warnerve
Well-known member
lol
Powerfull claims
- Thread starter same_old
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lol
BeachPimp
Banned
PowerFull mildly enhances and should be left at that. I've used Pfull inbetween cycles and what do you know after 3 weeks of use...I didn't feel jack off of it. Bloodwork before and at least a month after use is going to have to be made available before I believe the outlandish claims on the USPlabs site.
I love the guy on the Anabolic Pump FAQ that went from about 25% bodyfat to a dry 6% while gaining a lot of lean mass all while "staying natural" on a Anabolic pump supplementation. Did I mention he did it in 7 weeks. Ha :think:
I love the guy on the Anabolic Pump FAQ that went from about 25% bodyfat to a dry 6% while gaining a lot of lean mass all while "staying natural" on a Anabolic pump supplementation. Did I mention he did it in 7 weeks. Ha :think:
BeachPimp
Banned
I think this might be a possibility with extended use. Nobody knows...no bloodwork to prove in anyone's favor.
Guest
Guest
Once references are posted claims are still outlandish, you are difficult to please.
The guy was a former Natural Bodybuilder who let his physique get out of hand. In his return, his diet was perfect and muscle memory played a huge role, but AP did significantly speed the process. He could of returned to that shape in 14 weeks without AP.
ITs hard to please steroid users with natural supplements.
djremix
Active member
heeh
ok i am willing to do some bloodwork before and after.
im repeating almost the same cycle i did last year. SD and PP and i have full results for that including test and estrogen.
im repeating it with AP throughout and powerfull last week and during pct this time.
im just working out some details with my MD so i can shove these tests on the insurance. dont feel like paying $150.
hopefully this will pass over them 2 years in a row
Invalid Link Removed
to be fair. havent noticed anything from AP yet.
but then again i didnt notice anything from powerfull either....untill i actually looked deep at all the subtle differance it made in the quality of life.
more energy, better sleep, less soreness, general mood lift.
and yeah i know this because i noticed all the above decline when my bottle ran out,,,
ok i am willing to do some bloodwork before and after.
im repeating almost the same cycle i did last year. SD and PP and i have full results for that including test and estrogen.
im repeating it with AP throughout and powerfull last week and during pct this time.
im just working out some details with my MD so i can shove these tests on the insurance. dont feel like paying $150.
hopefully this will pass over them 2 years in a row
Invalid Link Removed
to be fair. havent noticed anything from AP yet.
but then again i didnt notice anything from powerfull either....untill i actually looked deep at all the subtle differance it made in the quality of life.
more energy, better sleep, less soreness, general mood lift.
and yeah i know this because i noticed all the above decline when my bottle ran out,,,
same_old
Banned
at what points in the cycle do you plan to get bloodwork?heeh
ok i am willing to do some bloodwork before and after.
im repeating almost the same cycle i did last year. superdrol and PP and i have full results for that including test and estrogen.
im repeating it with AP throughout and powerfull last week and during post cycle therapy this time.
im just working out some details with my MD so i can shove these tests on the insurance. dont feel like paying $150.
hopefully this will pass over them 2 years in a row
and for the record, i think bloodwork of this type (measuring T and E2 during a cycle or even during PCT) is virtually worthless when it comes to testing any of the theories heretofore mentioned about Pfull's MOA and possible suppression.
BeachPimp
Banned
The foundation of your refrences are animal studies.
Why not put all rumors to rest and fund bloodwork for highly reputable board-members that are unbiased and are willing to run Pfull for a month without a plethora of other supplements in conjuction. Show the world that your claims aren't outlandish. I know you don't lack the funds, and I'm sure people would love to see this thing have hard scientific proof backing its supposed claims.
