The dissapearing man

Read something once about back pumps actually being caused by kidney stress?
What you all think ?

I ran some dmz and really liked it over the summer…After a few weeks thought I was having back pumps, then my anxiety led me down the kidney pain path…..Turns out I strained a low lat, after close inspection I had a tiny but painful bruise. Must have been the quick strength increase 🤷‍♂️
I do believe that can be the case sometimes, as far as kidney pain, if orals jack up your blood pressure. It may not be as much when your younger, but I’m an older guy and don’t do any orals except for maybe once a year throw in Anavar at the end of a cycle for 4 weeks. But I’m a firm believer that orals pose more of a risk on the kidneys and gastrointestinal issues than long term liver issues. The liver is resilient, but the kidneys are not. Truthfully the two orals I can’t touch now are Superdrol, which I used to love, and Winstrol. Superdrol contributed to a gastric ulcer, and Winstrol makes me feel older than I am, ha and I don’t need that. But if you’re under like 40 you’re probably alright by keeping your blood pressure in check and a good cycle support, like Cycle Assist by CEL, nannokinaise, taurine, Tudca and SNS has a lot of good health supplements that should be staples whether you cycle or not.
 
^ appreciate all that!….Yeah I got a late start in anabolics…1 andro at 36,…a sarm at 37..Msten at 39…that dmz at 40…If I said how low the doses of those methyl’s were, y’all wouldn’t even believe me haha…Stuff is very potent, and I must be a good responder.
 
^ appreciate all that!….Yeah I got a late start in anabolics…1 andro at 36,…a sarm at 37..Msten at 39…that dmz at 40…If I said how low the doses of those methyl’s were, y’all wouldn’t even believe me haha…Stuff is very potent, and I must be a good responder.

When you’re an anabolic virgin and past your hormonal prime, you will get a ton out of comically low exposure. You aren’t crazy!

The problem is people take this to mean that there will be a linear dose-progress response, just like when they make newb gains & assume they will be the world’s strongest man in 2 years. This is also not the case.

This is how you have kids on 5mg LGD thinking they’re going to become pro bodybuilders one day when they work up to 500mg testosterone
 
^ appreciate all that!….Yeah I got a late start in anabolics…1 andro at 36,…a sarm at 37..Msten at 39…that dmz at 40…If I said how low the doses of those methyl’s were, y’all wouldn’t even believe me haha…Stuff is very potent, and I must be a good responder.
If you are going to continue cycling, you should probably try to get used to injectables, especially at 40. Testosterone, Primo, or Mast. Test with Primo or Mast is generally a safer cycle than most orals, and the gains, even though it takes longer, are more keepable. Guys that are competing or that are preparing for some type of competition, strategically ran orals at the right time can help get them over the top in power or help put the finishing touches on your physique, and that’s when it makes sense. But some of them can blow you up quick or help reach PRs like nothing else, and believe me results can be addictive.
 
^ all true…I think I’ll get there eventually!
(It’s 100% the way to go) My pct from Msten was something I’d never want to experience again! Dmz I did something much different which I won’t advertise but worked extremely well. The addiction is very real as you said!
I’m off of anything and have been for a few months, in anticipation of just getting good clean bloodwork in an upcoming doc. Appointment next month. But yeah the addiction is wanting to get back on asap…
 
When you’re an anabolic virgin and past your hormonal prime, you will get a ton out of comically low exposure. You aren’t crazy!

Good points! Appreciate all that!
What I’ve gotten thus far in most of my cycles, is going from 183/5 (clean) to 190 or so, leaner, on-look, incredible pumps, you all know what I’m saying. Fukkk it’s such a world of a difference. And I’m someone that loves to train and eat, as-is without anything.
 
Good points! Appreciate all that!
What I’ve gotten thus far in most of my cycles, is going from 183/5 (clean) to 190 or so, leaner, on-look, incredible pumps, you all know what I’m saying. Fukkk it’s such a world of a difference. And I’m someone that loves to train and eat, as-is without anything.
This is why you're able to get so much out of zo little☝️ it's not that you're a hyper responder it's that you actually live the lifestyle. Guys that have to run a huge load are the ones who don't eat correctly, still drink like they're in a frat house, and train like pu$$ies.
 
