SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

chaossentry

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can mk-677 and rad-140 be stacked together? If so,would a PCT be needed after doing that cycle?
 

Cycloman

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Absolutely. I'm running it now. You will need a PCT unless you are in TRT due to the RAD, which is very suppressive. Just run Clomid 12.5 mg / day fkr a month. My advice is that if you are not running with a test base - keep it short - like 4-6 weeks. The Rad will knock your Testosterone levels way down (LH/FSH won't be as suppressed so you will recover quickly) but you will experience extreme lethargy from the suppression after 4 weeks). Also - don't go crazy with it - 5mg/day of Rad is plenty.
 

chaossentry

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so rad-140 is suppressive like LGD or typical anabolic steroids?
 

Cycloman

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Yes. Extremely. Like LGD but less than AAS since it does not shut down your HPTA as badly.
 

chaossentry

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what about the cholesterol scare? I saw some video from the TGB supplement guys who ran tests on their bloodwork. showing their bad cholesterol jumped up by like 150.
 

Cycloman

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That's why you go low. I ran it last year at 2.5-5mg and my good cholesterol dropped
From 78 to 39. Bad was unchanged at 75. All androgens mess up lipids. SARMS do it at a lesser degree.
 

chaossentry

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dam,i want to cut fat and increase muscle strength and size. I just was kinda trying to avoid the suppression factor. It's why i like mk-677 so much. Rad-140 just comes off as a bit risky.
 

Cycloman

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Well it all depends- you will get better gains from RAD and stacking it with MK will be a very nice addition. If you do run any SARMs - my experience/ recommendation is keep it to a minimally effective dose and do short "blasts" 4-6 weeks max depending on your goals. This helps minimizes the suppression time of TEst and lipids.
 

chaossentry

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family histtory of heart disease. risking my LDL is kinda playing russian roulette
 
yates84

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chaossentry

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is cardarine still the unknown possiblely cancer causing sarm? or has new researched debunked that?
 
yates84

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is cardarine still the unknown possiblely cancer causing sarm? or has new researched debunked that?
Has been debunked a long time ago. We've discussed it multiple times in this thread. The problem with gw is cellular proliferation in the liver while on gw so don't drink alcohol or use methylated steroids while on gw.
 

Cycloman

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family histtory of heart disease. risking my LDL is kinda playing russian roulette
. Do you take a Statin? If not why not? The Statin will mitigate raising LDL. I am on Lipitor and my LDL did not budge while running Sarms. Total Cholesterol and HDL tanked but my ratio was still in the low risk category. They bounced back after I came off
 

chaossentry

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Has been debunked a long time ago. We've discussed it multiple times in this thread. The problem with gw is cellular proliferation in the liver while on gw so don't drink alcohol or use methylated steroids while on gw.
It was debunked? I thought it was left up in the air because their was no continued research to disprove it or prove it?
 

heyboy

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It was debunked? I thought it was left up in the air because their was no continued research to disprove it or prove it?
I keep dreaming of a future, a future with a long and healthy life, not lived in the shadow of cancer but in the light.
 
BamBam0319

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I keep dreaming of a future, a future with a long and healthy life, not lived in the shadow of cancer but in the light.
I dream of a forum free of preteens asking simple Google-worthy questions about steroids and at the same time preaching about how bad and illegal they are and no one should use them because it's cheating.
Begone with thee.
 

heyboy

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I dream of a forum free of preteens asking simple Google-worthy questions about steroids and at the same time preaching about how bad and illegal they are and no one should use them because it's cheating.
Begone with thee.
Every time I see documentaries or infomercials about little kids with cancer, I just freak out. It affects me on the highest emotional level... Anytime I think about it, it makes me sadder than anything I can think of.

btw, idm steroids.. you didnt understand what i was saying
 
solidsnake

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I keep dreaming of a future, a future with a long and healthy life, not lived in the shadow of cancer but in the light.
You don't half come up with some crap man! Jesus!
 
vascopro

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Hi,

I've already done hair surgery...

I'm doing only 6 weeks to minimize hair loss, and I came up with these 3 options, for a RECOMP CYCLE:

1 - Ostarine @20mg + [email protected]

2 - Ostarine @15mg + 11-KT @125mg

3 - Ostarine @15mg + 4-Andro @220mg


PCT:
Nolvadex @20/20/10/10
OL Kingsblood


QUESTION: CYCLE?
What would you pick? What will you change? Which one is worst for my hair? Which one is better for muscle gain?

