Tell Us What You Would Like to See From SNS & CEL (2023 Edition)

thescience said:
thanks for including the link. yeah there is a guy on there saying who cares about a comparison to the protein synthesis induced by insulin. the effect insulin has on protein synthesis is absolutely no joke.

my experience with mtor supporting ingredients has been either a profound hit or a total miss. sometimes i wonder if all the leucine i take has maxed me out in that area. regardless, anything along these lines is a must-try
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The person in that thread saying that was one of the most disrespectful and antagonizing posters on AM. He used to bash pretty much any legit ingredient and company. He would put down legit researched ingredients but then try to promote random peptide or nootropic nasal sprays.

Finally got himself banned for bashing after the Admin warned him a ton of times.

I had went out of my way to be nice to him and I don’t think that’s even what he even wanted; just wanted start trouble and argue.
 
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sns8778 said:
The person in that thread saying that was one of the most disrespectful and antagonizing posters on AM. He used to bash pretty much any legit ingredient and company. He would put down legit researched ingredients but then try to promote random peptide or nootropic nasal sprays.

Finally got himself banned for bashing after the Admin warned him a ton of times.

I had went out of my way to be nice to him and I don’t think that’s even what he even wanted; just wanted start trouble and argue.
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He was an odd duck - started off on here as a nice fellow, asked a lot of questions and seemed interested in learning. But then somewhere along the way he started majoring in the minors, looking at all of the most fringe/lowest evidence ingredients/methods as the answer to everything AND suddenly gaining a superiority complex for it. Ripping on anything he didn’t decide to try and acting like he was better than everyone else. Got pretty bipolar, and lots of posting very obviously under the influence when he was in a mood.

Good riddance!
 
Hyde said:
He was an odd duck - started off on here as a nice fellow, asked a lot of questions and seemed interested in learning. But then somewhere along the way he started majoring in the minors, looking at all of the most fringe/lowest evidence ingredients/methods as the answer to everything AND suddenly gaining a superiority complex for it. Ripping on anything he didn’t decide to try and acting like he was better than everyone else. Got pretty bipolar, and lots of posting very obviously under the influence when he was in a mood.

Good riddance!
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It's funny that you mentioned that about him because I remember when I saw some posts of his where he was being a real jerk, thinking to myself - is this the person I thought it was? But then I figured I maybe confused him with someone else; but my initial thought then was that he had been nice and helpful at one point. The way you described him at first is the way I remembered it, nice and seemed genuinely interested in learning.

But yeah, it was like all of a sudden he became one of the most condescending and antagonizing posters on here, and you're absolutely right - it was like all of a sudden he thought he was smarter and better than everyone else.

I remember several time he tried to argue with me over thing related to the supply chain in the industry and was going off of what he read on Reddit - whereas I got my start in the industry doing raw material sourcing and formulation for other companies before I even started SNS, and have been working on the supply chain side for 19 years. I remember trying to nicely explain to him the way things actually worked on that side of things, and he had no interest in learning, he just wanted to be right.

And I remember him bashing brands and ingredients that were good brands and had legit studies, but then in the next breathe was promoting nootropic and peptide nasal sprays and stuff that people were literally just making in their homes. It was almost surreal - it seemed like he kind of became a conspiracy theorist and thought the answer to all supplements lay with some obscure companies and that all the companies that did things the right way were conspiring together. Really odd.

I remember the subject that got him banned - the Admin had deleted stuff and said for it to stop multiple times, gave him and a few others every chance in the world to stop it; and the stuff they were saying was so against the forum rules (and wrong) that it was baffling that it just kept happening. I think the disrespect there with that situation was one of the reasons that now the Admin just bans people and doesn't even really give much in the way of chances.
 
I’m not sure if this was requested, but as far as anti aging or slowing down the aging process or improving skin quality and elasticity etc.
Is there is anything in the works!
 
