SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

chaossentry

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Which website is making the offer? Also,I am currently overweight but have been steadily but slowly dropping weight and fat,while maintaining decent gains. can anyone recommend a natural stack an unnatural stack to maximize muscle growth?

mk-677 already included.
 
Rocket3015

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Which website is making the offer? Also,I am currently overweight but have been steadily but slowly dropping weight and fat,while maintaining decent gains. can anyone recommend a natural stack an unnatural stack to maximize muscle growth?

mk-677 already included.
Just click on the link !!
 
Demgainz

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Can anyone here chime in on when they began to feel any type of effects or "on" feeling from LGD? I am currently 13 days in at 8mgs on Olympus labs LGD per day and have still yet to feel anything. I am trying to be patient but considering I felt next to nothing on 25mgs of ostarine from Olympus labs, I am growing a little impatient.
 
sanmarino

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Can anyone here chime in on when they began to feel any type of effects or "on" feeling from LGD? I am currently 13 days in at 8mgs on Olympus labs LGD per day and have still yet to feel anything. I am trying to be patient but considering I felt next to nothing on 25mgs of ostarine from Olympus labs, I am growing a little impatient.
Androgenic effects are too low for a real "on"-feeling.
You should get the benefits from LGD soon. I got approx. at the end of the second week all the desired effects. Regeneration effects came earlier, the increase in strenght within the end of the second week of intake.

Just keep it going :)
 
sanmarino

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Can anyone here chime in on when they began to feel any type of effects or "on" feeling from LGD? I am currently 13 days in at 8mgs on Olympus labs LGD per day and have still yet to feel anything. I am trying to be patient but considering I felt next to nothing on 25mgs of ostarine from Olympus labs, I am growing a little impatient.
Androgenic effects are too low for a real "on"-feeling.
You should get the benefits from LGD soon. I got approx. at the end of the second week all the desired effects. Regeneration effects came earlier, the increase in strenght within the end of the second week of intake.

Just keep it going :)
 
bobi593

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SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

Can anyone here chime in on when they began to feel any type of effects or "on" feeling from LGD? I am currently 13 days in at 8mgs on Olympus labs LGD per day and have still yet to feel anything. I am trying to be patient but considering I felt next to nothing on 25mgs of ostarine from Olympus labs, I am growing a little impatient.
close to nothing on 25 mg OL ostarine? lol that's weird I run their osta twice each time in the end of week one 10 mg I had already nice energy boost few weeks after 20-25mg I could almost fly....
 
bobi593

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Androgenic effects are too low for a real "on"-feeling.
You should get the benefits from LGD soon. I got approx. at the end of the second week all the desired effects. Regeneration effects came earlier, the increase in strenght within the end of the second week of intake.

Just keep it going :)
sanmarino what is the highest ( effective not waste ) top end for mk 677 in your opinion ? recently I increase mk from 20 to 30 mg and I notice more benefits ( it's long run not short cycle ) is there any point to go higher?
 
NoAddedHmones

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Can anyone here chime in on when they began to feel any type of effects or "on" feeling from LGD? I am currently 13 days in at 8mgs on Olympus labs LGD per day and have still yet to feel anything. I am trying to be patient but considering I felt next to nothing on 25mgs of ostarine from Olympus labs, I am growing a little impatient.
Run it at 16, won't get much out of 8
 
Demgainz

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close to nothing on 25 mg OL ostarine? lol that's weird I run their osta twice each time in the end of week one 10 mg I had already nice energy boost few weeks after 20-25mg I could almost fly....
No real energy boost, no strength gains, but I felt good healing effects from previous nagging injuries. I didn't really expect strength gains because I was running it on a cut/recomp. Slight body composition changes but I attribute that to my diet. Been doing this for some time now.
 
Demgainz

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So if you are serious I would essentially need 4 bottles for a decent run?
 
Demgainz

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Because it seemed like a lot at first but then soon realized you were a rep so I would assume you know what you are talking about. The test base is covered. I am on TRT with 100mgs a week.
 
NoAddedHmones

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SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

Because it seemed like a lot at first but then soon realized you were a rep so I would assume you know what you are talking about. The test base is covered. I am on TRT with 100mgs a week.
Are thats good then, yeah I have researched this compound on my rat quite a few times. I deffinitely wouldnt even bother under 12, particularly if it has some decent mass.
 
BamBam0319

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Are thats good then, yeah I have researched this compound on my rat quite a few times. I deffinitely wouldnt even bother under 12, particularly if it has some decent mass.
What's the highest dose you've researched with your rat?
 
NoAddedHmones

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How many weeks on ?
Last three weeks of cycle, definitely diminishing returns after 20mg. In saying that i did 24mg for like 8 weeks straight and it was awesome. Zero sides except a pretty battered lipid profile (based on my bloods 10 weeks post cycle)
 
bobi593

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Last three weeks of cycle, definitely diminishing returns after 20mg. In saying that i did 24mg for like 8 weeks straight and it was awesome. Zero sides except a pretty battered lipid profile (based on my bloods 10 weeks post cycle)
Test base?
 
