The Arachidonic Acid Help Guide

[De__eB]

I've alread pointed out where Will states that you don't have to abstain from moderate fish oil use. TWO references. PED podcast and Iron Radio.

A radio interview where someone openly states that it's their unsupported and unstudied opinion is not a reference.

This is a reference:

It seems to me like a bunch of online personalities essentially trying to fight for a popular belief rather than take away information from more credible sources (you know, like one of the experts in this topic).

It seems to me like you trying to fight for an unsupported opinion, rather than take away information from published science.

Why do I keep bringing him up? Because I'm simply sharing the information from those two podcast interviews.

I'm not going to go around and be a pubmed ninja. It's pointless because time and time again many a times real world scenarios differ from perfect isolated cell culture data. You can intelligently extrapolate things from such data but you're ignoring how things may actually work in vivo.

Plus likely, Will has done a lot more work on the subject than a bunch of online personalities pub med ninja-ing this chit.

The data I presented isn't isolated cell culture data, it was a dietary study.

Also, nobody is 'pub med ninja-ing' anything, Is Will L pub med ninja-ing when he says he searched extensively for studies relating to fish oil and muscle mass? Isn't examining published data a fundamental part of research?

Am I a foremost expert on the subject of lipid metabolism? Certainly not. But I've accumulated and read a couple thousand pages of information on the subject, due to how fascinating lipid metabolism is, both with regards to ArA, as well as phospholipids such as PA.

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As for Will L. Saying that conventional wisdom is wrong because you couldn't find information to support it, while simultaneously admitting that his own non-conventional opinion has no supporting data either is a very weak position to take, and it's why he will say something like that is his *opinion* in a radio interview, but isn't going to go around pretending it's a proven fact when it isn't, because he knows that wouldn't be accurate.

 

[kissdadookie]

A radio interview where someone openly states that it's their unsupported and unstudied opinion is not a reference.

This is a reference:

It seems to me like you trying to fight for an unsupported opinion, rather than take away information from published science.


The data I presented isn't isolated cell culture data, it was a dietary study.

Also, nobody is 'pub med ninja-ing' anything, Is Will L pub med ninja-ing when he says he searched extensively for studies relating to fish oil and muscle mass? Isn't examining published data a fundamental part of research?

Am I a foremost expert on the subject of lipid metabolism? Certainly not. But I've accumulated and read a couple thousand pages of information on the subject, due to how fascinating lipid metabolism is, both with regards to ArA, as well as phospholipids such as PA.

--

As for Will L. Saying that conventional wisdom is wrong because you couldn't find information to support it, while simultaneously admitting that his own non-conventional opinion has no supporting data either is a very weak position to take, and it's why he will say something like that is his *opinion* in a radio interview, but isn't going to go around pretending it's a proven fact when it isn't, because he knows that wouldn't be accurate.

Again, perhaps folks should as him where he got the data? I've shared the information I heard, I'm not the expert here and I don't see a point in me pub med ninja-ing this chit as I would not gain any appreciable gain from it apart from wasting time trying to win (or lose) an online back and forth.

Like I said, the information I presented could be right or wrong etc. I'm not really vested in this country personally so why am I going to waste my time?

But out of curiosity, that table you presented, in vivo human data or culture data?

 

[De__eB]

Again, perhaps folks should as him where he got the data? I've shared the information I heard, I'm not the expert here and I don't see a point in me pub med ninja-ing this chit as I would not gain any appreciable gain from it apart from wasting time trying to win (or lose) an online back and forth.

Like I said, the information I presented could be right or wrong etc. I'm not really vested in this country personally so why am I going to waste my time?

But out of curiosity, that table you presented, in vivo human data or culture data?

He didn't present data, he shared his opinion, as he said himself.
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In vivo rodent study.

There is no study on human skeletal muscle lipid membrane content of AA in a relevant exercising population after fish oil supplementation, as Will said. Or at least, he couldn't find one and I can't find one either.