NattyJuicer said:
I’m not sure if this was requested, but as far as anti aging or slowing down the aging process or improving skin quality and elasticity etc.
Is there is anything in the works!
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there was a thread about it, still waiting on the product. Gonna hit 39 in a month, not getting any younger Steve!!
 
NattyJuicer said:
I’m not sure if this was requested, but as far as anti aging or slowing down the aging process or improving skin quality and elasticity etc.
Is there is anything in the works!
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I know there’s been talk of anti-aging supps at some point here, but I wanted to mention that growth hormone also does help skin elasticity/shrink looser skin some - and elevated GH is actually aging. But you see it with “anti-aging” clinics still because it helps skin quality. Of course you don’t need much of it.

So I wanted to draw attention to the idea that in addition to any actual longevity anti-aging supps, any supplements that increase your growth hormone would help support that skin goal too.

This is also a benefit of doing some periodic extended fasts for a few days, where the longer you fast the higher your GH creeps up (and autophagy helps clean up old damaged cells).
 
Hyde said:
I know there’s been talk of anti-aging supps at some point here, but I wanted to mention that growth hormone also does help skin elasticity/shrink looser skin some - and elevated GH is actually aging. But you see it with “anti-aging” clinics still because it helps skin quality. Of course you don’t need much of it.

So I wanted to draw attention to the idea that in addition to any actual longevity anti-aging supps, any supplements that increase your growth hormone would help support that skin goal too.

This is also a benefit of doing some periodic extended fasts for a few days, where the longer you fast the higher your GH creeps up (and autophagy helps clean up old damaged cells).
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I thought about doing something along the lines of a GH type increasing supplement under the anti-aging/longevity lineup when that happens; but also, we should be launching the updated version of Growth Factor XT soon too.
 
NattyJuicer said:
I’m not sure if this was requested, but as far as anti aging or slowing down the aging process or improving skin quality and elasticity etc.
Is there is anything in the works!
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Yes, I've been considering doing a few anti-aging & longevity products under SNS, but also have been wanting to do a sub-brand of SNS that would be specifically geared towards anti-aging and longevity. It's a huge project and one that I've put a ton of time and research into, and I'm hoping if all goes well to be able to launch it Q1 of next year.

Madevilz said:
there was a thread about it, still waiting on the product. Gonna hit 39 in a month, not getting any younger Steve!!
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Ha. I'm doing my best, I need it too haha.

On a serious note, I'm hoping to launch some really unique and comprehensive anti-aging/longevity products around the beginning of the year if all goes well.
 
NattyJuicer said:
I’m not sure if this was requested, but as far as anti aging or slowing down the aging process or improving skin quality and elasticity etc.
Is there is anything in the works!
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Tretinoin: The most researched, science backed ingrediant for skin. It's prescription only. Though it's not illegal to import or posses in the U.S.

Vitamin C(+ Vit. E & ferulic acid) serum: Vitamin C is a cofactor for the synthesis of Collagen). Our skin is made up of 70-80% collagen. The downside is that Vit. C oxidizes rapidly(especially in the presence of oxygen) but Vit. E and Ferulic acid have shown to extend it's lifespan, increase it's antioxidant levels and adds further to its photoprection.

Phoprotection is extremely important to skin health. Sun exposure is the quickest way to age your skin, increases wrinkles, suns⁸pots and the likelihood of skin cancer.

Niacinamide: A book could be written on this ingrediant. Acceptional Pre/Post sun/photoprotection, improves uneven skin tone, brightens skin, helps fix a damaged skin barrier and so much more.

Oil Cleansing Method(OCM): Great way to clean/cleanse your skin(face), improve your skin barrier protection and the quality/appearance of your skin.

These are your top three for skin/skin quality. There are more but most herbs/ingredients have little to no research or flawed studies. I could mention a few more if you are interested.
 
sns8778 said:
I thought about doing something along the lines of a GH type increasing supplement under the anti-aging/longevity lineup when that happens; but also, we should be launching the updated version of Growth Factor XT soon too.
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That would definitely be something for him to look at!
 