I'm also taking MK-677 @20mg already for 4+months which I was planning to carry on unless I feel bloated.
I feel no special hunger or bloated (since my abs are visible but I'm still fat...)
If bloated should I stop completely or just decrease to @10mg??
The bloat will disappear in what? Something like a week?


BIG THANKS FOR YOUR HELP!! yates84
 
BamBam0319

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Every time I see documentaries or infomercials about little kids with cancer, I just freak out. It affects me on the highest emotional level... Anytime I think about it, it makes me sadder than anything I can think of.

btw, idm steroids.. you didnt understand what i was saying
Maybe you didn't mean steroids this time, but you have made posts talking down about them...among the countless posts you've made ASKING about how to properly use them.
 

heyboy

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Maybe you didn't mean steroids this time, but you have made posts talking down about them...among the countless posts you've made ASKING about how to properly use them.
no, i have not talked down on steroids...

Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
 

Cycloman

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I've been following this for a while - including reading articles going back to 2008 through recent publications. Seems that there is no direct evidence that it causes cancer in humans - as opposed to rats - because of the ways the various PPARs are expressed. Also some of the correlations suggesting pro-cancer are exactly that a correlation (e.g. Lung cancer cells have a higher level of certain PPARs so researches assume higher PPAR activation increases cancer.). This may or may not be true. Other studies show that higher levels of certain PPARs in other parts of the body (e.g. melanoma cells) actually regress tumors. It's all really inconclusive. However – I have been trolling all sorts of forms – and have not found any person that stated they had cancer from GW50156. It's probably a dose / duration thing - like many drugs.
 
BamBam0319

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no, i have not talked down on steroids...

Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
Thanks ghandi.
Well, when I think of steroids I think of an image. You have the advantage over someone, which is a form of cheating. I guess it wouldn't be right unless it was legal for everybody. Reason it's not legal for everybody is because it can hurt people seriously.
I don't recommend steroids for everyone, and I don't recommend growth hormones for everyone, but for certain individuals, I truly believe, that it can make an average athlete a super athlete. It can make a super athlete-incredible. Just legendary.
You were saying?
 
yates84

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i think they should be legal for everyone.

i recommend it for certain individuals
Seriously, GTFO my thread bro. This thing has gone on way too long for some little dbag to come along and mess it up. Go troll one of your own threads.
 

heyboy

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Seriously, GTFO my thread bro. This thing has gone on way too long for some little dbag to come along and mess it up. Go troll one of your own threads.
ok, my intention wer not to annoy you
 
yates84

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trueedge

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Seriously, GTFO my thread bro. This thing has gone on way too long for some little dbag to come along and mess it up. Go troll one of your own threads.
Hey man I tried to send you a PM but it says I can only messages certain people lol.
 

trueedge

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dam,i want to cut fat and increase muscle strength and size. I just was kinda trying to avoid the suppression factor. It's why i like mk-677 so much. Rad-140 just comes off as a bit risky.
That's what I'm trying to do bro. I got ripped off last year as far as pricing but I did make a little gains with ostarine but didn't see much effects of the cardarine. Seemed like a wasted.
 
RANS0M

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I didn't even realize this but sr9009/Stenabolic is non hormonal and can be used in pct
 
sanmarino

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My wife ran it and wasn't impressed. Her go to cycle is rad140 almost every time.
I think, the real effect of YK-11 may shine through the length of the compound usage (the longer used, the better the results). Used YK-11 too and was neither that impressed - beside of the temporary strength gain when used 3mg/ed (3x1mg) and and extra 1mg as pre-workout booster. Length was - due to unknown profile - not longer than four weeks. My impression is: when you are already in a steroid cycle, you can aim to increase the Follistatine with YK-11 (e.g. when using it mid cycle). THIS could be the real deal. But to be honest, I wouldn't take it during a longer period.


I keep dreaming of a future, a future with a long and healthy life, not lived in the shadow of cancer but in the light.
Then bodybuilding or powerlifting is the completely wrong activity for you. Important factors for a long and healthy life: quit sport (reduces IGF-1, which reduces cell proliferation which reduces tumor-activity), start using natural antioxidants and and reduce your calorie intake. Three very important factors. There are further, but you can search for your own in another forum.


