stano-drol vs androhard
- Thread starter Mafesto31
- Start date
jbryand101b
Banned
this is a dumb question, one can only guess what that would be.
i dont know eric's thinking behind how he dosed androhard, but i'd imagine it would be so the dosing would be equal to what other products are.
so maybe 1 stanodrol capsule=1 androhard capsule, but really, who the fcuk knows.
i dont know eric's thinking behind how he dosed androhard, but i'd imagine it would be so the dosing would be equal to what other products are.
so maybe 1 stanodrol capsule=1 androhard capsule, but really, who the fcuk knows.
MattPorter
Banned
150 mg per capsule of stanodrol
200mg per softgel of androhard v3
Let's say stanodrol absorbed even 15% that would equate to 23mgs of hormone
Let's say AndroHard v3 absorbed 85% (Eric thinks 95%) but lets just go with this --- equate to 170mgs of hormone
From that it would be 7 caps of stano to = 1 softgel of AhV3
Whether these absorption rates are accurate ---- the potency of the androhard is simply much stronger per serving.
A full serving of 6 softgels is 1200mgs of hormone....they recommend 8 or so which is 1200mgs.....
Would be interesting to see someones blood after dosing both products and see where their 3a & 5a androstane levels are as well as DHT...
Matt
200mg per softgel of androhard v3
Let's say stanodrol absorbed even 15% that would equate to 23mgs of hormone
Let's say AndroHard v3 absorbed 85% (Eric thinks 95%) but lets just go with this --- equate to 170mgs of hormone
From that it would be 7 caps of stano to = 1 softgel of AhV3
Whether these absorption rates are accurate ---- the potency of the androhard is simply much stronger per serving.
A full serving of 6 softgels is 1200mgs of hormone....they recommend 8 or so which is 1200mgs.....
Would be interesting to see someones blood after dosing both products and see where their 3a & 5a androstane levels are as well as DHT...
Matt
chocolatemilk
Well-known member
i did this back in april with the old androhard (2nd version with the grapefruit juice) compared to stano
calculate:
1. how many mg of stano can be bought for the price of 1 bottle androhard
2. androhard is a 56 day cycle so divide all that stanodrol that can be bought by 56 to see how much stano you can take/day for the same price
3. check PP's charts to see how much DHT conversion they project with a single serving of androhard. when you see how many mg of DHT is produced/daily serving, calculate the conversions rate from that serving. last i checked in april 300mg of androhard converted to 95.5mg of dht/week. that was a 4.55% conversion rate. their new version will be different.
4. now for that same amount of DHT, calculate what conversion rate stanodrol NEEDS to match androhard's DHT/week using all that stanodrol/day that can be bought for the price of 1 androhard. back when i did this i found stano needed a 1.13% conversion rate to achieve 95.5mg of dht per week for the same price
if stanodrol in reality has a higher conversion rate than what you calculate for it (i had 1.13%), it is better to buy stano. im almost positive stano has a better conversion rate than 1.13% or else it would be hard to even notice any DHT effects from it so back then i figured stanodrol was the better buy. this was with the old androhard keep in mind. new one will give a different number. D-plex would be a true comparison tho.
it is simple math going from step to step, you just need the information from PP's site on how much andro converts to DHT... i dont know if it's still on there.
btw they compared androhard, a DHT pro with little to no anabolic activity to 375mg of testosterone/week which i can surely attest to it's anabolic activity having used 400mg test e/week........ last i recall the old version was compared to masteron which is a much better comparison. saying androhard will be anything like 375mg of testosterone is stupid
calculate:
1. how many mg of stano can be bought for the price of 1 bottle androhard
2. androhard is a 56 day cycle so divide all that stanodrol that can be bought by 56 to see how much stano you can take/day for the same price
3. check PP's charts to see how much DHT conversion they project with a single serving of androhard. when you see how many mg of DHT is produced/daily serving, calculate the conversions rate from that serving. last i checked in april 300mg of androhard converted to 95.5mg of dht/week. that was a 4.55% conversion rate. their new version will be different.
