TurningGreen
Well-known member
DreamWeaver said:
I've been hitting carb ups on the weekend. I figured that going so carb restricted would not constantly produce results. I'm talking 10% and even lower on somedays. The refeed definitely helps.
The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log
- Thread starter MrKleen73
- Start date
I've been hitting carb ups on the weekend. I figured that going so carb restricted would not constantly produce results. I'm talking 10% and even lower on somedays. The refeed definitely helps.
Frank Reynolds
Board Supporter
Funny I feel like I have been saying this, and caught a little "resistance" for it, and now we are back to refeeds..LOL
TurningGreen
Well-known member
Frank Reynolds said:
Bro, you have to do what works for you. I originally started the protocol using the prescribed macros, however I am extremely carb sensitive so I had to make some adjustments. I am very carb restricted during the week. So carb ups or refeeds as I call them bring me back to life so to speak.
Frank Reynolds
Board Supporter
Believe me, I totally understand..lol I have been saying it all along man. LG is the base, but you need to fine tune it(as with any diet really). I have done MANY different approaches in my near 1year on LG, figuring out what is most effective.
Right now, I am doing what worked best for me on a normal diet, just adapted for LG. More or less a carb cycle(like shelby starnes does) with a refeed. I have high/med/low days, and 1 day refeed. However like you, being carb sensitive, even my "high" days are only 140g of carbs(2days), 80 on a med(1day), and low is 40g(3 days) with a refeed.
MrKleen73
Legend
I think Green is still following the 16/8 protocal on weekends and not going nuts on refeeds. I know some of the conversation earlier in the thread was geared toward some people doing refeeds like done with UD2 basically a 2 day carb binge with days up in the 5-6000 calorie range. Tat or using the weekend as a free eat as you want weekend and then saying they are not making progress on Lean Gains. Of course someone could have taken that out of context, and thusly giving you the resitance. However I think the basic idealogy in here has been that every workout day is basically a "refeed" and every burn day is a low carb day. Then again that is also assuming a person is alternating their workout and rest days. Martin recommends a 3 day a week lifting approach to get the most out of Lean Gains and I think that the toggling is specifically why. I also tend to eat more on the weekends and be more relaxed although not to an excess but after a few weekends in a row of being to relaxed I notice negative type of gains from it if I relax too much. However I am doing this as a lifestyle diet and not regimented so I just adjust as needed.
Frank Reynolds
Board Supporter
Yea, I am not sure what people thought, or what gave the impression of a 2 day refeed. UD2 is just one of the many methods. I really use the "skipload" style of refeed.
Like I said prior the +-20% is assuming one is trying to recomp, lean bulk, or come down in fat VERY slowly etc. When strictly going for fat loss, at a decent pace, it is not ideal to be 20/20 IMO. For me, right now, solely focused on retaining muscle, and fat loss, it is not realistic to think I can eat at a surplus of 20% 4 days a week, and at a deficit only 3 days and lose fat at a good rate. It is just not mathematically possible, and at the end of the day IF is not magic.
My refeed consists of a fast of about 12-14hrs from Friday to Saturday morning, then a full day refeed, where I may take down 8000 calories easy. Sunday I fast ALL DAY, until dinner(5:30), and it is a low day for me.
However I am for the most part in a deficit every day, with fairly low daily carbs so like TG I NEED a refeed. If you are eating 400g of carbs 3-400 days a week, in a 20% surplus, a refeed would likely be foolish.
Martin himself uses a different approach for fat-loss. He will diet someone down, before implementing what you are talking about.
Again like I said pages back, the diet, macros, calories, etc needs to be adapted for ones goals, and other personal factors(metabolism, etc). When it is time to add mass I will probably start back off at the 20/20, or maybe even +10%/-10% and take it from there.
I have done it all. I have treated LG like a TCD, I have done a carb cycle like Shelby Starnes does, I have done a more traditional macro 40/40/20(and variations of this) basically all adapted to LG 16/8. I am constantly adapting, and experimenting with things. I will run one approach for a couple months, then make some tweaks, etc. Figuring out what works best for me.
fueledpassion
Well-known member
8000 calorie refeed? A bit overkill? Geeze, if I only had a 4000 calorie refeed I would effectively negate any fat loss during the previous days of that week. I keep carbs in the evening for the most part and only bring in about 100-150g total per day. Weekends I do not fast and eat a normal food schedule with a clean diet still and start over on Monday with the LG diet. Has been working pretty well for me in the aspect of recomping while on cycle and is relatively easy to do.
Granted, where I eat 100g carbs a 200lb man should consider 200g/day..I dont need many carbs to function well. The only thing they do for me is make me bloated and hold water in the mid-section. Fats and proteins seem to be the play makers for me.