This is why you're able to get so much out of zo little️ it's not that you're a hyper responder it's that you actually live the lifestyle. Guys that have to run a huge load are the ones who don't eat correctly, still drink like they're in a frat house, and train like pu$$ies.

Thanks bro!!…That makes a lot of sense!
Always thought the ‘hyper responder’ thing sounded kinda corny lol…
Right now the hardest thing for me to deal with is my body not bouncing back quickly
from any sort of nagging injury…Recovery in general…Aging etc. I’ve got a tens unit on my delt and front lat as I type this. (Highly recommend) Anyway I know we all go thru this…Training is our cathartic release. I enjoy the bodybuilding specific stuff, the isolation pump work….But the heavy t bar rows, shrugs, squats, rack pulls, bench, ohp etc…I mean that’s where WE unleash the animal! I’m afraid of losing that stimulus…
 
Read something once about back pumps actually being caused by kidney stress?
What you all think ?

I ran some dmz and really liked it over the summer…After a few weeks thought I was having back pumps, then my anxiety led me down the kidney pain path…..Turns out I strained a low lat, after close inspection I had a tiny but painful bruise. Must have been the quick strength increase 🤷‍♂️
Maybe having kidney problems can cause some kind of lower back pump but I'm talking about a lower back pump in the muscle, it's a pump just like you would get in any muscle. I'd bet my children it has nothing to do with kidney problems lol
 
If you remember where you saw that I wouldn't mind taking a look. I'd like to see how they linked the 2.

If i were to do a bunch of sets of stiff leg deadlift or back ext this is the area I'd get the pump. Or sometimes if I was leaning forward a little while doing high rep squats I'd get a pump here. John meadows use to say he would do crunches to draw the blood away from his lower back but that's never worked for me. When I get them it goes away about a hour after my workout which is about how long my pump lasts after a workout. I'm very confident the lower back pump=bicep pump=chest pump ect. And just like my other muscles, larger muscles that I train directly and often get a good pump and smaller muscles I get a more painful pump. Lower back, abs and arms I always get a painful pump. I often stop my arm exercises a few reps or a set short because if I go too far I'm useless after. I don't think I've taken my arms to failure more then once or twice this year. And there not suffering from. What I can tell. It's one of the places I hold tissue well even after long periods with no direct work. Lately I probably do 6 working sets for arms per week
 
Catching up again, I get HORRIBLE back pumps on orals, even recently on my last test only cycle. No amount of taurine would help.
 
Catching up again, I get HORRIBLE back pumps on orals, even recently on my last test only cycle. No amount of taurine would help.
Taurine has also never helped me, I've tried up to 5gm a day. First experience I had with the back pumps was in 2010 with hdrol, everyone immediately told me 3gm of Taurine was the magic recipe for back pumps but it never helped. Now I mostly notice it when I'm all carbed up. I did that weird deadlift comp about a month ago and I was loaded up on bread, candy and pickles lol. Tons of carbs and sodium but not on any gear and by the 5th round I was getting back pumps, luckily we were pulling singles all day so it was tolerable. If we were going for max reps I would have been useless.
 
How come we always look better in our reflection in a mirror or window then real life/natural lighting. Obviously shadows help but my God, my avatar was a quick shot I tool leaving the gym pumped up but it looks gnarly in the reflection. Instant 5% bodyfat reduction in the reflection 😆 🤣 😂 Invalid Link RemovedInvalid Link Removed
 
@Smont Are you growing tomatoes? I'm staying at my parents house this week to watch the cats while they're outta town and my stepmom has tomatoes in her garden. They taste so good. It's amazing the difference between them an store bought tomatoes. I makes me wonder if the ones in the store are real or came from a lab lol
 
Taurine has also never helped me, I've tried up to 5gm a day. First experience I had with the back pumps was in 2010 with hdrol, everyone immediately told me 3gm of Taurine was the magic recipe for back pumps but it never helped. Now I mostly notice it when I'm all carbed up. I did that weird deadlift comp about a month ago and I was loaded up on bread, candy and pickles lol. Tons of carbs and sodium but not on any gear and by the 5th round I was getting back pumps, luckily we were pulling singles all day so it was tolerable. If we were going for max reps I would have been useless.
You ever find anything that actually helps them?

