Powerfull claims

[Enigma76]

** open question to the board - the only study posted thus far showing a human response to MP, the active in PowerFull, was done on parkinson's patients, who routinely demonstrate a different response to prolactin and growth hormone promoting drugs. is there some kind of pattern, such that we could possibly say "parkinson's patients exhibit decreased growth hormone response to stimuli (say, baclofen, arginine, GHRP-6, etc) compared to normal subjects." which would certainly help us infer some results from the parkinson's study. i would research this but i just dont have time...

Interesting question. I havent really looked into it, but I know that l-dopa's GH releasing effects are different for patients with different pituitary diseases (ie acromegaly).

This study might help you out.


Effect of oral administration of L-dopa on the plasma levels of growth hormone-releasing hormone (GHRH) in normal subjects and patients with various endocrine and metabolic diseases]
[Article in Japanese]

* Mitsuhashi S,
* Yamasaki R,
* Miyazaki S,
* Saito H,
* Saito S.

First Department of Internal Medicine, School of Medicine, University of Tokushima, Japan.

The responses of plasma growth hormone-releasing hormone (GHRH) and growth hormone (GH) to oral administration of L-dopa were studied in normal subjects and patients with various endocrine and metabolic diseases to clarify the pathophysiological role of the GHRH-GH axis. In normal subjects, the plasma GHRH concentration was increased from the basal value of 9.8 +/- 1.4 pg/ml (mean +/- SE) to 34.8 +/- 3.1 pg/ml at 30 approximately 90 min after oral administration of 500 mg L-dopa, followed by a rise of GH release (plasma GH level from less than 1 ng/ml to 21.7 +/- 4.7 ng/ml) in most cases, indicating that L-dopa stimulates GH secretion via hypothalamic GHRH. On L-dopa administration, no apparent increases in both plasma GHRH and GH concentrations were observed in patients with hypothalamic hypopituitarism, whereas GHRH administration induced almost normal GH response. In patients with acromegaly, the plasma levels of GHRH remained stationary after the L-dopa administration and did not correlate with plasma GH levels. In subjects with simple obesity, the responses of plasma GHRH (peak 13.2 +/- 1.2 pg/ml) and GH (peak 4.3 +/- 1.7 ng/ml) to L-dopa were significantly lower than those in normal subjects (p less than 0.01). In patients with primary hypothyroidism, peak levels of plasma GHRH (12.6 +/- 1.3 pg/ml) and GH (2.4 +/- 0.6 ng/ml) were significantly lower than those in normal subjects (p less than 0.01). In patients with non-insulin dependent diabetes mellitus (NIDDM), the responses of GHRH and GH were divided into 2 groups; in the responder the peak values of GHRH and GH were 19.4 +/- 8.6 pg/ml and 12.2 +/- 1.4 ng/ml and in the low or non responder 14.7 +/- 1.5 pg/ml and 2.0 +/- 0.6 ng/ml, respectively. Between both groups, there was a significant difference in the values of fasting blood sugar and HbA1 and mean suffering period. These findings suggest that GH secretion evoked by the L-dopa administration is induced by GHRH released from the hypothalamus, and impairment of GH secretion associated with simple obesity, primary hypothyroidism, or NIDDM may be in part attributed to insufficiency of GHRH release from the hypothalamus, and indicate that L-dopa test is clinically useful for evaluating the ability of intrinsic GHRH release in such diseased states.

PMID: 3123283 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]




Of course, it cannot be directly extrapolated to mucuna pruriens...indirectly extrapolated, sure, but not directly. Since we know that an unconcentrated MP mixture does have large amounts of l-dopa, we can at least figure that MP will have similar effects to l-dopa in normal people. What exact numbers, etc, we can not say.

 

[djremix]

so can we say powerfull + selegiline = great synergy?

or will it just put you to sleep quickly?

 

[Dwight Schrute]

when did i ask for these things?? please tell me.

i asked for DATA only - whatever was available to back up their claims, and perhaps shed light on the MOA. nowhere (that i recall writing or even thinking) did i ask for ANY assurances that this product is safe, or even that it works for that matter. i dont ask that the burden be placed on the developer, just that if no accountability is acknowledged, that i may ask reasonable questions to try and protect myself.

and for the record - the pharm industry DOES provide something of a reassurance, inasmuch as if their product permanently damages you (see Vioxx, Phen-Fen, thalitamide (sp?), etc), you can sue them and usually win. is this practice honorable and reasonable? i dunno, that's a longer discussion.

You don't have to ask for the changes. Thats the beauty of it. I can easily bring up the fact that there is no quality control in this industry and try to cast doubt on a product without ever asking the question directly. I can shout aloud how we no guarantees, no protection, no reassurances without ever mentioning the product to cast doubt on such product or its quality.

And no, the pharm industry does NOT have reassurances, laywers do for those who react badly. The same reassurances that people who use supplements have (usnic acid anyone?)

would you agree that we know alot more about 1-Test now than we did then? of course...and it has nothing to do with lab results or levator ani size...it's just understanding of androgen action, inferences drawn from other similar steroids with decades of user feedback, and use of the substance itself shared on forums like this. what more can a person expect to know? and that's all i am trying to acquire with Pfull - understanding. i dont know why it's somehow twisted into this hidden agenda witchhunt where everyone talks about everything else but that which matters - the drug, how it works, and how to best use it.

If you have more understanding its because people we're guinea pigs on a substance that has very little data. A substance that isn't even in the same ballpark as this.

I didn't see many objections when people we're using it and the "700% more anabolic than testosterone" was all over the place. People knew it worked so I guess its ok then. People only have selective outrage. Only now its morphed into "we know it works, but we still will accuse you of just about anything because you don't know the answers to everything".

Or outrage when THEY aren't selling it.

Its pretty obvious that they don't know the answers to all the questions. It seems some people just can't accept that.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

i dont know why it's somehow twisted into this hidden agenda witchhunt where everyone talks about everything else but that which matters - the drug, how it works, and how to best use it.

Multiple usernames under one IP bashing one company cast doubt.

You have 4 usernames yourself. Will people now doubt your opinion?

Its not a nice and friendly game people play at times espeically when past usernames have a pattern. Know what I mean?

 

[PumpingIron]

I only have one user name...:wave:

Can we move this back to the scientific discussion...i liked reading that part...

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Do it in the supplement discussion forum. This one has been a bit...tainted. When even the members ask for it to be closed....its pretty bad.