soy=bad..do ALL whey protien powders have soy in it?

swollen87

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im pretty sure this is the right section, if it isnt, my bad..

i just found out im allergic to gluten.. im also trying to avoid anything with soy in it.....

this allergy made me think, why the hell would a supplement company use an ingredient that can lower testosterone ... somewhere i read an article that a birth control pill contains 20mcgs of estrogen, and you can get somewhere near 60mcgs of estrogen from any protien that contains soy lecithin..

does anyone know of a protien powder that doesnt contain soy lecithin?

there was one company that made this product named embryolic or some **** like that.... idk if i trust it...

im sure someone else out there supplements with protiens that dont contain soy.... soy is known to be horrible for male reproductive systems....


any suggestions?
 
djbombsquad

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Soy is not bad for you. I take soy all the time and I love it. I n Japan Soy is a staple of there diet and they have one of the healthiest populations in the world. Who ever told you soy is bad look at the thread on soy I commented on.
 
swollen87

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Soy is not bad for you. I take soy all the time and I love it. I n Japan Soy is a staple of there diet and they have one of the healthiest populations in the world. Who ever told you soy is bad look at the thread on soy I commented on.

it is known to lower testosterone.... in my mind... anything that lowers testosterone, i dont want.... plus, im allergic to it.... oh yeah.... in japan soy is NOT a "staple" contrary to popular belief.... it is simply a side dish..

not to mention, soy flour was found to cause pancreatic cancer in rats-(wiki)


study...
Clinical and biological activity of soy protein powder supplementation in healthy male volunteers, Department of Medicine, University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey.


PURPOSE: To determine if a commonly used soy protein supplement exhibits biological activity in vivo and in vitro, we evaluated an over-the-counter soy protein powder supplement using blood from healthy male volunteers and in an estrogen receptor in vitro assay.

SUBJECTS AND METHODS: We recruited healthy male volunteers 18 years of age or older that were in good health. Treatment consisted of consuming two scoops (56 g) of pure soy protein powder daily for 28 days. Serum testosterone and luteinizing hormone (LH) levels were collected on days -7, 0, 14, and 28 of therapy, and day 42.

RESULTS: Twelve subjects were enrolled with a mean age of 32.25 years (range 25 to 47). Serum testosterone decreased 19% during the 4-week use of soy protein powder and increased within 2 weeks after we discontinued soy protein powder. Soy protein powder was found to induce agonist activity to ER-beta using a reporter estrogen receptor assay in yeast.

CONCLUSION: Soy protein powder decreases serum testosterone levels in healthy men...


i need something that doesnt have soy in it... any suggestions or opinions
 
StackedCop

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I read something about soy lowering testosterone in MD when I was like 12 and I have avoided it since....
 
swollen87

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I read something about soy lowering testosterone in MD when I was like 12 and I have avoided it since....
yeah, but have u been able to eliminate it completely????

this shti is in EVERYTHING lol...

with this new diet i have to be on i find soy and gluten in almost anything except the cleanest foods i can make...

isopure
myofusion
syntha-6

and many many others have soy letchin in it... and I DONT WANT THAT lol...
 
StackedCop

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I haven't really looked but all I really eat is steak, chicken, tuna, eggs, oatmeal and brown rice. So I don't think there's much soy in those foods. When I said I avoid it I meant I don't drink soy milk lol
 
djbombsquad

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That is one study and it does not mention there diet life style if they lift weights etc. What brand of soy was it any way. Soy concentrate soy isolation etc? There are so many factor to it. I consume soy and I lift heavier than most the non soy eaters at my gym.
it is known to lower testosterone.... in my mind... anything that lowers testosterone, i dont want.... plus, im allergic to it.... oh yeah.... in japan soy is NOT a "staple" contrary to popular belief.... it is simply a side dish..

not to mention, soy flour was found to cause pancreatic cancer in rats-(wiki)


study...
Clinical and biological activity of soy protein powder supplementation in healthy male volunteers, Department of Medicine, University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey.


PURPOSE: To determine if a commonly used soy protein supplement exhibits biological activity in vivo and in vitro, we evaluated an over-the-counter soy protein powder supplement using blood from healthy male volunteers and in an estrogen receptor in vitro assay.

SUBJECTS AND METHODS: We recruited healthy male volunteers 18 years of age or older that were in good health. Treatment consisted of consuming two scoops (56 g) of pure soy protein powder daily for 28 days. Serum testosterone and luteinizing hormone (LH) levels were collected on days -7, 0, 14, and 28 of therapy, and day 42.