Granted, where I eat 100g carbs a 200lb man should consider 200g/day..I dont need many carbs to function well. The only thing they do for me is make me bloated and hold water in the mid-section. Fats and proteins seem to be the play makers for me.
Frank Reynolds
Board Supporter
Whatever works for you.
I retain very little from an 8k calorie refeed. I might gain 10lbs that night when I go to bed, and am only up like 5 the next morning, and baseline tue/wed at my previous weeks low, and am down for the week come Saturday morning.
Even before LG I have dieted every which way, and implementing a similar style refeed always worked well for me, especially in terms of the physiological aspect of it.
I am also 50lbs heavier then you..lol
ssbackwards
Well-known member
In order to gain like 12 lbs on a refeed youd consume somewhere around 1300 carbs.
you have any idea how hard that is? i did it 1 time.. yes one time.
Blood pressure went up but i ate 3 full boxes of childrens cereal a bag of peppermint patties and like 2 full boxes of gushers.
Frank Reynolds
Board Supporter
Why are you asking if I have any idea how hard it is? haha I have done it every Saturday for literally 3+ years for the most part.
Typically these days I am good with around 1k grams, but have hit 2k grams in the past. Go over into the "skiploading thread" on IM, some people smash 2500+ grams. I can do 1k without even trying..lol
ssbackwards
Well-known member
alot of it is liquid i believe. i know about skip loading. but to be honest. anything over 4x body weight is absurd.
MrKleen73
Legend
Yes I prefer the skip loading approach for my carb ups as well. Even on my typical high carb days I don't get over 250 on carbs and normally 200, and 100g or less on burn days. You are absolutely right though it is more about how you run it for you than it is how Martin does it. I would probably do something like +10 on training days for a cut and and then about half that on my off days. TYpically extending the fast to around 20 hours then getting it all in 1-2 meals. On several occasions I fasted 23 hours then ate about 1300-1400 in one meal.
Currently I am extending my fasts longer on off / cardio days getting in 1400-1800 cals typically in two meals then doing +20 on my three weight training days. Recomps is a different animal being much slower the way I am doing it now will take it off faster for me and I will see how things go. However my weekends are still a little more relaxed moreso because I am doing it lifestyle type and not a hard and fast calorie counting deal.
Currently I am extending my fasts longer on off / cardio days getting in 1400-1800 cals typically in two meals then doing +20 on my three weight training days. Recomps is a different animal being much slower the way I am doing it now will take it off faster for me and I will see how things go. However my weekends are still a little more relaxed moreso because I am doing it lifestyle type and not a hard and fast calorie counting deal.
Frank Reynolds
Board Supporter
I consume very few liquid carbs. Maybe 1 jug of simply lemonade, that is all.
I am involved in a bit of a "transformation" contest, so I kind of am accelerating things. I will then slow it down to a crawl, and just really recomp slowly.
I will probably have to cut calories a bit after this week, so I may actually do what you are doing, and cut down to 2 meals on "low" days. Ill fast until 5, eat, eat again at 8, and fast.....
On sundays post refeed I ALWAYS fast until dinner, and usually get 90% of my cals in that one meal(13-1400), and a small shake before I fast again.
ssbackwards
Well-known member
**** load eh?
lol
i like to keep fat to a minimum.
however a nice PF changs meal can easily hit me with a 4000 calorie meal.
lol
i like to keep fat to a minimum.
however a nice PF changs meal can easily hit me with a 4000 calorie meal.
ssbackwards
Well-known member
im telling u build burn WEEKS 2 weeks on 2 weeks off that way
with build/maintence on build weeks and maintence/burn on burn weeks.
Frank Reynolds
Board Supporter
No, not a ****load.. I keep fat very low as I have stated.
Do you think pushing the fast while not touching calories will have enough of an effect to break through a sticking point? I think I will make a small change(-100 calories) and just do 2 meals instead of 3, with a longer fast.
My problem is I work from home, so I am sitting home all day, which sucks when fasting longer then 16hrs..haha
ssbackwards
Well-known member
2 meals is ideal
60/40.
fast the 8 hours between
if you eat from 12-8. then eat at 12 then again at 7ish. then stard over. i workout in the mornings so this is perfect. Lift, box, eat, nap, work eat.
days done. lol
Frank Reynolds
Board Supporter
Yea I will figure it out..lol My wife likes me to eat dinner with her, so that is why I typically eat at 12-5-7:30. Ill probably suck it up, and do an all day fast till 5. I train at 630am too, so...yea..lol I will just hit up 5g of bcaa every 2.5hrs or so.
