SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

jt75

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No I wouldn't necessarily recommend but since the changes through GW are due to altered transcription and thus change in cell-physiology I figure it works better in longer runs.

Last time I ran it I took 10mg a day for 120days. With that beeing a low dose the benefits the latter couple of weeks felt like in previous shorter runs 20mg but with less sides like hunger, thirst, altered blood pressure (I did not measure blood sugar sadly). Only thing worse than in previous runs was the feeling of beeing a total loser at cardio a few days after finishing the cycle.

So if you don't really use it to lower the blood pressure really strong I think running lower doses longer is just fine.

My question however was more to find out if there was new information I missed.
The endurance in cardarine is amazing.
I'm only 4 days in using a liquid cardarine @10mg per day and this stuff kicks in fast. Heavy sets can make me feel a bit dizzy but I'm also in FD2, sipping on some carbs intra sorts the problem out,looking forward to this run
 

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pm where you got it from...i tried gw from AB and it sucked...light headed, no energy, after cardio i would be gassed out like i had asthma all over again...terrible
 

chaossentry

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So far,only about a week in. The ghar1ne from OL Labs has really helped me build solid muscle. Like noticeable traps even without much flex. Healing properties ehh nothing super noticeable. The tingling is very few and far between. The cardar1ne on the first use i felt the rush but other than that. No noticeable differences in terms of helping me drop weight.

It was just a test run anyway,i will be jumping to Evomuse DCP and Supernova+Ignit3 stack to try a natural approach to cutting. But Ghar1ne i am definitely happy with
 
Jm88888

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Used LGD and dermatrest for about 10 weeks. Had Liquid-clo for PCT. couple weeks after PCT ended and the hammer is not working. While on everything was fine, start of pct was ok. But now it's barely anything going on there....
Suggestions? Thanks
 
Joedoubledose

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Used LGD and dermatrest for about 10 weeks. Had Liquid-clo for PCT. couple weeks after PCT ended and the hammer is not working. While on everything was fine, start of pct was ok. But now it's barely anything going on there....
Suggestions? Thanks
You didn't use an AI so your estro is sky high
 
The_Old_Guy

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Used LGD and dermatrest for about 10 weeks. Had Liquid-clo for PCT. couple weeks after PCT ended and the hammer is not working. While on everything was fine, start of pct was ok. But now it's barely anything going on there....
Suggestions? Thanks
Bloodwork.
 

heyboy

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Used LGD and dermatrest for about 10 weeks. Had Liquid-clo for PCT. couple weeks after PCT ended and the hammer is not working. While on everything was fine, start of pct was ok. But now it's barely anything going on there....
Suggestions? Thanks
hammer? penis or liver?
 
EMPIREMIND

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Yeah. So why bother posting? To provide no real response...
That's why I didnt lol. I never posted anything regarding you, I was speaking to theoldguy because his one word response was exactly what I was going to post, but figured why bother, this kid would have already got bloods done in the first place, he just wants someone to tell him "hey it's ok just take this and you be fine." It's knowledge when you deal with exogenous hormones you should be doing bloodwork. However for whatever reason you post on here saying you ran pct and your d!ck doesn't work anymore, yet you haven't done blood work? Maybe your pct wasn't adequate enough.... maybe you didn't dose your clomid high enough, for long enough or maybe clomid alone wasn't enough. Maybe your clomid wasn't even real and you never actually ran a pct after all. Who knows. No one can really help you because without bloodwork they won't know what's going on in your body.
 

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how does 10mg mk677 5 days on 2 days off for 10 years compare to being natty for 10 years?

what kind of side effects can i excpect/risk getting from running mk677 for such a long time. do you guys recommend taking longer time off like once a year or so?

how do you personally recommend dosing/cycling mk677?

thanks to anyone who answers
 
hazard12

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how does 10mg mk677 5 days on 2 days off for 10 years compare to being natty for 10 years?

what kind of side effects can i excpect/risk getting from running mk677 for such a long time. do you guys recommend taking longer time off like once a year or so?

how do you personally recommend dosing/cycling mk677?

thanks to anyone who answers
Let me hit up all the dudes who have been running MK-677 for 10 years...

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There.
 
yates84

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Let me hit up all the dudes who have been running MK-677 for 10 years...