Demgainz

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Last three weeks of cycle, definitely diminishing returns after 20mg. In saying that i did 24mg for like 8 weeks straight and it was awesome. Zero sides except a pretty battered lipid profile (based on my bloods 10 weeks post cycle)
How long did it take for your lipids to return to baseline?
 
NoAddedHmones

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Test base?
Sup3r-Dhea and some epiandro

How long did it take for your lipids to return to baseline?
Well, everything was in range overall except my LDL which was still a few points too high. Previous bloods had a much lower LDL figure so I can only speculate as to how trashed it was immediately post cycle, but I imagine pretty bad.
 
sanmarino

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sanmarino what is the highest ( effective not waste ) top end for mk 677 in your opinion ? recently I increase mk from 20 to 30 mg and I notice more benefits ( it's long run not short cycle ) is there any point to go higher?
This is a very legitimate question. While in the studies ranges from 5-25mg/ed were tested, there were some thoughts PRIOR the studies, to test the MK-677 at 100, 200 and 1000mg/ed as far as I know. But the "low" dosages were very potent, so there should no further increase in dosage happen for further studies.

Acutally, I'm using 12.5mg/ed for a longer period of time, there is actual no end date and I'm quite confident with the results. No real need to increase the dosage.

Made an experiment with 50mg/ed, too. I'm not sure anymore if I made a post regarding this experimental week. I used raw power. I think, home-brew discussion are not allowed here, so there will be no further statement how the raw was used.
Anyway, even at 20mg/ed the MK-677 was stronger than every product I tested (no advertising or bashing, they did their work, too). At 50mg/ed the hunger was so intense, I had to cook something at 2 a.m. Unfortunately, the blood sugar level was not tested.

To answer your question: I honestly don't know how the utility curve looks like. So we can't make a real useful statement. You won't make much wrong if you follow the dosages which were used in the studies. Main advantage is the correlation between the observed results in effects and side effects of the participants with your own (ab)usage of MK-677.

From my personal point of view: 10mg/ed will give a nice benefit. Sleep and regeneration speed are two components which are directly measurable without any blood panels which is linked with time and financial aspects. Sleep and regeneration speed increased in my case at 25mg/ed, but everything over this dosage didn't give me a value added - regarding these two factors.
But: we are not aiming for the mentioned two components, but also for GH and IGF-1 which is probably THE main reason for MK-677. As far as observed: higher dosage leads to higher outputs.
 
vascopro

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This is a very legitimate question. While in the studies ranges from 5-25mg/ed were tested, there were some thoughts PRIOR the studies, to test the MK-677 at 100, 200 and 1000mg/ed as far as I know. But the "low" dosages were very potent, so there should no further increase in dosage happen for further studies.

Acutally, I'm using 12.5mg/ed for a longer period of time, there is actual no end date and I'm quite confident with the results. No real need to increase the dosage.

Made an experiment with 50mg/ed, too. I'm not sure anymore if I made a post regarding this experimental week. I used raw power. I think, home-brew discussion are not allowed here, so there will be no further statement how the raw was used.
Anyway, even at 20mg/ed the MK-677 was stronger than every product I tested (no advertising or bashing, they did their work, too). At 50mg/ed the hunger was so intense, I had to cook something at 2 a.m. Unfortunately, the blood sugar level was not tested.

To answer your question: I honestly don't know how the utility curve looks like. So we can't make a real useful statement. You won't make much wrong if you follow the dosages which were used in the studies. Main advantage is the correlation between the observed results in effects and side effects of the participants with your own (ab)usage of MK-677.

From my personal point of view: 10mg/ed will give a nice benefit. Sleep and regeneration speed are two components which are directly measurable without any blood panels which is linked with time and financial aspects. Sleep and regeneration speed increased in my case at 25mg/ed, but everything over this dosage didn't give me a value added - regarding these two factors.
But: we are not aiming for the mentioned two components, but also for GH and IGF-1 which is probably THE main reason for MK-677. As far as observed: higher dosage leads to higher outputs.
So... What differences did you see from 10 VS 20mg?

I on my 5 month @20mg...

Never increased to 30 because experienced users didn't watch much...

I'm doing a year+ and my question is 10mg will be enough or really better @20mg?

What are your thoughts sanmarino? Thanks
 
vascopro

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I haven't received any message from you yates84... Otherwise I wouldn't be posting it here again...

Just checked again right now and I have nothing in my inbox...

The last message I have from you is from July/August 2016...

Can you please be kind to re-send it to me?