4. now for that same amount of DHT, calculate what conversion rate stanodrol NEEDS to match androhard's DHT/week using all that stanodrol/day that can be bought for the price of 1 androhard. back when i did this i found stano needed a 1.13% conversion rate to achieve 95.5mg of dht per week for the same price
if stanodrol in reality has a higher conversion rate than what you calculate for it (i had 1.13%), it is better to buy stano. im almost positive stano has a better conversion rate than 1.13% or else it would be hard to even notice any DHT effects from it so back then i figured stanodrol was the better buy. this was with the old androhard keep in mind. new one will give a different number. D-plex would be a true comparison tho.
it is simple math going from step to step, you just need the information from PP's site on how much andro converts to DHT... i dont know if it's still on there.
btw they compared androhard, a DHT pro with little to no anabolic activity to 375mg of testosterone/week which i can surely attest to it's anabolic activity having used 400mg test e/week........ last i recall the old version was compared to masteron which is a much better comparison. saying androhard will be anything like 375mg of testosterone is stupid
chocolatemilk
Well-known member
absorbtion does not equal conversion to target hormone. you are implying androhard converts to dht at 95% LOL
jbryand101b
Banned
oh, huh, didn't realize it had 200mg of androsterone per capsule, i would of thought it had less d/t increased absorbtion. interesting.
hmm... i like cm's logic. let me look at how much androhard cost, i dont care about conversion numbers, cause it's just a pipe dream.
androhard v3
6 caps e/d= 1200mg*, a 28 day (4 week) supply, for only $129.95
stanodrol:
3 bottles for 120 bucks (if you pay full price of 40$)
so for a 4 week supply (30 days) it would be:
9 caps e/d= 1,350mg
i personally dont know anyone who has ran stanodrol at 1,350mg e/d, as i dont think anyone has needed to, but im sure someone has before.
now granted, androhard v3 has a special delivery system, but i dont know if the enhanced delivery would equate to the 1,350mg of stanodrol.
but, if you guy 2 bottles of androhard for 260$ to run a 4 week cycle, you'll get 2400mg plust the special delivery system,
and if you bought 6 bottles of stanodrol for 240$ to run a 4 week cycle, you'll get 2700mg, but no added delivery system.
all in all, as i said before, i dont think one can really make this argument unless we have a bunch of people using both androhard v3 for 28 days, AND stanodrol at 9 caps e/d for 30 days.
/thread.
hmm... i like cm's logic. let me look at how much androhard cost, i dont care about conversion numbers, cause it's just a pipe dream.
androhard v3
6 caps e/d= 1200mg*, a 28 day (4 week) supply, for only $129.95
stanodrol:
3 bottles for 120 bucks (if you pay full price of 40$)
so for a 4 week supply (30 days) it would be:
9 caps e/d= 1,350mg
i personally dont know anyone who has ran stanodrol at 1,350mg e/d, as i dont think anyone has needed to, but im sure someone has before.
now granted, androhard v3 has a special delivery system, but i dont know if the enhanced delivery would equate to the 1,350mg of stanodrol.
but, if you guy 2 bottles of androhard for 260$ to run a 4 week cycle, you'll get 2400mg plust the special delivery system,
and if you bought 6 bottles of stanodrol for 240$ to run a 4 week cycle, you'll get 2700mg, but no added delivery system.
all in all, as i said before, i dont think one can really make this argument unless we have a bunch of people using both androhard v3 for 28 days, AND stanodrol at 9 caps e/d for 30 days.
/thread.
jbryand101b
Banned
whoops, forgot to carry the two. fixed, thanks.
okay, 1200mg to stanodrols 1350. well, hmm, still need someone to run 3 bottles of stanodrol & androhard v3 to see if it is less or more potent than the androhard v3.
any rich asss volunteers?
Eric Potratz
Board Sponsor
maybe its just cause I woke up from a nap but this post made zero sense to me...
If you want a simple comparison, just look at absorption. Plain androsterone (no ester) is not going to absorb any better than 50% just by its solubility limits. So right there, you AH is 2x more potent any standard pill of androsterone.