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There.
You're super quick to post that when there are people closing in on that mark for mk usage. Increased GH is excellent for a number of things including all around better quality of life. I know plenty of guys that have been on mk for years and love it to the point they will never come off of it.
 
hazard12

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You're super quick to post that when there are people closing in on that mark for mk usage. Increased GH is excellent for a number of things including all around better quality of life. I know plenty of guys that have been on mk for years and love it to the point they will never come off of it.
Im just being a dick cause it doesnt take much to realize this is a pretty new compound. A lot of the effects are going to be similar to long term GH but the molecule itself could have a host of effects we arent ware of. Most likely not but asking someone to compare the progress of natty vs mk-677 10 years is pretty ludacris, who could have possibly been doing something the same for 20 years half natty, half this.
 
yates84

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Im just being a dick cause it doesnt take much to realize this is a pretty new compound. A lot of the effects are going to be similar to long term GH but the molecule itself could have a host of effects we arent ware of. Most likely not but asking someone to compare the progress of natty vs mk-677 10 years is pretty ludacris, who could have possibly been doing something the same for 20 years half natty, half this.
I agree that the question was dumb and unanswerable but gotta kick in the fact that studies on this compound went on for years with nothing but positive effects. I wish it didn't kill my energy level because it's body composition effects are unlike anything else for me. It's very comperable to 3iu of HGH for me but growth doesn't make me feel like a zombie
 
hazard12

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I agree that the question was dumb and unanswerable but gotta kick in the fact that studies on this compound went on for years with nothing but positive effects. I wish it didn't kill my energy level because it's body composition effects are unlike anything else for me. It's very comperable to 3iu of HGH for me but growth doesn't make me feel like a zombie
Oh yeah, im with you man, im loving mk-677 stacking with cjc-1295 for my recomp. Its allowing me to be rather forgiving sometimes despite some overdone cheat meals haha. It is def something worth trying and finding your right dose. for me 10mg a day before bed works best.
 

Cycloman

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SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

I'm loving the MK-677. Pumps are wicked and the healing and sleep
Quality is the best ever. I tend to run it 2 months on / 2 off - mostly for cost issues. I'm on TRT and the combo of Test and MK is filling me out like I was in my 20's (I'm 50). FYIW - I just came from a corporate offsite meeting (very casual atmosphere) and came to a session in a t-shirt after a great workout and everyone commented how jacked I looked (one person even asked if I was running gear). I must say - it was nice to hear that :). The pumps and healing on MK kick in on day 4 and get better. I run 10-12.5 mg / day at night. No bloating -
No water retention either. Just gains.
 
Jm88888

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Bloodwork.
By the way... I'm going for the bloodwork this week. I'll report back. I'm wonder if I'm struggling with the clo. Heard some people have these issues with it. And it could take a month or 2 to be totally out system. Stay tuned.
 
solidsnake

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I'm loving the MK-677. Pumps are wicked and the healing and sleep
Quality is the best ever. I tend to run it 2 months on / 2 off - mostly for cost issues. I'm on TRT and the combo of Test and MK is filling me out like I was in my 20's (I'm 50). FYIW - I just came from a corporate offsite meeting (very casual atmosphere) and came to a session in a t-shirt after a great workout and everyone commented how jacked I looked (one person even asked if I was running gear). I must say - it was nice to hear that :). The pumps and healing on MK kick in on day 4 and get better. I run 10-12.5 mg / day at night. No bloating -
No water retention either. Just gains.
That's interesting, what brand of mk are you running bro?
 

mase1

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But you are running gear, so he was right? You look like you are running gear because you are.
 
solidsnake

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SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

But you are running gear, so he was right? You look like you are running gear because you are.
My thoughts exactly but it's trt dose so really it's the same amount of test a guy should have would he not need trt, the amount of test he's using isn't the same quantity used in bodybuilding
 
bobi593

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My thoughts exactly but it's trt dose so really it's the same amount of test a guy should have would he not need trt, the amount of test he's using isn't the same quantity used in bodybuilding
no it's not the same on trt the level of test is pretty stable always high because you take exact amount of test on weekly bases in natural guys your level I depend from many factors diet test recovery stress ect on Monday you can have 900 two days after you can be 500 or less
 
bobi593

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I agree that the question was dumb and unanswerable but gotta kick in the fact that studies on this compound went on for years with nothing but positive effects. I wish it didn't kill my energy level because it's body composition effects are unlike anything else for me. It's very comperable to 3iu of HGH for me but growth doesn't make me feel like a zombie
3iu of hgh hmmm sounds really optimistic i'm on mk few months, just done full blood work hormones panel including gh igf 1 time will show....
 

Cycloman

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Exactly. I'm using Androgel and HCG and my Test level is around 1,000 ng/dl. Definitely not a gear-induced dose.
 
The_Old_Guy

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3iu of hgh hmmm sounds really optimistic i'm on mk few months, just done full blood work hormones panel including gh igf 1 time will show....
Please post your IGF-1 number. You probably could have saved some money on the GH panel - it swings so wildly as to be almost useless, IMO.

