MrKleen73
Legend
The one NTBM sells if 29.99 I think, plus you can use any of the NTBM reps coupon code for an additional 15% off.
The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log
- Thread starter MrKleen73
- Start date
The one NTBM sells if 29.99 I think, plus you can use any of the NTBM reps coupon code for an additional 15% off.
TurningGreen
Well-known member
Going with the Body Weight x13 Its very close to my BMR and the cals are much more manageable. I could even imagine cramming down 4,000+ calories in 8 hrs.
RickRock13
Well-known member
I used the BWx13 to get my figure for maintenance and then used the +20/-20 from there. For me that is working to a T for recomp. Very simple and very effective
kingjameskjf
Well-known member
I think you put it very accurately, well said. That seems to be my general feeling too. I think I will stay on the semi-fasted LG approach until after my contest prep is over when I'll transition to performance and gains but still continue LG but train "fed".
I was the exact same way, when I first started LG, I couldn't eat much either but now I'm able to stuff down a ton. I've started incorporated alot more fibrous greens to keep me from blowing macros by cheating or snacking constantly.
Interesting note on the thiomucase. I think I need to look into it more. Thanks for the info!
TurningGreen
Well-known member
How are you handling meal frequency? I looked like this today.
1200 break fast 20% total cal
1545 pre workout bcaa
1600 workout
1800 meal 2 50%
1930 meal 3 30%
The time between meal 2 and 3 was very short and I felt like I was eating them back to back. Is this the proper way to utilize this protocol or is there a more sensible way.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/primordial-performance/177113-4wk-androhard-androlean.html
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
Holy $hit that is a lot of calories!
TurningGreen
Well-known member
Doc, those are the times I ate my meals. I got around 3400 total calories today. I'm just worried about meal timing. Yeah that would be a azz load of cals!
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
LoL... I see it now, OMG... can you say Duhhhhh!!! Hey if you can't laugh at yourself then you are taking Life way to serious! Thanx for the clarification, because I was like... No way he is trying to lean up with those numbers even if you are Ronnie Coleman or Jay Cutler on an entire chemistry set worth of Sauce! I just added it up and that would come up to a little over 8,000 calories!
TurningGreen
Well-known member
HA! Im pretty sure my stomach would explode If I tried cramming 8,000 calories down...I don't even want to think about it.
TurningGreen
Well-known member
Post from my log today
"I am still trying to figure out my timing and macro-nutrient portioning, this is new to me so its going to take me a bit to get dialed in. My big observation and question is about meal timing. I break fast as 1200hr (20% total cals) then BCCAs at 1530 workout at 1600hrs, then meal 2 at 1745hrs (50% total cals) this is such a large meal and only leaves me about two hrs to get the last 30% of my calories in. Is it ok to eat those two last meals so close together (almost back to back)? Other than this I am enjoying the fasted feeling, it makes me feel light and I definitely seem more vascular throughout the day."
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/primordial-performance/177113-4wk-androhard-androlean.html
"I am still trying to figure out my timing and macro-nutrient portioning, this is new to me so its going to take me a bit to get dialed in. My big observation and question is about meal timing. I break fast as 1200hr (20% total cals) then BCCAs at 1530 workout at 1600hrs, then meal 2 at 1745hrs (50% total cals) this is such a large meal and only leaves me about two hrs to get the last 30% of my calories in. Is it ok to eat those two last meals so close together (almost back to back)? Other than this I am enjoying the fasted feeling, it makes me feel light and I definitely seem more vascular throughout the day."
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/primordial-performance/177113-4wk-androhard-androlean.html
RickRock13
Well-known member
To my understanding nutrient timing is not important within the feeding window so what you have set up would probably be fine just as long as you stay within the confines of your macro and caloric targets. This type of diet really isbest kept simple. No need to worry about timing all that much.
TurningGreen
Well-known member
Thanks, I felt like a pig, but I guess that's ok. I got my calories for the day, but still working on my macros. I'm so used to being an every 2-3 hr eater so this is a drastic change, but so far for the better.
