SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

[yates84]

When I diet down for contests, it's the most noticeable gains that I have encounter. I do believe in burning fat and going muscle at the same time.

Tren is the first thing that came to mind, it's an anabolic steroid that actively decreases body fat...

 

[jbryand101b]

SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

What compound are you referring to? So you're saying that fat loss and muscle gain can't happen at the same time? I seem to do this every cycle. Please explain why recomping isn't possible

Any anabolic compound. Just asking for more info from your second paragraph in your op.

Anabolism is the process of taking smaller molecules and building them into larger ones.

Catabolism is the process of taking larger molecules and breaking them down into smaller ones.

So fat loss is a catabolic process. So does that mean these sarms are anabolic AND catabolic at the same time?
How's that work?

 

[bigjoe90]

I think this is just a misconception... it's true that actually anabolism is the opposite of catabolism but remember that a human body will never be in a total anabolic or catabolic state as far as the two processes are always working at the same time (one more then the other depending on lots of factor).
So it is perfectly legit to say that an anabolic agent for the muscle tissue can also work as a catabolic agent for the adipose tissue. It is just a matter of androgen gene expression which actually increases protein syntesis (anabolic process) and at the same time encourages fat loss (catabolic process).
In this regard tren is the perfect example because of it's insanely strong and not selective affinity for androgen receptors in muscles and fat meaning muscle gains and fat burning at the same time.
(Sorry for any grammatical error but I'm not american/english and I'm writing from a phone which actually it's not mine)

 

[jbryand101b]

I think this is just a misconception... it's true that actually anabolism is the opposite of catabolism but remember that a human body will never be in a total anabolic or catabolic state as far as the two processes are always working at the same time (one more then the other depending on lots of factor).
So it is perfectly legit to say that an anabolic agent for the muscle tissue can also work as a catabolic agent for the adipose tissue. It is just a matter of androgen gene expression which actually increases protein syntesis (anabolic process) and at the same time encourages fat loss (catabolic process).
In this regard tren is the perfect example because of it's insanely strong and not selective affinity for androgen receptors in muscles and fat meaning muscle gains and fat burning at the same time.
(Sorry for any grammatical error but I'm not american/english and I'm writing from a phone which actually it's not mine)

So the anabolism is selective, only providing anabolism to muscles and not anabolism to fat cells?

Fat gain is an anabolic process though?

 

[bigjoe90]

Exactly! Fat gain is an anabolic process, cause as you correctly said anabolism actually means "taking smaller molecules and building them into larger ones" so even taking triglycerids (which essentially are small molecules made of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen) to build large fatty acid cells (which are substantially ring shaped cells filled with liquid fatty acid) is an anabolic process just like it happens for amimoacids and muscle building.
But as I said the human body regulated itself by numerous metabolic pathway happening at the same time.
So you'll have some factors, expecially hormones, that will have a total anabolic activity (in order to store fat, proteins and carbs) while some other will have multiple function (anabolic+catabolic at the same time).
In practice two perfect example are insulin and not selective androgens (steroids).
Insulin it's a peptide hormone which actually is anabolic in the muscle tissue (by upgrading carbs and protein storage) and in fat tissue (transorming excessive carbs into fatty acid by the activation of specifical processes).
Steroids generally activates the androgen receptors in multiple tissues enhancing protein synthesis (anabolic as you'll gain muscle) and energy expenditure (catabolic as you'll burn fat).
So in conclusion, even if things are a little bit more complex when talking about the mechanics of human body, we can say that anabolism and catabolism can surely happen at the same time; it's just a matter of factors (expecially hormones) involved and how selective thay are in regard to anabolic and catabolic activity in the tissue were they explain their action.

 

[jbryand101b]

Exactly! Fat gain is an anabolic process, cause as you correctly said anabolism actually means "taking smaller molecules and building them into larger ones" so even taking triglycerids (which essentially are small molecules made of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen) to build large fatty acid cells (which are substantially ring shaped cells filled with liquid fatty acid) is an anabolic process just like it happens for amimoacids and muscle building.
But as I said the human body regulated itself by numerous metabolic pathway happening at the same time.
So you'll have some factors, expecially hormones, that will have a total anabolic activity (in order to store fat, proteins and carbs) while some other will have multiple function (anabolic+catabolic at the same time).
In practice two perfect example are insulin and not selective androgens (steroids).
Insulin it's a peptide hormone which actually is anabolic in the muscle tissue (by upgrading carbs and protein storage) and in fat tissue (transorming excessive carbs into fatty acid by the activation of specifical processes).
Steroids generally activates the androgen receptors in multiple tissues enhancing protein synthesis (anabolic as you'll gain muscle) and energy expenditure (catabolic as you'll burn fat).
So in conclusion, even if things are a little bit more complex when talking about the mechanics of human body, we can say that anabolism and catabolism can surely happen at the same time; it's just a matter of factors (expecially hormones) involved and how selective thay are in regard to anabolic and catabolic activity in the tissue were they explain their action.