That also kind of negates the benefit that Kleen is talking about, I would think.
MrKleen73
Legend
Kind of like the ABDCE Diet, 2 weeks bulking and 2 weeks cutting just using the Lean Gains fasting protocal huh. Not too bad an idea. I actually kind of do that already just not in a set scheme. I will end up over eating a bit for a week or two and see my abs smoothing over then clean up for a week or two. However I could see the benefits of this for sure.
Yeah, as far as fat loss goes I think extending the fast longer longer is "probably" a more efficient method of fat loss all other things being equal. Only because you never come out of the glucagon like peptide heavy state induced by fasting. GLP tells the body to presermve muscle mass, and burn fat for energy, while the fast actually increases themetabolism. With the 1 meal at 12 and 1 at 7 or 8 you would come out of the fasting period earlier and depending on the size of the meal it would keep you out of a fasting state for quite some time if you even achieved it by the time you ate again in the evening.
However SS method would be more anabolic. A nice mix could be to have a protein only meal at noon increasing metabolism via it's thermic effect since it requires more energy to digest. Then another meal later with your wife and that is it. If that is at 5:30 then you are still extending your fast by starting it earleir in the evening. Also likely increasing your natural GH output when you go to bed since you will definitely be on an empty stomach. GH release definitely increases lipolosys.
In the end the minor tweaks may only get you a tiny bit farther along but might just be enough to break through a plateau.
MrKleen73
Legend
Kind of like the ABDCE Diet, 2 weeks bulking and 2 weeks cutting just using the Lean Gains fasting protocal huh. Not too bad an idea. I actually kind of do that already just not in a set scheme. I will end up over eating a bit for a week or two and see my abs smoothing over then clean up for a week or two. However I could see the benefits of this for sure.
Yeah, as far as fat loss goes I think extending the fast longer longer is "probably" a more efficient method of fat loss all other things being equal. Only because you never come out of the glucagon like peptide heavy state induced by fasting. GLP tells the body to presermve muscle mass, and burn fat for energy, while the fast actually increases themetabolism. With the 1 meal at 12 and 1 at 7 or 8 you would come out of the fasting period earlier and depending on the size of the meal it would keep you out of a fasting state for quite some time if you even achieved it by the time you ate again in the evening.
However SS method would be more anabolic. A nice mix could be to have a protein only meal at noon increasing metabolism via it's thermic effect since it requires more energy to digest. Then another meal later with your wife and that is it. If that is at 5:30 then you are still extending your fast by starting it earleir in the evening. Also likely increasing your natural GH output when you go to bed since you will definitely be on an empty stomach. GH release definitely increases lipolosys.
In the end the minor tweaks may only get you a tiny bit farther along but might just be enough to break through a plateau.
ssbackwards
Well-known member
LG gets hard.
especially when you can eat. ill eat 60-70% calories after a workout for breakfast.
usually eating 80% of my fat and 50% of my protein for the day that meal. then one more more later one.
Just to find myself absolutely famished the rest of the day , and im at a 2400/2000 calorie split. I cant even imagine going to 1600 like i used to do when i was finishing a cut. However i did it in 1 meal and i did all whole foods which made it easier to be full.
i cant eat definetly 2 boxes of cereal in one sitting with a 100g protein shake on my refeed. no problem and i can add PB and almonds to it and be fine. Im becoming a mess on refeeds lol.
especially when you can eat. ill eat 60-70% calories after a workout for breakfast.
usually eating 80% of my fat and 50% of my protein for the day that meal. then one more more later one.
Just to find myself absolutely famished the rest of the day , and im at a 2400/2000 calorie split. I cant even imagine going to 1600 like i used to do when i was finishing a cut. However i did it in 1 meal and i did all whole foods which made it easier to be full.
i cant eat definetly 2 boxes of cereal in one sitting with a 100g protein shake on my refeed. no problem and i can add PB and almonds to it and be fine. Im becoming a mess on refeeds lol.
RickRock13
Well-known member
ssbackwards said:
Do you think that strategy has been better in both muscle gain and fat loss? I've slowly started working to something similar to it.
wesg49
New member
Does it matter how often u eat or just getting the right calories during the window? This is just a general build day guideline for me
4 pm- 750 cals
7 pm- workout
9 pm- post WO meal 1600 cals
11-midnight 750 cals
My concern is my post WO meal and 3rd meal being to close together. Eating that much food is definitely not going to be a problem lol I just wasn't sure if they should be more spread out
4 pm- 750 cals
7 pm- workout
9 pm- post WO meal 1600 cals
11-midnight 750 cals
My concern is my post WO meal and 3rd meal being to close together. Eating that much food is definitely not going to be a problem lol I just wasn't sure if they should be more spread out
RickRock13
Well-known member
wesg49 said:
I don't see anything wrong with that meal plan. You have your post workout meal as your biggest which is the biggest concern. Everything else is trivial I would think.