The best study I can give you in vivo in humans was a 12 week 2.2g/day study with blood draws that measured WBC lipid content in elderly humans.
(Reduced membrane AA content of neutrophils by ~20%)

But again, conventional knowledge on dietary N3-PUFA/N6-PUFA interactions would support that fish oil supplementation displaces ArA and vice versa.

--

 

[kissdadookie]

He didn't present data, he shared his opinion, as he said himself.
--

In vivo rodent study.

There is no study on human skeletal muscle lipid membrane content of AA in a relevant exercising population after fish oil supplementation, as Will said. Or at least, he couldn't find one and I can't find one either.

The best study I can give you in vivo in humans was a 12 week 2.2g/day study with blood draws that measured WBC lipid content in elderly humans.
(Reduced membrane AA content of neutrophils by ~20%)

But again, conventional knowledge on dietary N3-PUFA/N6-PUFA interactions would support that fish oil supplementation displaces ArA and vice versa.

--

There should be data out as a part of the Tampa study on ArA. It was a 2-part study.

Him stating 5% iirc on the PED podcast, I think that takes that comment outside of mere opinion. Where he got that percentage from, I don't know, better ask him? Like I said numerous times, I'm sharing what I heard but I don't have a vested interest in this so me digging through a bunch of stuff just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Jiigzz]

Jigzz, you're essentially typing a lot of damn words to essentially avoid taking this up with Will L. as you logically should. That's the bottom line here and it's at this point hilariously obvious.

At first you were essentially implying he couldn't be trusts and then soon enough, you twisted things around to make it appear that I was making my own claims (which you did a good job at because it even made me believe so until I remembered that I specifically referenced where I got my info from).

End of the day, onus is on you and you know it, people following know it, you can dance around it all day all night but it still doesn't negate the fact that you are taking up the issue with me and avoiding taking it up with Will L. at more or less all cost.

How exactly is the onus on me? You brought the claims into the thread and use an appeal to authority as a source. Email him yourself and cite his references. Use that as a basis to fuel your theory.

Is Dr. Oz a credible source because of his credentials? What about the doctors in the infomericals selling the latest and greatest? Those are not sources. Published data from clinical trials is a reference. I have posted some, De__eB has posted some but where is yours?

Cmon man, I thought you knew better than this.

If company A sells a product as boosting dopamine and the science supports it but company B refutes it and states that it actuslly lowers dopamine; is it up to company A to look for the data themselves? Or company B to back their claims?

Citing Will IS NOT citing a reference. If you choose to believe it, then fine. Go ahead and do so, but you saying I am simply theorizing when I have provided data to support my view and when you have provided nothing is literally making me face palm. Bear in mind that there is no human published data supporting either side I can find BUT with known interactions it seems plausible.

Stop turning the argument on me with ad hominem attacks. Argue your point and stop deflecting OR just stop posting ITT unless you have the data to support your view.

It may shock you to realise but I am open to confliction provided the data is there to support it. I have nothing to gain by suggesting to avoid fish oil EXCEPT the satisfation that SNS' s customers get the absolute most value out of a supplement we sell. I do not make money from arguing with you and in fact I am gaining nothing with this argument - in all actuality I may even be losing face BUT when you attack me personally and not my argument, I feel obliged to respond.

 

[kissdadookie]

How exactly is the onus on me? You brought the claims into the thread and use an appeal to authority as a source. Email him yourself and cite his references. Use that as a basis to fuel your theory.

Is Dr. Oz a credible source because of his credentials? What about the doctors in the infomericals selling the latest and greatest? Those are not sources. Published data from clinical trials is a reference. I have posted some, De__eB has posted some but where is yours?

Cmon man, I thought you knew better than this.

If company A sells a product as boosting dopamine and the science supports it but company B refutes it and states that it actuslly lowers dopamine; is it up to company A to look for the data themselves? Or company B to back their claims?