I recently got them on 500mg of test by itself lol. I am guessing that’s from something along the lines of - I was too fat, not enough water or electrolytes, kidneys? Because I did the same 5g of Taurine a day and nothing. I’d like to get ahead of them the next round because they are debilitating to the point of not even being able to do rows, squats, carry furniture (we were moving apartments and I had to stop every 20 feet just from carrying furniture slightly bent over)
 
@Smont Are you growing tomatoes? I'm staying at my parents house this week to watch the cats while they're outta town and my stepmom has tomatoes in her garden. They taste so good. It's amazing the difference between them an store bought tomatoes. I makes me wonder if the ones in the store are real or came from a lab lol
It's normally our biggest crop, and your right. The garden fresh tomatoes are soooo much better. But our tomatoes kinda flopped this year, probably had 100 so far but the majority were split or had a really big core. Not good for slicing. So this year we are gonna make a lot of sauce and salsa
 
You ever find anything that actually helps them?

I recently got them on 500mg of test by itself lol. I am guessing that’s from something along the lines of - I was too fat, not enough water or electrolytes, kidneys? Because I did the same 5g of Taurine a day and nothing. I’d like to get ahead of them the next round because they are debilitating to the point of not even being able to do rows, squats, carry furniture (we were moving apartments and I had to stop every 20 feet just from carrying furniture slightly bent over)

Test itself can give back pumps if the dose is high enough. I haven’t had back pumps for any of the previous 16 weeks of this blast, when test was 300-360. I bumped it to 600 last couple weeks and reverse hypers immediately began giving me crazy back pumps.

I’ve heard guys who use big doses of test often complain of terrible back pumps.
 
You ever find anything that actually helps them?

I recently got them on 500mg of test by itself lol. I am guessing that’s from something along the lines of - I was too fat, not enough water or electrolytes, kidneys? Because I did the same 5g of Taurine a day and nothing. I’d like to get ahead of them the next round because they are debilitating to the point of not even being able to do rows, squats, carry furniture (we were moving apartments and I had to stop every 20 feet just from carrying furniture slightly bent over)
I haven't, I just kinda suck it up, it's very debilitating tho, there are definitely days where I can't train because of it without adjustment. If im trying to get big i cant stop tho so All rowing movement I do with my chest supporrted, I try to do some Seated bicep variations, pull and legs compounds kinda go last. I also noticed if it's bad, start eating almost all your carbs post workout seems to be better then going into a workout after several high carb meals
 
Test itself can give back pumps if the dose is high enough. I haven’t had back pumps for any of the previous 16 weeks of this blast, when test was 300-360. I bumped it to 600 last couple weeks and reverse hypers immediately began giving me crazy back pumps.

I’ve heard guys who use big doses of test often complain of terrible back pumps.
You ever notice it's random sometimes too, like I might make it through 6-8 weeks no issues, then have a really bad week or 2 witj pumps and then back to normal. Weird
 
This is Connecticut tho, it's not unheard of to get snow in October here. When I left for Florida CT was 90 and humid, I got home and it's low 70's with almost no humidity now. My favorite time of year!
 
You ever notice it's random sometimes too, like I might make it through 6-8 weeks no issues, then have a really bad week or 2 witj pumps and then back to normal. Weird

I can’t say that I have. But donating blood seemed to lessen things, taking some of the pressure out of the pipes.
 
You ever notice it's random sometimes too, like I might make it through 6-8 weeks no issues, then have a really bad week or 2 witj pumps and then back to normal. Weird
That’s how it is for me, random a lot of times, especially if I’ve taken orals, but it will be like a few days to a couple of weeks of sometimes debilitating pumps, and then it may be fine for a week. I do agree with you that what most people are experiencing is true back pumps and not the kidneys as well. And actually kidney pain is usually higher on the lower back than where low back pumps are. If you’ve ever been punched in the kidney you know right where they are.
 
Test itself can give back pumps if the dose is high enough. I haven’t had back pumps for any of the previous 16 weeks of this blast, when test was 300-360. I bumped it to 600 last couple weeks and reverse hypers immediately began giving me crazy back pumps.

I’ve heard guys who use big doses of test often complain of terrible back pumps.
I probably was closer to 600. I was doing 250mg e3d and pulling the shots kinda “heavy”
 
I can’t say that I have. But donating blood seemed to lessen things, taking some of the pressure out of the pipes.
That reminds me, I need to give myself, but that’s a good point. If your hemoglobin and hematocrit are high, with thicker blood and more pressure, that would definitely be a contributor.
 