Frank Reynolds
Board Supporter
I am just so used to working out fasted now, I can't see doing it any other way...lol
ssbackwards
Well-known member
absolutely, i hovered around 192 for like 4-6 weeks doing it like that, (sometimes one week build one week burn becase of holiday ect.)
RickRock13
Well-known member
JRC said:
I use an electric mixer and it comes out perfect every time. I eat a slice of it every day now, so I'm up to a pie a week and make one every Sunday. Ive pretty much got it down to a T on what makes a perfect cheesecake now
RickRock13
Well-known member
ssbackwards said:
Cool, I'm gonna give the 2 weeks build, 2 weeks burn a shot and see what I think compared to the typical +20%/-20%
ssbackwards
Well-known member
I use an electric mixer and it comes out perfect every time. I eat a slice of it every day now, so I'm up to a pie a week and make one every Sunday. Ive pretty much got it down to a T on what makes a perfect cheesecake now
I have a DOPEY low carb Cheese cake recipe,
RickRock13
Well-known member
ssbackwards said:
Different than the Layne Nortons? It is also low Carb at 6g per slice. If you have another option I'm all ears because I love my cheesecake
ssbackwards
Well-known member
i dont know his recipe,
i use ***e 2% and creamcheese and fat free sugar free instant puddin (so we dotn bake it)
i use almond meal and flax meal and creamcheese with cinnamon and splenda for the crust.
hardly any carbs.
Frank Reynolds
Board Supporter
Going to attempt an all day fast today..hah It should be fun!
Frank Reynolds
Board Supporter
Well it's from 8pm to 5pm the next day so only 21 hours lol. It went fine. It was a little hard, but ate a 900 calorie dinner and then a 700 calorie meal before fasting again.
Frank Reynolds
Board Supporter
I am doing 5 x 45 min LOW intensity sessions, but I am pretty deep into a diet, with a less then stellar metabolism. Muscle retention is fine, fat coming off as expected.
Like anything else, it will vary for you. Start low, and work up as needed. maybe 3 x 30min liss sessions on off days.
haha.. thanks man!
RickRock13
Well-known member
james122 said:
I do cardio 3 days a week and its usually limited to 45 minute sessions Max, and sometimes as little as 30 minutes. If I need a bigger defecit, I just do it with diet. I don't really change the cardio amount much at all
MrKleen73
Legend
I tend to stick with abut 3 45 minute sessions a week. I let the caloric intake take care of the rest for the most part.
MrKleen73
Legend
Love it! I didn't refresh so I hadn't seen your response yet. Doesn't get much more alike than that.
RickRock13
Well-known member
MrKleen73 said:
I learned it from somebody pretty knowledgeable ^^^
redrobe
New member
Hey guys,
I've been doing what I'd call a "Lazy Lean Gains Diet," and so far I'm very happy with the results and this is the lowest anxiety inducing diet I've ever done.
When I discovered leangains.com I read some of the articles one night and basically came away with these few rules for myself; Workout hard, Eat between 12pm-8pm, Eat a big meal after a workout, Keep the protein intake high but don't worry much about what carbs you eat as long as you aren't going over your caloric needs.
I don't really follow the carb up and carb down thing on workout and rest days. I tend to eat 2 meals a day, the first one is usually larger than the 2nd but I don't think much about it. I drink water and tea until it's feeding time at noon or 1pm. I workout in a fasted state. I was doing this before leangains because I like to workout after I wake up and I don't feel good doing an intense workout with food in my belly.
Sometimes I drink a beer or two at night when I'm at a bar which disrupts the fast with 100-200 calories. Like I said, "Lazy leangains."
I was already losing fat before I started this 2 months ago but either way I'm glad to see that I'm still dropping fat now that I've stopped worrying about carbs and sugar so much. The main thing for me is calories. Like one day I worked out and then went to a party in the afternoon and ate an entire pizza. But I looked at the box in the kitchen and the whole thing was 1400 calories, so I just lived off of that until nighttime and at a small dinner. I try not to do that too often but don't stress if I do, I just accept that my body has enough calories to live off of for most of the day and I don't think about food.
I do Brazilian Jiu Jitsu 2-3 times a week and an intense full body workout doing bodyweight exercises for 30 min 1-2 times a week. I actually really enjoy the fast too. I feel light and more focused when I'm not thinking about food. I like to devote the morning to water, just drinking lots of it to flush me out.