The only bloodwork I've seen for legit MK, from an experienced user in his mid-40's - had IGF-1 at 310. That's a high-normal level for a 20 year old, so his was good to go.
 
bobi593

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Please post your IGF-1 number. You probably could have saved some money on the GH panel - it swings so wildly as to be almost useless, IMO.

The only bloodwork I've seen for legit MK, from an experienced user in his mid-40's - had IGF-1 at 310. That's a high-normal level for a 20 year old, so his was good to go.
Sure
 
Jm88888

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Results are back:
Total testosterone 564 ng/DL
LH 8.4
FSH 2.7 (in range but almost low out of range.)
Estradiol 23.1
 

Cycloman

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Results are back:
Total testosterone 564 ng/DL
LH 8.4
FSH 2.7 (in range but almost low out of range.)
Estradiol 23.1
These numbers are very healthy - especially after an LGD run. Are you still on Clomid? Also - did you get Free Test checked? What I suspect is happening is that the Clomid raised your SHBG - which "consumes" your free Testosterone- making it lower and less bioavailable. This persists for a month or more after you cease the Clomid. So my advice is - if you are on Clo, stop - you don't need it. Wait another month and get tested again but get a more complete panel that includes Free Test, SHBG, prolactin and DHT along with the other stuff (you need to be off everything for a month before getting tested). My bet is you are going to have low Free T, higher SHBG and lower DHT - all of which contribute to libido and keeping the wood.
 
Jm88888

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These numbers are very healthy - especially after an LGD run. Are you still on Clomid? Also - did you get Free Test checked? What I suspect is happening is that the Clomid raised your SHBG - which "consumes" your free Testosterone- making it lower and less bioavailable. This persists for a month or more after you cease the Clomid. So my advice is - if you are on Clo, stop - you don't need it. Wait another month and get tested again but get a more complete panel that includes Free Test, SHBG, prolactin and DHT along with the other stuff (you need to be off everything for a month before getting tested). My bet is you are going to have low Free T, higher SHBG and lower DHT - all of which contribute to libido and keeping the wood.
I actually stopped clo probably 3 or 4 weeks ago. (I read about exactly what you mentioned. I read it could take months to get completely back) but Slowly I'm getting back to normal. But it's slow. I probably will avoid clo next time and try nolva...
 
Jm88888

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I got the women's hormone panel from private md labs. $50 after coupon.
 

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First time to do any anabolics. Figured I'd start with something mild so I went with Ostarine. I have Anastrozole just in case, and Clomid for PCT. Planning to do an 8 week run of 15mg. Do you guys think I should run an on cycle support with it? I'm thinking either OL Eliminate or OL Arimacare Pro. What do you think? Also, is 50/25/25/25 Clomid PCT enough or should I also have OL Super PCT too? Thanks for your help!
 

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No need for cycle support (other than fish oil for lipids) but you do not need 50/25 mg of Clomid. 12.5 mg/day or 25 EOD is plenty. Throw some Rad-140 in (2.5-5mg) for an extra kick. I would also have an AI on hand (Adex) and possibly some Nolvadex in case you get sore nips. Rare - but I've seen it happen.
 

Damaso

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Thanks!

So you think the Anastrozole is not enough for an AI?
 
bobi593

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IMG_3179.jpg
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status 38 years old (almost) 6/2 high 220 lbs since 2016 on keto all year round ( I used keto before but only in few months cycles) 10 mg MK ( after wake up ) from February, 3 weeks before blood work I jump on 20 mg and also started to cut body fat .
 

Cycloman

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Numbers look great - though SHBG is very high. Normally this would cause Free Test to be low but I doubt it with Total T numbers in your range. Thyroid looks great too.
 
bobi593

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Numbers look great - though SHBG is very high. Normally this would cause Free Test to be low but I doubt it with Total T numbers in your range. Thyroid looks great too.
yep if i could only find effective stuff to cut SHBG that would be awesome.....
 
