Strongest product that won’t cause shutdown

[Masterzen]

I was searching back then for the same thing u are now, something hormonal anabolic that wont shut me down.
In the end, months after searching, reading i gave up, not worth doing something halfarsed.

My advice:
Lgd 12mg daily + test base for 8 weeks followed by clomid pct 4 weeks ( 50/50/25/25).
Almost side effect free and nice clean gains.
For the test base i recommend sup3r dhea and lgd legend from Olympus labs, and pharma grade clmoid.

 

[Wildcat528]

I understand you are trying to minimize potential sides (primarily the risks involved with suppression) but it sounds like you're a bit uncertain on whether to run AAS and weighing up whether it's worth the risk. The short story is there really are no steroids which illicit an effective anabolic response without some degree of suppression being experienced and you always roll the dice in terms of whether or not you will fully recover. MK677 is a no bull**** product. It absolutely will speed up your recomp if you keep calories in check. No it won't give you results like AAS or high doses of exogenous HGH but if you can run it for 8-12 weeks and keep your calories in check you absolutely will recomp faster than natural. Then you still have a selection of peptides which you can run alongside if that isn't enough for you. These options are still vastly more effective than the natty anabolic garbage and you will not suffer any degree of suppression.

Definitely interested in mk677 but not sure about brand. Somatozine is an option but I’m waiting to see what payment methods they accept as credit card services are down. Any additional recommendations for brand would be appreciated though!

 

[RickyBlobby]

They injected TEST, E2 and DHT? Please post source of this.

It's in the "clomid on cycle" thread I just bumped.

It was a study where they injected testosterone, E2 and DHT and saw an immediate decrease in LH and FSH. Then they did the same thing, even double the doses to a group on clomid, and he clomid group saw absolutely no decrease in LH and FSH.

I looked through a few pages and could not find it, it is in there somewhere.

 

[mikeymike85]

LOL at people suggesting SARMs and even Halo for a NON SUPPRESSIVE cycle. People c'mon, don't give out such misinformation. All sarms suppress. In meaningful doses they shutdown. Halo lol...

Try pulsing dbol. Just on workout days. That probably wont shut you down. Or try test suspension also just preworkout. But keep in mind, pharmacokinetics differ from person to person. So what works for some might not for others. Also low dose primo 200 to 400 probably wont shut you down. I would go with primo + serm or var + serm.

And if I had money Mk677 + 6mg's cjc dac e5d.

Lol bro simmer down. OP asked about SHUT DOWN, not suppressed. Halo does not Shut you down, and yes I have ran it at least 7 times. Var suppresses the same as Halo, not sure where your math is coming from.

 

[SARMS]

Sooooooo, for clarity on the options we have:

Peptides (MK 677, Cjc w/o DAC, GHRP-2/6)
Anavar
Proviron
A low androgenic anabolic + Serm (Possibly side stepping suppression completely)

 

[Wildcat528]

Sooooooo, for clarity on the options we have:

Peptides (MK 677, Cjc w/o DAC, GHRP-2/6)
Anavar
Proviron
A low androgenic anabolic + Serm (Possibly side stepping suppression completely)

That appears to be correct. How would everyone order those from what to try first to last? I know that I’ll either run MK677, Anavar, or Proviron. I’m just not sure what would be the best to start with out of those. Any recommendations? Thanks again y’all, immensely appreciated.

 

[thefrenchmen]

So just to play devils advocate how about this, say I run var at 20-30 mg for 8 weeks while running say clomid at 25mg/day and I experience some suppression. At the end of the 8 weeks I would probably increase to 50mg/day pharmagrade clomid at least for a couple weeks. Should I be able to still produce some test after completing PCT? Or will the clomid be rendered useless and ineffective? I’m not worried about some suppression as long as it doesn’t mess me up irreversibly long term. Thoughts?

You are thinking way to hard about about this. Run halo 50-75 mg for 6-8 weeks followed my a serm. Have AI on hand.

Done.

 

[Jinsun]

That appears to be correct. How would everyone order those from what to try first to last? I know that I’ll either run MK677, Anavar, or Proviron. I’m just not sure what would be the best to start with out of those. Any recommendations? Thanks again y’all, immensely appreciated.