RESULTS: Twelve subjects were enrolled with a mean age of 32.25 years (range 25 to 47). Serum testosterone decreased 19% during the 4-week use of soy protein powder and increased within 2 weeks after we discontinued soy protein powder. Soy protein powder was found to induce agonist activity to ER-beta using a reporter estrogen receptor assay in yeast.

CONCLUSION: Soy protein powder decreases serum testosterone levels in healthy men...


i need something that doesnt have soy in it... any suggestions or opinions
 

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Soy lecithin will not hurt you in this regard, its a byproduct of oily deposits on soybeans and actually has choline in it...NOT the same thing as taking in straight soy. Also, additionally (I wouldn't want to test it but I am just saying) the proper amount of soy in a man's body actually competes with aggressive forms of estrogen on estrogen receptors. So it can actually reduce estrogen related issues to a small degree, but only at the proper amount, which is why I say I would never test it.
 
monstermash

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Healthy N Fit 100% whey pro-amino has no soy lecithin in it.
 

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a lot of people the big boys and people in the know say that the very best top of the line company mainly protien is beverly international and nutra planet carries this brand.it is suppose to be the holy grail of supplment company but you pay a price they say for the results they give but i have not research there stuff enough to know if it has soy.they have more than one prtien type.hopes this helps i am going to try some bevrly products in the future.
 
swollen87

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That is one study and it does not mention there diet life style if they lift weights etc. What brand of soy was it any way. Soy concentrate soy isolation etc? There are so many factor to it. I consume soy and I lift heavier than most the non soy eaters at my gym.

the fact that you "lift heavier" than most non soy eaters doesnt mean your testosterone levels are high.

the study i posted clearly mentioned SOY lowering testosterone...

you are 140 lbs... if you are lifting more than all the other people who dont eat soy, you have some soft-ass motherf**kers in your gym....

i found this article very interesting, i think you might too

The Evils of Soy
by Cy Willson



We intially broke the "soy conspiracy" story back in issue #87 in an article titled Bad Protein. However, since it's such a potentially important story, and since new evidence has since surfaced, we figured it was a topic worth revisiting. Hence this article.


A little over a year ago, soy protein was the talk of the town. It was invited to all the parties, and it was even rumored to be having a little romantic fling with Jennifer Aniston from Friends (before she married Brad Pitt).

Likewise, the general media was touting it to be the best thing since sliced bread, or was that 100% stone ground wheat bread? Oh well. Anyhow, since the government gave soy a "thumbs up" to the public, stating that, "25 grams of soy protein per day, as part of a diet low in saturated fat and cholesterol, may reduce the risk of heart disease," people began to think that it was indeed the best protein around. After all, it was relatively high in quality, cheap, and healthy! What else could you want?

And to boot, a few studies arose from the muck to indicate that this protein may enhance anabolic hormone levels and may increase thyroid hormone levels while dieting. Sounds soooo good. Right? Well, after a good amount of both scientific and "real world" evidence has surfaced, it turns out that soy may not be so good after all. Especially for the male bodybuilder.

Sounds all too familiar to me. Reminds me of the evil-painted women that I and other hapless men have encountered in the past. Sure, she's beautiful, classy, smart, loaded, and best of all, horny! Nothing could be better in life. That is, until you start to discover that your wallet's missing 200 bucks and it now burns when you take a pee.

Ouch! Sounds pretty harsh, eh? Well, even so, this still isn't even close to what soy has done to us. I'll let you in on all of the evil and destructive things that soy can do to you, should you decide to consume it. Sadly though, we must be careful, as many companies are still adding this vile crud into protein formulas, bars, and meal replacements. Hopefully, after you hear what I have to say, you realize that soy shouldn't be consumed by male bodybuilders. Not even your worst enemy deserves the horrid effects that soy is capable of producing. Okay, enough rambling, let's get to it.

First though, before we begin, I just want to go over some quick review material, just to make sure we're all on the same page. The reason why soy is so bad basically boils down to the isoflavones that it contains. Two of these isoflavones, genistein and daidzein, are what cause the majority of negative effects seen with soy protein use.

These two villains bind readily to Estrogen Receptors. One such receptor is the Alpha receptor and the other, of course, is the Beta receptor. The Alpha receptor is the one generally associated with breast tumors, increased body fat, water retention, etc. The Beta receptor really isn't something to worry about. Anyhow, genistein and daidzein can bind rather well to the Alpha receptor.

