follow the 16/8 I tend to do 20/4 on my Burn Days and closer to the 16/8 on build days. I train fasted with aminos pre, post and about every 3 hours until I eat. I still grow, I lean up easily with minimal cardio. Don't obsess too much. If you are worried about the carbs well Carb back loading takes advantage of the massive insulin release caused from having a bunch of carbs at the evening meal. You stay damn near in keto all day up until you feast. A lot of people are starting to incorporate it into the 16/8 window. He says it is better to do a workout just before the big carb meal same as Martin does but also allows for those who are working out in the morning to just have protein after, or aminos are fine I am sure since they stimulate protein synthesis as well. So you could even go so far as to add in the CBL philosophy which may give you just as big an insulin kick and anabolic environment that you would get post workout. Also the response to the insulin is stronger later in the day after a workout because the need for glycogen was never met. Martin spoke about that somewhere on the site also.

Customize it, enjoy,
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^^This hahahahaha ... I've leaned out by simply counting calories

Work Out days (4days)
2,600 Cals, Pro 40 Carb 45 Fat 15 16/8
I also train after my first meal which is just a protein bar and some fish oil. Works better for me, I'm too tired when I train fasted, but I also sleep in a lot
Rest days (3days)
2,000 Cals, Pro 40 Carb 20 Fat 40 18/6

I keep my Protein the same every day which is 230-260 grams and the rest I adjust.

I count everything, greens, supps, even the 2 calories in Coke Zero ... Yes there's 2 calories and I'm kidding, I don't count two calories

I also keep a buffer of 50-75 calories a day which i stay under my goal in case I wanna add some sauce to my food

It doesnt matter when u get ur calories in, play with the diet, make it work for you ... I do things a lot of ppl in LeanGains don't agree with, like energy drinks with zero calories in the Fasted hours or my zero calorie MIO slushy ... But guess what? It's working, I was at 12% last month I'm at 9.8% now and I only dropped 3lbs so muscle mass was acquired ... Win!

And Kleen, sorry I over think **** sometimes and forget how easy it is ... We all freak out when we don't get 6 pack abs the morning after hahahaha (that was regarding ur ass chewing earlier)
 
Vote4pedro said:
^^This hahahahaha ... I've leaned out by simply counting calories

Work Out days (4days)
2,600 Cals, Pro 40 Carb 45 Fat 15 16/8
I also train after my first meal which is just a protein bar and some fish oil. Works better for me, I'm too tired when I train fasted, but I also sleep in a lot
Rest days (3days)
2,000 Cals, Pro 40 Carb 20 Fat 40 18/6

I keep my Protein the same every day which is 230-260 grams and the rest I adjust.

I count everything, greens, supps, even the 2 calories in Coke Zero ... Yes there's 2 calories and I'm kidding, I don't count two calories

I also keep a buffer of 50-75 calories a day which i stay under my goal in case I wanna add some sauce to my food

It doesnt matter when u get ur calories in, play with the diet, make it work for you ... I do things a lot of ppl in LeanGains don't agree with, like energy drinks with zero calories in the Fasted hours or my zero calorie MIO slushy ... But guess what? It's working, I was at 12% last month I'm at 9.8% now and I only dropped 3lbs so muscle mass was acquired ... Win!

And Kleen, sorry I over think **** sometimes and forget how easy it is ... We all freak out when we don't get 6 pack abs the morning after hahahaha (that was regarding ur ass chewing earlier)
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Nice layout. What is your maintenance calories ?
 
Wow, i totally missed the fact that zero calorie energy drinks during the fast is frowned upon. Why is that? I doubt I'd actually cut them out but it'd be nice if I understood why.

Sent from my SGH-I897 using Tapatalk 2
 
MrKleen73 said:
It all works man, don't sweat the small stuff.
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I soooooo need to write the one article that has been in my head forever. About "skinny white boy syndrome" as i've named it. "I've only got 35 minutes before my workout and my preworkout says to take it 45 minutes before, will I lose muscle?"
 
PintSizPopeye said:
Wow, i totally missed the fact that zero calorie energy drinks during the fast is frowned upon. Why is that? I doubt I'd actually cut them out but it'd be nice if I understood why.

Sent from my SGH-I897 using Tapatalk 2
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there was some info about caffeine potentially spiking insulin levels if I recall
 
EasyEJL said:
there was some info about caffeine potentially spiking insulin levels if I recall
Click to expand...