Citing Will IS NOT citing a reference. If you choose to believe it, then fine. Go ahead and do so, but you saying I am simply theorizing when I have provided data to support my view and when you have provided nothing is literally making me face palm.

Stop turning the argument on me with ad hominem attacks. Argue your point and stop deflecting OR just stop posting ITT unless you have the data to support your view.

It may shock you to realise but I am open to confliction provided the data is there to support it. I have nothing to gain by suggesting to avoid fish oil EXCEPT the satisfation that SNS' s customers get the absolute most value out of a supplement we sell. I do not make money from arguing with you and in fact I am gaining nothing with this argument - in all actuality I may even be losing face BUT when you attack me personally and not my argument, I feel obliged to respond.

How many times do I need to point out that I'm not making claims?

Do you not read or do you selectively pick and choose what you read in a post out of context?

Me making a claim: XYZ does ABC.

Me sharing information that I heard (and referenced): XYZ does ABC and that's what I heard from person EFG from (reference 1) and (reference 2).

Big difference. In fact, you're the one making claims, so, onus is on you.

At best, all you can really say is that I'm sharing my opinion how something worked or didn't work from my own personal use of XYZ. But that's again not making a claim, that's me sharing my experience.

 

[De__eB]

There should be data out as a part of the Tampa study on ArA. It was a 2-part study.

Him stating 5% iirc on the PED podcast, I think that takes that comment outside of mere opinion. Where he got that percentage from, I don't know, better ask him? Like I said numerous times, I'm sharing what I heard but I don't have a vested interest in this so me digging through a bunch of stuff just doesn't make sense to me.

What would the tampa study have to do with co-ingestion of fish oil and its effects on ara content?

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I would assume that 5% is in reference to total lipid membrane content, not total ARA content.

--

 

[kissdadookie]

What would the tampa study have to do with co-ingestion of fish oil and its effects on ara content?

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I would assume that 5% is in reference to total lipid membrane content, not total ARA content.

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The Tampa study would give a better idea of what the stuff is doing in vivo in humans at a cellular level along with perhaps how the stuff clears circulation, if insulin mitigates it, who knows. It could have data that may be revealing. Dose response as well? Saturation point? How much of the stuff gets used in the training?

 

[De__eB]

The Tampa study would give a better idea of what the stuff is doing in vivo in humans at a cellular level along with perhaps how the stuff clears circulation, if insulin mitigates it, who knows. It could have data that may be revealing. Dose response as well? Saturation point? How much of the stuff gets used in the training?

There is already dose response data for arachidonic acid supplementation.

The whole point of this entire several page argument has been whether or not there's a negative interaction with fish oil supplementation.

 

[Jiigzz]

How many times do I need to point out that I'm not making claims?

Do you not read or do you selectively pick and choose what you read in a post out of context?

Me making a claim: XYZ does ABC.

Me sharing information that I heard (and referenced): XYZ does ABC and that's what I heard from person EFG from (reference 1) and (reference 2).

Big difference. In fact, you're the one making claims, so, onus is on you.

At best, all you can really say is that I'm sharing my opinion how something worked or didn't work from my own personal use of XYZ. But that's again not making a claim, that's me sharing my experience.

My god man. Citing a person IS NOT citing evidence.

Here is why: "The team of scientists spent more than £300,000 investigating sightings which they claim proves the mythical beasts exists; But the photo, which emerged today, seems to have suddenly taken on a new significance because scientists have dropped a bombshell – they claim to have found DNA evidence to prove the creatures exist."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/bigfoot-exist-claim-sasquatch-genome-2331222

Now, scientists are telling me DNA for Bigfoot exists; do I trust them because they are in a position of authority? After-all they claim to have evidence (which is what you are doing) BUT yet none is ACTUALLY provided. These scientists have dedicated their lives to the hunt of bigfoot so does that make them correct?