Brianmc83 said:
Steve any update on focus xt? Really been missing this my favorite all time supplement
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I'm really hoping that we will have most of the flavors back in stock in October.

As soon as we get the existing ones back in stock we plan to launch a few new flavors too.
 
Ape McGrapes said:
Tretinoin: The most researched, science backed ingrediant for skin. It's prescription only. Though it's not illegal to import or posses in the U.S.

Vitamin C(+ Vit. E & ferulic acid) serum: Vitamin C is a cofactor for the synthesis of Collagen). Our skin is made up of 70-80% collagen. The downside is that Vit. C oxidizes rapidly(especially in the presence of oxygen) but Vit. E and Ferulic acid have shown to extend it's lifespan, increase it's antioxidant levels and adds further to its photoprection.

Phoprotection is extremely important to skin health. Sun exposure is the quickest way to age your skin, increases wrinkles, suns⁸pots and the likelihood of skin cancer.

Niacinamide: A book could be written on this ingrediant. Acceptional Pre/Post sun/photoprotection, improves uneven skin tone, brightens skin, helps fix a damaged skin barrier and so much more.

Oil Cleansing Method(OCM): Great way to clean/cleanse your skin(face), improve your skin barrier protection and the quality/appearance of your skin.

These are your top three for skin/skin quality. There are more but most herbs/ingredients have little to no research or flawed studies. I could mention a few more if you are interested.
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Great info thank you .
Niacinamide
I need to research this !!!
 
Hyde said:
I know there’s been talk of anti-aging supps at some point here, but I wanted to mention that growth hormone also does help skin elasticity/shrink looser skin some - and elevated GH is actually aging. But you see it with “anti-aging” clinics still because it helps skin quality. Of course you don’t need much of it.

So I wanted to draw attention to the idea that in addition to any actual longevity anti-aging supps, any supplements that increase your growth hormone would help support that skin goal too.

This is also a benefit of doing some periodic extended fasts for a few days, where the longer you fast the higher your GH creeps up (and autophagy helps clean up old damaged cells).
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Always been interested in this !
Mk677 was good but sides not worth it!
 
sns8778 said:
Yes, I've been considering doing a few anti-aging & longevity products under SNS, but also have been wanting to do a sub-brand of SNS that would be specifically geared towards anti-aging and longevity. It's a huge project and one that I've put a ton of time and research into, and I'm hoping if all goes well to be able to launch it Q1 of next year.



Ha. I'm doing my best, I need it too haha.

On a serious note, I'm hoping to launch some really unique and comprehensive anti-aging/longevity products around the beginning of the year if all goes well.
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I can’t wait bro !
And thank you so much for the products you bring to the market !
 
NattyJuicer said:
I can’t wait bro !
And thank you so much for the products you bring to the market !
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Thank you. We have a lot of exciting things planned - we just have to balance brining out new things with promoting the existing ones and increasing inventory levels of existing products to keep things in stock.
 
I'm a sucker for single ingredient stuff where I can mix and match easily into stacks...

Something I don't think I've seen solo but would love to be able to try on it's own: Oxyjun. I've seen it included in MST's cordyceps product, but thats about it.
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baldwanus said:
Oh ****, wonder if thats 'new' or if I'm just dumb and never noticed lol.
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They’ve had it for a little while at least, I looked at it when I was interested in the ingredient awhile back. I ran 500mg Arjuna + Ash to replicate studied dosage on it for endurance benefits in the past and enjoyed it (I didn’t use Oxyjun though).

I didn’t look into Oxyjun specifically again so idk what differentiates it and I can’t remember what SNS said (I feel like I asked for single ingredient of this before), but they have 500mg ArjunaPure in Cardiovascular Support XT. I think while that product is obviously marketed and well made for health reasons it also is a stacked formula for anyone wanting to increase endurance or any similar training style.
 