DAdams91982
Board Sponsor
djremix
Active member
ok first was one day after the last day of cycle. second one was day 8 of PCT. last one was 24 hours after last day of pct.
i think these timings pretty much show what my body was going through during the cycle and pct.
and why do u think itll be worthless?
lets say i repeat the above adding in powerfull last week of cycle and throughout pct.
lets say it affects me the same.
i.e. i feel better, bette renergy and mood.
would u say thats worthless info pertaining to the product?
what if the test results are a bit better?
i know if i saw that ill always include powerfull and advise other to.
what exactly is worthless about the above? USPLabs claims may not be quantified exactly but im sure if the above happens they will be further substantiated.
oh wel..
take care :yawn:
DAdams91982
Board Sponsor
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
Is there a reason you have 3 usernames?
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Going over your posts, even the deleted ones I've come to a conclusion. You whine about EVERYTHING and you certainly love Jacob.
Troll somewhere else please.
colkurtz_spf
The horror
Yea!! :dance:
Mulletsoldier
Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
That is hilarious. This guy even went through the work to find diff. pics for his Avatars...lol
slapnuts
New member
Bobo. Another one from the old avant days, along with dsade and a few others I have seen. I rarely posted but have lurked a long time and have become a fan of sorts. :head:
Speaking of those days, manufacturers did not mind questions or debate, but is appears USPlabs might be too defensive. It you look at my posts, I am a huge fan of 3 products (camph, powerfull and cissus). AP not so much. Anyway, it is kind of like religion. If someone cannot question it or they are deemed a heretic, then it makes you wonder. Of course I am already hooked for life on p-full and cissus so it probably matters little. :think:
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
Who says you can't question?
Ah..the ol' days. When there were 10x less companies online...10x less the trolls, 10x less the proxy users, 10x less the fake reviews, 10x less the anonymity.
Considering those factors and the fact that 99% of the people don't even know its going on unless you get to run one of these beautiful boards in which you see to what length people try to go, I would be defensive as hell.
If people don't get the answeres they want, don't buy it. I don't know what else to tell you.
Ah..the ol' days. When there were 10x less companies online...10x less the trolls, 10x less the proxy users, 10x less the fake reviews, 10x less the anonymity.
Considering those factors and the fact that 99% of the people don't even know its going on unless you get to run one of these beautiful boards in which you see to what length people try to go, I would be defensive as hell.
If people don't get the answeres they want, don't buy it. I don't know what else to tell you.
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
This is 4 pages of questions....if its constructive I don't care what people say.
slapnuts
New member
Bobo -
Look at how mulletsoldier interacts and responds, then look at how USPlabs does. I see a stark contrast.
I found USP labs by forum messengers, specifically Nandi (RIP) over at AL. I am just used to companies being challenged and responding like mulletsoldier, not putting the burden of proof on the consumer who is wanting to debate cited research.
Anyway, I am out. I prefer lurking :thumbsup:
Look at how mulletsoldier interacts and responds, then look at how USPlabs does. I see a stark contrast.
I found USP labs by forum messengers, specifically Nandi (RIP) over at AL. I am just used to companies being challenged and responding like mulletsoldier, not putting the burden of proof on the consumer who is wanting to debate cited research.
Anyway, I am out. I prefer lurking :thumbsup:
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
Mullet doesn't own the company and its not his reputation, company and ethics that are called into question. I'm sure he cares but its not the same. I've been called every name in the book but the people that I deal with everyday know my character, not some anonymous user with a chip on his shoulder.
Its not easy when you are constantly attacked simply because you've made some good products. Ask any company on here...they've all had their battles over pure BS at times. There is a reason why they want reps...it gets old, fast.
"But this is the business we have chosen!"
Nobody is perfect, everyone will get frustrated, everyone has emotions that get the best of them.
If a companies products don't work, it will reflect in repeat buyers and they will suffer. Thats how it works.
Its not easy when you are constantly attacked simply because you've made some good products. Ask any company on here...they've all had their battles over pure BS at times. There is a reason why they want reps...it gets old, fast.
"But this is the business we have chosen!"
Nobody is perfect, everyone will get frustrated, everyone has emotions that get the best of them.