Just because Will L stated something DOES NOT make it fact; yes he is intelligent that much is not disputed; however it does not constitute evidence, nor does a podcast you cited.

Example: http://podcastufo.com/

Here is a link to a podcast on why Aliens exist and will probe you. If you state otherwise, you are the one making claims against my evidence.

Do you have a background in scientific research? I sure hope not.

 

[Jiigzz]

Dook, if you cannot see why you are the one with which the burden of proof lies then I'm afraid this conversation will just be go in circles with both of us undermining each other.

At this point, you are simply making ad hominem attacks without actually addressing the evidence that has been posted.

You state that I am only citing theories and that your view point is valid as mine is only based off "what happens on paper". I find this hypocritical and ironic as you went absolutely crazy with the Wilson study on HMB FA stating how it is so correct and everyone else is so wrong because of the study but yet refuse to accept academic research because it does not fit your view point on this subject.

I highly suggest you research what makes for good evidence versus bad evidence and logical fallacies.

I also understand that you are simply relaying what you heard however to question my sources, my knowledge, refute evidence and post strong comments that suggest Will L is correct and then directly attack me means that the claim has become your own and therefore you are also required though burden of proof to assert your stance through evidence. If claim contrary to what is commonly known in biochemistry AT THIS STAGE, it is not correct to assume it is up to the other party to find information pertaining to the counter claim.

I highly suggest you start here:

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

I work in a research field (exercise science) and work very hard to provide as accurate information as I can pertaining to what I discuss. When I am corrected or shown counter evidence (I am often - I do not pretend to know it all) I take it all into account as I strive to be an accurate source of information. I am unable to find anything relating to a 5% displacement of Ara but have instead seen data shower much higher confliction rates and so I base my reasoning on this (thanks De_eB).

"that which can be argued without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence".

From this point on I will only address information pertaining to research and not attacks on my credibility. If you wish to comment on this do not accept my refusal to comment as you being correct.

 

[SwolenONE]

Took a whole college course on logical fallacies, which made me enjoy the above post that much more

 

[uwotmate]

i read in another thread someone said training only 3x a week is too little to get much out of ara if taking only preworkout. is this true? (i train every other day)

 

[Jiigzz]

Took a whole college course on logical fallacies, which made me enjoy the above post that much more

Such a good topic! I went to a conference that discussed them and it was the best conference ive ever been too

 

[NewAgeMayan]

i read in another thread someone said training only 3x a week is too little to get much out of ara if taking only preworkout. is this true? (i train every other day)

LoL

your rewording of what I wrote is, well, not what I wrote

 

[jjobe6]

Not sure in what thread I read this but I believe TTA could be synergistic with ara? I just picked up a bottle off TTA-500 what would be the best way to use together.

 

[kbayne]

Not sure in what thread I read this but I believe TTA could be synergistic with ara? I just picked up a bottle off TTA-500 what would be the best way to use together.

ArA and TTA are not synergistic and shouldn't be dosed at the same time.

I can't remember what thread, but Cooper explains it in more detail.

 

[aaronuconn]

ArA and TTA are not synergistic and shouldn't be dosed at the same time. I can't remember what thread, but Cooper explains it in more detail.

Laymen's terms, they compete for metabolism.

 

[Bryancap77]

I'm thinking of using ara in my cut soon. Honestly I can't remember how I dosed it last time and I don't want to read through this whole thread so any input would be appreciated. I know alcar and gms are necessary to take along with ara, but that's all I recall.

 

[schizm]

1-1.5g ArA preWO, none on off days. Nothing else is mandatory, but 2g ALCAR (or carn salt) & 6g GMS, both taken alongside the ArA is a common dosing method to help with ArA uptake...

 

[Dma378]

Is 2 grams ArA ok? Pretty sure I saw someone else say that was their sweet spot, but most recommendation I see are 1-1.5 grams.