Mk677 add some cjc + dac, var and 30mg torem. Proviron is not needed. It will only lower shbg even further. Which var will do in any case. You need some shbg, it transports test from testis and does other stuff to. Ooooor just do 500mg test cyp, 250mg's hcg mon/friday, 12.5mg aromasin eod for 12 weeks.

Also, you see my avatar picture? That's me when I was natty. Not even creatine, pwo or whey. Soooo, don't take drugs.

Ok, that's it. Thread closed! Report back in a month with blood results and progress bye bye

 

[Wildcat528]

I will report back after I run either MK677, Proviron, or Var+clomid. I’m leaning towards var+clomid to start but I’ll provide an update with noted effects after being on for a month! Thanks for the help y’all! Looking forward to it!

 

[RickyBlobby]

Var + torem is what I would recommend instead of clomid. It is better for you and most people experience less sides.

 

[Toff]

You're only other choice is Anavar... very very mild and can yield amazing lean gains/strength. I know people that run it 4-5 months straight.

zero chance of finding it though. most online is watered down winny or other cheap easily available product.

 

[YoungThor]

zero chance of finding it though. most online is watered down winny or other cheap easily available product.

What he said. I’ve heard some reputable people claim 99.9% of anavar on the market is actually some other anabolic drug. It’s extremely expensive and difficult to make. It’s also active in very small doses, like 5-10 mg would give you good results. Legit, pharmaceutical grade anavar is sold in doses of 2.5 to 10 mg. But somehow people run it in the 50-100 mg range and still call it mild. I think 100 mg of real anavar would kill you before the cycle is over.

 

[RickyBlobby]

If you know where to look you can find legit var

 

[mikeymike85]

zero chance of finding it though. most online is watered down winny or other cheap easily available product.

Sorry I dont agree. I run it 3x a year, you know if its real. Go up the most ripped guy in your gym. Pumps and veins at 75mg are crazy

 

[Toff]

so will 75mg of any other compound.

you only need 10mg.

 

[RickyBlobby]

so will 75mg of any other compound.

you only need 10mg.

Eh, they give 10mg to kids... BB doses should be significantly higher IMO

 

[Brenwad]

Var is not an expensive drug at all. It's readily available in the UK,genuine,legit Var used by my Mrs many times,no andro sides,just fat loss,muscle gain and horney like a black guy surrounded by fat white bitches

 

[RickyBlobby]

lol

 

[mikeymike85]

Lol bro- you dont have real Var if you don't think its not expensive, its extremely expensive.

 

[Toff]

Sooooooo, for clarity on the options we have:

Peptides (MK 677, Cjc w/o DAC, GHRP-2/6)
Anavar
Proviron
A low androgenic anabolic + Serm (Possibly side stepping suppression completely)

Proviron is DHT based right? So maybe epiandro at 3-400mg per day transdermal then a small pct would be best.

 

[Wildcat528]

Due to some issues of finding a reputable supplier that has var in stock it looks like I may be looking at a first go of MK677 down in a couple weeks with clomid. Do y’all thinking 12.5-25mg/day of mk677 would be sufficient? And is there anything else you would add to it? It appears to be a good recomp agent IF you can keep the hunger in check. So that may be tricky but worth a shot to start. What do y’all think?

 

[ericos_bob]

I'd start at 12.5 and just see how you go with sides. Personally I had to start at 5mg ED. I ran 20mg ED for months but I've settled on 20 EOD. I feel best on this schedule and see the same benefits as at 20mg ED. The source I used for my powder raws is no longer around but I've found most brands I've tried are effective though some seem more potent than others.

 

[Wildcat528]

I'd start at 12.5 and just see how you go with sides. Personally I had to start at 5mg ED. I ran 20mg ED for months but I've settled on 20 EOD. I feel best on this schedule and see the same benefits as at 20mg ED. The source I used for my powder raws is no longer around but I've found most brands I've tried are effective though some seem more potent than others.

Hey thanks a bunch man, what sides did you notice? And what are the most notable effects that you personally observed? Thanks for the insight!