I've been following this for a while - including reading articles going back to 2008 through recent publications. Seems that there is no direct evidence that it causes cancer in humans - as opposed to rats - because of the ways the various PPARs are expressed. Also some of the correlations suggesting pro-cancer are exactly that a correlation (e.g. Lung cancer cells have a higher level of certain PPARs so researches assume higher PPAR activation increases cancer.). This may or may not be true. Other studies show that higher levels of certain PPARs in other parts of the body (e.g. melanoma cells) actually regress tumors. It's all really inconclusive. However – I have been trolling all sorts of forms – and have not found any person that stated they had cancer from GW50156. It's probably a dose / duration thing - like many drugs.
To be honest: PPAR are very interesting and have very strong effects - positive and negative ones. If you are researching for glitazar (ppar-gamma), you will see a lot cancelled substances. PPAR have a powerful effect for example in the circadian rhythm (I think I don't have to explain how bad this can end if you mess it up).
The GW-501516 for example had very promising results in comparison to fibrates, glitazares and glitazones. We can only guess why the studies have been cancelled (beside the official statement of "..it would be unethical to further investigate this substance on humans while the rodents got diverse cancer forms..").

Overall we can say, that GW-501516 has more a positive correlation to cancer development - from my personal point of view more than anabolic steroids or growth hormones. Nevertheless, if you are a smart doper and don't exaggerate the dosage and length and try to avoid negative impacts (e.g. see yate84 statement about alcohol/drug abuse while using a PPAR like GW-501516 or try to reduce COX-2, which is a indicator for potential tumor development or try to avoid a very anabolic environment via AAS/growth hormone) then you could get away safely (which is relative). :)
 
The_Old_Guy

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Overall we can say, that GW-501516 has more a positive correlation to cancer development - from my personal point of view more than anabolic steroids or growth hormones. Nevertheless, if you are a smart doper and don't exaggerate the dosage and length and try to avoid negative impacts (e.g. see yate84 statement about alcohol/drug abuse while using a PPAR like GW-501516 or try to reduce COX-2, which is a indicator for potential tumor development or try to avoid a very anabolic environment via AAS/growth hormone) then you could get away safely (which is relative). :)
And don't forget, the *only* study (in mice) that showed any benefit to GW, was at an HED of 0.41mg/kg (41mg for a 100kg human).

See:

EXPERIMENTAL PROCEDURES
Exercise training and drug treatment


Here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2706130/
 
yates84

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chaossentry

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how long can rad be taken for along with mk-677 before you need to cycle off? Then how much pct is needed and for how long to recover back to normal levels of the PG?
 
BamBam0319

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how long can rad be taken for along with mk-677 before you need to cycle off? Then how much pct is needed and for how long to recover back to normal levels of the PG?
See the original post. Read up!
 
vascopro

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Hi,

I've already done hair surgery...

I'm doing only 6 weeks to minimize hair loss, and I came up with these 3 options, for a RECOMP CYCLE:

1 - Ostarine @20mg + [email protected]

2 - Ostarine @15mg + 11-KT @125mg

3 - Ostarine @15mg + 4-Andro @220mg


PCT:
Nolvadex @20/20/10/10
OL Kingsblood


QUESTION: CYCLE?
What would you pick? What will you change? Which one is worst for my hair? Which one is better for muscle gain?

I'm also taking MK-677 @20mg already for 4+months which I was planning to carry on unless I feel bloated.
I feel no special hunger or bloated (since my abs are visible but I'm still fat...)
If bloated should I stop completely or just decrease to @10mg??
The bloat will disappear in what? Something like a week?


BIG THANKS FOR YOUR HELP!! yates84
Bump!
 

chaossentry

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so armicare pro can it be used during a rad-140 cycle? or only after it is done?
 
BamBam0319

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so armicare pro can it be used during a rad-140 cycle? or only after it is done?
During. Did you read it..? Even Ar1macare's product description instructs to use during cycle. But OL has new on cycle and post cycle products: KingsGuard and KingsBlood, respectively. All you have to do is read the dosage instructions and you will know how to take each product.
 
yates84

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During. Did you read it..? Even Ar1macare's product description instructs to use during cycle. But OL has new on cycle and post cycle products: KingsGuard and KingsBlood, respectively. All you have to do is read the dosage instructions and you will know how to take each product.
Yes I read it,but I just had to ask because I had always been told anything suppressive. The PCT was to be taken when the cycle ends. Not during
 
vascopro

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Man, I've answered all your questions the best I could via PM. Anything more would be guessing honestly.
I haven't received any message from you yates84... Otherwise I wouldn't be posting it here again...

Just checked again right now and I have nothing in my inbox...

The last message I have from you is from July/August 2016...

Can you please be kind to re-send it to me?

