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SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

Doing a major cut over April-July and toying with the idea of adding a SARM or SARMs in for the final 8 weeks.

I've been using MK677 since November and stocked up like crazy while OL was still on the shelves because I love the stuff (though it's not actually a SARM). I use cardarine/GW pre-cardio on my long days (e.g. only when I'm playing basketball) -- again, another not-SARM.

I've mainly been avoiding anything that can cause HPTA suppression as the wife and I are in the process of trying for a child and I told myself I wouldn't do anything to jeopardize my side of the equation until she was pregnant. I'm considering running Tri-SARM, but not sure if I should just run ostarine, instead. I'm not planning on mega-dosing or anything like that. It's mostly for muscle preservation while cutting, but some recomp action would obviously be appreciated in the mix.

So of you guys who have experience with Tri-SARM specifically or just LGD and OSTA together, what are your thoughts on running that vs. Ostarine at 10-15mg/day solo?
 
MidwestBeast said:
Doing a major cut over April-July and toying with the idea of adding a SARM or SARMs in for the final 8 weeks.

I've been using MK677 since November and stocked up like crazy while OL was still on the shelves because I love the stuff (though it's not actually a SARM). I use cardarine/GW pre-cardio on my long days (e.g. only when I'm playing basketball) -- again, another not-SARM.

I've mainly been avoiding anything that can cause HPTA suppression as the wife and I are in the process of trying for a child and I told myself I wouldn't do anything to jeopardize my side of the equation until she was pregnant. I'm considering running Tri-SARM, but not sure if I should just run ostarine, instead. I'm not planning on mega-dosing or anything like that. It's mostly for muscle preservation while cutting, but some recomp action would obviously be appreciated in the mix.

So of you guys who have experience with Tri-SARM specifically or just LGD and OSTA together, what are your thoughts on running that vs. Ostarine at 10-15mg/day solo?
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best wishes to you and the wife, children make the world a better place.

If you are running for a first time, stick with Ostra single if you can. No need to run LGD and Osta at the same time.
 
smith_69 said:
best wishes to you and the wife, children make the world a better place.

If you are running for a first time, stick with Ostra single if you can. No need to run LGD and Osta at the same time.
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Thanks, brother. Excited for that step to get here for sure (since we both got married later -- I was 28 and she was 27).

I've ran MK-2866 a few years back when it first came out at 15mg for several weeks. Unfortunately, had too many other things going on to really gauge its true effectiveness (though I can say that I PR'd on deadlifts while 13 days into the 500kcal/day hCG diet lol -- so it certainly played a role in helping maintain strength).
 
smith_69 said:
best wishes to you and the wife, children make the world a better place.

If you are running for a first time, stick with Ostra single if you can. No need to run LGD and Osta at the same time.
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Personally would not run osta while trying... Just that possibility of birth defects from being based off of bicalutamid makes me iffy
 
great news man. We started a little late, 35 and 34 have 2 girls 7 and 8. Decided to get all the baby stuff over with at once. If your planning on having 2 my advice, get it over with sooner than later.

nothing like coming home from work and you hear "daddy"- nothing and I mean nothing compares.

guess we need to have a pool and see if its going to be a boy or girl, with wgt etc. that sounds like a good set up for a give away lol

osta should work nice for you
 
BamBam0319 said:
Personally would not run osta while trying... Just that possibility of birth defects from being based off of bicalutamid makes me iffy
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think he mentioned he was going to wait until she was pregnant
 
smith_69 said:
great news man. We started a little late, 35 and 34 have 2 girls 7 and 8. Decided to get all the baby stuff over with at once. If your planning on having 2 my advice, get it over with sooner than later.

nothing like coming home from work and you hear "daddy"- nothing and I mean nothing compares.

guess we need to have a pool and see if its going to be a boy or girl, with wgt etc. that sounds like a good set up for a give away lol

osta should work nice for you
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Damn my parents started really late then ha. Had me at 30/28 (dad/mom), then another at 32/30 and the youngest at 35/33
smith_69 said:
think he mentioned he was going to wait until she was pregnant
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Ahh ok nvm then
 
Nope, I may not have been as clear as I should have -- was looking for something to run prior to conception (e.g. nothing PH/DS/etc. for sure until she's already pregnant to make sure my natural test and LH/FSH don't take a dive). So the mention of MK-2866 is appreciated. Assuming probably best to avoid the LGD for the same reasons, yeah?
 
Hopefully she'll just get pregnant this month and then I don't have to worry about it LOL
 
MidwestBeast said:
Nope, I may not have been as clear as I should have -- was looking for something to run prior to conception (e.g. nothing PH/DS/etc. for sure until she's already pregnant to make sure my natural test and LH/FSH don't take a dive). So the mention of MK-2866 is appreciated. Assuming probably best to avoid the LGD for the same reasons, yeah?
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I wouldn't mess with anything hormonal, even osta, if you are trying to conceive any time in the near future. Why even risk it?
 