That reminds me, I need to give myself, but that’s a good point. If your hemoglobin and hematocrit are high, with thicker blood and more pressure, that would definitely be a contributor.
That's where I get confused, it makes sense but endurance athletes like higher numbers when it comes to that. If that caused the issue wouldn't they not be able to train properly? Idk. But a blood dump during the next 6 weeks is 100% out of the question unless its a medical necessity. After any time I've gave a dump in the past I'm kinda out of it for almost a week or 2 (its been a while unless you count bloodwork) and now is when I need to be training my hardest. Also I did some basic bloodwork like a month or so ago and that stuff was all fine. I still need to see another doc asap tho to get cleared for my fight, idk if they want bloods or not too.
 
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This is Connecticut tho, it's not unheard of to get snow in October here. When I left for Florida CT was 90 and humid, I got home and it's low 70's with almost no humidity now. My favorite time of year!
Dude it's the best time if year in the Midwest or east coast!! From labor day until Thanksgiving the weather is perfect!! I miss the "smells" of the fall season. We don't have fall in California, I thought we did until I lived in Detroit
 
That's where I get confused, it makes sense but endurance athletes like higher numbers when it comes to that. If that caused the issue wouldn't they not be able to train properly? Idk. But a blood dump during the next 6 weeks is 100% out of the question unless its a medical necessity. After any time I've gave a dump in the past I'm kinda out of it for almost a week or 2 (its been a while unless you count bloodwork) and now is when I need to be training my hardest. Also I did some basic bloodwork like a month or so ago and that stuff was all fine. I still need to see another doc asap tho to get cleared for my fight, idk if they want bloods or not too.

It will absolutely negatively impact your training. Up to 3 weeks there will be endurance impacts.

Context.

Idk if you have been reading my log but if you look at my picture pulling 600 last week you can see how red I was becoming when straining. Way too much blood in there for a fat guy to do low volume heavy peaking training over a wide training window.

Compare that to someone with above average cardiovascular endurance trying to produce a high density of training volume (cross trainer, martial arts, in-season bodybuilder) and you can see the contrast in needs.

It was causing me to gas out trying to do anything. I actually gained immediate endurance, because my body was not under so much constant pressure trying to pump syrup. But for someone of lower bodyweight who is conditioned & trying to do the amount of work needed to progress, you want HGB probably all the way up to 18. I’m sure very light cyclists & extreme endurance athletes go higher. But me doing singles & triples with an 18.6 level makes no sense.
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again..I f.cking love anadrol. Took 1 today PWO for the first time in close to a year and the pump was insane!! Who needs a high stim pre when you can just take an anadrol with a high carb high protein low fat pre workout meal
 
How do you normally feel after a donation?
I usually feel drained that day, but I seem to feel fine by the next day, but I definitely have less endurance for about a week. And I have to be careful with deadlifts and squats during that week, because I tend to get a head rush and light headed doing anything where I may be bending over and standing back up. Years ago I had gave blood and did deadlifts two days later. I was on my second set of 375 and on the third rep I started to black out and dropped the weight. It skinned both my shins like a cheese grater, that was rough. So I understand you wanting to hold off, because you really don’t have a couple of weeks to spare and go easy.
 
If you remember where you saw that I wouldn't mind taking a look. I'd like to see how they linked the 2.

I’ve been looking and can’t find it yet…I think it was from a rabbit hole of googling…I’m annoyed I haven’t found it. Pretty certain it wasn’t this forum…

I went down a deeper binge into YouTube videos kidney vs back pain, and there’s a lot of them…(not steroid related, was just for my own info on what I was going thru) Doing 5+ grams of taurine, plus liquid IV, etc wasn’t completely helping and my pain was higher up, making me think kidney…

I was training hard and certain I did have lower back pumps from squats and rdls…So with everything going on it was a clusterfuckk…As mentioned I think I did a number on my lower lat, as I found a bruise and it responded to ice and heat…I was relieved I figured it all out.