Dosed first 2 bottles at 1 & 1.5, want to dose 3rd at 2. Will only amount to 12 workouts.

 

[Jiigzz]

Is 2 grams ArA ok? Pretty sure I saw someone else say that was their sweet spot, but most recommendation I see are 1-1.5 grams.

Dosed first 2 bottles at 1 & 1.5, want to dose 3rd at 2. Will only amount to 12 workouts.

At 2g, the cost: benefit ratio will become an issue. I would suggest only using 3 days per week to extend the run to 4 weeks worth but that is just my preference

 

[Dma378]

At 2g, the cost: benefit ratio will become an issue. I would suggest only using 3 days per week to extend the run to 4 weeks worth but that is just my preference

It will be my 3rd bottle. If I dose that bottle at 2 grams, my total time on ArA will be 8 weeks.

 

[Jiigzz]

It will be my 3rd bottle. If I dose that bottle at 2 grams, my total time on ArA will be 8 weeks.

Oh I missed the post above. 2g will be fine on workout days then

Hoss it going so far?

 

[Dma378]

Oh I missed the post above. 2g will be fine on workout days then Hoss it going so far?

Love it. Don't want it to end!! Starting to add some good pounds.

 

[kissdadookie]

Here is one coming straight from Will L. from 2013:

I just want to take a moment to specifically address the notion that Arachidonic Acid (ArA) should be taken alone, without fish oil, for maximum anabolic effect. While this may be true for some individuals, we at Molecular Nutrition have found through years of trial and error that fish oil can augment the anabolic effects of ArA in many individuals. This is why we added Omega-3 EFA’s to X-Factor Advanced. A recent study may help explain why there may be such synergy.

The study in question examined the metabolic effects of fish oil supplementation in young men. As part of this, the researchers measured prostaglandin (PG) levels. As you may know, PGF2-alpha is a prostaglandin produced from arachidonic acid, and is the PG primarily related to protein synthesis and muscle growth. It is what we’re looking for more of when taking ArA. The researchers must have expected a reduction in PGF2-alpha after fish oil, given its known competitive nature with ArA. However, the opposite occurred. Fish oil resulted in a substantial increase in PGF2-alpha.

What is probably going on is that the omega-3 EFA’s in fish oil are displacing membrane-bound ArA, causing it to enter circulation where it is available for PG synthesis. So instead of being counterproductive, taking fish oil alongside ArA may actually cause you to have a greater increase in the serum level of muscle-building prostaglandins. Whatever the exact mechanism, we are not noticing the inhibition everyone expected.

It probably isn’t this way for everyone, or at least I speculate. I’d imagine those that have already been taking high doses of fish oil might have already done a good job of lowering membrane-bound ARA. I would say this type of user should probably run ArA alone. Otherwise, taking some fish oil might help you get more out of your next run of ArA.


Reference:

Metabolism, 2013 Mar 20. pii: S0026-0495(13)00051-6. doi: 10.1016/j.metabol.2013.02.004. [Epub ahead of print]
Fish oil supplementation alters circulating eicosanoid concentrations in young healthy men.




Yes it's his opinion, but he does have his reasoning behind it and does address some of the caveats possible with continuing fish oil with ArA supplementation for some individuals. I'm sure he has much more thoughts and references for his opinions but again, best to ask him directly. I'm just sharing info here.

Additional things to think about:

What if you are one of those that falls into the demographic in which fish oil supplementation actually will increase your inflammation response? Now what would be the optimal dosing procedure for such an individual? How does one even tell which kind of dosing would be best with them? Just a reminder that there are variables at play in real world practice which are not evident when looking at things in isolated scenarios.

Personally, and this is ENTIRELY PERSONAL ANECDOTE (which I've mentioned probably on AM a time or two and a few times over on the other board), so THIS IS NOT A CLAIM, but I found DOMS usually kicks in quicker and stronger when I've used XFA. That's just an n=1 experience, but that is what I have personally observed through multiple ArA cycles.