MidwestBeast said:
Nope, I may not have been as clear as I should have -- was looking for something to run prior to conception (e.g. nothing PH/DS/etc. for sure until she's already pregnant to make sure my natural test and LH/FSH don't take a dive). So the mention of MK-2866 is appreciated. Assuming probably best to avoid the LGD for the same reasons, yeah?
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Well you'll still see suppression from SARMs so yeah if you're looking for things to run prior to conception I'd probably just stay away from all AAS/PH/DS/SARMs to increase your chances and decrease risks, although countless people have conceived while on cycle, or even those that just never come off.
 
yates84 said:
I wouldn't mess with anything hormonal, even osta, if you are trying to conceive any time in the near future. Why even risk it?
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Definitely wasn't set on anything and already figured that was where the advice would lead, but I wanted to hear the thoughts of others who have had more experience in using them than I have ;)
 
yates84 said:
Lol somehow I always leave my socks on during sex
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Who's got time to think about something as insignificant as socks when you're about to get lucky?
 
BamBam0319 said:
Well you'll still see suppression from SARMs so yeah if you're looking for things to run prior to conception I'd probably just stay away from all AAS/PH/DS/SARMs to increase your chances and decrease risks, although countless people have conceived while on cycle, or even those that just never come off.
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For sure.

And I know a moderate dose of anything doesn't absolutely shut production down, but I'm just not wanting to do anything to reduce my chances (quite the contrary). But cutting so hard right now that the thought of a low dose of a SARM hitting that receptor to help hold onto strength was an appealing little idea ;)
 
BamBam0319 said:
Who's got time to think about something as insignificant as socks when you're about to get lucky?
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Not me I guess! It's only an issue when trying to gain traction on a hardwood floor but I won't go into any further details haha
 
MidwestBeast said:
For sure.

And I know a moderate dose of anything doesn't absolutely shut production down, but I'm just not wanting to do anything to reduce my chances (quite the contrary). But cutting so hard right now that the thought of a low dose of a SARM hitting that receptor to help hold onto strength was an appealing little idea ;)
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For sure, I understand! What if you just went with something natty that would produce a similar result? I don't know a whole lot about it and just started using it myself a few days ago but maybe even laxogenin?
yates84 said:
Not me I guess! It's only an issue when trying to gain traction on a hardwood floor but I won't go into any further details haha
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Lol and that's the point where you take that **** off
 
BamBam0319 said:
For sure, I understand! What if you just went with something natty that would produce a similar result? I don't know a whole lot about it and just started using it myself a few days ago but maybe even laxogenin?
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Hadn't thought about laxo -- I'll be utilizing MyoSynergy Elite and BMP, so I should be pretty well covered -- just know Matt mentioned the SARMs should really be amplified by the new ingredients in MyoE, so was hoping to ramp it up even more.

I'll probably just roll with those and ArA until the little one is in the oven, haha.
 
MidwestBeast said:
Hadn't thought about laxo -- I'll be utilizing MyoSynergy Elite and BMP, so I should be pretty well covered -- just know Matt mentioned the SARMs should really be amplified by the new ingredients in MyoE, so was hoping to ramp it up even more.

I'll probably just roll with those and ArA until the little one is in the oven, haha.
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Good deal! Sounds like MyoSynergy Elite is something I might want to look into. Will it enhance other oral steroids as well?
 
BamBam0319 said:
Good deal! Sounds like MyoSynergy Elite is something I might want to look into. Will it enhance other oral steroids as well?
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It should, yes.

Not sure if anyone has any anecdotal feedback, but IIRC a few guys had run SARMs along with it and liked the effects. I think Tony used a low dose of LGD with it and there was someone on here who I'm remembering posted info after a cycle and had previously used the same SARM just without the MyoE but had improved results (I feel like it's probably in the MyoE page, but all of the stuff runs together and it may be anywhere lol).
 
MidwestBeast said:
It should, yes.

Not sure if anyone has any anecdotal feedback, but IIRC a few guys had run SARMs along with it and liked the effects. I think Tony used a low dose of LGD with it and there was someone on here who I'm remembering posted info after a cycle and had previously used the same SARM just without the MyoE but had improved results (I feel like it's probably in the MyoE page, but all of the stuff runs together and it may be anywhere lol).
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I've run SARMs while running MyoElite and the increase in effects were marginal.
 
yates84 said:
Lol somehow I always leave my socks on during sex
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And I thought I was the only one. Lol.