 

[ericos_bob]

I attempted 25mg from the getgo. Gave me insomnia and anxiety. After reloading with 5mg I had an increase in appetite and by dosing in the AM improved energy through the day. This is all I notice in the way of sides now when I restart MK use after time off. As for benefits I see improved pumps in training. Actually crazy good pumps but I'm used to it now as I've been on MK for a long time. The best thing is it keeps the fat off. I can shovel food down like at 21 without gaining fat. That's a big benefit for me as prolonged bulking/less cutting equates to faster gains.

In addition I just feel physically great. Over the years of training (I'm 33) I've had a bunch of niggles and pains pop up from training Shoulder issues and back mostly. I feel perfect now. No aches and pains of any kind. I can't pin this directly on MK. I may just be going through a good phase in my life it's just coincidence but it seemed I had a lot of small problems prior to the two years I've run MK677 which are no longer there.

 

[YoungThor]

Wildcat528 Why run clomid with mk677? You don’t need it. It doesn’t effect test levels.
ericos_bob it’s definitely the mk677 that’s making you feel good. I’m on 20mg a day and it’s helping my shoulder heal a little faster (dislocation). I’ve started walking about 10 miles a day to help lean out and I also lift with my legs twice a week. I’m pretty much never sore and my body just generally feels good and energy is up. So I don’t think it’s a coincidence in your case. Are you just taking mk or are you stacking it with anything else?

 

[Wildcat528]

Wildcat528 Why run clomid with mk677? You don’t need it. It doesn’t effect test levels.
ericos_bob it’s definitely the mk677 that’s making you feel good. I’m on 20mg a day and it’s helping my shoulder heal a little faster (dislocation). I’ve started walking about 10 miles a day to help lean out and I also lift with my legs twice a week. I’m pretty much never sore and my body just generally feels good and energy is up. So I don’t think it’s a coincidence in your case. Are you just taking mk or are you stacking it with anything else?

I’ve always just had low test to they put me on it just to see how it affected my levels and it brought me up to a normal range. Actually into the upper normal range. I might be able to come off it but it’s one of those if it isn’t broke don’t fix it things. I’m getting bloods done soon though so if I’m good again I’ll push to get off it for sure.

 

[Wildcat528]

I attempted 25mg from the getgo. Gave me insomnia and anxiety. After reloading with 5mg I had an increase in appetite and by dosing in the AM improved energy through the day. This is all I notice in the way of sides now when I restart MK use after time off. As for benefits I see improved pumps in training. Actually crazy good pumps but I'm used to it now as I've been on MK for a long time. The best thing is it keeps the fat off. I can shovel food down like at 21 without gaining fat. That's a big benefit for me as prolonged bulking/less cutting equates to faster gains.

In addition I just feel physically great. Over the years of training (I'm 33) I've had a bunch of niggles and pains pop up from training Shoulder issues and back mostly. I feel perfect now. No aches and pains of any kind. I can't pin this directly on MK. I may just be going through a good phase in my life it's just coincidence but it seemed I had a lot of small problems prior to the two years I've run MK677 which are no longer there.

Thanks man I’ll definitely start with the 12.5 mg then and go from there! Awesome to hear about those effects though. Definitely looking forward to it!

 

[Toff]

you might want online blood tests frst to be sure you know what you're 'growing'

 

[ericos_bob]

'growing'?

 

[Wildcat528]

Yeah I’m not sure I understand what he means at all. Hahahah wait, online blood tests? Is that where you enter how strong you feel on a scale of 1-10 and how bad you wanna bang chicks and then it spits out your test levels? “Well I entered a 4 on one and a 6 on the latter and it says I’m definitely at 650 ng/dL” lol

 

[Jinsun]

Just another thought for you...

SERM's raise T levels on there own. You can do a "cycle" just with a SERM. Now all you need to add is something to lower SHBG. Even stuff like Arimistane does a good job at that. But I would preferably add either 6.25 aromasin eod or e3d. Also var lowers shbg. You can add low dose var, like really low dose (5mg) and it will significantly lower shbg and raise free T.