 

[GNO]

In order to truly figure out whether your gains will be equivalent with fish oil or without would entail an extended run under both conditions.

That could be expensive and I would argue unjustified. You should be cycling off supps like fish oil every now and then anyways so might as well take that break during the ArA run.

 

[Jiigzz]

Here is one coming straight from Will L. from 2013:

I just want to take a moment to specifically address the notion that Arachidonic Acid (ArA) should be taken alone, without fish oil, for maximum anabolic effect. While this may be true for some individuals, we at Molecular Nutrition have found through years of trial and error that fish oil can augment the anabolic effects of ArA in many individuals. This is why we added Omega-3 EFA’s to X-Factor Advanced. A recent study may help explain why there may be such synergy.

The study in question examined the metabolic effects of fish oil supplementation in young men. As part of this, the researchers measured prostaglandin (PG) levels. As you may know, PGF2-alpha is a prostaglandin produced from arachidonic acid, and is the PG primarily related to protein synthesis and muscle growth. It is what we’re looking for more of when taking ArA. The researchers must have expected a reduction in PGF2-alpha after fish oil, given its known competitive nature with ArA. However, the opposite occurred. Fish oil resulted in a substantial increase in PGF2-alpha.

What is probably going on is that the omega-3 EFA’s in fish oil are displacing membrane-bound ArA, causing it to enter circulation where it is available for PG synthesis. So instead of being counterproductive, taking fish oil alongside ArA may actually cause you to have a greater increase in the serum level of muscle-building prostaglandins. Whatever the exact mechanism, we are not noticing the inhibition everyone expected.

It probably isn’t this way for everyone, or at least I speculate. I’d imagine those that have already been taking high doses of fish oil might have already done a good job of lowering membrane-bound ARA. I would say this type of user should probably run ArA alone. Otherwise, taking some fish oil might help you get more out of your next run of ArA.


Reference:

Metabolism, 2013 Mar 20. pii: S0026-0495(13)00051-6. doi: 10.1016/j.metabol.2013.02.004. [Epub ahead of print]
Fish oil supplementation alters circulating eicosanoid concentrations in young healthy men.




Yes it's his opinion, but he does have his reasoning behind it and does address some of the caveats possible with continuing fish oil with ArA supplementation for some individuals. I'm sure he has much more thoughts and references for his opinions but again, best to ask him directly. I'm just sharing info here.

Additional things to think about:

What if you are one of those that falls into the demographic in which fish oil supplementation actually will increase your inflammation response? Now what would be the optimal dosing procedure for such an individual? How does one even tell which kind of dosing would be best with them? Just a reminder that there are variables at play in real world practice which are not evident when looking at things in isolated scenarios.

Personally, and this is ENTIRELY PERSONAL ANECDOTE (which I've mentioned probably on AM a time or two and a few times over on the other board), so THIS IS NOT A CLAIM, but I found DOMS usually kicks in quicker and stronger when I've used XFA. That's just an n=1 experience, but that is what I have personally observed through multiple ArA cycles.

Edit: re-reading

Firstly, thanks for bringing evidence into the thread

Ill have a look at this later

 

[De__eB]

Been waiting for you to post that study KDD

Consider the following, which do you want:

-Chronically elevated circulating PGF2a levels due to membrane AA displacement.

-Acutely elevated circulating PGF2a levels in response to exercise due to membrane AA saturation.

--

While considering that, reference this study on high dietary n3-pufa and cancer:

Plasma Phospholipid Fatty Acids and Prostate Cancer Risk in the SELECT Trial


--

 

[Kickstart7]

Will any known test boosters affect ARA, or tribulus for the LH?

 

[aaronuconn]

Will any known test boosters affect ARA, or tribulus for the LH?

Sorry, can you restate your question? Are you asking if ArA has any impact on LH?