I looked at OxyJun when formulating Cardiovascular Support XT and had decided to go with ArjunaPure for it.

OxyJun is by InnoPhos and we do use a couple of their ingredients, but a lot of their ingredients are extremely expensive as compared to the same ingredient by other companies and in some of these cases, the specs are no different.

We use more branded ingredients than probably any other company our size and I love using branded ingredients BUT I'm always careful at selecting the ones that make sense to use, meaning that I'm not willing to charge a customer 3x the amount for using one that is comparable to the exact same ingredient. I hope that makes sense.

The only thing I'll say related to branded ingredients under the MST brand is that there has been an issue with at least one branded ingredient by them. Example - they claim to sell a branded single ingredient Capsimax and they name it Capsimax. The issue? Omni, the patent holder, does not allow anyone to use Capsimax in the name of the product and the licensing agreement with them requires them to review the labels - SO, if that's not allowed then they obviously never let Omni review their labels; so that leads one to question how they're actually getting the raw materials? Note: I'm not speaking badly about them; just speaking the truth.
 
lionking999 said:
any movement on the “prime” replacement ? extremely excited about that..
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The raw materials part of this was easy because I knew exactly where they got their raws for this, so that was no problem at all. They've already been ordered and the product is in process.

The hardest thing about this has just been figuring out what I was going to name it. I have to decide 100% on a name for it and then finalize the label text and how want the label to look. It will probably be the Recomp20 label style; I think that would make the most sense for this.

I had thought about doing 150 caps or 180 caps and leaning towards 180 caps because I really think the 5 on, 2 off pitch that did for dosing was more based on a sales pitch and to save a little cost per bottle than any actual rationale for it.
 
alvin1 said:
And what about the CEL NattyBolic, still a thing?
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Absolutely.

The story behind that is that I just wasn't 100% happy with the formula and I'm kind of a perfectionist. My original idea was to make a couple changes to it, but then I became involved in the process of working with a branded ingredient company on a really cool new branded ingredient that is in final testing stages and I really wanted that to be in there.

So, the original idea for Nattybolic is actually going to still be coming out but in a much better formula with more cool ingredients and under a different name here within the next few months. And then Nattybolic will be out not too long after and will contain a really exciting new branded ingredient as part of a very inclusive overall formula.

Those will both be under CEL.

The next new natural anabolic release in general will be SNS Pepti-Plex.
 
sns8778 said:
Absolutely.

The story behind that is that I just wasn't 100% happy with the formula and I'm kind of a perfectionist. My original idea was to make a couple changes to it, but then I became involved in the process of working with a branded ingredient company on a really cool new branded ingredient that is in final testing stages and I really wanted that to be in there.

So, the original idea for Nattybolic is actually going to still be coming out but in a much better formula with more cool ingredients and under a different name here within the next few months. And then Nattybolic will be out not too long after and will contain a really exciting new branded ingredient as part of a very inclusive overall formula.

Those will both be under CEL.

The next new natural anabolic release in general will be SNS Pepti-Plex.
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Great time Ahead! What is better to boost Mtor Pepti-plex or PA? What are the advantage of one compare to the other one? Should we stack both, or the mechanism of action will be to similar?
 
alvin1 said:
Great time Ahead! What is better to boost Mtor Pepti-plex or PA? What are the advantage of one compare to another one? Should we stack both, or the mechanism of action will be to similar?
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There is a lot more to Pepti-Plex than mTOR activation; that is only one pathway through which the product will work. That's one of the exciting things about it to me is that it does have a positive impact on mTOR activation, has a positive impact on myostatin inhibition, and also works to help build and retain muscle through some pathways that most people aren't even familiar with.

I think that they will make a perfect stack together and should work very well. I just started adding it into the stack that I've been running myself.