DreamWeaver
Legend
Yep still have some saving for the last 2 weeks... hey I woke up this morning much much tighter and leaner it was very freaky biggest change in leanness I've seen in a while.
RickRock13
Well-known member
It takes a little adjusting to, but once you get it down its like second nature and it becomes hard to imagine eating any other way
mattrag
Legend
seriously man, I eat like 160g Carbs, 180g protein, 30g fat in one meal. It's like eating 2 plates of food. And I usually just eat 2 times, cept on my refeed day where I spread it out. 1200g carbs kinda hard when I don't eat any carbs from liquid sources and I don't like sweets... at all... White potato, sweet potato and rice is all I need to be in heaven
TurningGreen
Well-known member
Ive pushed my meal time back for the last couple days, its working much better.
mattrag
Legend
Fasted training is great, but all my workouts are after work... not having ANY food from 7am - 7-8pm is too rough for me... so I just eat 1-9, meal 1 small pre workout BCAAs, meal 2 (HUGE MEAL). Works well. I found i can eat 2.5lbs of chicken breast, 2 cups of rice, 5 bananas in roughly 30mins.
RickRock13
Well-known member
That would work just fine. There are many people that workout in the late afternoon or evening and follow a similar approach
RickRock13
Well-known member
There is nothing wrong with doing what you described. Your 8 hr eating window can be wherever you need it to be and is convenient for you
mattrag
Legend
TurningGreen
Well-known member
Lean Gains is working great so far even with my below average macros I lost almost 1.5lbs of BF and maintained my LBM. Im hoping as I get my macros dialed in the results will be even better. My complete rundown for the week is on my log if interested. Invalid Link Removed
Milas
Board Sponsor
I'd like to see a video of that! You'd beat Man Vs. Food! 40oz chicken, 16oz rice, and 5 bananas in 30 minutes? You must be one big fella to need that much!
Quil
Member
You guys may have discussed this earlier in the thread, but are any of you making MB's protein fluff? I made some yesterday from Dymatize Elite Chocolate Brownie and it was unbelievable. 40g protein powder, 1/4 cup milk and mixed it with a hand blender for about 10 minutes. I felt like I had eaten a bowling ball when I was finished, too! You guys have any recommendations on other poweders to try? MB says casein protein yields the best results, so I was going to look into buying some of that next.
MrKleen73
Legend
I still haven't all in all I am pretty lazy when it comes to food. I have been "meaning to" try that and the layne norton cheese cake out but alas I am too lazy to do it if not already out shopping I won't bother going to a store just for the ingredients.
Yes definitely.
Asgard1913
New member
Since I'm basically a fatty, I'm going to be running a Protein Sparing Modified fast for three weeks and then IF/LG from then on, but I want to use the PSMF macros/cal intake on my "burn" days. Do you guys think dropping that low on burn days would be an issue? It'd end up being something like
Workout day: ~3500kcal
burn day: 1000-1500kcal
Workout calories are just a rough ballpark to give you guys an idea. They'll be modified as I lose weight, etc.
Workout day: ~3500kcal
burn day: 1000-1500kcal
Workout calories are just a rough ballpark to give you guys an idea. They'll be modified as I lose weight, etc.
RickRock13
Well-known member
You can get away with dropping your cals lower on burn days. Whats important is not going OVER the mark you set. Going under is not a problem and actually encouraged if you can swng it
MrKleen73
Legend
Keep in mind Rick that these are modifications to the actual Lean Gains protocol. Although we find the hugely effective for weight loss I beleive that 16/8 is pretty concrete in the Lean Gains circle. However this is more of an Intermittent Fasting thread that started with Lean Gains but has morphed into a much greater Intermittent Fasting thread instead.