Caffeine causes insulin resistance to some degree
 
MrKleen73 said:
Everyone keeps asking stuff that has been covered 300 times in this thread already. Is this too much, is that too much, somebody lay this out for me and everything that is being asked has been asked and answered in this thread repeatedly.

YOU MUST KNOW YOUR OWN BODY! You need to know how well you deal with carbs, you need to know how many calories you take in a day, so that you have some idea of what your personal maintenance is. That will depend completely on your metabolism, not on a formula someone else uses.

Personally I think at this point when someone asks what the set up should be we have them set it up themselves and then critique it for them. People need to learn how to do things for themselves and think for themselves. This thread is not new, it is not limited in information and is in no way lacking people with plenty of experience. If you take the time to read even the first half of it you would see whatever your question is it has been answer multiple times by many different vets. This thread should be a resource to learn from not a come one come all free nutrition planning thread. I get at least 4 PM's a week with someone asking me to write up a program for them. I tend to help out as much as possible but honestly it is getting harder to do with a smile on my face when I know all of the information I am using to help is already in this thread. Let's not act like 150 pages of internet is too long to read. That is probably about 80 pages text. I can read that inside of one day, and have when joining a large thread like this on a subject I want to learn about. How can you join in the conversation intelligently if you don't know what the rest of the conversation is?

Sorry if I sound like I am pissing and moaning but it is one of the reasons I have not been in the thread that much. I check in and see the same questions, and the same people answering them. Let's see some people read the thread, absorb the information and set up their own plans then we can help if needed.
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Amen. This is just one piece of the puzzle. You still need to determine what macro ratios work best for you -- everyone is different. Once you know that, you just implement them into the LG eating scheme.
 
EasyEJL said:
there was some info about caffeine potentially spiking insulin levels if I recall
Click to expand...

If that was the case then "fat burners" would need to be eliminated during the fast window. Which would be the time when they are fully utilized.
 
Frank Reynolds... I have finally caved and started Lean Gains with Intermittent Fasting, but I tweaked it a little geared more towards my liking... My 1st fast is for approximately 8hrs, then I intermittently fast for 3hrs between each meal for a total of 6 meals per day. My Macros are as follows Protein approx. 300g/day, Carbohydrates approx. 120g/day, and Fat is approx. 40-60g/day, with my calories staying pretty consistently around 2,200-2,600 cals/day.
 
EasyEJL said:
there was some info about caffeine potentially spiking insulin levels if I recall
Click to expand...
There can be minor insulin release with caffiene
runner_79 said:
Caffeine causes insulin resistance to some degree
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Actually it increases insulin sensitivity if I remember correctly. (Could be wrong). However the complete lack of insulin is not required for any of this to work. Amino Acids cause an insulin release, leucine the most anabolic of them causes the largest insulin release. So insulin is still produced throughout the fasting portion of the day. It is more to do with the balance of insulin and glucagon. Glucagon is what tells your body to preserve muscle mass and burn fat for energy. Insulin and Glucagon like peptide are antagonistic hormones. Insulin is anabolic and tells the body to run off of glycogen, to store nutrients, glucagon tell the body to release fat for energy and not use the glycogen. During the fast you want to make sure that when you cause the insulin to rise that it is with something that will also be absorbed quickly, returning the blood sugar to a low level dropping insulin and increasing the glucagon levels.

Basically all of that technical jargon means once again is Don't sweat the small stuff. Caffeine supplies far more benefits than negatives. Especially during the fast when you need assistance with cAMP to make sure you are burning fat for energy. Also don't forget that "The Warrior diet also an IF protocal allows for small protein and greens type meals early in the day with a large meal at the end of the day and it works wonders for people trying to lean up while maintaining muscle. The Warrior altered for bodybuilding allows for a small meal directly after morning training and then the big meal in the evening. Lots of options.


Tnoel said:
Amen. This is just one piece of the puzzle. You still need to determine what macro ratios work best for you -- everyone is different. Once you know that, you just implement them into the LG eating scheme.
Click to expand...
Precisely!
 
I love it, I'm doing IF for bulking. Only thing I'm doing differently is eating all of my calories in the morning, and then fasting till the next morning. That way, when I go to work or hang out with friends, I don't feel bloated or tired or anything.
 
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