This is also assuming that you take the standard pills of androsterone with fat, and you have a working gallbladder. (fat + bile = increased solubility) If you took standard pills of androsterone on an empty stomach, you may not absorb any at all. So we are dealing with 0-50% absorbed. (yes, I have studies for this)
So in the most favorable possible scenario, stanodrol would be 2x weaker than AH... and possibly 5-10x weaker in less optimal digestive environment.
-Eric
chocolatemilk
Well-known member
well i must give credit to eric
androhard V3 is decently priced... the V2 was a straight joke at how much more of the same compound you could buy minus the grapefruit
androhard V3 is decently priced... the V2 was a straight joke at how much more of the same compound you could buy minus the grapefruit
HereToStudy
Primordial Performance Rep
Yawn....
chocolatemilk
Well-known member
it's cuz you woke up
back in april when i was crunching those numbers i couldve bought 5x as much stanodrol to the androhard V2, so in a possible favorable scenario, stanodrol would have been better...
but anyways, the V3 looks good for the money this is the first time i looked into the new version
MattPorter
Banned
I apologize for the confusion.... I did say "HORMONE" not DHT
In fact I will go out and say right now that DHT will be high.....but not nearly as HIGH as 3a androstandiol glucuronide....which bloods showed way wayyy above average high range on our testers labs.
-Matt
chocolatemilk
Well-known member
unless you're using it as a marker for testing DHT... why does having high levels of a DHT metabolite that is way down on the chain ready to be pissed out matter?
chocolatemilk
Well-known member
i'm sorry you never have anything intelligent to contribute to a discussion except swinging on eric's nuts after he posts trolllololololol
let's get you involved shall we? why are you marketing androhard to be anything like 375mg of testosterone? your last version was compared to masteron, androgenic with little to no anabolic value aka a good comparison... that is some crazy misleading marketing to people who don't understand the difference... androhard will be absolutely NOTHING like 375mg of test E... explain
MattPorter
Banned
Whoa....we compared it to DHT enanthate (not drostanolone propionate)? it was 191mg give or take The A:A ratio is different as masteron is actually anabolic...Not sure why you are attacking HTS so badly, he's a nice guy?
I can understand that the marketing is hard to interpret as I , myself was skeptical, but after understanding all the R&D we invested into this and seeing real empirical evidence pan out as we knew it would......I am a firm believer. I am no fool to hormones, genetic responses to hormones, and false claims.
Not sure what your agenda is here.
-Matt
chocolatemilk
Well-known member
no offense but i asked him and not you for a reason...
you're correct now that i recall it was DHT enanthate not masteron that AHV2 was compared to... an even better comparison than i thought
but go to PP site --> products --> androhard --> comparison
and read me the first thing androhardV3 is compared to... 375mg of testosterone enanthate... thaa fack
i think the masses deserve a better explanation for that than the marketing is hard to interpret... or that you fact checked it so it's all good
HereToStudy
Primordial Performance Rep
Hey Sweat heart, why don't you get those panties out of a wad? Or is this going to turn into another thread where you go on a rampage calling everyone a fat homosexual? Funny when I have Need2 reps (who I am told very much dislike me) coming to me with PMs apologizing on your behalf and mentioning that they in no way support you.
If you bothered to read (or can?), you should check out the white papers, which do explain the equivalence. We assume most of our customers can read. Let me copy it here for you...
Invalid Link Removed
HereToStudy
Primordial Performance Rep
He was a little bit upset when I pointed out that he was repping for a company selling steroids they were to cheap to test for purity. He then went on a tirade calling me gay, rodja skinny, and other members of the board fat....class act move from a guy I used to have a lot of respect for and even defended to some of my regular contacts on numerous occasions.
chocolatemilk
Well-known member
lulz, i had to go out with a bang
"more appropriately 180mg/week of DHT enanthate" that's more like it... but that would be on the white papers and not on the main comparison every consumer sees.
