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Slicin' and Dicin'

OHP
10 x bar
2 x 5 x 95
3 x 115

2 x 135
1 x 155, 170, 185

Push press
2 x 5 x 205

OHP
2 x 10 x 95

Seated DB press
1 x 20 x 40lb

DB laterals
1 x 20 x 30lb

DB forwards
1 x 20 x 25lb

Notes
Having missed OHP last week I could feel it this week. Not so much in strength, that wasn't an issue, just in that form felt a little out of practice.

Second set of pushpress was like butter. Found my groove by then.
 
Deads
5 x 170, 215
3 x 260

Switch grip:
1 x 300, 340, 375, 405

RDL
5 x 315 hook grip
8 x 275 DOH

Lat pulldowns
10 x 115, 169, 205

Hoist seated mid row
12 x 135, 195
(Never used this one before)



Notes
Man that's a lot of change plate changing, lol.

Just a bunch of shenanigans today. Wraps up what I think was a pretty decent deload week. Somehow now that it's getting damn cold out, golf has made a return to my life but that's good cause I need more steps in my life. So tomorrow afternoon and Saturday morning I'll be walking 5 or so miles.

Sat afternoon and Sunday will be fence building and yard work then Seahawks, food, rest and kick off cycle 7 on Monday.

 
Looks like a pretty intense deload session.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Looks like a pretty intense deload session.
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Do you think it was too much? I am still looking for balance in my deloads but volume is pretty low. Dropped BBB/BBS (10x5 or 5x10) entirely, replaced with a couple decent sets of the RDLs, then just some supplemental lat work since I have not had time to hit those accessories during normal training.

the top single was 90% of my TM (which shows at 442.5 right now).

I do wonder if my TM for pulls is too low. next week, week 1 of cycle 7, is amrap of 375 with a target of 12+ reps. that seems a bit ridonculous for pull work.

In cycle 6 I pulled 405 x 7, and 445 x 1 as a joker later in week 3. so 405 x 1 seemed like an appropriate heavy-ish rep. but I'm still trying to find that balance between not enough work, and too much effort on deloads.

my only thought at the moment is that my deload in cycle 5 was my heaviest deload yet. I 'touched' heavy"ish" weights but dropped volume a ton and week 1 of cycle 6 was one of my best week 1s. so I was hoping that touching stuff I can easily recovery from will keep me primed but also recovered for week 1 of cycle 7.

I have Fri/Sat/Sun to rest, start on monday. I will have 2 rounds of golf, in very cold weather, and some farm work. but I am used to those things anyways.
 
Here is where my TMs currently lie in the app in case anyone has thoughts on adjustments:


Right now bench and squats I think are the closest to accurate. Meaning week 1 (5s) are pretty legitimate work.



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Can anyone explain the difference / value proposition in spotto vs paused in a comp bottom position? I plan to incorporate one or both starting next week and I'm not fully sure how one is better than the other aside from that I could very comfortably rest 205 on my chest (lol) for like an hour but holding it in the spotto bottom position would be more work.

Maybe I answered my own question.
 
Dustin07 said:
Can anyone explain the difference / value proposition in spotto vs paused in a comp bottom position? I plan to incorporate one or both starting next week and I'm not fully sure how one is better than the other aside from that I could very comfortably rest 205 on my chest (lol) for like an hour but holding it in the spotto bottom position would be more work.

Maybe I answered my own question.
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Yeah it’s about holding the weight and killing all momentum and then push up. I would go with spottos. Hyde will have all the technical details when he gets here
 
Dustin07 said:
Can anyone explain the difference / value proposition in spotto vs paused in a comp bottom position? I plan to incorporate one or both starting next week and I'm not fully sure how one is better than the other aside from that I could very comfortably rest 205 on my chest (lol) for like an hour but holding it in the spotto bottom position would be more work.