I keep mentioning that in ADF Alternate Day Fasting they often fast all day and have about 350 calories worth of protein just before bed. Then they can start eating first thing in the morning on the build days. I am working my way toward this to see if eating directly after the workout seems to build more. I think I would still cut my eating off at 8:00 on the build day and fast until 8:00PM on the burn day. Have the 350 cals of protein again after 24 hours of fasting then fast until morning and then go lift and eat immediately after. Of course I would supplement with aminos on the off days at least 5 grams at a time and 4-6 times a day. No need for them on the build days plenty of protein already floating around.
I keep mentioning that in ADF Alternate Day Fasting they often fast all day and have about 350 calories worth of protein just before bed. Then they can start eating first thing in the morning on the build days. I am working my way toward this to see if eating directly after the workout seems to build more. I think I would still cut my eating off at 8:00 on the build day and fast until 8:00PM on the burn day. Have the 350 cals of protein again after 24 hours of fasting then fast until morning and then go lift and eat immediately after. Of course I would supplement with aminos on the off days at least 5 grams at a time and 4-6 times a day. No need for them on the build days plenty of protein already floating around.
mattrag
Legend
If the fast day doesn't make me go insane I wouldn't mind this kinda protocol for Ultimate recomp.
RickRock13
Well-known member
I definitely find the extended fasts on burn days more effective. If I could control hunger better, then I would try out something more along the lines of the ADF method you described Kleen. But burn days are rough enough as is for me, and I feel like I'm hungry all day at 1800 Cal's so I don't know how well I would do with it. If I saw through someone else's progress that it is a big difference between the traditional 16/8 lean gains that I'm following I think that would be enough for me to give it a shot
Torobestia
Well-known member
Hey all. I wanted to just throw something out here recently that I think is relevant and worth looking at.
I had been on LG for 1-2 months at the time, and I went to have my bloods done. I got the results back - not pretty at all. BUN was high, which is kind of ok since you eat a lot of protein (but in January I was also eating a lot of protein and had a middle-range BUN). However, before my AST and ALT were at 20ish. According to the most recent bloods, both were about 4x their normal value.
While I do not claim to say that this is why it happened, I will at least say that it is logical this could happen if you're stuffing so much protein in a small window of time. The thing is if you're putting in that much protein in a condensed window of time, it follows your body has to strain harder to process it (if it in fact process it all, anyways).
Bottom line is I suggest you guys make sure you are not having problems with your liver values and get bloodwork done sometime if you haven't. If you're good then cool beans :banana:
EDIT: It might be worth noting that I had been taking AnaBeta for 3 days at this point.
I had been on LG for 1-2 months at the time, and I went to have my bloods done. I got the results back - not pretty at all. BUN was high, which is kind of ok since you eat a lot of protein (but in January I was also eating a lot of protein and had a middle-range BUN). However, before my AST and ALT were at 20ish. According to the most recent bloods, both were about 4x their normal value.
While I do not claim to say that this is why it happened, I will at least say that it is logical this could happen if you're stuffing so much protein in a small window of time. The thing is if you're putting in that much protein in a condensed window of time, it follows your body has to strain harder to process it (if it in fact process it all, anyways).
Bottom line is I suggest you guys make sure you are not having problems with your liver values and get bloodwork done sometime if you haven't. If you're good then cool beans :banana:
EDIT: It might be worth noting that I had been taking AnaBeta for 3 days at this point.
monstermash
Well-known member
I wonder if I can get a test covered by my insurance... I've been taking NAC (600mg) twice a day so I'm curious to see if my levels would be as high.
Torobestia
Well-known member
Well I had been on AnaBeta for about 3 days at this point, too. I'll edit my post and make sure to note that.
RickRock13
Well-known member
How much protein were you taking in exactly? No need to go over 1-1.5g per lb of lean mass. If you were taking in well over that it could cause issues regardless of how much time during the day you are taking it in..