BamBam0319 said:
Lol and that's the point where you take that **** off
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Not even then, you just have to get the right leg hooked onto something or just grab onto her hair. ;]

BamBam0319 said:
For sure, I understand! What if you just went with something natty that would produce a similar result? I don't know a whole lot about it and just started using it myself a few days ago but maybe even laxogenin?
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I'd have to agree with everybody here. If I was trying to concieve w/ my girl, I'd definitely avoid SARMs. There is just too much we don't know about them and how they affect the various processes in the body.

Agree with Bam on the Laxo. Today is 1 month into my current PCT with Nolva/Clomid/Laxogenin and despite lackluster training because of work and life, I am maintaining strength and fullness quite nicely. Laxo is new to me but at 100mg ED, it seems to be helping quite a bit. I think a natty stack of Laxogenin/Epicatechin would be perfect for you. The other natty stuff you are taking is just a bonus.
 
Toren said:
Today is 1 month into my current PCT with Nolva/Clomid/Laxogenin and despite lackluster training because of work and life, I am maintaining strength and fullness quite nicely. Laxo is new to me but at 100mg ED, it seems to be helping quite a bit.
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Have you done this protocol before and not had good PCT training? You may be at 1300ng/dl right now because of the Clomid/Nolva. How to differentiate between top of range T levels or Laxogenin being the driving force?
 
How long do you guys think one should wait before trying to convince after running a sarm/ph cycle? Specifically osta/epiandro/11 oxo.
 
jmaplewood said:
How long do you guys think one should wait before trying to convince after running a sarm/ph cycle? Specifically osta/epiandro/11 oxo.
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Are you asking how long before you can cycle again? Time on + pct = time off is a good rule to follow.
 
jmaplewood said:
How long do you guys think one should wait before trying to convince after running a sarm/ph cycle? Specifically osta/epiandro/11 oxo.
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Are you asking because you're concerned about the health of your sperm and the possibility of defects? While I know absolutely nothing about the effects of prohormones or anabolics on the genetic health of a sperm, the lifespan of sperm inside the mail reproductive system is potentially 74 days. Based on that, you could assume that after 2 1/2 months your sperm will not have been exposed to any chemical compounds. Would it matter if they were? I have no idea. But why risk it?
 
HardB0iled said:
Are you asking because you're concerned about the health of your sperm and the possibility of defects? While I know absolutely nothing about the effects of prohormones or anabolics on the genetic health of a sperm, the lifespan of sperm inside the mail reproductive system is potentially 74 days. Based on that, you could assume that after 2 1/2 months your sperm will not have been exposed to any chemical compounds. Would it matter if they were? I have no idea. But why risk it?
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Good info thanks man. Looks like I have a few months of practice ahead of me! In no rush anyway, my first just started crawling.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Have you done this protocol before and not had good PCT training? You may be at 1300ng/dl right now because of the Clomid/Nolva. How to differentiate between top of range T levels or Laxogenin being the driving force?
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That's a good question! My last 3 or 4 PCTs, prior to this one, have been with the Clomid/Nolva combo. This is my first go 'round with Laxogenin. I don't usually spend my money on 'natty' anabolics as I would just rather use the harder stuff. I've used a bit more Clomid than normal this PCT (50-50-25-25 vs. 50-25-12.5) but I've also used less Nolva so far (0-10-10-10). My PCT will continue sans Clomid for 2-3 more weeks. The odd dosing to start was a bit of an experiment for me.

What I will say about this PCT is that I have not seemed to recover as quickly as I did in the past. I definitely felt the shutdown for the first 2-3 weeks of my PCT, while in the past everything always bounced back very quickly. All of the physical signs of recovery were present but they seemed muted and lessened to start. This delayed response could be from a number of things; I do respond better to Nolva than Clomid, I ran a long multi-compound cycle and have run a few 12+ week cycles in a row, and lastly, I incorporated Trest into this cycle for the first time. I'm not sure where my T levels are at right now but I do feel good. After an extended break, I will get the necessary tests to check my overall health before I choose to cycle again.

Despite the decrease in training (I would guess 50% unfortunately), and the seemingly delayed recovery during PCT, I'm quite happy with my fullness and strength overall. The only addition to this PCT has been TD Laxo. The other things I noticed immediately were headaches for the first few days, which I found out after the fact, was known to be caused by laxo. I also noticed an improvement in my joints within the first 2 weeks, although a lghter training schedule may be a part of this added benefit. Lastly, I noticed a leaning out in the midsection within the first week or so; It actually surprised me a little bit. I'd like to believe it was from the reported cortisol lowering effects of laxo, but I can't ultimately make any scientific claims. For me, the positive trends mean that I will try a Laxo product again in my next PCT. Hopefully I see the same positive results.