 

[GNO]

Is ArA absorption hindered if I take it fasted pre-wo and then have carbs intra-workout?

 

[kbayne]

Is ArA absorption hindered if I take it fasted pre-wo and then have carbs intra-workout?

No. Your intra is good to go with ArA.

 

[Kickstart7]

Sorry, can you restate your question? Are you asking if ArA has any impact on LH?

no, just if any test boosters such as hpta or alphamax have ingredients that interfere bc I plan on using both at during my ARA cycle. One the first half of it and one the second. I'm in pct so I'm using tribulus for libido purposes ( maybe get the LH going faster).

 

[rowz4broz]

no, just if any test boosters such as hpta or alphamax have ingredients that interfere bc I plan on using both at during my ARA cycle. One the first half of it and one the second. I'm in pct so I'm using tribulus for libido purposes ( maybe get the LH going faster).

I am currently taking HPTA as well as ArA. I take the ArA fasted 45 mins pwo and immediately after my workout I take the HPTA because after reviewing each of the ingredients in HPTA one of them had anti inflammatory properties

 

[Kickstart7]

I am currently taking HPTA as well as ArA. I take the ArA fasted 45 mins pwo and immediately after my workout I take the HPTA because after reviewing each of the ingredients in HPTA one of them had anti inflammatory properties

would that kill the pump as well as the DOMS the next day? Or is ecerytging still going well with it?!

 

[rowz4broz]

would that kill the pump as well as the DOMS the next day? Or is ecerytging still going well with it?!

went to the gym a couple hours ago and my shirt sleeve is still hugging my Bi so that's a good thing.

 

[Jiigzz]

I must admit, this is getting well beyond me. The study does shed some light that perhaps displacement may be favourable. In all honesty, I have no idea.

 

[Kickstart7]

What about nitrates . L-arginine . Betaine nitrate to be specific: i looked but got in depth and couldn't find anything.,

 

[aaronuconn]

What about nitrates . L-arginine . Betaine nitrate to be specific: i looked but got in depth and couldn't find anything.,

In conjunction with ArA? That's fine.

 

[Kickstart7]

In conjunction with ArA? That's fine.

just trying to get my whole ARA/pct layout verified to the small supps lol!

 

[Dma378]

Chew up SL granules at the same time I take my X Gels pwo, or 30 minutes before?

 

[schizm]

Chew up SL granules at the same time I take my X Gels pwo, or 30 minutes before?

At the same time dawg

 

[Jackedjack]

Can you take an epi product with ara. I'm just wondering if there is any anti inflammatory effects of an epi product such as magnitropin or ep1c.

 

[chedapalooza]

Can you take an epi product with ara. I'm just wondering if there is any anti inflammatory effects of an epi product such as magnitropin or ep1c.

Epic yea good to go

 

[Jackedjack]

Epic yea good to go

Also does it make a huge difference whether you have an empty stomach or not? I usually have a bowl of oats or chicken and broccoli two hours before I go to the gym

 

[GNO]

Also does it make a huge difference whether you have an empty stomach or not? I usually have a bowl of oats or chicken and broccoli two hours before I go to the gym

2 hrs should be good enough... I'm eating 1-1.5 hrs before due to my schedule.

 

[SwolenONE]

2 hrs should be good enough... I'm eating 1-1.5 hrs before due to my schedule.

Same here, I usually eat right around 1 hour before I dose my XF. 90-120 min is perhaps even more ideal but I haven't noticed a ton of difference personally when taking w food, fasted, or in between.

 

[Kickstart7]

Can ARA be dangerous in the case of a head injury? Just watching house and got curious about inflammation in the head lol

 

[bobbybondmo]

i read in another thread someone said training only 3x a week is too little to get much out of ara if taking only preworkout. is this true? (i train every other day)

I have used ARA at 8 caps for each of two workout days a week and the effects are still very noticable (compared to 3-4-5 workouts a week).