So just an example of such a cycle:

Torem 30mg's eod
Var 5 - 10mg's ed just for shbg or more like 10 - 20mg's ed for an added anabolic effect on it's own.
Aromasin 6.125mg's e3d or as needed as estrogen will shoot up a little with the increased serum levels of test
Ashwaganda KSM-66 600mg's ed
Mk677 25mg's ed

+ optional cjc1295dac as much as the wallet allows lol. But in the light of keeping it nice and eazy: 1mg e5d.

This would be a really nice and totally unsuppressive cycle that one could run for a couple of months and get good results from it for a lean bulk or a cut, but then drop the Mk if it causes to much hunger. This is for natty's, experienced aas user that have a high FFMI wouldn't get much from it, probably good enough just for maintenance.

 

[SARMS]

Just another thought for you...

SERM's raise T levels on there own. You can do a "cycle" just with a SERM. Now all you need to add is something to lower SHBG. Even stuff like Arimistane does a good job at that. But I would preferably add either 6.25 aromasin eod or e3d. Also var lowers shbg. You can add low dose var, like really low dose (5mg) and it will significantly lower shbg and raise free T.

So just an example of such a cycle:

Torem 30mg's eod
Var 5 - 10mg's ed just for shbg or more like 10 - 20mg's ed for an added anabolic effect on it's own.
Aromasin 6.125mg's e3d or as needed as estrogen will shoot up a little with the increased serum levels of test
Ashwaganda KSM-66 600mg's ed
Mk677 25mg's ed

+ optional cjc1295dac as much as the wallet allows lol. But in the light of keeping it nice and eazy: 1mg e5d.

This would be a really nice and totally unsuppressive cycle that one could run for a couple of months and get good results from it for a lean bulk or a cut, but then drop the Mk if it causes to much hunger. This is for natty's, experienced aas user that have a high FFMI wouldn't get much from it, probably good enough just for maintenance.

That's a great cycle, I have been interested in SERMs as natural test boosters as everyone is aware that they raise test substantially. But the question has been, is that 50% increase from Clomid enough to contribute to the growth? Who knows. I personally think Peptides are the way to go as far as a safe alternative to AAS. As you said, MK 677 + Cjc w DAC produces almost AAS like results. What would you suggest for an ectomorph trying to pack on as much mass as possible in 2 months? I guess MK 677 for the appetite, being oral GHRP-6 essentially. Anything else? Would you still recommend Cjc 1295 dac for a mass gaining cycle? I'm still not convinced how effective that 400 Igf-1 would be as far as gainig pure size.

 

[Jinsun]

Don't mix total test with free test. Free test will get a significant boost. And free test is the thing you want to raise.

Tbh even natty test boosters can work great. For instance Alphamax xt raised my free to 30 (ref range 7-24). I felt like a beast on that, more so than on a 250 test cycle I am on now. Super aggressive, better recovery and endurance. It helped me a lot. A serm + var + aromasin would probably put my free t somewhere at 40 - 50 pg/ml. Probably. As for others it depends on jow much shbg you have and othrr factors. My shbg was at the upper level, so Alphamax did wonders for me there. 2x the free test is a cycle! You will get better recovery and more growth, no doubt.

Mk677 + 60mcg/kg cjcdac. Don't know about results as I haven't tryed cjc yet but it certanly will help.

 

[Wildcat528]

Just another thought for you...

SERM's raise T levels on there own. You can do a "cycle" just with a SERM. Now all you need to add is something to lower SHBG. Even stuff like Arimistane does a good job at that. But I would preferably add either 6.25 aromasin eod or e3d. Also var lowers shbg. You can add low dose var, like really low dose (5mg) and it will significantly lower shbg and raise free T.

So just an example of such a cycle:

Torem 30mg's eod
Var 5 - 10mg's ed just for shbg or more like 10 - 20mg's ed for an added anabolic effect on it's own.
Aromasin 6.125mg's e3d or as needed as estrogen will shoot up a little with the increased serum levels of test
Ashwaganda KSM-66 600mg's ed
Mk677 25mg's ed

+ optional cjc1295dac as much as the wallet allows lol. But in the light of keeping it nice and eazy: 1mg e5d.