That's one big aspect of us bringing out natural anabolics now days is that we already have so many good ones, that in introducing more, its important that we bring out things that work through different pathways so that we don't just wind up competing with ourselves. And that is something that should be, and hopefully is exciting for customers because it will provide new products that utilize different pathways for maximum stacking or cycling capabilities.
 
alvin1 said:
Great time Ahead! What is better to boost Mtor Pepti-plex or PA? What are the advantage of one compare to the other one? Should we stack both, or the mechanism of action will be to similar?
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I’d have to dig in more to be sure, but from what I’m gathering, I’d lean more toward PA for strength or muscle gain. PeptiStrong helps muscle building, but I’m kind of viewing it as more anti-catabolic, but it also has research showing fatigue reduction. I’ll need reviews to start coming in to really see though.

As far as stacking, it should work. From what I recall, PA acts somewhat upstream and allows more mTOR activation rather than directly signaling. Been so long since I read about it though.
 
Jeremyk1 said:
I’d have to dig in more to be sure, but from what I’m gathering, I’d lean more toward PA for strength or muscle gain. PeptiStrong helps muscle building, but I’m kind of viewing it as more anti-catabolic, but it also has research showing fatigue reduction. I’ll need reviews to start coming in to really see though.

As far as stacking, it should work. From what I recall, PA acts somewhat upstream and allows more mTOR activation rather than directly signaling. Been so long since I read about it though.
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I think that its really hard to compare the two directly, but I think a lot of people will try to because of the mTor activation aspects; but like you mentioned, they do that in different ways so its still hard to directly compare. And I think that they could actually prove very complimentary of one another.

The research on PeptiStrong shows multiple anabolic and anti-catabolic pathways, plus some really cool injury recovery data.

I think that they will make for a great stack; especially for people like myself that have a high protein intake.
 
sns8778 said:
I looked at OxyJun when formulating Cardiovascular Support XT and had decided to go with ArjunaPure for it.

OxyJun is by InnoPhos and we do use a couple of their ingredients, but a lot of their ingredients are extremely expensive as compared to the same ingredient by other companies and in some of these cases, the specs are no different.
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So I guess my request should be more: any chance for ArjunaPure caps in the future?
 
baldwanus said:
So I guess my request should be more: any chance for ArjunaPure caps in the future?
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I would be glad to if there's enough interest in it.

I would be glad to do either one depending on interest, but in my opinion ArjunaPure is the better ingredient and especially for the price.
 
The cool thing about PA is that theoretically it could just be seen as something that is amplifying your training. When we workout PA is released and that can signal mTOR. The cool thing with supplementing PA is that it may work via a different pathway to stimulate PA, kind of like a potentially additive effect to the PA increase from working out. Hence why I like to think of it as amplifying any work you do, it is sending just an increased "signal".

Peptistrong (Pepti-Plex) is going to have some pretty sweet synergistic actions with quite a few different products depending on the direction you want to go with it.

What is interesting with Peptistrong is that it seems to improve recovery (one of the studies showed participants being recovered sooner than the placebo), all while improving protein synthesis, myokine/cytokine response to training (irisin, IL6, IL15, etc.), ribosomal biogenesis, etc. Should be interesting to see how future research pans out, but I am looking forward to seeing how it works for me.
 
I wanted to let everyone know that we extended the Labor Day Sale thru midnight Sunday night, September 10th.

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josun said:
Look into trans resveratrol and NMN
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The issue with NMN now is that the FDA has taken action against it stating that it doesn't meet the definition of a dietary supplement.

I know a lot of people don't care about that part, but here's why it matters:

Any contract manufacturer that is cGMP that were to run an NMN product now would be running the risk of being fined or closed down by the FDA. Therefore, its very hard to find any legitimate brands selling NMN now.

The NMN category of supplements had already been a very high fraud category to begin with and that situation just made it worse.
 
sns8778 said:
The issue with NMN now is that the FDA has taken action against it stating that it doesn't meet the definition of a dietary supplement.