Thank you very much for your time and help.
yates84
 
bobi593

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unfortunately I have absolutely zero deep sleep benefits from mk, for me this stuff works totally opposite I take mk first in the morning and I have long energy boost through the day as far igf1 and gh levels I posted my blood work on page 245 . The reason why I'm thinking to increase mk from 30/40 is because when I jump from 20-30 te recovery/muscle pump etc jump up as well hmmm I guess I will be have to try this dose on myself
 
u_e_s_i

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I had some atrophy whilst on-cycle and then due to not being able to source hcg*or SERMS I was on nothing for a week.
For the past week I've been taking:

HCG - 500*iu EOD
Clomid - 100 mg ED - split the dose ½ in the AM, ½ in the PM (first 30 days)
Nolvadex - 20 mg ED – split the dose ½ in the AM, ½ in the PM (entire 45 days)

but now I'm being given two vastly different pieces of advice.
1. to stop taking HCG as it shouldn't be taken during PCT with SERMS*due to the fact that it might counteract the SERM
2. to step up the HCG to 2000iu EOD

Could you guys weigh in please
 
u_e_s_i

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Option A is the winner but with a small change. Do 500 IU HCG EOD for 3 weeks. (You will feel better right away and it will get the testes producing again). You will need an AI with this - .5 Alex E3D. Then, the day after your last shot run clomid but you do not need anywhere near that much. 25mg EOD or 12.5 ED is more than enough to stimulate the pituitary. Going higher only increases side effects. Trust me - my T-levels were under 100 after a Sarm cycle and a month at 12.5 mg clomid had me at over 900. This is backed by research as well as conformation with a leading TRT clinic. Don't go high on Serms. Start pinning that HCG today bro.
I think I may have misundestood your reply and I've been taking HCG, and an OTC PCT with clomid. Should I stop taking the clomid and start it again after three weeks on HCG by itself? When should I be taking the OCT PCT?
 
u_e_s_i

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I found these posts on another forum (msg for details), and would love to hear it debated. I hope this'll help people


needtogetaas said:
30-Jan-2009 08:56 PM
Tamoxifen Blocks HCG Induced Leydig Cell Desensitization
Tamoxifen Blocks HCG Induced Leydig Cell Desensitization
HCG induced testicular desensitization seems to be a hot topic. There are a number of studies showing that concomitant use of Nolvadex ameliorates this. The first abstract suggests that HCG at least partially blocks the conversion of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone (17 OHP), a testosterone precursor, to testosterone. This effect is suppressed by Nolvadex.

The second abstract seems to indicate that estrogen may not be the only culprit, since Nolvadex plus HCG does not increase T levels any more than HCG alone, even though the combination reduces desensitization.

Since we are trying to avoid this desensitization so when we quit the HCG our testes respond to our endogenous LH, it makes sense to always use nolvadex with HCG to at least help the problem, if not solve it completely.


J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1980 Nov;51(5):1026-9

Tamoxifen suppresses gonadotropin-induced 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone accumulation in normal men.

Smals AG, Pieters GF, Drayer JI, Boers GH, Benraad TJ, Kloppenborg PW.

Intramuscular administration of 1500 IU hCG daily for 3 days induced a transient accumulation of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone (17 OHP) relative to testosterone (T) in normal men, reaching its maximum 24 h after the first injection (17 OHP to T ratio, 1.7 +/- 0.3 times baseline; P < 0.01). Simultaneous administration of hCG and the estrogen antagonist tamoxifen (20 mg twice daily) almost completely abolished the hCG-induced steroidogenic block localized between 17 OHP and T (17 OHP to T ratio at 24 h, 1.1 +/- 0.1 times baseline; P < 0.01 vs. hCG alone). These data indirectly suggest that, in man, the hCG-induced steroidogenic lesion might be mediated through its estrogen-stimulating effect.



Andrologia 1991 Mar-Apr;23(2):109-14

Effect of an antiestrogen on the testicular response to acute and chronic administration of hCG in normal and hypogonadotropic hypogonadic men: tamoxifen and testicular response to hCG.

Levalle OA, Suescun MO, Fiszlejder L, Aszpis S, Charreau E, Guitelman A, Calandra R.

Division Endocrinologia, Hospital Carlos Durand, Instituto de Biologia y Medicina Experimental, Buenos Aires, Argentina.

The effect of the antiestrogen tamoxifen (Tx) on the acute and chronic hCG administration was evaluated in patients with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (HH) and in normal men. An hCG test (5000 IU hCG) was performed before, after two months of hCG administration (2000 IU hCG three times weekly) and after two months of hCG + Tx (2000 IU hCG three times weekly plus 20 mg/day of tamoxifen). Blood samples were obtained before and following 24 and 72 h of every test to determine T, E, 17OHP and SHBG. T increased only in HH with both treatments (X +/- SEM: Basal: 97.9 +/- 19.7; hCG: 237.7 +/- 43.2; hCG +/- Tx: 204.7 +/- 10.7 ng/100 ml). 17OHP rose with hCG alone, but not with hCG + Tx in both groups. E, SHBG and 17OHP/T ratio did not change after treatments. hCG tests: E increased 24 h following hCG administration in every test. The ratio 17OHP/T rose at 24 h in the first and second test but in the third test it did not change. These results support the role of E in the acute hCG-induced Leydig cell desensitization. However, the association of Tx does not improve T serum levels, suggesting that E might not be the unique factor involved in the mechanisms for testicular desensitization.






needtogetaas said:
30-Jan-2009 10:25 PM
Re: Tamoxifen Blocks HCG Induced Leydig Cell Desensitization
Quote Quote posted by the.gladiator1987 View Post
Im confused, you should or should not take nolva with HCG?
I say no.. Yes there may be some studies that show Tamoxifen Blocks HCG Induced Leydig Cell Desensitization, but who gives a ****.. Tamoxifen also lowers igf. It also causes estro rebound too.