If a companies products don't work, it will reflect in repeat buyers and they will suffer. Thats how it works.
Mulletsoldier
Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
This is Jacob's company, his work, and his life. It is as if someone were to question your child's ability in something. If you have children, you would respond vehemently, as you know your child can do what you have said. I respond this way because I have a level of detachment which allows me to. In keeping with the child analogy, I am merely the Uncle, or lost cousin
bird4three
New member
Mullet, you are abolsutely right in your assesment, but I think the point is that this comes off unprofessional.
If you own a supplement company and are passionate about it (protect it like your child), you still cannot allow yourself to get defensive/annoyed by your customers. Especially customers who openly support your business, but seek clarification (like the majority of this thread). This is the case in virtually any profession.
In my opinion, USP Labs gets way too defensive......QUICKLY!
Just my opinion (and Jacob will probably respond to this post with "then don't buy it" - haha).
Guest
Guest
I'm not sure if you have followed the complete "questioning" process.
The supplement was questioned in the Nutraplanet forum. I answered the questions. After I answered the questions, the "forum Media" was not satisfied with 2 key references done in VIVO that means not in rats.
The exact same question from the NutraPlanet forum is posted in the USPLabs forum. In response, the same references are posted. To further the case, Mullet slams a good case and point for PowerFULL with referenced research.
If my attempts to answer questions seem defensive, please listen to mullet, but either or, you got a pretty well defined answer.
PowerFULL has been in circulation for over a year without a write up. A write up surfaces after a year of observation, in vivo research, and overwhelming postive consumer feedback, and the blasphemes cries ring so loud that even Bobo's ears are ringing and jayhwak eats another snickers bar.
After listening to Mullets response on PowerFULL, and the positive consumer feedback with some pretty impressive in VIVO research that means done in HUMANS. You still feel the supplement is worthless or Hyped and not worth the 34.99 for a month supply.
The simpliest smartest conclusion is do not purchase the supplement.
I believe PowerFULL has stood the test of Time as a supplement.
take care
bird4three
New member
I have followed the whole thing. I completely understand why people question you (you make really bold statements), and I do not understand why you get defensive.
I LIKE USP LABS PRODUCTS.....just do not agree with the marketing or your attitude with customers who question.
hahahahahaha.....fantastic.
Guest
Guest
I'm a consumer oriented company please do not lose that fact. USPlabs has grown PRIMARILY because we treat each consumer with the utmost respect and innovating supplements that surpass expectations.
The 223% and 3iu claim is backed by VIVO research so call it bold or outlandish but its real. You may call it phantom but read the references and it comes to life or better yet try it for yourself, or just to muse, do not try it.:lol:
Guest
Guest
Snicker laced powerFULL comming soon!
Jayhawkk
Legend
Poison: Thanks for the vote of confidence but unfortunately it really isn't that easy. For one, to be legit we would have to be off of anything else that may interfere with the results which would be hard this time of year when people are usually working for the spring/summer look(read: already on several supps). Another issue would be cost and goals. Bobo probably has to foot his own insurance and probably Crowler as well. I have mine through my job but even with that if it isn't doc specifically ordered it comes out of pocket.
Plus, while you may believe our results, there will be others that say Bobo is doing it for his business and i'm doing it for free product and Crowler is doing it for his love triangle fetishes with Jacob and Dsade.
Plus, while you may believe our results, there will be others that say Bobo is doing it for his business and i'm doing it for free product and Crowler is doing it for his love triangle fetishes with Jacob and Dsade.
Guest
Guest
Invalid Link Removed
Is the above not credible? Before I developed supplements, I consumed supplements and believe it or not before the invention of internet forums. I am a firm believer that Consumer feedback sales much more supplements. This is the exact reason that I use logs and testimonials as a primary form of advertising, and the vivo research is just iceing on the cake.
On AM, PowerFULL has been reviewed by many respected members.