I know a lot of people don't care about that part, but here's why it matters:

Any contract manufacturer that is cGMP that were to run an NMN product now would be running the risk of being fined or closed down by the FDA. Therefore, its very hard to find any legitimate brands selling NMN now.

The NMN category of supplements had already been a very high fraud category to begin with and that situation just made it worse.
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Was not aware of that. So NMN is a scam? I'm using California Gold Nutrition NMN
 
Ape McGrapes said:
@sns8778 Any opinion on Enostim, Prelox or Virilast?
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Enostim looked good on paper but never seemed to translate over into good real world feedback.

Prelox - Expensive and the feedback I've seen on it wasn't great.

Virilast - came out to a lot of hype about 6 or 7 years ago and the feedback wasn't great on it and its an expensive ingredient. Its too expensive to include in a good formula, and as a single ingredient didn't seem to live up to the hype at all.

Not meaning to be negative; always open to suggestions on ingredients. Those are just my thoughts on those.
 
sns8778 said:
Enostim looked good on paper but never seemed to translate over into good real world feedback.

Prelox - Expensive and the feedback I've seen on it wasn't great.

Virilast - came out to a lot of hype about 6 or 7 years ago and the feedback wasn't great on it and its an expensive ingredient. Its too expensive to include in a good formula, and as a single ingredient didn't seem to live up to the hype at all.

Not meaning to be negative; always open to suggestions on ingredients. Those are just my thoughts on those.
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I assumed as much. Nome really impressed me on first look. They are all formulas that can be duplicated or worked upon. Vaso-6 instead of arginine. Pycnogenol and Enostim are pretty much just for their proanthocyanidin content. Nothing regular pine bark or grape seed extract couldn't replace.
 
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josun said:
Was not aware of that. So NMN is a scam? I'm using California Gold Nutrition NMN
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I don't think that NMN is a scam - at least not in the sense of it being a bad ingredient.

The issue is moreso that there have been issues for a long time with products claiming to contain NMN not meeting label claims. When it was still allowable for sale on Amazon, this was a massive problem - fly by night brands popping up and selling it at prices below what it would cost to even make a legitimate NMN product for.

^^^ That is why you never saw it offered from a lot of legit brands, because a lot of brands, including me, didn't want to fool with making one and trying to compete with the number of BS products on the market.

Then awhile ago, the FDA made a statement that NMN doesn't meet the legal definition of a dietary supplement. That led the few well-known legit companies that were making it to stop making it and the ingredient was also pulled off of Amazon and off of most major websites.

So now, with it not being allowed by the FDA, no cGMP manufacturing facility is going to risk even having the ingredient in the building because they could face fines or being shut down. So that takes a situation where it was already hard to find a legitimate NMN product and makes even that much harder.

I'm not familiar with the brand you're taking so I can't speak on them specifically; just on the situation as a whole.
 
A SNS multivitamin would be great honestly. A good quality multi designed specifically for aiding muscle building and providing antioxidant support. I've tried many and the best one that comes close would be Thorne's am/pm multivitamin but it's outrageously expensive for the time being.
 
Johnanthab178 said:
A SNS multivitamin would be great honestly. A good quality multi designed specifically for aiding muscle building and providing antioxidant support. I've tried many and the best one that comes close would be Thorne's am/pm multivitamin but it's outrageously expensive for the time being.
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I have a formula designed for a multi and have received pricing back on it. It's a great formula and would be an awesome product; but I'm just not sure about it on a couple levels.

I would love to hear everyone's feedback on this.