TurningGreen
Well-known member
Ive noticed an unintentional drop in my protein consumption...not sure why. I'm still getting at least 1g per lb of body weight and not noticed any difference in the effectiveness of the protocol. I am noticing some increased muscle striation and separation as well as being more vascular
TurningGreen
Well-known member
Unrelated, but can someone give me some insight as to why every time I post from my iphone I get unsubd from the thread I posted on? Not Cool.
MrKleen73
Legend
I think you are confusing the Liver and the Kidneys. Protein consumption is not going to effect your liver values. If you don't keep yourself properly hydrated and take in a bunch of protein it can stress your kidneys. However for the liver, to raise the values requires toxins, muscle trauma or an infection be present. It is the response of the liver to a toxin and clearing that toxin.
I have no idea if the Anabeta has any negative effects on the liver it could, things don't have to be methylated to have a negative effect on the liver. Just as easily if you had been taking ibuprofen quite regularly it could do it. Also muscle trauma, like what is induced by a really hard workout can also cause a rise in AST / ALT. However the act of eating all your food in one 8 hour window has nothing to do with AST / ALT unless you are eating something that is toxic to you during that time.
Now what I would really like to hear are the rest of your values like HDL/LDL, triglicerides, blood sugar, and if they changed and if so for the positive or negative.
N.Woods Giant
Member
Im only about 2 weeks into LG and am noticing the same things. Getting more vascular and my wife even commented on my shoulder striations, and she usually doesn't notice changes that much since she sees me all the time.
Torobestia
Well-known member
Yup, I was at or approaching 1.5. But that amount of protein wasn't even higher from when I ate 5 meals/day though (in fact on my non-workout days, I went lower).
Good catch! Thanks for clearing that up - that was a serious brain fart from me. That makes sense to me @ AST/ALT values. So, it looks like this could be due to AnaBeta, but not because I was on LG. BUN being higher makes sense still, but that's logical and not really a cause for concern at the level that it is at.
As for the other values, those were all fine.
FlawedGrunt
Well-known member
Okay guys so today I was doing a low carb low cal burn day But work went late and I ended up working 15 hours And I didn't get a third meal in. Would you guys cram a third in even though it will be past hour 10 in my feeding . So 2 hours late. Or What'd you just wait to have a Massive refeed tomorrow to compensate
NoSwtTea4U
Board Supporter
My feeding window is 6pm to midnight and a lot of times on weekends I end up eating at 2 or 3am cause I'm out with friends. So I just start my window later the next day but still end at midnight.
RickRock13
Well-known member
For me, if its a burn day and I miss a meal then that's fine. I don't like missing meals on workout days though, and I don't like going over the 8 hr window. Also remember that having a day here and there that you need to make your window a little longer to get your meal in is not the end of the world and will not really change your results if done very sparingly. Try to make this diet convenient for you while at the same time try sticking to the 16/8 protocol the best you can.
MrKleen73
Legend
If you are sarting to eat at 6 and eat until midnight you already have wiggle room since your window is only 6 hours there I don't think that extending the feeding window is going to cause any issues. However, keep in mind if yu are drinking that what you are drinking has plenty calories. A shot of liquor has 7 grams of Alcohal in it and each grams is worth 7 calories. If you are drinking Beer then what ever other carbs are in the beer are also to be accounted for. So a light beer is typically pretty close to 100 cals, and the full flavor and or darker ones can be much higher. An average margarita has about 1000 calories, hurricane and all of the stronger mixed drinks tend to be quite high in cals so just keep those in check as that would have more effect then gently massaging the feeding window on the weekend.
Precisely, on burn days I often intentionally miss meals. It is 2:00 PM now and I should have broke my fast 2 hours ago but probably won't eat until 3:30 or 4:00 then tonight have dinner and be done with it.
oufinny
Well-known member
As for the booze, I agree you have to watch though I see less of an impact on lean gains then I do on other diets. That said, for the feeding window I have gone to 9 hours sometimes to get my cals in and see no diminished results, maybe there could be a little more fat burned but I see the proper amount of cals getting in as more important.