Thank you very much for your time and help.
 
u_e_s_i

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I could really do with some advising. I'm about to start a delayed PCT for an extended LGD cycle (10 weeks) which ended two weeks ago. Unfortunately, I was ill prepared and have been without a proper SERM. A week ago, I started reading up on proper PCT protocol and ordered some HCG, clomid and nolvadex. Additionally, I opened a bottle of BLR Rebirth (an OTC SERM), and two days ago, I began taking OL K1ngs Blood as a starting point for my PCT. There are also bottles of OL ar1macare, another, stronger, AI, OL kingsguard, Erase Pro, DAA and anabeta elite on hand, although I'm not sure whether I should be taking them as part of my PCT.

The HCG (1 vial of 5000 i.u.) I ordered has arrived though I intend to order more, I'm thinking 20000 i.u. more. Different people have offered different opinions on whether or not I'll need HCG and on how much I'll need, which is why I only ordered 5000 i.u. at first. My testes have shrunk a fair bit, which is why I'm pretty sure using HCG's a good idea.
The clomid (20 pills of 100mg = 2000mg total) and the nolvadex (60 tabs of 20mg = 1200mg total) should be with me in the next two days.

Rn I have four questions:
Firstly, what protocol would you recommend (perhaps of the following)?
Secondly, I don't have any needles atm. I can have some within five days but can I utilise the HCG some other way?
Thirdly, are either intramuscular or subcutaneous injection preferred for HCG?
Lastly, would 1ml syringes be a better choice than 2.5ml ones (12, 16 & 25mm heads are available)?



Option A :

Clomid 50 / 50 / 25 / 25 / 25 / 25 ED (split doses)
HCG 500 iu EOD (first 20 days)


Other options:

Original PoWeR PCT

by Michael Scally (former) M.D.
• HCG - 2500 iu EOD – (first 16 days)
• Clomid - 100 mg ED - split the dose ½ in the AM, ½ in the PM (first 30 days)
• Nolvadex - 20 mg ED – split the dose ½ in the AM, ½ in the PM (entire 45 days)
NOTE:*Clomid and HCG dosing are extremely high, 50mg clomid should be the upper limit as you should never need more. Blasting high doses of HCG could lead to desensitization of receptors.
The above is a documented and approved PCT plan by former Dr. Scally. This can be found in Anabolics 10th Edition by William Llewellyn.


New PoWeR PCT

by Michael Scally (former) M.D.
• HCG - 2000 iu EOD – (first 20 days)
• Clomid - 100 mg ED - split the dose ½ in the AM, ½ in the PM (first 30 days)
• Nolvadex - 40 mg ED – split the dose ½ in the AM, ½ in the PM (entire 45 days)
NOTE:*Clomid and HCG dosing are extremely high, 50mg clomid should be the upper limit as you should never need more. Blasting high doses of HCG could lead to desensitization of receptors.
The above is a documented and approved PCT plan by former Dr. Scally.


A Doctor's Recommended PCT (TRT Clinic)

/u/DeludedOldMan's TRT doctor recommend this plan when coming off a 9-month cruise:
Weeks 1-2 (last 2 weeks of injecting test)
• Test C/E (normal TRT dose)
• 400 iu HCG E3D
• 50 mg Clomid EOD
Weeks 3-4
• 400 iu HCG E3D
• 50 mg Clomid EOD
Weeks 5 - 6
• 50 mg Clomid EOD
Week 7-8
• 50 mg Clomid E3D
HCG is not needed for four weeks straight, instead should be run for one week, either week 2 or 3 at 200IU/E3D.
 

Cycloman

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I could really do with some advising. I'm about to start a delayed PCT for an extended LGD cycle (10 weeks) which ended two weeks ago. Unfortunately, I was ill prepared and have been without a proper SERM. A week ago, I started reading up on proper PCT protocol and ordered some HCG, clomid and nolvadex. Additionally, I opened a bottle of BLR Rebirth (an OTC SERM), and two days ago, I began taking OL K1ngs Blood as a starting point for my PCT. There are also bottles of OL ar1macare, another, stronger, AI, OL kingsguard, Erase Pro, DAA and anabeta elite on hand, although I'm not sure whether I should be taking them as part of my PCT.

The HCG (1 vial of 5000 i.u.) I ordered has arrived though I intend to order more, I'm thinking 20000 i.u. more. Different people have offered different opinions on whether or not I'll need HCG and on how much I'll need, which is why I only ordered 5000 i.u. at first. My testes have shrunk a fair bit, which is why I'm pretty sure using HCG's a good idea.
The clomid (20 pills of 100mg = 2000mg total) and the nolvadex (60 tabs of 20mg = 1200mg total) should be with me in the next two days.