USPlabs supplements or any supplement company will never please entirely. My moto is "make a sale to recruit a consumer and not find a consumer to make a sale."
I'm not an expert sales person or a versed marketing guru. I'm learning skills and beginning to recruit skills into my company. There is only 1 reason why I'm able to recruit (employ) skills and that's because I have a great products.
take care
Mulletsoldier
Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
Basically he is speaking of my Nun Chuck skills
Guest
Guest
Not to mention that diet has be be constant so that singles you out already...:duel:
In truth, your diet would have to be exactly the same and eaten at the same time. Your training would have to be exactly the same.
poison
Board Sponsor
Sure, people sleep better, and feel 'something' while on. Many love it.
You call this proof that it raises test and HGH like 3iu?
OK.
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
He said credible, not proof.
Poison do you know what 3iu's of GH feels like?
If it isn't the science, its the personality...if its not the personality its the customer service....
I assume given a couple years everyone will hate everyone because of the six degrees of seperation between Jacob and USP.
I love your products but because my mother's cousin's nephews neighbor walked Jacob's dog and he pissed on my lawn, I really don't like USP anymore.
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
JohnnyBGood
Member
He probably gets defensive because he takes pride in his product, an indication that he truly believes in the integrity of his successful product. I am still finishing my last bottle of the old Powerfull, which is an excellent product in my opinion. Can't wait to try the new stuff.
bird4three
New member
Totally agree.
We will never see eye-to-eye on the marketing side of it (I prefer to underhype and over-deliver), but I will say, in ANY profession, do not get defensive with your customers. It does not come across like "pride for the company", it comes off as "insecure" (and you have no reason to be insecure).
bird4three
New member
I am not Poison, but I do know what 3iu's of GH feel like, and though I like Powerfull, it is not the same (not close).
Bobo, I have seen you get into 3 page arguments over the GI of a particular carb (not an insult, I love your insight), but you mock people questioning a natural supp that states it is the equivalent of 3iu's of GH? I realize they are a sponsor of the board, but I am surprised you do not at least appreciate the reasons behind the skepticism.
In fact, even people that love USP Labs (I really like 2 of their products) should like this thread....it is debating the science and mechanisms of the product.
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
That's because GH tends to STAY in the system for MUCH longer. That doesnt mean certain supplements can raise GH, especially basal levels, to a higher level for a shorter period of time.
Stating they are a sponsor of this board and insinuating that I am protecting them because they pay me is walking a fine line of saying my opinions are bought. I suggest you rethink that strategy considering I have gone against them MYSELF on this very board.
And you are right I do get into arguments about carb sources, especially ones sold on this site. So who am I protecting now? The point being is I know when the data ends and the opinions have to start based on your OWN conclusions. I don't say NP, True Protein or whoever sells WMS are scammers, frauds, liars, etc..because I don't agree with a product. I don't create 3 usernames to purposely try to discredit them.
Appreciate? How many times do I have to say questioning is fine for you to get it through your skull. Your problem is they give an answer YOU don't like then proceed to question their ethics, marketing, personality and everything else about them because YOU aren't getting double blind placebo studies with blood work.
Supplement companies market products that an extrapolation of studies form various sources. ALL companies do this. ALL companies don't have "proof".
YOU aren't debating anything anymore. You are making statements about what you like about the company.
"I LIKE USP LABS PRODUCTS.....just do not agree with the marketing or your attitude with customers who question."
And I'm not debating the science either because I already know the answers. USPLabs is doing what every supplement company out there does, extrapolate studies and base a conclusion off of scientific questions that CAN'T be answered because double blind placebo controlled studies aren't funded for bodybuilders.
You can either accept it, or not. You can debate until you are blue in the face and this thread was 4 pages long because of it but when you start saying his personality or the way he markets isn't to your liking then the debate has ended. They gave you answers, if you don't like them then that is your problem. Don't buy it, but I hope you hold those same standards to every company out there or is it just selective because people don't like him getting defensive about accusations about his company.