If hcg is used right you should not have to worry about Desensitization.


Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) is a peptide hormone that mimics the action of luteinizing hormone (LH). LH is the hormone that stimulates the testes to produce testosterone. (1) More specifically LH is the primary signal sent from the pituitary to the testes, which stimulates the leydig cells within the testes to produce testosterone.

When steroids are administered, LH levels rapidly decline. The absence of an LH signal from the pituitary causes the testes to stop producing testosterone, which causes rapid onset of testicular degeneration. The testicular degeneration begins with a reduction of leydig cell volume, and is then followed by rapid reductions in intra-testicular testosterone (ITT), peroxisomes, and Insulin-like factor 3 (INSL3) – All important bio-markers and factors for proper testicular function and testosterone production. (2-6,19) However, this degeneration can be prevented by a small maintenance dose of hCG ran throughout the cycle. Unfortunately, most steroid users have been engrained to believe that hCG should be used after a cycle, during PCT. Upon reviewing the science and basic endocrinology you will see that a faster and more complete recovery is possible if hCG is ran during a cycle.

Firstly, we must understand the clinical history of hCG to understand its purpose and its most efficient application. Many popular “steroid profiles” advocate using hCG at a dose of 2500-5000iu once or twice a week. These were the kind of dosages used in the historical (1960’s) hCG studies for hypogonadal men who had reduced testicular sensitivity due to prolonged LH deficiency. (21,22) A prolonged LH deficiency causes the testes to desensitize, requiring a higher hCG dose for ample stimulation. In men with normal LH levels and normal testicular sensitivity, the maximum increase of testosterone is seen from a dose of only 250iu, with minimal increases obtained from 500iu or even 5000iu. (2,11) (It appears the testes maximum secretion of testosterone is about 140% above their normal capacity.) (12-18) If you have allowed your testes to desensitize over the length of a typical steroid cycle, (8-16 weeks) then you would require a higher dose to elicit a response in an attempt to restore normal testicular size and function – but there is cost to this, and a high probability that you won’t regain full testicular function.

One term that is critical to understand is testosterone secretion capacity which is synonymous to testicular sensitivity. This is the amount of testosterone your testes can produce from any given LH or hCG stimulation. Therefore, if you have reduced testosterone secretion capacity (reduced testicular sensitivity), it will take more LH or hCG stimulation to produce the same result as if you had normal testosterone secretion capacity. If you reduce your testosterone secretion capacity too much, then no amount of LH or hCG stimulation will trigger normal testosterone production – and this leads to permanently reduced testosterone production.

To get an idea of how quickly you can reduce your testosterone secretion capacity from your average steroid cycle, consider this: LH levels are rapidly decreased by the 2nd day of steroid administration. (2,9,10) By shutting down the LH signal and allowing the testis to be non-functional over a 12-16 week period, leydig cell volume decreases 90%, ITT decreases 94%, INSL3 decreases 95%, while the capacity to secrete testosterone decreases as much as 98%. (2-6)

Note: visually analyzing testes size is a poor method of judging your actual testicular function, since testicular size is not directly related to the ability to secrete testosterone. (4) This is because the leydig cells, which are the primary sites of testosterone secretion, only make up about 10% of the total testicular volume. Therefore, when the testes may only appear 5-10% smaller, the testes ability to secrete testosterone upon LH or hCG stimulation can actually be significantly reduced to 98% of their normal production. (3-5) The point here is to not judge testosterone secretion capacity by testicular size.

The decreased testosterone secretion capacity caused by steroid use was well demonstrated in a study on power athletes who used steroids for 16 weeks, and were then administered 4500iu hCG post cycle. It was found that the steroid users were about 20 times less responsive to hCG, when compared to normal men who did not use steroids. (8) In other words, their testosterone secretion capacity was dramatically reduced because they did not receive an LH signal for 16 weeks. The testes essentially became desensitized and crippled. Case studies with steroid using patients show that aggressive long-term treatment with hCG at dosages as high as 10,000iu E3D for 12 weeks were unable to return full testicular size. (7) Another study with men using low dose steroids for 6 weeks showed unsuccessful return of Insulin-like factor-3 (INSL3) concentration in the testes upon 5000iu/wk of HCG treatment for 12 weeks (6) (INSL3 is an important biomarker for testosterone production potential and sperm production. 20)

These studies show that postponing hCG usage until the end of a steroid cycle increases your need for a higher dose of hCG, and decreases your odds of a full recovery. As a consequence to using a higher dose of hCG at the end of a cycle, estrogen will be increased disproportionately to testosterone, which then causes further HPTA suppression (from high estrogen) while increasing the risk of gyno. (11) For example, high doses of hCG have been found to raise estradiol up to 165%, while only raising testosterone 140%. (11) Higher doses of hCG are also known to reduce LH receptor concentration and degrade the enzymes responsible for testosterone synthesis within the testes (12,13,19 ) -- the last thing someone wants during recovery. While these negative effects of hCG can be partly mitigated by the use of a SERM such as tamoxifen, it will create further problems associated with using a toxic SERM (covered in another article).