The_Old_Guy

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So age 38 and on 10mg MK, then 20mg MK - with IGF-1 at 29 (of 37 Max) on May 19th 2017? (hard to read the report). Do you have a pre-MK IGF-1 level? Seems like it's working. I wonder what the average for 40 year olds is, on that scale? What are all those older dates (2012, 2015) on that report - are they previous blood work numbers that are kept track of?
 
bobi593

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SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

So age 38 and on 10mg MK, then 20mg MK - with IGF-1 at 29 (of 37 Max) on May 19th 2017? (hard to read the report). Do you have a pre-MK IGF-1 level? Seems like it's working. I wonder what the average for 40 year olds is, on that scale? What are all those older dates (2012, 2015) on that report - are they previous blood work numbers that are kept track of?
No i do not have previous mk igh1level records and yes all what you said is correct , old records from 2012/15 its just a previous blood tests I have others from different lab too, also I do blood work at least twice a year . mk is working I'm on keto long enough to know that there is no way to have this sort of muscle pump recovery energi etc. natural keep in mind that I'm cutting now . Two weeks ago I up the dosage to 30 mg big difference in the gym also hungry feelings is back again .
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u_e_s_i

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Originally Written by Yates84

Ok....due to an abundant amount of misinformation out there, I decided to put together a SARM, PPAR modulator, and GH secretagogue HOW TO! Here is all the info I find to be beneficial and have decided to share with everyone.....

SARMS, or selective androgen receptor modulators, provide the benefits of traditional AAS (more muscle, less fat, and better bone density) while producing significantly less unwanted side effects (estrogen related sides and water retention). SARMS are a unique class of molecules that are currently being developed to treat diseases that are currently being treated with AAS. Some SARMS have even gone to trial as TRT. When SARMS bind to the receptor they demonstrate anabolic and hypertrophic activity in both muscle and bone. This makes them ideal candidates for TRT, osteoporosis treatment, as well as muscle wasting treatment. SARMS can have as high as a 10:1 anabolic to androgenic ratio. That 10:1 ratio is what allows them to build muscle with little to no side effects. SARMS, also, typically display a high bioavailability.

Let's discuss the benefits of SARMS over traditional AAS. SARMS are nontoxic to the liver, and have little effect on blood pressure. As a result, this eliminates the for preloading and on cycle support supplements. Subsequently, a SARM cycle will ultimately be less expensive than a traditional AAS/Ph cycle. The chances of estrogen related sides an water retention is significantly lower than a AAS/Ph cycle, as well.

Now....let's get familiar with SARM's, PPAR modulators, and GH secretagogues!!

LGD 4033 - a SARM like Ostarine, but 12 times as powerful at only 1/3 the dose! Consequently, this makes it more suppressive to the HPTA. So, a SERM post cycle therapy is recommended. LGD has proven itself as a good bulking agent, where Ostarine is better used in a cutting cycle. LGD has a half life ranging between 24 and 36 hours. So, once daily dosing is optimal. A study performed at Boston University showed that healthy men who were given 1mg of LGD daily gained, on average, about 3 pounds in 3 weeks. No clinically significant changes in liver function tests, PSA (prostate issue/functions test), hematocrit, or ECG were seen or noted. Due to the possibility of high estrogen sides while using LGD, it is recommended that you have an AI, like Exemestane, on hand.

LGD example cycle:
Beginner
LGD 4/4/4/8/8/8
OL Eliminate 2/2/2/2/2/2
PCT:
Clomid 50/25/25
OL Super PCT as indicated on label
AI of choice on hand

Advanced
LGD 4/4/8/8/8/8/12/12
OL Eliminate 2/2/3/3/3/3/3/3
PCT:
Clomid 50/50/25/25
OL Super PCT as indicated on label
AI of choice on hand
*Armicare Pro can be substituted for Eliminate during cycle for full protection

MK 677 (Ibutamoren) - is a non-peptidic, orally active and selective agonist of the growth hormone secretagogue receptor. MK 677 mimics the action of ghrelin in the stomach. As a result this raises growth hormone and IGF-1 levels, but does not affect cortisol levels. Human studies have shown it to increase both muscle mass and bone mineral density. At 25mg daily, Ibutamoren has been shown, in humans, to increase IGF-1 levels 60%in 6 week. A 72% increase in IGF-1 levels was seen after 12 months. MK 677 is non-hormonal, and therefore requires no PCT after cycle is over. MK 677 can best be utilized in at least a 3 month cycle with dosage increasing each month. The optimal dosing time for MK 677 is at night directly before going to bed. One should start notice a deeper sleep almost immediately. If one should
wake up with numb or tingly hands, do not worry. This is a common side effect of the extra GH in the
system.

MK 677 example cycle:
Month 1 - 10mg once daily
Month 2 - 20mg once daily
Month 3 - 30mg once daily

GW 501516 - is actually not a SARM. In fact it is a PPAR Delta Modulator....this means it is a selective agonist with a high affinity for the PPAR. As a result, this modulation allows the body to utilize more glucose and to allows it to create more muscle tissue. GW also regulates the various proteins that the body uses for energy. What does this mean for the user? It means an increase in energy and endurance. Additionally, it may also mean an increase in muscle mass. It is possible that GW may have a positive affect on blood pressure and lipid profile. Dosing is in the 7mg to 21mg range, with 14mg being the "sweet spot". The average GW cycle is typically 4 to 12 weeks. GW is non-hormonal, and therefore requires no PCT. However, it does stack well with SARMS to further increase fat loss and endurance.