The things with multi-vitamins that makes them problematic and why you really don't see many great ones are:
  • Everyone says they want a great product - but then they want it to be super cheap and that's just not realistic because the better forms of vitamins and minerals are much more expensive; and even if some of the add-in's aren't terribly expensive on their own, there can be so many inclusions that it can add up fast.
  • Everyone says they want a great product - but then people complain about the amount of capsules per day they would have to take; and a well dosed one with the better forms of vitamins and minerals with a few good add in's, you're going to be looking at 3 massive tablets or 4 capsules.
The one that I have designed and priced out would in my opinion be the most comprehensive multi-vitamin/mineral supplement on the market. It would have pretty much all the advanced forms of the vitamins and minerals, but you would be looking at 4 capsules per day and around 29.99 per month.

I'm curious to hear everyone's thoughts on that.
 
sns8778 said:
I have a formula designed for a multi and have received pricing back on it. It's a great formula and would be an awesome product; but I'm just not sure about it on a couple levels.

I would love to hear everyone's feedback on this.

The things with multi-vitamins that makes them problematic and why you really don't see many great ones are:
  • Everyone says they want a great product - but then they want it to be super cheap and that's just not realistic because the better forms of vitamins and minerals are much more expensive; and even if some of the add-in's aren't terribly expensive on their own, there can be so many inclusions that it can add up fast.
  • Everyone says they want a great product - but then people complain about the amount of capsules per day they would have to take; and a well dosed one with the better forms of vitamins and minerals with a few good add in's, you're going to be looking at 3 massive tablets or 4 capsules.
The one that I have designed and priced out would in my opinion be the most comprehensive multi-vitamin/mineral supplement on the market. It would have pretty much all the advanced forms of the vitamins and minerals, but you would be looking at 4 capsules per day and around 29.99 per month.

I'm curious to hear everyone's thoughts on that.
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i guess my opinion doesnt hold weight here since im not in the market for a multi (dont notice benefits from them), but here goes: i recommend albion minerals. they only use elemental forms of the mineral so no bile is needed/dont need to be eaten with food and cellular absorption is better (larger forms can be larger than the cell that is supposed to absorb them, 2) they are double-chelated so they dont compete with other minerals for internally-produced chelation (thus for example albion zinc wont suppress copper levels) 3) they have the only iron that is gras approved by the FDA (non-absorbed iron is pretty much food for bugs) 4) theyre pretty inexpensive. swanson at least can sell them really cheap.

i dont recommend non-coenzymated b vitamins. i remember a study on pyrodoxine that actually lowered levels of p5p over time as the enzymated levels became overwhelmed, resulting in some of the symptoms people get from pyrodoxine. dont know if that holds true with some of the other b vits

im not a fan of multi's containing magnesium, which i dont need and is a laxative. isnt maalox straight up magnesium? that said, spectracell keeps tabs on everyone who has taken the test and magnesium is the most abundant deficiency they came across, probably due to the fact that its laxative qualities may have stopped it from being added to fortified foods in bigger amounts and in most cases at all.

i would argue smaller amounts and thus less caps would be more effective with that than alot of stuff out there.
 
Most multis are way overdosed. I use them just as insurance just in case I am missing something. Id rather have a multi with good forms at a dosage as close to the RDA as possible or less.

The formula should also be taking into consideration the different vitamins and minerals combo that compete for absorption.
 
Madevilz said:
Most multis are way overdosed. I use them just as insurance just in case I am missing something. Id rather have a multi with good forms at a dosage as close to the RDA as possible or less.

The formula should also be taking into consideration the different vitamins and minerals combo that compete for absorption.
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We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. No offense, I see your side - I just have a different point of view.

I want to point out too that I mean absolutely nothing negative by that - I appreciate you posting in this thread and I appreciate you posting on things in general that can lead to good discussion. So if I ever reply to you and explain things or have a different opinion, know that I'm not being negative towards you, I'm just discussing it.

The RDA is the amount needed to sustain life or avoid health conditions related to deficiency - it is in no way related to optimal health or performance.

So even the amounts that would be optimal for a sedentary individual are commonly much higher than the RDA's and the amounts that may be optimal for someone that is active may be even higher.