In light of the above evidence, it becomes obvious that we must take preventative measures to avoid this testicular degeneration. We must protect our testicular sensitivity. Besides, with hCG being so readily available, and such a painless shot, it makes you wonder why anyone wouldn’t use it on cycle.

Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu HCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function and ITT levels, without causing desensitization typically associated with higher doses of hCG. (2) It is important that low-dose hCG is started before testicular sensitivity is reduced, which appears to rapidly manifest within the first 2-3 weeks of steroid use. Also, it’s important to discontinue the hCG before you start PCT so your leydig cells are given a chance to re-sensitize to your body’s own LH production. (To help further enhance testicular sensitivity, the dietary supplement Toco-8 may be used)

A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a twice a week shot of 200iu hCG, or possibly a once a week shot of 500iu. However, it is most desirable to adhere to a lower more frequent dose of hCG to mimic the body’s natural LH release and minimize estrogen conversion. If you are starting hCG late in the cycle, one could calculate a rough estimate for their required hCG ‘kick starting’ dosage by multiplying 40iu x days of LH absence, since the testes will be desensitized, thus requiring a higher dose. (ie. 40iu x 60 days = 2400iu HCG dose)

Note: If following the on cycle hCG protocol, hCG should NOT be used for PCT.

Recap –

For preservation of testicular sensitivity, use 100iu hCG ED starting 7 days after your first AAS dose. At the end of the cycle, drop the hCG two weeks before the AAS clear the system. For example, you would drop hCG about the same time as your last Testosterone Enanthate shot. Or, if you are ending the cycle with orals, you would drop the hCG about 10 days before your last oral dose. This will allow for a sudden and even clearance in hormone levels, while initiating LH and FSH production from the pituitary, to begin stimulating your testes to produce testosterone. Remember, recovery doesn’t begin until you are off hCG since your body will not release its own LH until the hCG has cleared the system.

In conclusion, we have learned that utilizing hCG during a steroid cycle will significantly prevent testicular degeneration. This helps create a seamless transition from “on cycle” to “off cycle” thus avoiding the post cycle crash.








Unit 2005 said:
31-Jan-2009 07:34 AM
Re: Tamoxifen Blocks HCG Induced Leydig Cell Desensitization
From 's HCG profile:-

HCG CYCLES
As regards HCG´s use of Post-Cycle-Therapy (PCT), smaller and more frequent doses after a cycle of AAS would give the best results with the least amount of side effects. A dose of 250iu to 500iu everyday (ed) for 2 to 3 weeks is plenty and should very little from person to person (3). The Physicians Desk Reference recommends 500iu/day, as did the late, great, Dan Duchaine. The smaller doses are sufficient enough to begin reversal of testicular atrophy and used in conjunction with nolvade, will help the already present problem of recovery without raising the levels of estrogen to high and increasing the risk of gynecomastia in the user. Lower doses of 250iu to 500iu also avoid the further risk of down regulating LH receptors in the testes. The old saying more is better definitely does not apply to the use of HCG. You don´t want to finish PCT after using too much HCG only to find out your back at the beginning again. Your best bet is to start at 250iu or 500iu ed for 5 or 6 days, and if you don´t notice anything happening (nuts dropping and getting bigger) up the dose slightly. Small doses like 500iu two days a week isn´t going to cut it like some people think. The only thing small doses of HCG ay be useful (sublingually) for is reducing symptoms of benign prostatic hyperplasia (7). Yeah, that´s right, you can probably reduce some symptoms of an enlarged prostate with the use of small doses of HCG.

As stated above the cycles of HCG should be in the 2 to 3 week range with a least one month off in between, you could stretch your cycle out to four weeks without any major concern if you are using lower doses. One should however take care when using HCG as prolonged use could repress the body´s natural production of gonadotropins permanently, but this is mostly just pure speculation as it does not have yet to be reported nor has there been a case of an overdose. To be on the safe side shorter cycles of HCG seem to be that of the norm. Most users cycle HCG near the end of a steroid cycle, you should start your HCG therapy on the last week of your cycle. For best results you should also run nolva while you run HCG as taking HCG by itself will do little to nothing and gyno even though rare may also flair up. Once the HCG cycle is finished you continue with your usual clomid or nolvadex (preferably the latter) for pct as it is more effective when used in conjunction HCG for pct. With an AAS cycle of 6 to 10 weeks HCG may not be necessary unless extreme doses of AAS were used or there is an existing problem of testicular atrophy or you are running a heavy oral only cycle. AAS cycles of 12 or more weeks should have HCG as a part of post cycle plan.