GW 505516 example cycle:
Beginner
GW 7/7/14/14/14/14

Intermediate
GW 7//14/14/14/14/21

Advanced
GW 14/14/14/14/21/21/21/21

RAD 140 - is very new! Therefore, there isn't a lot of real world data on it yet. However, it does look very promising!! RAD 140 has an impressive anabolic to androgenic ratio of 90:1! Resulting in one experiencing all the muscle building effects without all the androgenic side effects. RAD is powerful enough to limit the effect of testosterone on the prostate and other unwanted areas. RAD 140 has even been shown to be more anabolic than testosterone, as well. Dosing appears to be in the 4mg to 12mg range, with optimal cycle length being 4 to 6 weeks. Due to its shorter half life (16 hours) RAD needs to be dosed at least twice daily.

RAD 140 example cycle:
RAD 140 4/4/8/8/12/12
PCT:
OL Super PCT as indicated on label
Clomid (if needed) 50/25/25
*Also have AI of choice on hand
*Armicare Pro can be used during cycle for full protection

More to come soon.....
Great post but regrettably I've just found it.
I concluded a cycle of:

I ran the following cycle for 8 weeks

LGD 4033 8mg/day
MK 677 20mg/day
OL Sup3r PCT
OL Ar1macare
OL Kingsguard
Hydrapharm Alchemy (an AI) (1/2 dosage)
DAA

Tbh I hadn't done enough research on LGD and so for the last three weeks I've run

LGD 4033 8mg/day
MK 677 20mg/day
Erase Pro+
Black Lion Research Rebirth
OL Kingsguard
DAA
Norateen Heavyweight II (1/3 dosing preworkout) (it was on sale) (ingredients: mucuna pruriens, fenugreek, DIM, beta-ecdysterone, methoxyisoflavone, vit E)

I'd stopped running Sup3r PCT and ar1macare to give my body a break from natural test boosters and AIs but the suggested four weeks will be up a week from now.
Unfortunately, I've noticed quite a bit of testicular atrophy and I think its due to the LGD 4033, which I've stopped taking. What would you suggest I do?

An order of HCG and clomid will be arriving next week and I'm considering starting the following cycle as a base for PCT:

OL Sup3r PCT
OL Ar1macare
Clomid (what's the dosage, do you mean 50mg daily for the first two weeks and 25mg a day for weeks 3 & 4?)

Would including HCG, nolvadex, DAA and/or anything else in this help? And should I stop taking the BLR Rebirth?

I'd be grateful for advice!
 
The_Old_Guy

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Pray your body ramps testicular function back up and you get back to baseline (it most likely will, playing the odds), but weeks and weeks at very low testosterone levels may be waving bye bye to any gains you made, as well has generally 'feeling like crap'. Those natty things will do very little, if anything at all as far as testosterone. Not an HCG expert, but I don't see why you would need it when you have Clomid and it was a relatively 'sane' LGD cycle of 8mg for 8 weeks - It's a LH mimetic, but I guess it can't hurt and since I like overkill...

Next time: No SERM, No Cycle.

Edit: Oh - Clomid.... normally, some people like to go low and slow, like 25mg for 6-8 weeks (or until blood work shows recovery - which is the preferred method). But since you don't even have it yet, you may want to do the usual 50mg for the first two weeks, I don't know - your body. Also, adding Nolvadex to Clomid is also done by some people - research on here, and also read reddit's https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct

Lots on there, do your due diligence and pick something. As far as DAA etc.... waste of money IMO - you took drugs, you need drugs.
 
u_e_s_i

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Thank you. And for sure, duly noted, next time. Forgive me for being a newbie, what's a 'post blast and cruise' recovery for? It might be useful for me at some point
 
The_Old_Guy

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Thank you. And for sure, duly noted, next time. Forgive me for being a newbie, what's a 'post blast and cruise' recovery for? It might be useful for me at some point
No idea, I just 'Cruise'. Maybe for guys who want to have kids later?

Realize that that page is just a collection of different protocols with some initial vetting (as you can see in the editor's notes for Scally's protocols with 100mg Clomid - uh, no thanks, lol) - it's up to you to read all the supporting information (ie. other places on the net) and determine if it makes sense. Just because it's on there, doesn't mean it was carved into stone tablets. Nom sayin'?
 

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