I've even wondered if this is how prison inmates gets ripped while eating prison food. They just workout hard and eat when the food is served and that's it?
Either way, I'm really happy with the way I look and could easily sustain this diet for a long time. No plans of stopping.
I've been doing what I'd call a "Lazy Lean Gains Diet," and so far I'm very happy with the results and this is the lowest anxiety inducing diet I've ever done.
When I discovered leangains.com I read some of the articles one night and basically came away with these few rules for myself; Workout hard, Eat between 12pm-8pm, Eat a big meal after a workout, Keep the protein intake high but don't worry much about what carbs you eat as long as you aren't going over your caloric needs.
I don't really follow the carb up and carb down thing on workout and rest days. I tend to eat 2 meals a day, the first one is usually larger than the 2nd but I don't think much about it. I drink water and tea until it's feeding time at noon or 1pm. I workout in a fasted state. I was doing this before leangains because I like to workout after I wake up and I don't feel good doing an intense workout with food in my belly.
Sometimes I drink a beer or two at night when I'm at a bar which disrupts the fast with 100-200 calories. Like I said, "Lazy leangains."
I was already losing fat before I started this 2 months ago but either way I'm glad to see that I'm still dropping fat now that I've stopped worrying about carbs and sugar so much. The main thing for me is calories. Like one day I worked out and then went to a party in the afternoon and ate an entire pizza. But I looked at the box in the kitchen and the whole thing was 1400 calories, so I just lived off of that until nighttime and at a small dinner. I try not to do that too often but don't stress if I do, I just accept that my body has enough calories to live off of for most of the day and I don't think about food.
I do Brazilian Jiu Jitsu 2-3 times a week and an intense full body workout doing bodyweight exercises for 30 min 1-2 times a week. I actually really enjoy the fast too. I feel light and more focused when I'm not thinking about food. I like to devote the morning to water, just drinking lots of it to flush me out.
I've even wondered if this is how prison inmates gets ripped while eating prison food. They just workout hard and eat when the food is served and that's it?
Either way, I'm really happy with the way I look and could easily sustain this diet for a long time. No plans of stopping.
Niadh
New member
Hi Guys
I am very new to Lean Gains and have the nutrition side of things under control however I have a question about the weights.
I know you have to lift heavy but does that mean heavy for me? Because, what is heavy for me would be light for other people.
At the risk of being laughed at (please don’t lol) I weigh about 67-68 kg (just under 150 lbs) and I am male. However I can probably at this stage only benchpress about 30kg (66 lbs) and that is still going hard for me anyway.
No point me trying to bench press 200lbs not gonna happen (not yet anyway).
So as long as I push myself and lift as much as I can that’s still ok isn’t it?
I am trying to do 3 sets of 5-7 reps for each set. As soon as I can comfortably do the 7 reps I will increase the weight.
Just another quick one.. I am talking the compound lifts here but what about the more isolated exercises like bicep curls and tricep dips etc. Do you include them in your workout? Lean Gains is all about the compounds but thought these should be included also?
Sorry for the dumb question but any feedback is appreciated.
Cheers
I am very new to Lean Gains and have the nutrition side of things under control however I have a question about the weights.
I know you have to lift heavy but does that mean heavy for me? Because, what is heavy for me would be light for other people.
At the risk of being laughed at (please don’t lol) I weigh about 67-68 kg (just under 150 lbs) and I am male. However I can probably at this stage only benchpress about 30kg (66 lbs) and that is still going hard for me anyway.
No point me trying to bench press 200lbs not gonna happen (not yet anyway).
So as long as I push myself and lift as much as I can that’s still ok isn’t it?
I am trying to do 3 sets of 5-7 reps for each set. As soon as I can comfortably do the 7 reps I will increase the weight.
Just another quick one.. I am talking the compound lifts here but what about the more isolated exercises like bicep curls and tricep dips etc. Do you include them in your workout? Lean Gains is all about the compounds but thought these should be included also?
Sorry for the dumb question but any feedback is appreciated.
Cheers
mattrag
Legend
Heavy would be considered whatever is heavy for you. Meaning dont go under the bar and just "go through the movements". Dont do that ever, unless you're warming up and getting some blood into the muscle. Heavy would be reps where you struggle to complete.
Heavy compounds are where it is at, I might just have genetically big biceps but I have done bicep iso workouts around once a month... just tossed them in when I felt like I want to see my biceps pumped. I dont have HUGE biceps, but they are one of my more aesthetically pleasing muscles. Just food for thought, if you WANT to train um, go ahead. But I dont think it's as important as weighted chins.