HCG SIDE EFFECTS
Since HCG is used to stimulate testosterone production, side effects can be the same as those associated with AAS, although gyno may be more common. Possible side effects of HCG use are water and sodium retention after higher doses are used. This is usually a result of higher androgen production. It may cause gyno (again if doses are too high). Any athletes worried about failing urine test because of low levels of epitestosterone may find that using a dose of 500iu of HCG will increase epitestosterone levels. However the problem with HCG is that it is also banned by the IOC and can also be detected in a urine test, the half life of HCG is approximately 4 to 5 days. Another possible downside to HCG is that it to can be suppressive to natural testosterone because it takes the place of LH. Since LH is manufactured in the pituitary because of the response of GnRH (gonadotropin releasing hormone) which in turn is secreted by the hypothalamus. Because the HCG mimics LH and is being supplied exogenously the hypothalamus will be given a signal to still stop producing GnRH, so no natural LH will be produced (5). This is why it should always be used with a compound such as nolvadex. So although HCG is essential after long or heavy cycles, it should not be used without an ancillary such as (specifically) nolva. Also HCG therapy should be discontinued at least 2 weeks prior to stopping the use of nolva, or it may suppress natural testosterone itself (5). This should not be a problem if you are running it towards the end of your cycle of AAS and before pct.


I agree with this 100% i have always run nolva alongside HCG post cycle and would never EVER run a cycle without either drug ready for PCT.
Last edited by Unit 2005; 31-Jan-2009 at 07:38 AM. Reason:Made the wrong part bold first time!
 
bobi593

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I found these posts on another forum (msg for details), and would love to hear it debated. I hope this'll help people
Any reason why you put Post Cycle Therapy topic to Sarms section ?
 

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I'm sorry that this is out of the blue...but does anyone know a legitimate and reliable place to buy sarms? I would really appreciate any help!!
 
u_e_s_i

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LGD and RAD require a PCT. If this is inappropriate for this section please move it
 

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Can you give me a honest answer: have you ever done blood panels before and mid cycle?
Sir, thanks for all your time here at the forum...I got a couple of questions, hope you can help me:

- For Osta/lgd should i use support supps? lets say for an 8 week cycle at 10-15mg?
- A year ago I opened an osta bottle, which after opened I put in the fridge, will it still work?


thanks!
 
RANS0M

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SARM's, MK, &amp; GW : A User's Guide

Sir, thanks for all your time here at the forum...I got a couple of questions, hope you can help me:

- For Osta/lgd should i use support supps? lets say for an 8 week cycle at 10-15mg?
- A year ago I opened an osta bottle, which after opened I put in the fridge, will it still work?


thanks!
Yes for support supps. LGD start with 5mg's and could work up to 15mg's. Pay attention to side effects and etc. 15 may be too much, 10 Mg's could be your sweet spot.

I'm sure that Osta is just fine
 
YamahaC76

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Hey guys, asking a few questions about different compounds today, but MK-2866 seems to be the most he said/she said SARM I have ever seen. I ran it for 25mg a day for 1 month, and when I got my blood drawn mid cycle my Test Serum was at 300, Free Test 98.8, Estrogen at 65.6 and low prolactin. I have no pre cycle bloods to compare to sadly.

I'm stuck with so much of this stuff, and it did wonders. It basically propelled me from post physical therapy, to big boy workouts and I'm back at it again. However, the acne and (maybe suppressive) sides were hard to manage as I was blindsided by this supposed miracle drug that is **-No Side Effects-** which was BS.

I listened to Dylan Gemelli, and don't even get me started on him, or anybody on that forum now. He has his own army of people that just attack you for not buying arms from them. Want proof. Ill literally bet 100$ to go sign up and say you got sides from Ostarine, you'll feel persecuted within the hour.

Anyway, I ran it at 25mg every day in the morning orally. When I started getting nipple sensitivity I stopped and got me an anti E and that resolved literally overnight, and didn't return.

Basically I just want to know, if I can run this stuff safely again and reap the benefits while minimizing my side potential.
 
pyrobatt

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I had some atrophy whilst on-cycle and then due to not being able to source hcg*or SERMS I was on nothing for a week.
For the past week I've been taking:

HCG - 500*iu EOD
Clomid - 100 mg ED - split the dose ½ in the AM, ½ in the PM (first 30 days)
Nolvadex - 20 mg ED – split the dose ½ in the AM, ½ in the PM (entire 45 days)

but now I'm being given two vastly different pieces of advice.
1. to stop taking HCG as it shouldn't be taken during PCT with SERMS*due to the fact that it might counteract the SERM
2. to step up the HCG to 2000iu EOD

Could you guys weigh in please
Be careful with high doses of hcg . You can castrate yourself.
 