anyways, you obviously have no idea how these comparisons were made so save me the copy and paste
eric should explain these "Overall androgenic, anabolic & estrogenic activity" because i dont think anyone in their right mind can see how a DHT prohormone would produce the anabolic equivalent to almost 400mg/test e/week
are you saying you're taking into account every single metabolites androgenic/anabolic/estrogenic values? if so, please state each metabolite and it's ratings so we can see how this was done
chocolatemilk
Well-known member
:sly:
HereToStudy
Primordial Performance Rep
Are you really not reading what it says? It is based on the TOTAL of the androgenic/anabolic/estrogenic values. I will make this simple for you. You can have three red balls, three blue balls, and three green balls. This gives you a total of nine balls. If you were to have eight red balls, one blue ball, and zero green balls, you would still have the same exact total of those three. It clearly states in that write up that AndroHard has primarily an androgenic effect. So the TOTAL value would be due to the very high androgenic activity.
As for the values to provide you, it isn't a simple Androsterone + Epi-Androsterone + 4-Androstenedione + 4-Androstenediol + DHT = XXXX calculation, it has to rely upon the assume conversions at each step, estimated as closely as we can with supported studies.
chocolatemilk
Well-known member
is that a serious explanation or are you f*cking with me?
why the hell would having such a high androgenic effect magically yield an immense anabolic effect as well? lololololol
just stop and get eric to explain this
HereToStudy
Primordial Performance Rep
Oh my god, I am talking to a child. Do I need to draw the balls for you to get it? Its anabolic activity makes up very little in that comparison, that is why it is a total of 3 parts, and since it is significantly more androgenic than testosterone, this makes the total higher.
If you cant follow that, go get a god damn GED.
chocolatemilk
Well-known member
would you like some french cries? im sorry your discussion about balls makes no sense lololol.. you were just bashing me for insulting people... tsk tsk tsk... biochem degree in 1 semester
ok, so you're adding the overall anabolic/androgenic/estrogenic value for testosterone at 375mg/week
then you're adding the overall anabolic/androgenic/estrogenic value for your DHT prohormone
and since the androgenic score on DHT is very high it is raising the overall value to match testosterones overall value at 375mg/week???
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
BRB... going to synthesize an estrogenic compound with such a high estrogenic value it will make the overall anabolic/androgenic/estrogenic value of that compound match testosterone at 1000mg/week
HereToStudy
Primordial Performance Rep
would you like some french cries? im sorry your discussion about balls makes no sense lololol.. you were just bashing me for insulting people... tsk tsk tsk... biochem degree in 1 semester
I will remind you that you started the insults. You took the turn from us getting along, and I followed suit...
Although I will say I find the education system lacking if you were not able to decipher that from the first post I made that was a direct grab from the white papers explaining this in plain english. It also immediately categorized it as mostly androgenic. We also provide a full chart detailing expectations, including estrogenic activity, so that comment was pretty meh. I am sure you can look across the boards and not find many (...and we are excluding people who run **** without knowing what it is) who don't realize this is a strong androgenic product. So now that you tried to play forum hero, can we call it quits so I can get back to some gears of war?
JudoJosh
Pro Virili Parte
Xbox?
I just bought the season pass today (yea I know like 2 months late!) and cant wait to get off work so I can see what DLC I get with it
chocolatemilk
Well-known member
like my little joke showed, overall A/A/E scores mean absolutely nothing. i can have a purely estrogenic compound with such a high estrogenic rating it would match the overall score of 1000mg of testosterone/week. then i can market it as equivalent to overall A/A/E score of 1000mg test/week with the little paragraph explanation with no numbers in the white papers which need to be emailed and downloaded lololol
that's the most retarded way i've ever heard of two compounds being compared to each other... and btw who the f*ck sums the A/A/E scores anyways they are completely different variables lmao. since when could we sum different variables to give any meaningful value lulz... all you have on the main comparison tab is:
...any possible way to get the word testosterone associated with the products right? PP is king of that LOL
but hey, marketing is marketing, and i semi-lost interest unless you fire me back up lulz... go on now and get back to your video games
jbryand101b
Banned
Oy zoy oy
HereToStudy
Primordial Performance Rep
Xbox?