This would be a really nice and totally unsuppressive cycle that one could run for a couple of months and get good results from it for a lean bulk or a cut, but then drop the Mk if it causes to much hunger. This is for natty's, experienced aas user that have a high FFMI wouldn't get much from it, probably good enough just for maintenance.

That’s a very intriguing idea for sure. I will perhaps start with the SERM+MK677 for a couple weeks just so I can determine how I’m reacting to the mk677. Then I can add in the var and then assess again. If I just start a bunch of new compounds at once I won’t really be able to say for certain which I like best and responded best to ya know? I mean if I start mk677 and after 2 weeks I’ve got a solid pump or increased strength or lower body fat then I’ll know it had an effect on me. If I do mk677 and var at once and get those effects then I won’t know much. I mean I know that stacking from the start would yield better results probably but there is value to determining how a single compound affects you. With new compounds or anything really I try to control all variables and maintain them as constant with the exception of the addition of the new compound under analysis.

 

[Jinsun]

Nah man, mk677 is weak. That's just to add on effects. Var 5mg + torem is the cycle not just torem. Serms increase shbg. You need free test not total test.

 

[Wildcat528]

Nah man, mk677 is weak. That's just to add on effects. Var 5mg + torem is the cycle not just torem. Serms increase shbg. You need free test not total test.

I hear ya man but I’m personally curious to see how a solid dose of mk677 treats me. Some swear by it and the studies appear to support it’s effects. I’ll give it a couple weeks and then add the var with SERM to get the real fun started! Plus I need to wait a few weeks for the var to get back in stock. So it’ll keep me busy until then lol

 

[Jinsun]

I hear ya man but I’m personally curious to see how a solid dose of mk677 treats me. Some swear by it and the studies appear to support it’s effects. I’ll give it a couple weeks and then add the var with SERM to get the real fun started! Plus I need to wait a few weeks for the var to get back in stock. So it’ll keep me busy until then lol

Ok I hear ya. If you've got the patience...go for it

 

[Wildcat528]

Ok I hear ya. If you've got the patience...go for it

Hahaha yeah, we’ll see how this whole being patient thing goes. Check back with me at the end of the week hahaha. Out of curiosity, if one ran a SERM straight up what are some other options for compounds to decrease SHGB?

 

[SARMS]

Don't mix total test with free test. Free test will get a significant boost. And free test is the thing you want to raise.

Tbh even natty test boosters can work great. For instance Alphamax xt raised my free to 30 (ref range 7-24). I felt like a beast on that, more so than on a 250 test cycle I am on now. Super aggressive, better recovery and endurance. It helped me a lot. A serm + var + aromasin would probably put my free t somewhere at 40 - 50 pg/ml. Probably. As for others it depends on jow much shbg you have and othrr factors. My shbg was at the upper level, so Alphamax did wonders for me there. 2x the free test is a cycle! You will get better recovery and more growth, no doubt.

Mk677 + 60mcg/kg cjcdac. Don't know about results as I haven't tryed cjc yet but it certanly will help.

Yeah the free test thing is important too, but to be honest I have given up on testosterone to give me gains without resorting to AAS. That's why I believe in peptides for growth, at any rate. What's your feeling on IGF-1 and MGF as supplements? I prefer the GHRPs as I feel they are less likely to be bunk. I struggle with eating enough to put on weight, so I want to use MK 677 for the appetite and as you've said, adding Cjc 1295 dac will help push the GH spikes up even further... I just hope those higher spikes in HGH and obviously IGF-1 will equate to gains. Fast.


I know the bigger GH spikes will minimize fat gain on a bulk, but I want the GRF to improve muscle gain too... It surely has to be better than natural right haha? I guess I will be dosing Cjc at 5 mg a week, 20 mg for a month and maybe 2 months is long enough to provide results

 

[SARMS]

Hahaha yeah, we’ll see how this whole being patient thing goes. Check back with me at the end of the week hahaha. Out of curiosity, if one ran a SERM straight up what are some other options for compounds to decrease SHGB?

Natural supps would be Boron at 12 mg per day, fructose too. Tongkat ali has effects on SHBG too....
Estrogen can increase SHBG, so in theory an AI would reduce it.
But honestly man, SHBG levels are a risky thing to put all your money on as some studies reveal it is actually important for the effect of androgens.. It transports them into the cell receptor.