derekab95

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hey guys maybe someone could help me and have a look at my sarm cycle

mk677 25mg a day for 6 months-1 year or more depending on how I feel.
mk2886 25mg for 4-6 weeksmonths
s4 50mg a day split dosage 6-8 weeks with weekends off
LGD 10mg a day 6-8 weeks
GW501516 20mg a day for 12 weeks

AI 1 cap every 3 days 25mg
TONGKAT ALI CAPSULES 4 weeks into cycle (nat test booster)
Olympus Labs Sup3R PCT after 8 weeks with GW still going
clomid 50/25/25/25 with PCT and GW still going

my question is about the Sup3r pct. i think it has too high of a dosage of AI at 75mg for sarms?
also 10 caps is one dose?
should i forget the sup3r pct? and just take clomid or nolvadex and D-apsaric acid?

also would appreciate anyother feedback or changes that you would mak to the cycle.

ill get blood work done before i start this cycle.
 
rgurleyjr

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Hey guys, asking a few questions about different compounds today, but MK-2866 seems to be the most he said/she said SARM I have ever seen. I ran it for 25mg a day for 1 month, and when I got my blood drawn mid cycle my Test Serum was at 300, Free Test 98.8, Estrogen at 65.6 and low prolactin. I have no pre cycle bloods to compare to sadly.

I'm stuck with so much of this stuff, and it did wonders. It basically propelled me from post physical therapy, to big boy workouts and I'm back at it again. However, the acne and (maybe suppressive) sides were hard to manage as I was blindsided by this supposed miracle drug that is **-No Side Effects-** which was BS.

I listened to Dylan Gemelli, and don't even get me started on him, or anybody on that forum now. He has his own army of people that just attack you for not buying arms from them. Want proof. Ill literally bet 100$ to go sign up and say you got sides from Ostarine, you'll feel persecuted within the hour.

Anyway, I ran it at 25mg every day in the morning orally. When I started getting nipple sensitivity I stopped and got me an anti E and that resolved literally overnight, and didn't return.

Basically I just want to know, if I can run this stuff safely again and reap the benefits while minimizing my side potential.
Dylan Gemelli is a joke.
 
BamBam0319

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hey guys maybe someone could help me and have a look at my sarm cycle

mk677 25mg a day for 6 months-1 year or more depending on how I feel.
mk2886 25mg for 4-6 weeksmonths
s4 50mg a day split dosage 6-8 weeks with weekends off
LGD 10mg a day 6-8 weeks
GW501516 20mg a day for 12 weeks

AI 1 cap every 3 days 25mg
TONGKAT ALI CAPSULES 4 weeks into cycle (nat test booster)
Olympus Labs Sup3R PCT after 8 weeks with GW still going
clomid 50/25/25/25 with PCT and GW still going

my question is about the Sup3r pct. i think it has too high of a dosage of AI at 75mg for sarms?
also 10 caps is one dose?
should i forget the sup3r pct? and just take clomid or nolvadex and D-apsaric acid?

also would appreciate anyother feedback or changes that you would mak to the cycle.

ill get blood work done before i start this cycle.
By "AI" are you referring to arimistane? Because that's not gonna do very much for estrogen control. I'd suggest having a real AI on hand like anastrazole or exemestane.
I would still use the Super PCT but would also take either nolvadex or clomid with it.
 

derekab95

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By "AI" are you referring to arimistane? Because that's not gonna do very much for estrogen control. I'd suggest having a real AI on hand like anastrazole or exemestane.
I would still use the Super PCT but would also take either nolvadex or clomid with it.
thanks for advice man I looked into those aromatase inhibitors anastrazole and exemestane.
do you think its ok to take small dosses of Aromasin(anastrazole) (25mg every 3-4 days) just to be on top of estrogen and then do the arimistane(Androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione) for pct (because thats in OL sup3er pct).
 
YamahaC76

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thanks for advice man I looked into those aromatase inhibitors anastrazole and exemestane.
do you think its ok to take small dosses of Aromasin(anastrazole) (25mg every 3-4 days) just to be on top of estrogen and then do the arimistane(Androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione) for pct (because thats in OL sup3er pct).
Aromasin is Exemestane, I think you have it backwards. And to my knowledge, 25mg is the max dose of that particular AI, not a small dose as you stated. I can't tell you Arimistane's effect on Estrogen. I think it does have a very minor effect, but it mostly dries you out everywhere. I have taken 50mg of Arimistane daily, and I doubt you'll find a member on here that would recommend Arimistane over Aromasin. Just save yourself a headache and panic attack and go for the exemestane.
 

derekab95

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Aromasin is Exemestane, I think you have it backwards. And to my knowledge, 25mg is the max dose of that particular AI, not a small dose as you stated. I can't tell you Arimistane's effect on Estrogen. I think it does have a very minor effect, but it mostly dries you out everywhere. I have taken 50mg of Arimistane daily, and I doubt you'll find a member on here that would recommend Arimistane over Aromasin. Just save yourself a headache and panic attack and go for the exemestane.
cheers man im glad you caught me out on mixing up anastrazole and exemestane. i might have ordered the wrong thing. yeah ill grab some exemestane and take during cycle(probalby only 12.5mg ever 3 days or something) unfortunately i have no choice but to do arimistane for PCT because it come with my over the counter pct (sup3r pct) but they're both type 1 AI (suicide) but from what ive researched exemestane is much stonger. i wish i could swap them around and take exemestane for pct and arimistane for during cycle.
thank for your advice.:)
 