Rn I have four questions:
Firstly, what protocol would you recommend (perhaps of the following)?
Secondly, I don't have any needles atm. I can have some within five days but can I utilise the HCG some other way?
Thirdly, are either intramuscular or subcutaneous injection preferred for HCG?
Lastly, would 1ml syringes be a better choice than 2.5ml ones (12, 16 & 25mm heads are available)?



Option A :

Clomid 50 / 50 / 25 / 25 / 25 / 25 ED (split doses)
HCG 500 iu EOD (first 20 days)


Other options:

Original PoWeR PCT

by Michael Scally (former) M.D.
• HCG - 2500 iu EOD – (first 16 days)
• Clomid - 100 mg ED - split the dose ½ in the AM, ½ in the PM (first 30 days)
• Nolvadex - 20 mg ED – split the dose ½ in the AM, ½ in the PM (entire 45 days)
NOTE:*Clomid and HCG dosing are extremely high, 50mg clomid should be the upper limit as you should never need more. Blasting high doses of HCG could lead to desensitization of receptors.
The above is a documented and approved PCT plan by former Dr. Scally. This can be found in Anabolics 10th Edition by William Llewellyn.


New PoWeR PCT

by Michael Scally (former) M.D.
• HCG - 2000 iu EOD – (first 20 days)
• Clomid - 100 mg ED - split the dose ½ in the AM, ½ in the PM (first 30 days)
• Nolvadex - 40 mg ED – split the dose ½ in the AM, ½ in the PM (entire 45 days)
NOTE:*Clomid and HCG dosing are extremely high, 50mg clomid should be the upper limit as you should never need more. Blasting high doses of HCG could lead to desensitization of receptors.
The above is a documented and approved PCT plan by former Dr. Scally.


A Doctor's Recommended PCT (TRT Clinic)

/u/DeludedOldMan's TRT doctor recommend this plan when coming off a 9-month cruise:
Weeks 1-2 (last 2 weeks of injecting test)
• Test C/E (normal TRT dose)
• 400 iu HCG E3D
• 50 mg Clomid EOD
Weeks 3-4
• 400 iu HCG E3D
• 50 mg Clomid EOD
Weeks 5 - 6
• 50 mg Clomid EOD
Week 7-8
• 50 mg Clomid E3D
HCG is not needed for four weeks straight, instead should be run for one week, either week 2 or 3 at 200IU/E3D.
Option A is the winner but with a small change. Do 500 IU HCG EOD for 3 weeks. (You will feel better right away and it will get the testes producing again). You will need an AI with this - .5 Alex E3D. Then, the day after your last shot run clomid but you do not need anywhere near that much. 25mg EOD or 12.5 ED is more than enough to stimulate the pituitary. Going higher only increases side effects. Trust me - my T-levels were under 100 after a Sarm cycle and a month at 12.5 mg clomid had me at over 900. This is backed by research as well as conformation with a leading TRT clinic. Don't go high on Serms. Start pinning that HCG today bro.
 

chaossentry

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Is Focused Nutrition Elite MK-677 quality or just stick with Ghar1ne from Ol Labs UK?
 
BamBam0319

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Is Focused Nutrition Elite MK-677 quality or just stick with Ghar1ne from Ol Labs UK?
Haven't used it in like a year but it was good to go back then
 
u_e_s_i

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Option A is the winner but with a small change. Do 500 IU HCG EOD for 3 weeks. (You will feel better right away and it will get the testes producing again). You will need an AI with this - .5 Alex E3D. Then, the day after your last shot run clomid but you do not need anywhere near that much. 25mg EOD or 12.5 ED is more than enough to stimulate the pituitary. Going higher only increases side effects. Trust me - my T-levels were under 100 after a Sarm cycle and a month at 12.5 mg clomid had me at over 900. This is backed by research as well as conformation with a leading TRT clinic. Don't go high on Serms. Start pinning that HCG today bro.
Cheers bro The Clomid and nolva both arrived today and I should be able to get some sterile water to serve as diluent for the HCG.
What's Alex? As it'll take a few days for anything additional to get to me, are there any alternatives I could use in the meantime? I have some SNS Erase, Man Sport Nolvadren XT, Erase Pro+ and some Hydrapharm Alchemy
 
BamBam0319

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Cheers bro The Clomid and nolva both arrived today and I should be able to get some sterile water to serve as diluent for the HCG.
What's Alex? As it'll take a few days for anything additional to get to me, are there any alternatives I could use in the meantime? I have some SNS Erase, Man Sport Nolvadren XT, Erase Pro+ and some Hydrapharm Alchemy
He meant adex, short for arimidex. Brand name for anastrozole
 

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