Maybe I answered my own question.
Click to expand...
akboom87 said:
Yeah it’s about holding the weight and killing all momentum and then push up. I would go with spottos. Hyde will have all the technical details when he gets here
Click to expand...
Yep that’s it….with Spotos you’re stopping and controlling the bar just above the chest, and then that pause before you drive it back up. Like Akboom said you’re killing the momentum and having to control the weight with your muscles before pressing up. For me it really helps my control of the bar at the bottom, and increasing that lower to midrange pressing strength. Both have their benefits though. On my heavy joker sets that I’ve done a pause on my chest on the second rep, it helps me to get a feel for that competition bench rep. So what I have done the last two cycles is on the first two weeks after my 5/3/1 bench, I add a couple sets of 5-6 reps of moderately heavy Spotos, and on my third week I do the prescribed one rep weight on my third set of my 5/3/1 bench, and on my joker set I put my TM weight on the bar and go for 2 reps with a pause on the second. So I guess in theory that’s around 90% of my actual max. Ha, it seems to be working pretty good so far. But I know Hyde gave you some good advice on incorporating Spotos in your routine, so I would just stick with that. Honestly I’m not planning on testing my max until the end of the year, just because I’m still progressing pretty good with this tactic.
 
I don't know that it is too much, the RDL's looked a bit intense, but I don't remember your typical working weight for it. However if you did better on your last first week after deload from going heavier, but less overall volume then that works well for you. Just pay attention this time and see if you get the same result. I think in the end as long as you rest up things are going to go pretty well.
 
MrKleen73 said:
I don't know that it is too much, the RDL's looked a bit intense, but I don't remember your typical working weight for it. However if you did better on your last first week after deload from going heavier, but less overall volume then that works well for you. Just pay attention this time and see if you get the same result. I think in the end as long as you rest up things are going to go pretty well.
Click to expand...

I haven't been getting meaningful RDL work in the past 6 months tbh. Once I get through my 6 sets of pulls, then my 5x10 of BBB, I'm pretty spent and anything else I do is typically prehab focused work, maybe back extensions etc. I've had almost no extra time or energy during 531 to really isolate lats either so outside of my pulls, my lat work has been more in the warmup because I do barbell rows, rdls, power cleans, press, and curls every session before I add weight.

gonig back to Dec 4th when I pulled 485 I checked for RDL work. Looks like sets of 5 in the 275/315 range were normal.

Dustin07

Post in thread 'To Infinity.... and Beyond!'

Deads
8 x 135, 225
1 x 325, 375, 415, 455, 485 (PR)
5 x 365
8 x 315

Bb Rows (supinated)
10 x 135, 165
6 x 185
10 x 135

Tbar rows
4 sets

Superset with EZ bar curls
4 x 10 x 70


Notes
Wife's surgery is tomorrow so we are a bit distracted. House has been full of people since Thanksgiving but I wanted to sneak in and see if I could get my brain back into game mode after a few reps.

IntraWO notes:
I cant believe how fast 415 moved.
Holy crap, just hit 455 so fast like butter.

It killed me to not just reach for 500 in that last rep but I knew TAKE THE PR.

That's how good 455 felt.

Once...
  • Like

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Yep that would be much less volume. I would think you would be good to go. Apparently everything sounds heavy to me right now! That and you are so big and stronk! ;)
 
MrKleen73 said:
Yep that would be much less volume. I would think you would be good to go. Apparently everything sounds heavy to me right now! That and you are so big and stronk! ;)
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lol thats funny
my biggest goal right now is to complete cycle 7 week 1 as RX'd without fail.
7 full months of working the same programming is honestly a fair mental grind.

I've been thinking a lot how I can incorporate a fasted day somewhere in my week. unfortunatley the only day that sorta makse sense to me is Saturday, which would obviously be the hardest, unless I trained fasted one day a week. There is always the possibility of just a daily caloric deficit <GASP!>, or cardio <DOUBLE GASP!>

but either way I'm feeling like i"m in a good spot where despite being fatter, I don't feel FAT, I feel fairly well pulled together and like when I decide to commit to a cut it should go pretty well. plus I so rarely hang out over 200lbs these days that I think just cutting 10lbs would be fairly easy (?) and would make me feel good, like a bit of that instant gratification.
 
Dustin07 said:
lol thats funny
my biggest goal right now is to complete cycle 7 week 1 as RX'd without fail.
7 full months of working the same programming is honestly a fair mental grind.