I just bought the season pass today (yea I know like 2 months late!) and cant wait to get off work so I can see what DLC I get with it
Yeah, snagged one on black friday, so I am pretty late as well.
Those are for a user to interpret. Explain a better way of describing a compound to me than A:A. While vida's system is by no means perfect, it is still categorically the best way to describe what is to be expected of a compound, and oh yeah, A:A IS directly a comparison to testosterone.
Again, your estrogen comment is retarded and undeserving of a response, if we marketed a product as such as you speak of then we can talk, until then move forward.
As for the comparison to testosterone, I am not sure what we are missing? I will state that with v2, it was slightly off the "test base" due to the lethargy experienced from 1-DHEA, but we took care of that. V3 will provide the user with the closest possible experience to testosterone that is currently available over the market. We also have guys who have put on ~15 lbs in 6/8 weeks, what kind of weight would you expect?
Lets not talk about foolish marketing. You may not be affiliated with Need2 anymore, but you very much were swinging from those nuts as well, "yo bro get them formastanzol OMG", "HCGenerate is great in PCT omg, my balls are so big." You defended them through what should have been their downfall when they openly stated they don't test hormones. I wish you weren't a biochem major and had taken some business classes, or you would have understood a bit more than to honestly respond to that with "haha bro, we are not even Mr. Supps, diff company bro." The best part was? You were doing this for ****ty product credit (I know exactly what you were making).
As a reminder: After numerous attempts of Nate to convince me to leave Primordial and rep for Need2, which I had the intelligence to turn down, Nate asked one last time, and I made a joke about him not being able to afford me. You immediately sent me a PM stating something to the case of "Well if you change your mind, we can make sure you are taken care of." Which was laughable in multiple ways. Funny how when that didn't work out (and the inevitable controversies of the company arose), I suddenly don't know what I am talking about.
...and thanks for allowing me the video game time, I know your comment was sarcastic in nature, but I enjoyed it.
RickRock13
Well-known member
With all due respect, please leave the needto comments away from this thread. I try to direct my fellow reps to refrain from getting into pissing matches with those from other companies. Its disrespectful, unprofessional, and not how we "roll". I know how things have been in the past sir, but this issue is between you and chocolate milk. Neither NTBM or any of its reps have any affiliation with this thread whatsoever. I am a big fan of mutual respect, and I will do my best to keep it that way :group hug:
HereToStudy
Primordial Performance Rep
Fair enough. As you know I have respect for you and some of your other reps, so I will refrain from mentioning the company in my communication in this thread, which I am hoping will come to an end soon.
RickRock13
Well-known member
HereToStudy said:
Sounds good man. Like I said, I know the direction that things have went in the past, but I would like to move past that and not let either one of our respective companies or any current reps be associated with it.
chocolatemilk
Well-known member
lol @ you living in the past. i dont rep for anyone durr. we were cool then that's why i was offering you that what's your point?
you really dont get it... you guys are not using the A:A RATIO that's my whole point... it's a ratio... you can't add those two figures for anabolic and androgenic and get any meaningful value for it... do you not understand that?
PP practically took the A:A ratio, added the factor of estrogenic to make it an A:A:E ratio and then you added all three numbers to get an overall score for Testosterone at 375mg/week. not only that, but you're using that overall score to somehow compare other compounds together. that makes no sense whatsoever... you can't just add up all 3 variables and call something equivalent because it matches the same overall score.
since when in the history of steroids did people start adding vida's A:A ratios? let alone call compounds equivalent based on the sum of those numbers lmao. do you honestly not see what's wrong with that?
jherman08
Well-known member
well of course
MattPorter
Banned
Im typing from my phone, and eating at macaroni grill so i wont type long. For f@ck sake......enough banter about A:A ratios. The most important part is real people are gaining 10, 15, 20lbs in 4-8 weeks. That is fact. People will either buy it for the price or not. End of story.Now back to this chicken,Shrimp , pasta rigatoni meal...
Matt
Matt
Eric Potratz
Board Sponsor
Our equivalencies are based on bioactivity science. The explanation is probably beyond the scope of this thread, but Ill give some quick clues...