I personally don't think saying it raises GH is a big deal. GH is completely overrated anyway. Arginine/Lysine raise GH...big deal.
bird4three
New member
Did not mean to imply that, but I can see I wrote it poorly. My point was the main contributers in this post (not the couple of guys who are just haters) were questioning things like I have seen you do in the past. It was a great thread. I am not sure why you then seemed to mock them.
Again, my point was not calling out your ethics, but to point out that people are questioning science....something you do very well. I thought you would embrace that.
I never debated anything in this thread, but I did appreciate the debate others were having. I was just making a point. To me it is all connected. If USP simply eased up on the hype, they wouldn't be held to such scrutiny.
I understand they cannot do a double blind study.....THEN DON'T MAKE OUTLANDISH CLAIMS. That was my point.
Instead of "don't buy it", why not "try to learn about the company/product and try to make eductated decisions about what you are putting in your body".
To me, that is what this board is about.
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
out·land·ish
–adjective
1. freakishly or grotesquely strange or odd, as appearance, dress, objects, ideas, or practices; bizarre: outlandish clothes; outlandish questions.
2. having a foreign appearance.
3. remote from civilized areas; out-of the-way: an outlandish settlement.
4. Archaic. foreign; alien.
Don't see how this applies. If you mean the claim is stretching the data provided, then you are correct but that's almost every supplement and has been acknowledged.
The claims he makes have some basis with supporting studies. Whether you think it proof or not is subjective but saying they are outlandish and have no basis is quite "outlandish".
Once again, its not the science you are criticizing, its the public relations aspect. His forum is not for criticizing his character or how he runs his business.
The science has been debated for 4 pages yet people always want to bring up a point about why questioning isn't allowed. The thread is 4 pages long because it IS allowed but this isn't anyone editorial page about how people should conduct their business.
As I have learned with personal experience, the further you veer away form the main points and start to get into mud slinging and questioning ethics, the less people you effect with your original point.
I never mocked anyone who questioned the scientific aspect. I didn't even enter this discussion until someone obviously had an agenda.
PumpingIron
Well-known member
Why is it wrong to make a personal statement about someone's business practices? (i.e., public relations, marketing, etc.)
bird4three
New member
What is more "freakishly strange"? Saying.....
A) Powerfull is like 3iu's of GH, or
B) staing the above is outlandish?
I vote A, but I see your point ;-)
This thread talked about quite a bit things, and I am not the one who brought up the marketing tactics.
I am not criticizing his character, but I definitely dislike the way he markets.....so I will stop contributing.
Fair enough. I guess I was mistaken.
same_old
Banned
the 221% increase in GH seen in the study was due to 500mg of pharmaceutical L-dopa, not PowerFull. there is certainly a difference (but i have no idea what the difference is, given that i dont know anything about Powerfull besides that it contains some amount of extracted MP)
i think this thread/issue brings to light an ever-more-common problem with supplement sales...the utter lack of divulgence on the part of the manufacturers makes it virtually impossible to properly research a novel supplement's actions and risks. i think it's a serious concern. there is very little a manufacturer cant do with respect to ingredients...as long as it isnt scheduled, it's viable. understand i am not aligning myself with the pharmaceutical industry and advocating illegalization of all non-FDA approved substances, because lord knows the FDA is as crooked as any of them, and routinely makes "mistakes" with respect to product safety...i'm just not sure that a product that is utterly untested and unresearched in humans and has not demonstrated a safety profile of any sort should be made available. it's probably an unpopular idea here (and read carefully - i am not asserting a position outright, i am just exploring it out loud)
and i personally dont think this was 4 pages of questions and criticisms, contrary to Bobo's claim....and even if it was, i dont think that would be uncalled for. we could ask these questions in emails, but the community wouldnt benefit. Bobo, if you would AGAIN like me to move the thread elsewhere, let me know
perhaps the "supplement articles" forum? i dont know where you think this sort of thing belongs.- Status