I've been thinking a lot how I can incorporate a fasted day somewhere in my week. unfortunatley the only day that sorta makse sense to me is Saturday, which would obviously be the hardest, unless I trained fasted one day a week. There is always the possibility of just a daily caloric deficit <GASP!>, or cardio <DOUBLE GASP!>

but either way I'm feeling like i"m in a good spot where despite being fatter, I don't feel FAT, I feel fairly well pulled together and like when I decide to commit to a cut it should go pretty well. plus I so rarely hang out over 200lbs these days that I think just cutting 10lbs would be fairly easy (?) and would make me feel good, like a bit of that instant gratification.
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I would not be looking to incorporate fasts or a deficit if you are wanting to push this program further. Unless you are looking at switching gears.
 
akboom87 said:
I would not be looking to incorporate fasts or a deficit if you are wanting to push this program further. Unless you are looking at switching gears.
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I think if done well, he could but it would some wiggle room possibly moving training around on a day to allow for it. He was hitting PR's while losing 10lbs in a month doing ADF, so I think it can be done but would probably come faster without a fasting day.
Dustin07 said:
easy for you to say, your clothes still fit!
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You could always work to maintain through the winter, and gradually get leaner while growing a little bit. It really just depends on the bigger priority right now. The training goals or the mirror goals.
akboom87 said:
It’s hoodie and comfy pants season, embrace it!

Now go eat a Twinkie and a PBJ on sourdough
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Haha, or skip the sour dough and just put the PB on the twinkie!
 
MrKleen73 said:
I think if done well, he could but it would some wiggle room possibly moving training around on a day to allow for it. He was hitting PR's while losing 10lbs in a month doing ADF, so I think it can be done but would probably come faster without a fasting day.

You could always work to maintain through the winter, and gradually get leaner while growing a little bit. It really just depends on the bigger priority right now. The training goals or the mirror goals.

Haha, or skip the sour dough and just put the PB on the twinkie!
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Stuff the Twinkie with some d-bol then peanut butter- anabolic Twinkie 😎
 
akboom87 said:
It’s hoodie and comfy pants season, embrace it!

Now go eat a Twinkie and a PBJ on sourdough
Click to expand...
I'm fat, not menstruating

Kleens right though, done carefully I can lean up a bit and keep the gain train going. It just requires the discipline of a monk. Once I flip that switch it's game on but right now I'm working with more of a dimmer than a straight on off switch lol.
 
You answered your question on Spotos. If you aren’t using your lats to control and hold the weight well, it will be exposed instantly. And it’s harder than just pausing comp bench at the chest, so it builds weakness & reversal power better with less load - but just a bit less though, still plenty heavy to transfer.

You don’t really need to cut, probably just back off the extras slightly. Keep all of the quality nutrition in but show a little restraint on the bread & treats etc. This should keep you performing well without gaining any new weight.
 
Also, on the deloads - if you feel refreshed and solid going into the next wave, that’s basically what matters. So if you feel stronger doing things a certain way AND seeing good readiness/progression in the following cycle, you can feel good about what you’re doing.

Like Kleen said, it’s ultimately an experiment.

Also, if deadlift is truly too light, you can certainly bump TM an extra 10lbs - BUT realize that if you do, everything affects everything (like squats). So if squat is cooking and that 405 squat is a top priority, keeping pulls lighter might support that. While if you aren’t as in a rush for it, then pushing deadlift load a tad more would be more balanced. That’s how I’d make that decision.
 
I agree with all that, appreciate you guys working as a sounding board. Today I got my "cardio" walking 5 miles pushing my golf bags around. On my way home my long lost buddy loaded up my drums that he's had for like a decade. I'm not sure where I'm gonna set them up yet but I'm stoned. 20-30 minutes banging the skins counts as cardio. Especially now at 205lbs


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Segansational said:
For deload, this sounds like too high - I thought deload was supposed to be at like 60-65%?



That sounds delicious right about now!



Either could have been right? Freudian slip??
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Lol too funny. I learned how to grow just cause I wanted to and I think the plants are pretty but I still just don't really like the stuff . I wish I did but it's just not really my thing.

Got the drums setup in that unfinished but almost finished attic / apartment we've been working on the past 7 years. They're about 30 years old but sound great

Back to minor farm work today. Gonna get 6 more fence posts on and leveled, clean and restock chicken fermenters etc, couple random jobs before the Seahawks game tonight. We are finally getting legit rain!

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Dustin07 said:
Lol too funny. I learned how to grow just cause I wanted to and I think the plants are pretty but I still just don't really like the stuff . I wish I did but it's just not really my thing.