In my mind it’s hard to separate the fact that orals stress the kidneys, so that ‘must be what it is’ …Cause I had never strained this particular part of my back before. It’s close enough to where I’ve felt back pumps…and all this stuff can play on my mind, dudes….
Anyway I’m glad you more experienced bros are more certain it’s that the lower back muscles are just susceptible AF to getting pumped
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again..I f.cking love anadrol. Took 1 today PWO for the first time in close to a year and the pump was insane!! Who needs a high stim pre when you can just take an anadrol with a high carb high protein low fat pre workout meal

Learned this from my previous dmz cycle…as I had also had some cialis in my system and took some pre workout with a lot of pump ingredients as well (no nitrates) …I was so full, tight and crampy overall….before leaving for gym…(the caffeine is NOT needed with the oral either, it’s just over the top, for me…)
 
I usually feel drained that day, but I seem to feel fine by the next day, but I definitely have less endurance for about a week. And I have to be careful with deadlifts and squats during that week, because I tend to get a head rush and light headed doing anything where I may be bending over and standing back up. Years ago I had gave blood and did deadlifts two days later. I was on my second set of 375 and on the third rep I started to black out and dropped the weight. It skinned both my shins like a cheese grater, that was rough. So I understand you wanting to hold off, because you really don’t have a couple of weeks to spare and go easy.
Kinda the same here, I just feel like it lasts a little longer. I did hit the gym yesterday and do a pull workout and it was less intense, I'm gonna run tonight and see if it's any better. I think it's just a matter of letting the drol wear off. Just shows how counterproductive these things are. 5 days made me look fantastic and made my athletic performance do a 180 into the wrong direction
 
I’ve been looking and can’t find it yet…I think it was from a rabbit hole of googling…I’m annoyed I haven’t found it. Pretty certain it wasn’t this forum…

I went down a deeper binge into YouTube videos kidney vs back pain, and there’s a lot of them…(not steroid related, was just for my own info on what I was going thru) Doing 5+ grams of taurine, plus liquid IV, etc wasn’t completely helping and my pain was higher up, making me think kidney…

I was training hard and certain I did have lower back pumps from squats and rdls…So with everything going on it was a clusterfuckk…As mentioned I think I did a number on my lower lat, as I found a bruise and it responded to ice and heat…I was relieved I figured it all out.

In my mind it’s hard to separate the fact that orals stress the kidneys, so that ‘must be what it is’ …Cause I had never strained this particular part of my back before. It’s close enough to where I’ve felt back pumps…and all this stuff can play on my mind, dudes….
Anyway I’m glad you more experienced bros are more certain it’s that the lower back muscles are just susceptible AF to getting pumped
"Orals stress the kidneys"

Not necessarily, it's the raise in blood pressure that causes strain on the kidneys. Just taking oral steroids will not automatically put a heavy load on your kidneys, or possibly any at all. If your bp is under control and your well hydrated it's very likely your kidneys are not going under any significant amount of stress from orals.

Unless your taking a steroid that happens to be kidney toxic in some way, tren comes to mind
 
Hi guys 👋, had a very productive weekend since I got home, squeezed in some workouts and tightened the diet back up. 195.2 yesterday morning, I'm not stepping on the scale again till next weekend but I suspect IL drop a solid 5-7lbs this week just from getting back into routine.

I couldn't get my morning walk/jog In because it's absolutely pouring but I'm gonna tack 15min of light cardio into my warm up for boxing tonight. I'm also going to only do a couple sets per body part post boxing from here on our.

So for example. I have boxing at 5pm tonight, IL go at 4:30, do about 15-20min of light stretching and cardio type warm ups. I should be sweating before the training even starts.

After boxing were at push day.

Incline db press, 1 warm up set of 15-20, 1 working set of 15 to 20 then immediately drop the weight by 50% and just go to failure. Form will not be very important on the 50% weight stuff, it's just a straight burnout.

IL super set lateral raises with Flys for 2 sets of 20+

And IL finish with a few sets of something for triceps and that's all she wrote.

Workouts are regularly going to be 1.5-2 hrs long this week and next week before going into 2 weeks of double training sessions and then the last 2 weeks IL kinda wind down, make sure I'm on weight and just kinda make sure I'm ready.

I'm already looking at another boxing match in November as well so I'm trying to get 2 back to back. In a perfect world after that I go into another 6 week mini camp for January and then I hop on cycle again. Who knows tho.
 