I'm not saying go overboard for the sake of going overboard; but I do believe a true good multi-vitamin/mineral should contain the dosages of things to where people don't have to go and buy a ton of extra things.

For example - right now, I have to buy a lot of my vitamins separately just because there's not a multi vitamin that I'm happy with the dosages on. There are a lot of people in my situation, and I would love to be able to provide them an option to be able to not have to do that.


As as taking into consideration that certain vitamins and minerals interfere or compete with absorption of one another, I'm very familiar with that and have been posting about that for over 15 years, back long before it was more commonly known. I remember when I used to originally post about that and no one believed it or had ever heard about it haha.
 
thescience said:
i guess my opinion doesnt hold weight here since im not in the market for a multi (dont notice benefits from them), but here goes: i recommend albion minerals. they only use elemental forms of the mineral so no bile is needed/dont need to be eaten with food and cellular absorption is better (larger forms can be larger than the cell that is supposed to absorb them, 2) they are double-chelated so they dont compete with other minerals for internally-produced chelation (thus for example albion zinc wont suppress copper levels) 3) they have the only iron that is gras approved by the FDA (non-absorbed iron is pretty much food for bugs) 4) theyre pretty inexpensive. swanson at least can sell them really cheap.

i dont recommend non-coenzymated b vitamins. i remember a study on pyrodoxine that actually lowered levels of p5p over time as the enzymated levels became overwhelmed, resulting in some of the symptoms people get from pyrodoxine. dont know if that holds true with some of the other b vits

im not a fan of multi's containing magnesium, which i dont need and is a laxative. isnt maalox straight up magnesium? that said, spectracell keeps tabs on everyone who has taken the test and magnesium is the most abundant deficiency they came across, probably due to the fact that its laxative qualities may have stopped it from being added to fortified foods in bigger amounts and in most cases at all.

i would argue smaller amounts and thus less caps would be more effective with that than alot of stuff out there.
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I think that a lot of people don't notice benefits from multis - and that's something I would like to change by offering a great one. Now keep in mind, there's not but so much that someone is going to notice from a multi anyway; but I would like to provide one that has the optimal forms and great dosages.

The product that I have designed and got pricing on - literally every mineral in the product that has an Albion form of it is an Albion mineral.

The downside to Albion minerals is that they are expensive compared to basic mineral forms and also that the input dosages can be very high. You mentioned that they only provide elemental forms - they want their minerals labeled only as elemental amounts, but the input dosages to provide those elemental amounts is actually very high - that leads to needing more capsules for the total formula. The use of Albion minerals is a big part of why it would be a 4 capsule formula.

All of the B Vitamins in the formula would be at their ideal coenzyme forms or ideal types and at ideal dosages.

There are a lot of different types of magnesium. Not all of them have a laxative effect. You mentioned Albion and for example, they make several forms of magnesium that don't have a laxative effect.

As for the smaller amounts and thus less caps - its important to note that with minerals, and especially the best forms like Albion, its not the elemental dosage that takes up so much capsule space; its that a large input dose is required to yield those elemental contents. For example, 75 mg. of input on Zinc to yield 15 mg. elemental; 250 mg. d-magnesium malate to yield 50 mg. elemental; 20 mg. Selenium to yield just 200 mcg. elemental; etc.
 
Madevilz said:
Most multis are way overdosed. I use them just as insurance just in case I am missing something. Id rather have a multi with good forms at a dosage as close to the RDA as possible or less.

The formula should also be taking into consideration the different vitamins and minerals combo that compete for absorption.
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Actually another thought on this anyway though is that if we do the formula that I want to - it would be well dosed and be 4 capsules per day - so if you wanted to go with a lower dosage based on personal preferences, you could actually just take 1 or 2 capsules per day and cater your dose to your individual preferences and then would have the ideal forms of everything and the bottle would just last you longer.
 
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