No big deal right? Well, it might actually be somewhat beneficial if they didn't activate transcription to any significant degree, as this would be what's considered an anti-estrogenic action. In other words, it would be good if the compound binded to the site and didn't cause any growth, while preventing any naturally-produced estrogen from binding (the estrogen "parking spots" would already be filled). However, genistein does activate transcription to a significant degree after binding to the Alpha receptor and therefore will cause growth of tissues.(1,2,3)


Two of America's Most Wanted

Unfortunately, the two soy isoflavones that I mentioned previously can have numerous adverse effects on everything ranging from Testosterone production, thyroid production, muscle growth, and even health.

Let's consider soy's affects on T production first. The ability of soy protein to decrease Testosterone levels has been well demonstrated. One study displayed a 76% reduction of Testosterone production in men, after ingestion of soy protein over a brief period of time.(4) In yet another study, an inverse association was found between soy protein intake and Testosterone levels in Japanese men.(5)

Finally, in yet another study, using healthy adult males, a diet containing soy was compared to a diet that consisted of meat protein in terms of sex hormone concentrations. Well, after evaluation, Testosterone levels were significantly lower in the soy diet. Not only this, but the estimated amount of free Testosterone was 7% lower after the soy diet as well.(6)

Hey, mice didn't fare much better. Testosterone and LH were also lowered in mice consuming only the isoflavone genistein.(7)

The evidence seems pretty conclusive. There may, of course, be other factors, but it's enough to give one pause when considering whether or not he should add some soy to his next protein drink.


IGF, Thyroid, and the Girly Hormones

It's fairly clear that soy protein lowers testosterone levels. How does it affect estrogen and progesterone levels? You'd figure that genistein would at least reduce the activity of estrogen to some extent, since it binds at the same receptor site, right? Well, apparently not. It turns out that genistein does not inhibit the effects of estradiol and in fact has been demonstrated to exert an additive effect when combined with estradiol.(2,8)

This means that they don't interfere with one another and can both exert the same negative effects at the same time, thus, packing a double punch. Furthermore, genistein may potentially increase estradiol levels as well. It's thought that this may occur because genistein may deconjugate estrone in the gut and allow for it to reabsorb into the bloostream and convert to estradiol.(9)

It's possible that it may also exert some progestational activity.(10) Even worse is that the estrogenic activity of these phytoestrogens may have been underestimated in the past, as there is evidence that they may be much more potent in vivo as opposed to in vitro [test tube] studies.(11) Oh, and while we're still on the topic or hormones, soy protein has also been shown to decrease IGF-1 concentrations in male rats.(12) Oh, and I'd feel bad if I forgot to mention that it can lower T4 levels, too.(13)


Protecting Our Future

While planting a seed definitely isn't an immediate goal of mine, I'm sure there are plenty of guys out there who wish to pass on their superior genes. So, for these men, I urge you to not let your child or pregnant wife consume any products that contain soy. While there isn't concrete evidence as of yet, there's still enough to warrant some caution.

For instance, when female rats were fed genistein while pregnant, their pups weighed significantly less than the groups that weren't fed genistein.(14) Also, when young rats were given genistein, spermatogenesis decreased, as did body weight, testicle size, and possibly the urge to mate. Another study found similar results.(15,16)

Oh, and before I forget, genistein has been shown to cause testicular cells to die, in vitro at least.(17)


Healthy? I Think Not

The main reason why the government decided to "sponsor" soy protein was because it can supposedly reduce the risk of heart disease. However, the funny, or scary, thing is that soy has actually been shown to decrease HDL cholesterol.(18,19) HDL cholesterol is the good kind.

Furthermore, it's possible that the isoflavones can induce growth and malignancy of the prostate. This is because the ER Alpha is thought to be at least partially responsible for the induction of growth. So, in theory, since genistein can agonize the ER Alpha in much the same way as estradiol, then it could cause growth of the prostate.(20)


Okay, So What About my Muscles?

Okay, now let's move on to the important stuff. How good is soy protein in terms of increasing muscle growth? Well, when compared to casein, it was beaten in terms of both protein synthesis and breakdown.(21) So, we know that it can't match proteins like casein or whey. What else? Well, even though this might make you cringe, I feel obligated to tell you. Get this, genistein was shown to inhibit myoblast proliferation and fusion in a dose-dependent manner!