I have a few days left of Ursa and probably 10 days worth of triton so I'm finishing these up and I'm thinking about moving to Apex 6oxo product and recomp 20 by sns. I'm also starting carderine next month and I've been slacking on carnatine the last week or 2 so that's gonna get dialed up when carderine starts.

Don't know maintenance calories any more but I have a good handle on what I can eat and I'm not super concerned because I will be hammering cardio. If the scale is moving I leave it, if it stalls IL cut 200 cal and reassess
 
Sounds like a solid plan to me.
 
Use the carnitine pre-training. It will give you more endurance and help spare glycogen and burn more fat off. You do that most every session and you’ll also be getting in your weekly needs to keep it elevated. It’s one of the best PEDs you have right now for your goals.
 
Use the carnitine pre-training. It will give you more endurance and help spare glycogen and burn more fat off. You do that most every session and you’ll also be getting in your weekly needs to keep it elevated. It’s one of the best PEDs you have right now for your goals.
I know, that's the best way for sure. The problem is I often drive from work to my training sessions. I'm not bringing syringes around in my truck so it's kinda impossible some days. What I can do is take some in the morning every day, post training every workout and on the days I get out at 330 I have time to go home and pin some carn pre workout.

Other alternatives are grab some oral carnatine to use pre, if I'm taking the injectable daily I'm sure I can keep store's topped off and throw in the oral pre workout but IL be honest. I don't really notice anything from any form of the oral carns.

Any suggestions based on my "available injection windows?"

I probably can get a pre workout dose in 3x a week with my current schedule
 
PreWO 3x as convenient and the other times postWO whenever you have a shake or meal for enhanced recovery. That’s the second best time (and the best time for strength training).

I think oral L-carn can have some of the androgen scrubbing benefits, but it simply & obviously does not have the pump/nootropic/endurance benefit taken as a preWO the way injectable does.
 
PreWO 3x as convenient and the other times postWO whenever you have a shake or meal for enhanced recovery. That’s the second best time (and the best time for strength training).

I think oral L-carn can have some of the androgen scrubbing benefits, but it simply & obviously does not have the pump/nootropic/endurance benefit taken as a preWO the way injectable does.
Sounds like a plan
 
I know, that's the best way for sure. The problem is I often drive from work to my training sessions. I'm not bringing syringes around in my truck so it's kinda impossible some days. What I can do is take some in the morning every day, post training every workout and on the days I get out at 330 I have time to go home and pin some carn pre workout.

Other alternatives are grab some oral carnatine to use pre, if I'm taking the injectable daily I'm sure I can keep store's topped off and throw in the oral pre workout but IL be honest. I don't really notice anything from any form of the oral carns.

Any suggestions based on my "available injection windows?"

I probably can get a pre workout dose in 3x a week with my current schedule
Why don't you just inject some right before you leave the house to go to the gym?
 
So if you guys wanna try a "recipe" that sounds totally disgusting but is actually really good. Chicken and rice ( whatever amount fits your goal) sliced banana on top. Them sprinkle cinnamon and Splenda( or whichever sugar substitute you prefer or real sugar) the melt some almond butter and layer that on top like frosting. I know it sounds gross but I tried it and it's really good. Nick walker and Justin sheir both do this as a meal. It's where i got the idea
 
So if you guys wanna try a "recipe" that sounds totally disgusting but is actually really good. Chicken and rice ( whatever amount fits your goal) sliced banana on top. Them sprinkle cinnamon and Splenda( or whichever sugar substitute you prefer or real sugar) the melt some almond butter and layer that on top like frosting. I know it sounds gross but I tried it and it's really good. Nick walker and Justin sheir both do this as a meal. It's where i got the idea
I was gonna say, I remember seeing a video about a year ago and nick walker was eating something similar. I've done similar, I just keep the meat on the side. But your right, it's surprisingly good, even when I mixed them
 
Speaking of food, these are mini ground chicken frozen meatballs. Not amazing, definitely not terrible tho. 15 meatballs and 1.5oz dry measure chick pea pasta gives me about 40gm protein and 40gm carbs and less then 10gm fat. Approximately 400 calories. The sauce is from my garden tomatoes that failed the slicing test :/Invalid Link Removed

Fast and easy, about $1.90-2.00 per meal
 
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