Well this is no fun. I wanted the op to answer these questions, but you did a good job, though you could of just said the metabolic demand of increasing protein synthesis is enough to increase lypolisis to a degree that the fat usage out weighs the fat storage, if diet is right that is.

Even on tren, one can get fat, though it's a bit tougher.

Now I'll go through the rest of the op an take a look

 

[yates84]

Well this is no fun. I wanted the op to answer these questions, but you did a good job, though you could of just said the metabolic demand of increasing protein synthesis is enough to increase lypolisis to a degree that the fat usage out weighs the fat storage, if diet is right that is.

Even on tren, one can get fat, though it's a bit tougher.

Now I'll go through the rest of the op an take a look

Its very nice of you to take an interest in my thread!

 

[mw1]

Since this is about peptides I thought this should be posted. It appears the Feds are taking action against low level peptide companies already. What do you think they will do with Supplement companies selling it:
http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/coram-man-pleads-guilty-to-selling-illegal-skin-tanning-drug-1.10673970

 

[T-Bone]

More importantly, When was the last time you ate at Applebees?

 

[Hastur]

Well as far as I know, no supplement companies are selling Melanotan 2, or any peptides. That's more of a 'grey market' and 'black market' series of products, what with M2 and most peptides require injections... And this thread is about SARMS (LGD/RAD), a growth hormone secretagogue (MK677), and a PPAR modulator (GW). None of which are illegal, to the best of my knowledge. No peptides here.

And the last time I ate at Applebee's was at least 6 months ago, the food is too overpriced for my taste... And their draft beers are just unreasonable. You're telling me it's $6 for a Bud Light?

 

[yates84]

Well as far as I know, no supplement companies are selling Melanotan 2, or any peptides. That's more of a 'grey market' and 'black market' series of products, what with M2 and most peptides require injections... And this thread is about SARMS (LGD/RAD), a growth hormone secretagogue (MK677), and a PPAR modulator (GW). None of which are illegal, to the best of my knowledge. No peptides here.

And the last time I ate at Applebee's was at least 6 months ago, the food is too overpriced for my taste... And their draft beers are just unreasonable. You're telling me it's $6 for a Bud Light?

They are all unscheduled, you are correct

 

[mw1]

They are grouping Sarms with peptides. Did you know most sarms are already patented by Pharma companies?? Many of the holders will be taking action against many of them soon....especially Ostarine

 

[mw1]

They are all unscheduled, you are correct

Scheduled doesn't mean crap for the FTC and FDA when it comes to unapproved/misbranded drugs. He'll the fine would probably be less if it was a scheduled drug. The FTC fines are outrageous PLUS they can stop a person from ever selling Supplement again, unlike the DEA or fda.

 

[Hastur]

They are grouping Sarms with peptides. Did you know most sarms are already patented by Pharma companies?? Many of the holders will be taking action against many of them soon....especially Ostarine

Scheduled doesn't mean crap for the FTC and FDA when it comes to unapproved/misbranded drugs. He'll the fine would probably be less if it was a scheduled drug. The FTC fines are outrageous PLUS they can stop a person from ever selling Supplement again, unlike the DEA or fda.

Who is grouping SARMS with peptides? The US federal government? I didn't see anything in that article that led me to that conclusion, however I didn't have full access to the article either. If there is official word out that a government organization is grouping SARMS with peptides, and taking action against them, I haven't seen it yet. Though that doesn't mean it isn't out there, I'm just saying this is the first I've heard of it. Yes, I am aware that there are patents for some of the products on the market, though this isn't an isolated incident by any means. I can't say that I have enough knowledge of the Federal Trade Commission to comment on their actions, nor on your statements regarding them. I've had no dealings with the FTC/FDA/DEA... I suppose time will tell if there is an issue on a Federal level. However any further information you have regarding the matter would probably be of much interest to the entire community currently using SARMS, perhaps this subject deserves it's own thread for discussion?

 

[jbryand101b]

They are grouping Sarms with peptides. Did you know most sarms are already patented by Pharma companies?? Many of the holders will be taking action against many of them soon....especially Ostarine

Good to know, better stock up!