YamahaC76

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cheers man im glad you caught me out on mixing up anastrazole and exemestane. i might have ordered the wrong thing. yeah ill grab some exemestane and take during cycle(probalby only 12.5mg ever 3 days or something) unfortunately i have no choice but to do arimistane for PCT because it come with my over the counter pct (sup3r pct) but they're both type 1 AI (suicide) but from what ive researched exemestane is much stonger. i wish i could swap them around and take exemestane for pct and arimistane for during cycle.
thank for your advice.:)
No problem man, we're here to help. If I may comment on your cycle before before you get started on ordering a bunch of Compounds; Is this going to be your first cycle using anything like this? If So, ill give you a few pointers that I found to be particularly useful from one average Joe to the next.

You're going to want to run one sarm only for your first cycle. You have no idea how your body will react to any of these compounds, and they are not your average vitamin shoppe/gnc supps. If something goes wrong, and you're getting crazy sides, you aren't going to know which compound is causing it, and which compound you need to either taper down or completely stop. I'll give you this analogy...

Think of your body like a car. And you want to install 5-6 complex mods that all will boost your cars performance at a significant %. And you are doing the work yourself (research and administering the compound.) The problem is now that 2 weeks into driving your insanely souped up car, your check engine light comes on and your engine is running too hot. Well, this is an issue now because you don't entirely know what the problem is, or which car mod is the problem. To your knowledge you did everything right, but clearly you missed something somewhere. Now you'll find yourself frantically searching the net for answers, otherwise your flashy new car is going to get towed from breaking down....and you don't have the money to get it out of the impound lot. And trust me my dude, you need your car.

I cannot comment on the 12.5mg EOD of Exemestane yet. I am about to start my second Osta cycle and I didn't run into estrogen issues until 3 weeks in. That very same 12.5mg dose was enough to cut my estrogen issues off completely. So that dose every 3 days may be too much. This is assuming you are running one compound though. LGD will cause estrogen issues much quicker than any other SARM to my knowledge.

Finally: I don't think you will have any issue with the 75mg of Arimistane in your PCT. I think Arimistane is very weak.
 

derekab95

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No problem man, we're here to help. If I may comment on your cycle before before you get started on ordering a bunch of Compounds; Is this going to be your first cycle using anything like this? If So, ill give you a few pointers that I found to be particularly useful from one average Joe to the next.

You're going to want to run one sarm only for your first cycle. You have no idea how your body will react to any of these compounds, and they are not your average vitamin shoppe/gnc supps. If something goes wrong, and you're getting crazy sides, you aren't going to know which compound is causing it, and which compound you need to either taper down or completely stop. I'll give you this analogy...

Think of your body like a car. And you want to install 5-6 complex mods that all will boost your cars performance at a significant %. And you are doing the work yourself (research and administering the compound.) The problem is now that 2 weeks into driving your insanely souped up car, your check engine light comes on and your engine is running too hot. Well, this is an issue now because you don't entirely know what the problem is, or which car mod is the problem. To your knowledge you did everything right, but clearly you missed something somewhere. Now you'll find yourself frantically searching the net for answers, otherwise your flashy new car is going to get towed from breaking down....and you don't have the money to get it out of the impound lot. And trust me my dude, you need your car.

I cannot comment on the 12.5mg EOD of Exemestane yet. I am about to start my second Osta cycle and I didn't run into estrogen issues until 3 weeks in. That very same 12.5mg dose was enough to cut my estrogen issues off completely. So that dose every 3 days may be too much. This is assuming you are running one compound though. LGD will cause estrogen issues much quicker than any other SARM to my knowledge.

Finally: I don't think you will have any issue with the 75mg of Arimistane in your PCT. I think Arimistane is very weak.
thanks for the pointers really appreciate it. this is my second sarms cycle, the first time i did LGD 15 mg, gw 12.5 and mk2886 12.5mg for 8 weeks but only took half that dose for the first 3-4 weeks. had no issues what so ever except my guys shrunk a little bit. i was naive and didn't do any research i didn't do a pct after i finished or take any cycle support i just kept on working out after i came off them. Got very lean and smashed my PRs. but in saying that i got the sarms elite stack off focused nutrition.... and there are a fair amount of people saying they are pro hormones and not sarms. it wouldent suprise me but i reckon they were indeed sarms. this time i purchased off purple panda labs which has a pretty good rep and people post their blood work to back it up. where do you purchase your sarms might i ask?
so this time since i agreed with all off them i will add s4 into the mix and take higher dosses from the beginning along with mk677 (which i am very exited about) but i will take a on cycle support so i dont have any estrogen sides and this time i would like to keep all the gains i get haha.
 

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