Got the drums setup in that unfinished but almost finished attic / apartment we've been working on the past 7 years. They're about 30 years old but sound great

Back to minor farm work today. Gonna get 6 more fence posts on and leveled, clean and restock chicken fermenters etc, couple random jobs before the Seahawks game tonight. We are finally getting legit rain!

View attachment 264042View attachment 264043
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I have no idea how to play drums but looks like a sweet setup!
 
akboom87 said:
I have no idea how to play drums but looks like a sweet setup!
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OMG I feel like a heroin addict getting his first hit after 12 years. Feels amazing. Spent an hour on them today and blew out some blisters

Diet starts "tomorrow" cause wife is making fried green tomatoes @gphagan1 while I play her some of my favorite rock songs on the Bluetooth.


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Hyde said:
You answered your question on Spotos. If you aren’t using your lats to control and hold the weight well, it will be exposed instantly. And it’s harder than just pausing comp bench at the chest, so it builds weakness & reversal power better with less load - but just a bit less though, still plenty heavy to transfer.

You don’t really need to cut, probably just back off the extras slightly. Keep all of the quality nutrition in but show a little restraint on the bread & treats etc. This should keep you performing well without gaining any new weight.
Click to expand...

Segansational said:
For deload, this sounds like too high - I thought deload was supposed to be at like 60-65%?
Click to expand...

I couldn't mutliquote everything over the weekend on the app so had a hard time getting actual responses in, but when I was religiously hitting that low weight 60% volume I had a hard time making it meaningful. With squats, I think I can practice form at 60% and maybe get something but with like bench it just didn't seem like enough and week 1 back to the grind would be my hardest week. Week 2 then, was usually my best week.

Still experimenting... we'll see how this week goes.

@Hyde lets say I incorporate spottos. I'm trying to get a gauge for percentages and rep schemes. if I run 531 and top set is 270, based on current TM at 320 (which seems too high), that puts my 10x5 at 222.5lbs.

I think I can hit everything as RX'd, but it does almost seem like TM on bench is too high while TM on pulls is a bit too low. I will keep riding this train until the wheels come off though. even with that TM, I don't think the 222.5lbs spottos or BBS is too high, that should be fairly easy, but the 270 x 5 is going to prove to be on the top end for sure.
 
Dustin07 said:
I couldn't mutliquote everything over the weekend on the app so had a hard time getting actual responses in, but when I was religiously hitting that low weight 60% volume I had a hard time making it meaningful. With squats, I think I can practice form at 60% and maybe get something but with like bench it just didn't seem like enough and week 1 back to the grind would be my hardest week. Week 2 then, was usually my best week.

Still experimenting... we'll see how this week goes.

@Hyde lets say I incorporate spottos. I'm trying to get a gauge for percentages and rep schemes. if I run 531 and top set is 270, based on current TM at 320 (which seems too high), that puts my 10x5 at 222.5lbs.

I think I can hit everything as RX'd, but it does almost seem like TM on bench is too high while TM on pulls is a bit too low. I will keep riding this train until the wheels come off though. even with that TM, I don't think the 222.5lbs spottos or BBS is too high, that should be fairly easy, but the 270 x 5 is going to prove to be on the top end for sure.
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The thing that both percentages and RPE are trying to do is get weights in your hands that will lead to sufficient stimulus and desired training effect. That’s it.

This is why Jim has talked about manipulating training max values within the system to whatever seems to let guys get the best progress. How some guys have programmed as low as 78% of their contest maxes and seen good continued progress.

“The numbers are an illusion” 😝

But what is real, is am I working hard enough? Am I progressing? We do not put weight on the bar to force our bodies to get stronger - as they get stronger we must put weight on the bar to keep progressing. But that intensity level ultimately is a range of sweetspot that delivers your progress without destroying you.

TLDR: if 222.5 feels like clean, quality work that you can manage and progress slowly over time, it’s great. If it’s running you into the ground (or a joke in how light it is), it’s not going to be helpful for long.
 
Hyde said:
But what is real, is am I working hard enough? Am I progressing? We do not put weight on the bar to force our bodies to get stronger - as they get stronger we must put weight on the bar to keep progressing. But that intensity level ultimately is a range of sweetspot that delivers your progress without destroying you.

TLDR: if 222.5 feels like clean, quality work that you can manage and progress slowly over time, it’s great. If it’s running you into the ground (or a joke in how light it is), it’s not going to be helpful for long.
Click to expand...