 

[jbryand101b]

Who is grouping SARMS with peptides? The US federal government? I didn't see anything in that article that led me to that conclusion, however I didn't have full access to the article either. If there is official word out that a government organization is grouping SARMS with peptides, and taking action against them, I haven't seen it yet. Though that doesn't mean it isn't out there, I'm just saying this is the first I've heard of it. Yes, I am aware that there are patents for some of the products on the market, though this isn't an isolated incident by any means. I can't say that I have enough knowledge of the Federal Trade Commission to comment on their actions, nor on your statements regarding them. I've had no dealings with the FTC/FDA/DEA... I suppose time will tell if there is an issue on a Federal level. However any further information you have regarding the matter would probably be of much interest to the entire community currently using SARMS, perhaps this subject deserves it's own thread for discussion?

Sarms being sold from supp companies aren't dshea compliant and illegal to be sold. You can rest assured action will be taken eventually

 

[T-Bone]

If I had to take a guess I'd say 70% of people taking these drugs don't realize what they are taking. They just think of it as a supplement, because it's sold as a supplement.

 

[Joedoubledose]

Ya patent holders are about to lay down the long d*** of the law

 

[JONimal]

Maybe the new UK branding could help their case for US pharma companies???

 

[mw1]

If I had to take a guess I'd say 70% of people taking these drugs don't realize what they are taking. They just think of it as a supplement, because it's sold as a supplement.

I'm pretty sure that's why the are being looked at now. I loved OL'S Ostarine but I just don't think it will last much longer.

 

[1test]

Trust in science

 

[CJNator]

Just a quick question, MK677 in the morning or night? This is for a friend and he says at night and I've read in the morning.

 

[yates84]

Just a quick question, MK677 in the morning or night? This is for a friend and he says at night and I've read in the morning.

Depends on diet for me. In the am on a bulk since it makes you hungry, in the pm right before bed on a cut for the same reason

 

[chedapalooza]

SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

Yates this is a phenomenal thread. I was under the impression that MK677 needed a PCT and caused suppression. I've seen conflicting info regarding this so I'm taking your word for it. I am also very interested in cardar1ne.

 

[chedapalooza]

Depends on diet for me. In the am on a bulk since it makes you hungry, in the pm right before bed on a cut for the same reason

I follow IF year round (cut or bulk) I'm Assuming at night would be best?

How far away from food are we talking here. Typically I go to sleep 2-3 hours after my last meal.

 

[chedapalooza]

Using gw without an adequate amount of carbs can result in low blood sugar sides. You can follow a lower carb diet but you will want to carb up as needed, especially around workout time.

Like say back loading about 200g carbs post workout?

 

[chedapalooza]

GW 501516 - is actually not a SARM. In fact it is a PPAR Delta Modulator....this means it is a selective agonist with a high affinity for the PPAR. As a result, this modulation allows the body to utilize more glucose and to allows it to create more muscle tissue. GW also regulates the various proteins that the body uses for energy. What does this mean for the user? It means an increase in energy and endurance. Additionally, it may also mean an increase in muscle mass. It is possible that GW may have a positive affect on blood pressure and lipid profile. Dosing is in the 7mg to 21mg range, with 14mg being the "sweet spot".

**The average GW cycle is typically 4 to 12 weeks. ***

GW is non-hormonal, and therefore requires no PCT. However, it does stack well with SARMS to further increase fat loss and endurance.
.....

Is 12 weeks ok or has more research shown 8 to be the safer route?

 

[diogodasilva]

SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

How good is mk677 for sleep? Is it enough beneficial to counteract gear insomnia? I mean, I always have trouble sleeping on cycle, would it help at least to some degree?

I am not talking about tren insomnia only. Aas in general.

 

[yates84]

How good is mk677 for sleep? Is it enough beneficial to counteract gear insomnia? I mean, I always have trouble sleeping on cycle, would it help at least to some degree?

I am not talking about tren insomnia only. Aas in general.

Mk677 could definitely help you with your sleep. Dose 30 min before bed and it should improve your sleep, even on gear

 

[yates84]

chedapalooza mk 677 requires no pct, it simply magnifies your own gh pulses through natural pathways (ghrelin) it works almost identical to ghrp peptides just no injections! I like to dose mine at night about 30 min before bed. It doesn't really matter how close your last meal is to your mk, you can always have a small scoop of peanut butter or something similar with your dose to aid in absorption. The length of your carderine cycle is up to you, there is no data proving any length of time to be better than the other. I just don't feel comfortable reccomending long cycles on a fairly new and minimally tested product

 

[Weathermark]

AWESOME WRITE UP YATES. Seriously this helped me a lot and I'm gonna use this for my LGD run. But I'm gonna run Nolva instead of that's ok? What dose in pct do you rec for Nolva?