It decreased protein synthesis and inhibited protein accretion as a result. These results occurred even at the lowest dose. The authors concluded that if animals consume enough soy, those concentrations of genistein could potentially affect normal muscle growth and development.(22)

Now that's some frightening stuff! Okay, so things couldn't get any worse for soy, right? Well not only may it interfere with muscle growth, but it may screw with your pro-hormone usage. Why is that? Well, genistein may interfere with the conversion of 4-androstenediol to Testosterone, thus, reducing the effectiveness of your favorite supplement to a good degree! This happens because it interferes with the enzyme 3 Beta-HSD.(23)


The End?

Boy, I wish it were the end, but the fact is that many companies, with the encouragement of the government, will continue to add soy protein to their products. However, like many of us fringe-element weight lifters have for so many years, we'll stand by and endure while the rest of the world makes a big mistake.

The next thing you know, there will be a big story about how truly harmful this stuff is to the male. Hopefully it won't be too late. But hey, maybe I'm being a bit hypercritical here. I mean, who knows, this may actually be a good supplement for the average woman. They seem to think they need more estrogen and less muscle, so more power to 'em.

For those T-Vixens, however, stay away from it! Especially while pregnant. Anyhow, my advice for you would be to read every food and supplement label that you have to make sure that there isn't any soy within the product. I mean, hey, you'll be checking the macronutrient profile anyhow, so just skim on down to the ingredients from now on. Be careful, you'd be surprised by how many items have been tainted. For now, good luck and keep your eyes peeled.


References Cited

1.Breinholt V, et al. "Estrogenic activity of flavonoids in mice. The importance of estrogen receptor distribution, metabolism and bioavailability." Food Chem Toxicol 2000 Jul;38(7):555-64

2.Casanova M, et al. "Developmental effects of dietary phytoestrogens in Sprague-Dawley rats and interactions of genistein and daidzein with rat estrogen receptors alpha and beta in vitro." Toxicol Sci 1999 Oct;51(2):236-44

3.Stahl S, et al. "Phytoestrogens act as estrogen agonists in an estrogen-responsive pituitary cell line." Toxicol Appl Pharmacol 1998 Sep;152(1):41-8

4.Zhong, et al. "Effects of dietary supplement of soy protein isolate and low fat diet on prostate cancer." FASEB J 2000;14(4):a531.11

5.Nagata C, et al. "Inverse association of soy product intake with serum androgen and estrogen concentrations in Japanese men." Nutr Cancer 2000;36(1):14-8.

6.Habito RC, et al. "Effects of replacing meat with soyabean in the diet on sex hormone concentrations in healthy adult males." Br J Nutr 2000 Oct;84(4):557-63

7.Strauss L, et al. "Genistein exerts estrogen-like effects in male mouse reproductive tract." Mol Cell Endocrinol 1998 Sep 25;144(1-2):83-93

8.Santell RC, et al. "Dietary genistein exerts estrogenic effects upon the uterus, mammary gland and the hypothalamic/pituitary axis in rats." J Nutr 1997 Feb;127(2):263-9

9.Harrison RM, et al. "Effect of genistein on steroid hormone production in the pregnant rhesus monkey." Proc Soc Exp Biol Med 1999 Oct;222(1):78-84

10.Zand RS, et al. "Steroid hormone activity of flavonoids and related compounds." Breast Cancer Res Treat 2000 Jul;62(1):35-49

11.Nagel SC, et al. "The effective free fraction of estradiol and xenoestrogens in human serum measured by whole cell uptake assays: physiology of delivery modifies estrogenic activity." Proc Soc Exp Biol Med 1998 Mar;217(3):300-9

12.Aukema HM, Housini I. "Dietary soy protein effects on disease and IGF-1 in male and female Han:SPDR-cy rats." Kidney Int 2001 Jan;59(1):52-61

13.Klein M, et al. "Energy metabolism and thyroid hormone levels of growing rats in response to different dietary proteins?soy or casein." Arch Tierernahr 2000;53(2):99-125.