I would be remissed if I didn't also mention that this is my first PCT with MK-677. I started it shortly after my last PCT. I've been on MK since October and while I do notice that it is easier to maintain my weight, I haven't noticed any physical changes (that I would attribute to MK-677) in months. What I did notice on MK is that my joints were worse, and that seems to contrast with how good they feel since being on Laxo. The other point that seems worth noting is that I did not notice any increased mid-section leaning that I would attribute to MK-677, certainly not in the last few months anyway. The contrast is seeing a more apparent 6-pack during the early stages of this PCT, despite a lowered training intensity and no cardio during that time period. That is not normal for me in the early stages of any PCT that I can remember.

My next PCT will be without MK-677 but will combine Clomid/Nolva/Laxo again. I think that might ultimately help me to get a better gauge on what effects Laxo imparted on this PCT.
 
GreenMachineX said:
So it must've been the mk-677 because it's been 2 days and the gut distention/pain is just about gone, as well as all the beneficial effects from mk. My bad knee hurts again, the all day pump is gone, and the enhanced vascularity is gone. I'm still running ostarine, and bumping my dose from 25mg to 30mg. Ordered 2 bottles of Super 1-Elite, and will probably bridge into that.

I'm not sure what to do about the knee pain (leftover from ACL Reconstruction), but I'll have to figure something out. I don't think I can deadlift with it feeling like this.
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Have you tried an IGF/deer velvet product? I know it cops a lot of flack, but I run Pure Factors every now & again when something flares up. It does seem to settle my aches & pains down, but it is expensive. I haven't tried the cheap ebay products to compare, have been slowly working my way through the PF range to gauge efficacy vs dosage.
 
cheeky1 said:
Have you tried an IGF/deer velvet product? I know it cops a lot of flack, but I run Pure Factors every now & again when something flares up. It does seem to settle my aches & pains down, but it is expensive. I haven't tried the cheap ebay products to compare, have been slowly working my way through the PF range to gauge efficacy vs dosage.
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i did several years ago- I used a brand that had a concentrate of 43:1 before extraction- it wasnt cheap but I will say that i noticed a difference. it was also in the form of a tincture. I used it for about 3 months and during the end of the 3rd month, that was when the results kind of slacked off. But it worked for me. havent used it since
 
Hello, what does AI stands for???
Im planing on taking Ostarine. For 8 Weeks from EPG Ostalean 25mg per day. Is it save?

Taking it for 8 weeks as lean bulk / gain muscle during cut and after 2-3 months taking lgd for bulk?
i heard with ostarine u can Keep /maintain ur muscles after.. is same for lgd?taking it and then going natty again ^^
 
AI stands for aromatase inhibitor. That is a simple terminology that you should know. That is easy research. My opinion, if you do not know what that is, we need to do more study and research prior to running a cycle.
 
thanks for the quick reply mate.

Yes for Ostarine ist not necessary.

Do u have exp. with Ostarine? Never took something before .. oastrine for 8 Weeks 25mg with EPG Ostalean is fine? Im cutting right now around 10% BF. 2 Months left then i want to BULK. Should i take OStalean now or after 2 weeks during bulk?

I take DAA as a PCT
 
Chuco said:
thanks for the quick reply mate.

Yes for Ostarine ist not necessary.

Do u have exp. with Ostarine? Never took something before .. oastrine for 8 Weeks 25mg with EPG Ostalean is fine? Im cutting right now around 10% BF. 2 Months left then i want to BULK. Should i take OStalean now or after 2 weeks during bulk?

I take DAA as a PCT
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Go back to page 1 of this thread and read the entire thing... then edit your last post.
 
HardB0iled said:
Go back to page 1 of this thread and read the entire thing... then edit your last post.
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LGD has proven itself as a good bulking agent, where Ostarine is better used in a cutting cycle


you mean this one right? So i will use it now for 8 Weeks with Alphamine together!
So with Osta i can build up muscle and get lean at the same time???
 
Chuco said:
LGD has proven itself as a good bulking agent, where Ostarine is better used in a cutting cycle


you mean this one right? So i will use it now for 8 Weeks with Alphamine together!
So with Osta i can build up muscle and get lean at the same time???
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Lol. I meant read the entire thread, not just page 1.
 
Chuco said:
but even in a calories deficit i could gain some muscles with ostarine?
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You will help you keep the muscle you already have in a deficit, muscle gains will be minimal to non existent. You want to gain muscle then bulk!
 
HardB0iled said:
Just started another Lgd/mk-677/trest run yesterday! I love the smell of tdTrest in the morning. Smells like... Victory.
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You like LGD a lot then? What benefits do you personally see from it? I have a bottle but have no plans for what or when I'll actually use it for, or what I'll stack it with.
 
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