 

[yates84]

AWESOME WRITE UP YATES. Seriously this helped me a lot and I'm gonna use this for my LGD run. But I'm gonna run Nolva instead of that's ok? What dose in pct do you rec for Nolva?

Nolva would be fine, I just like clomid. Dose nolva at 20/10/10 for 3 week pct or 20/20/10/10 for a 4 week pct

 

[Weathermark]

would it be ok if I started eliminate TWO WEEKS INTO CYCLE so I don't have to buy two bottles or should I run it as soon as I start?

 

[yates84]

would it be ok if I started eliminate TWO WEEKS INTO CYCLE so I don't have to buy two bottles or should I run it as soon as I start?

2 weeks would be fine, it takes some time for estrogen to build up anyway

 

[Weathermark]

Ok cool that's what I thought but I wanted to ask someone who def knew lol. One more thing I'm sorry lol but I've read that cycle support isn't needed? I have many bottles so I can run it to be safe.....thanks for your help YATES!!!!

 

[yates84]

Ok cool that's what I thought but I wanted to ask someone who def knew lol. One more thing I'm sorry lol but I've read that cycle support isn't needed? I have many bottles so I can run it to be safe.....thanks for your help YATES!!!!

At the very least you should run some kind of bp control. Cycle support would be your best bet though

 

[Weathermark]

Ok cool thanks again. Super cycle by AMS is what I have, along with some other vitamins. I think I'm gonna log this run. YOU THE MAN!!!!

 

[yates84]

Ok cool thanks again. Super cycle by AMS is what I have, along with some other vitamins. I think I'm gonna log this run. YOU THE MAN!!!!

Log it bro! I will follow along for sure

 

[Weathermark]

Ok awesome. Give me a few weeks. Got most of the $$$$ but still need a few more lol

 

[Weathermark]

Damn I'm blowing you up but hey I wanna be SURE. Your eliminate dosing above....is that (capsules) like 2/2/2 so on so on.....

 

[yates84]

Damn I'm blowing you up but hey I wanna be SURE. Your eliminate dosing above....is that (capsules) like 2/2/2 so on so on.....

Yep. Split dosing 1 cap twice a day. You can go to 3 caps if necessary

 

[Weathermark]

Priced everything out...$188 including shipping!!! CHHHEEEEAAAP for a 3month cycle...4, including pct.....I'm hoping this stuff likes me because I'll run it again for this price...damn. Log coming in the coming weeks, keep an eye out. Thanks again.

 

[mnemotron]

hi,im on day 20 with GW 501516,endurance is very good and i look leaner but seem even my arms are "smaller" than usual.It's possible GW 501516 reduces muscles or is just my immagination?

 

[Joedoubledose]

Imagination, it could just be how you perceive yourself by losing fat and being leaner in the mirror

 

[vujade]

hi,im on day 20 with GW 501516,endurance is very good and i look leaner but seem even my arms are "smaller" than usual.It's possible GW 501516 reduces muscles or is just my immagination?

Also, if you are doing this on a cut, your muscles will be less full then normal because of loss of glycogen while restricting carbs.

 

[yates84]

Also, if you are doing this on a cut, your muscles will be less full then normal because of loss of glycogen while restricting carbs.

^^ this was my first thought as well

 

[Weathermark]

Same thinking here...I deflate LOL

 

[warpyfunch]

Try adding some Ghar1ne. You'll bloat right up, nice and full, haha.

I'm on day 6 at 10mg, up at least 5lbs water and my wedding ring didn't fit this morning.

 

[mnemotron]

Also, if you are doing this on a cut, your muscles will be less full then normal because of loss of glycogen while restricting carbs.

i agree,in fact i'm lifting even more in the gym

 

[pyrobatt]

Also, if you are doing this on a cut, your muscles will be less full then normal because of loss of glycogen while restricting carbs.

Also note some people have

1.more bodyfat than they think which leads to a "full " look
2. Have the kind of fat storage that makes me jealous. You all have that one friend that lifts and tends to only gain fat where it makes him look aesthetically more muscular.

Smaller arms while cutting is not a "bad" thing. Neither is "deflation " after a couple of weeks on a diet.

Continue your cut, get through it, and pound your girlfriend .