14.Flynn KM, et al. "Effects of genistein exposure on sexually dimorphic behaviors in rats." Toxicol Sci 2000 Jun;55(2):311-9

15.Atanassova N, et al. "Comparative effects of neonatal exposure of male rats to potent and weak (environmental) estrogens on spermatogenesis at puberty and the relationship to adult testis size and fertility: evidence for stimulatory effects of low estrogen levels." Endocrinology 2000 Oct;141(10):3898-907

16.Whitten PL, et al. "Phytoestrogen influences on the development of behavior and gonadotropin function." Proc Soc Exp Biol Med 1995 Jan;208(1):82-6

17.Kumi-Diaka J, et al. "Cytotoxic potential of the phytochemical genistein isoflavone (4',5',7-trihydroxyisoflavone) and certain environmental chemical compounds on testicular cells." Biol Cell 1999 Sep;91(7):515-23

18.Ashton E, Ball M. "Effects of soy as tofu vs meat on lipoprotein concentrations." Eur J Clin Nutr 2000 Jan;54(1):14-9

19.Madani S, et al. "Dietary protein level and origin (casein and highly purified soybean protein) affect hepatic storage, plasma lipid transport, and antioxidative defense status in the rat." Nutrition 2000 May;16(5):368-75.

20.Risbridger G, et al. "Evidence that epithelial and mesenchymal estrogen receptor-alpha mediates effects of estrogen on prostatic epithelium." Dev Biol 2001 Jan 15;229(2):432-442

21.Schadereit R, et al. "Whole body protein turnover of growing rats in response to different dietary proteins?soy protein or casein." Arch Tierernahr 1999;52(4):311-21

22.Ji S, et al. "Soybean isoflavones, genistein and genistin, inhibit rat myoblast proliferation, fusion and myotube protein synthesis." J Nutr 1999 Jul;129(7):1291-7

23.Keung WM. "Dietary estrogenic isoflavones are potent inhibitors of beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase of P. testosteronii." Biochem Biophys Res Commun 1995 Oct 24;215(3):1137-44
 
T-Bone

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Soy isn't as evil as you think it is. It can actually be good for you. If you look hard enough you can find studies claiming anything is bad is for you or good for you. Have you read the studies claiming Multi-vitamins do no good for you?. Guess what?. I still take a multi-vitamin. If you want to live your live and determine your nutrition by studies you find on the internet go right ahead.
 
swollen87

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Soy isn't as evil as you think it is. It can actually be good for you. If you look hard enough you can find studies claiming anything is bad is for you or good for you. Have you read the studies claiming Multi-vitamins do no good for you?. Guess what?. I still take a multi-vitamin. If you want to live your live and determine your nutrition by studies you find on the internet go right ahead.


did u read the very first post in this thread?

I AM ALLERGIC ... meaning i cant eat it... its BAD FOR ME.

and how can soy be good for anyone? i dont see too many positives coming out of lower testosterone, and higher estrogen

no, ive never seen a study saying multi-vitamins are bad for you...

please enlighten me

if u wanna eat soy thats ur choice, im not gunna risk it.... i simply wanted to know what protien powders were available without soy
 
T-Bone

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did u read the very first post in this thread?

I AM ALLERGIC ... meaning i cant eat it... its BAD FOR ME.

and how can soy be good for anyone? i dont see too many positives coming out of lower testosterone, and higher estrogen

no, ive never seen a study saying multi-vitamins are bad for you...

please enlighten me

if u wanna eat soy thats ur choice, im not gunna risk it.... i simply wanted to know what protien powders were available without soy

Yes I read that you are allergic. There is no study saying multi-vitamins are bad for you. However there was a recent study saying they have no benefits.
 
T-Bone

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If you are allergic I guess your best bet is just to avoid protein powders. I just spent some time "googling" for you to look for a soy free protein powder. I could not find anything, sorry. Trying to help out but like I said your best bet is just avoiding protein powders all together.
 
dsade

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Soy lecithin will not hurt you in this regard, its a byproduct of oily deposits on soybeans and actually has choline in it...NOT the same thing as taking in straight soy. Also, additionally (I wouldn't want to test it but I am just saying) the proper amount of soy in a man's body actually competes with aggressive forms of estrogen on estrogen receptors. So it can actually reduce estrogen related issues to a small degree, but only at the proper amount, which is why I say I would never test it.
This. Soy Lecithin != soy protein.
 
djbombsquad

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Many people have been asking me about a report that has
been circulating on the internet called "Soy Products
Is A Poison".

Let me start by saying that this report would never
have been published in any reputable scientific
journal. It simply would not pass scientific peer
review.

But no scientific review is required for articles
circulated on the internet. There is also no
requirement for scientific accuracy.

The internet has aptly been described as the 21st
century version of the "wild west".