In bioassay research you will find analysis of total androgenic or estrogenic activity. Since we know the A:A ratio of these hormones from the vida, we consider those values too, hence our A:A:E ratio is a hybrid equivalence claim based off bioassay studies and A:A ratios mainly from the vida.
In essense, we wanted to give people a general ballpark of effects from andro products. In theory, deriving a testosterone equivalent value from estrogen is possible. This of course on the most extreme end of the spectrum. The effects of DHT and testosterone are closer than the effects of testosterone and estrogen IMO. (probably a 70% overlap between T and DHT, with maybe only 30-40% overlap between T and E)
The 375mg/week TE claim for AH makes sense in a real world setting. You would have a hard time differentiating a full dose of AH vs. 375mg/week of injectable T enanthate by examining end user results, bloods, physical examination, etc. The differences would become more clear as months went on, but would still be similar.
Eitherway, bioassays are being used now to calculate the appropriate dose of DHT for TRT by simply measuring the total "androgen" activity. Naturally, the science will evolve, and we will see total estrogen activity measured in the TRT seeking male too. There is more logic in calculating the sum of hormone activity, rather than individual hormones. Its just a matter of correlating total "sum" estrogen or androgen activities with blood levels of individual hormones, creating an economical bioassay test, and implementing this in a clinical setting. Id say in the next 10-15 years we will see docs testing for "androgen activity" rather than T levels. I
I expanded on this a bit last year on SHR - Invalid Link Removed
-eric
chocolatemilk
Well-known member
yes i know the estrogen case would be extreme but i was just trying to show why you can't sum the scores and call something equivalent... which is what was being explained. i understand what you're trying to do with T and DHT being more similar than T and E but when T is compared to other steroid hormones (without the outlier of estrogen) DHT becomes the outlier case in your system. something that is either purely anabolic, androgenic, or estrogenic seems too far fetched to throw into this "equivalence" system as it would not accommodate to the other factors enough to compare. DHT is one of those unfortunately, nandrolone as well, and simply estrogen of course. the ratios should stay as ratios as they mirror the differences in compounds. an overall "androgenic activity" skews what the compound is actually doing in the body.
don't take offense but i personally don't believe an amount of DHT would produce the anabolic effects of 375mg/test having used 400mg/TE/week. Androgenic effects yes and beyond. But DHT has a tough time staying within the muscle alone without being converted to a weaker metabolite as it's normal allocation in the body is not in the muscle. too many factors against it playing an anabolic role in muscle tissue (molecular structure including) when compared to testosterone.
however, the only reason i even cycle testosterone with other compounds like nandrolone or superdrol is for the DHT. the ol "add a test base" has long been mistaken, and should have been dubbed add a DHT base. so i will grab a bottle when funds allow and i am very much in favor of the product----less on the marketing and equivalence science. but ya can't win em all...
this thread has been drawn out long enough. thanks for the explanation.
oufinny
Well-known member
Thanks for the explanation, this makes sense. The real question is how does it work for YOU? I loved AH V1, it worked very well and I would recommend it to anyone. I did not take V2 and will be trying V3 eventually after it gets to some of the online retailers. By the way, when is it getting to places like NP and Orbit guys?
ryansm
Well-known member
~3 weeks or so I believe
MattPorter
Banned
If I am not mistaken, Orbit should be getting it first. In fact he may be getting the 3 products (hard, drive and mass) by end of this week
Matt
oufinny
Well-known member
Nice... time to make some plans for it. I am really curious about AndroDrive as well.
jbryand101b
Banned
androhard v3 looks interesting, i think i'll give it a go after i get back from vacation. glad you guys take paypal
JudoJosh
Pro Virili Parte
Got me a bottle of AHv3 coming my way and cant wait to try it out. I got some of primodials old 1-T tren that I am gonna stack with it. Should be good times
HereToStudy
Primordial Performance Rep
Glad to see you guys will be enjoying it 
BigBlackGuy
Well-known member
Keep checking Facebook... Invalid Link RemovedYou know... just in case