If I were you, I'd take fringe drugs as far as I could without getting too deep. Meaning if you can take 5 mg of Anavar and get away with it, go for that and work hard.

 

[Wildcat528]

Natural supps would be Boron at 12 mg per day, fructose too. Tongkat ali has effects on SHBG too....
Estrogen can increase SHBG, so in theory an AI would reduce it.
But honestly man, SHBG levels are a risky thing to put all your money on as some studies reveal it is actually important for the effect of androgens.. It transports them into the cell receptor.


If I were you, I'd take fringe drugs as far as I could without getting too deep. Meaning if you can take 5 mg of Anavar and get away with it, go for that and work hard.

Thanks for the advice man, greatly appreciated! Due to capsule size I think the lowest I can run the var is at 10mg/day. Could you please elaborate on what you mean by and examples of “fringe” products? Sorry if that’s a dumb question.

 

[Toff]

Yeah I’m not sure I understand what he means at all. Hahahah wait, online blood tests? Is that where you enter how strong you feel on a scale of 1-10 and how bad you wanna bang chicks and then it spits out your test levels? “Well I entered a 4 on one and a 6 on the latter and it says I’m definitely at 650 ng/dL” lol

hah no not quite, ims ure the USA have them but the UK has pharmacy websites you fillin a questionair, it goes to a doctor, then he sends a clicker out, you drain your blood into a tube and post it off for results.

 

[Toff]

Just another thought for you...

SERM's raise T levels on there own. You can do a "cycle" just with a SERM. Now all you need to add is something to lower SHBG. Even stuff like Arimistane does a good job at that. But I would preferably add either 6.25 aromasin eod or e3d. Also var lowers shbg. You can add low dose var, like really low dose (5mg) and it will significantly lower shbg and raise free T.

So just an example of such a cycle:

Torem 30mg's eod
Var 5 - 10mg's ed just for shbg or more like 10 - 20mg's ed for an added anabolic effect on it's own.
Aromasin 6.125mg's e3d or as needed as estrogen will shoot up a little with the increased serum levels of test
Ashwaganda KSM-66 600mg's ed
Mk677 25mg's ed

+ optional cjc1295dac as much as the wallet allows lol. But in the light of keeping it nice and eazy: 1mg e5d.

This would be a really nice and totally unsuppressive cycle that one could run for a couple of months and get good results from it for a lean bulk or a cut, but then drop the Mk if it causes to much hunger. This is for natty's, experienced aas user that have a high FFMI wouldn't get much from it, probably good enough just for maintenance.

nice man, great info. Hard to get any kind of response like this for those who dont always want to go balls deep with major stacking cycles (or who arent at the level of fitness to pull it off)

 

[Toff]

That’s a very intriguing idea for sure. I will perhaps start with the SERM+MK677 for a couple weeks just so I can determine how I’m reacting to the mk677. Then I can add in the var and then assess again. If I just start a bunch of new compounds at once I won’t really be able to say for certain which I like best and responded best to ya know? I mean if I start mk677 and after 2 weeks I’ve got a solid pump or increased strength or lower body fat then I’ll know it had an effect on me. If I do mk677 and var at once and get those effects then I won’t know much. I mean I know that stacking from the start would yield better results probably but there is value to determining how a single compound affects you. With new compounds or anything really I try to control all variables and maintain them as constant with the exception of the addition of the new compound under analysis.

still got a tub in my cupboard, couldnt get past the lethergy... makes me wonder if it is mk677 or something supressive with no test base. Either way 10mg was enough.. but we dont really know if its growing cancer cells aswell as muscle

 

[YoungThor]

still got a tub in my cupboard, couldnt get past the lethergy... makes me wonder if it is mk677 or something supressive with no test base. Either way 10mg was enough.. but we dont really know if its growing cancer cells aswell as muscle

The only way mk677 helps grow cancer cells is if you already have cancer.

 

[Rad83]

So I read thru this whole
15 page’r ...What ya end up doin?

 

[Newth]

Remember Proviron, S4 and Osta if you want low shut down.