Let me start by putting this article in the appropriate
context - the context of the scientific process.

Scientists are continually testing and challenging
existing paradigms. It is through this process that
scientific knowledge evolves and changes over the
years.

Because of this you will always find articles in the
scientific literature on both sides of every issue.
That means that if someone has a particular agenda that
they want to advance they can always find papers that
support their viewpoint.

However, when a review of a subject is submitted to a
scientific journal, it is expected that the review will
include a balanced evaluation of the papers on both
sides of the issue.

The report currently circulating on the internet is
extremely one-sided. It completely ignores or tries to
discredit any papers that don't fit the preconceived
views of the authors - which is why it would never be
accepted by a reputable scientific journal.

Let me just give you a few examples of why I consider
this report to be inaccurate and misleading (I won't
respond to all of the inaccuracies. I'm sure you don't
want to read a 12-page "Tips From The Professor").

1) Scientific articles on the benefits of soy outnumber
articles on the risks of soy by about 10 to 1. That is
why the summary statement from the Third International
Soy Symposium emphasized the benefits of soy in the
diet.

The authors of the report circulating on the internet
tried to discredit those studies by saying that they
were supported by big companies with a interest in soy.

In fact, the biggest and best studies in the soy
literature have been supported by the National
Insitutes of Health - a government agency.

In addition, I can speak from experience on those
studies that were company-supported.

I have conducted a number of company-sponsored research
projects in my academic career. Before such research
can be conducted the university requires the company to
sign a legal agreement prohibiting them from
influencing the outcome of the research or blocking
publication of unfavorable results.

2) The internet report contains many half-truths and
inaccuracies concerning "anti-nutrients" found in soy -
things like trypsin inhibitor, haemagglutinin, and
phytates.

For example the report says "Weanling rats fed soy
containing these antinutrients [trypsin inhibitor and
haemaggltinin] failed to grow normally."

That's true, but is it relevant?

Both trypsin inhibitor and haemagglutinin will be
present at fairly high levels in edamame (lightly
steamed soy beans) and at somewhat lower levels in
cooked soy beans. But how many people eat edamame or
cooked soy beans on a daily basis - or feed them to
their toddlers on a daily basis?

The level of these compounds in most processed soy
products is minimal, and there is not a single clinical
study showing that the small amounts of these compounds
in processed soy products cause problems in small amounts.

3) The story is similar for phytates. High phytate
foods are only a significant problem in certain third
world countries where the intake of zinc and other
trace minerals is marginal to begin with - and phytates
are almost completely removed in the preparation of
Some soy protein products like the one I use.

4) The internet report would lead you to believe that
most soy products are contaminated with aluminum,
nitrites and other toxic chemicals formed during
processing. This may be true for certain "textured
vegetable protein" meats and similar food products, but
it is not true for soy products made by companies like
Shaklee that employ rigorous quality control tests at
every step in the preparation of their products.

I could go on, but I think that you get the point. This
article distorts the facts and only reports studies
that support their viewpoint.

When you look at the totality of the scientific
literature, it is clear that the benefits of soy far
outweigh the risks.
 
tnubs

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liquid egg whites? not quite whey but it stays in ur system longer
 
ryansm

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We do not use it in our MAP<which I use exclusively now over whey for workouts.

MAP
 

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I was under the impression that Asians have soy as a small part of their diets, not in the volumes that westerners consume (glasses of soy milk a day) and secondly that they fermented the soy in a manner which is better for the consumer, rather than the chemical processing that large corps such as Monsanto utilise..
 
swollen87

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We do not use it in our MAP<which I use exclusively now over whey for workouts.

MAP
id like to try some ... wanna send me a sample??
 
swollen87

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Many people have been asking me about a report that has
been circulating on the internet called "Soy Products
Is A Poison".


you should have stopped right there..... nobody here asked for your defense of soy.... im not sure how i can make it more clear to you..... i am allergic to soy, and i want a protien that doesnt have soy in it.... you f**kin dwarf
 
ryansm

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There are some websites that cater to designer protein mixes in which I'm sure you can get what you need.
 
swollen87

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There are some websites that cater to designer protein mixes in which I'm sure you can get what you need.
can you pm me some of them plz?
 

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ori hofmekler has a soy free One. BUT its more of a whole food, a 80 precent milk concentrate RAW intact protein, and its from grass fed cows. In my mind its one of the best and HEALTHiest forms around.
 

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