Makes sense. BBB on squats = great effort, solid stimulus. BBB on bench has been too low. I've had to mix it up with pauses, CGBP, widegrip etc. this will be a good experimental weight to play with.
 
Bench
10 x 95
5 x 135, 160
3 x 190

5 x 210, 240
5 x 270

BBS
5 x 5 x 225 - spotto
5 x 5 x 225 - paused

CGBP
10 x 185, 135

Notes
Spottos seemed sufficiently hard. Probably could take these even lower like 210 for stimulus and better form. Great chest pump tho.

Unfortunately sorta short / rushed session but got the meat and potatoes in.

Paused was a lot harder after my spottos.

Also had to figure out my grip. Different barbell today so I think all my work was done with a narrower than usual grip until the last 4-5 sets when I figured it out.
 
doesn't look like a lot on paper but its essentially 11-15 work sets depending on how you define work set, and I left in a sweaty mess. I really like the effort put into this session, but next week I think will give me more guidance to as whether or not this was too much.
 
Dustin07 said:
Bench
10 x 95
5 x 135, 160
3 x 190

5 x 210, 240
5 x 270

BBS
5 x 5 x 225 - spotto
5 x 5 x 225 - paused

CGBP
10 x 185, 135

Notes
Spottos seemed sufficiently hard. Probably could take these even lower like 210 for stimulus and better form. Great chest pump tho.

Unfortunately sorta short / rushed session but got the meat and potatoes in.

Paused was a lot harder after my spottos.

Also had to figure out my grip. Different barbell today so I think all my work was done with a narrower than usual grip until the last 4-5 sets when I figured it out.
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That’s some good work though, even though you think you didn’t get that much volume. That 270x5 followed by the 5x5 on Spotos and 5x5 on paused bench is some good strong work for bench. I like Spotos to be heavy enough to stay in that 5 to 8 rep range. It just seems like that stopping the bar above the chest with a pause and then driving the bar back up really force you to engage chest, lats, delts, and tris to drive the bar up, and that seems to not only help you to have stronger bar control, but it helps keep you in that groove with good form. And I bet your pause bench was a lot harder after those Spotos….ha, you got a lot of TUT with that work.😎👍
 
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Dustin07 said:
couple hours passed and chest feels WORKED. Spottos were a good call. Maybe in the past I ran them too light or something, they were damn good today.
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Sounds like the Spottos did the trick! Will have to look into them. I'm also thinking maybe I need to start up BBB next coming off this week's deload.
 
gphagan1 said:
That’s some good work though, even though you think you didn’t get that much volume. That 270x5 followed by the 5x5 on Spotos and 5x5 on paused bench is some good strong work for bench. I like Spotos to be heavy enough to stay in that 5 to 8 rep range. It just seems like that stopping the bar above the chest with a pause and then driving the bar back up really force you to engage chest, lats, delts, and tris to drive the bar up, and that seems to not only help you to have stronger bar control, but it helps keep you in that groove with good form. And I bet your pause bench was a lot harder after those Spotos….ha, you got a lot of TUT with that work.😎👍
Click to expand...

You're not wrong, the pause bench was substantially harder. I was able to complete all reps but I truly felt like I worked yesterday so I'm grateful for that and excited to see how it effects me.

Segansational said:
Sounds like the Spottos did the trick! Will have to look into them. I'm also thinking maybe I need to start up BBB next coming off this week's deload.
Click to expand...

I think in the past I maybe was running them too light, or not enough volume but yesterdays session was great. its been a long time since I could really feel a bench day in the chest/delts the next day. I like the BBB for volume but its crazy how the rx weight is just too light/boring on bench for the most part, but can be crazy rough on squats. either way yesterday I was dripping sweat like crazy from just bench, spottos, pause, and cgbp. I took decent rests inbetween sets to try to maintain good form on the spottos and make sure I didn't pin myself on the pauses. so its not like I was running an EMOTM wod or something.
 
If you questioned possibly going lower on the spotos you might as well do it and see how that goes. Sounds like they were a little more work than you originally expected.
 
MrKleen73 said:
If you questioned possibly going lower on the spotos you might as well do it and see how that goes. Sounds like they were a little more work than you originally expected.
Click to expand...

as of right now I could definitely see like 205-210 being reasonable with this much volume! Big test will be to see how I hit my triples next Monday... my AMRAPs here on out basically all have to be PRs going forward now.
 
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