OTC Hormone Chart

JBerto said:
:thumbsup:
BTW, MaxLMG and Propadrol are progestins too, but i don't know whats the target hormone of that PHs. Anybody knows?
Propadrol: 12-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-diene (& 3-OHAT)
MaxLMG: 13-ethyl-3methoxygona-2, 5(10)-dien-17-one
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Only one doubt: MaxLMG, Propadrol, M1P, etc; are progestins or progesterone based AAS?
I have read somewhere that progestins are AAS based in testosterone but they can bind to the PR, but others like M1P are based in progesterone and acts as an anti-androgenic, but I don't think that propadrol or maxlmg are anti-androgenic...
 
UNX said:
Only one doubt: MaxLMG, Propadrol, M1P, etc; are progestins or progesterone based AAS?
I have read somewhere that progestins are AAS based in testosterone but they can bind to the PR, but others like M1P are based in progesterone and acts as an anti-androgenic, but I don't think that propadrol or maxlmg are anti-androgenic...
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Progestins are nearly identical in structure to testosterone and/or androgens. Basically all AAS have some level of activity at all three primary sex receptors (PR, AR, & ER) even if it's minimal. Since early progestins had androgenic activity, over the years there's been more effort to make progestins that have no androgenic activity at all since their purpose is female birth control.

Also vice versa as researchers have been trying to perfect an androgen which has no activity as the PR or ER, which would be considered a SARM. Many progestins act as anti-androgens, and even many progestins that have AR activity act as anti-androgens at high doses. But progesterone itself can act as a precursor to testosterone. Progestins also typically stimulate appetite & have mild anabolic effects.

Exactly where Propadrol & Maxlmg fit in the progestin ranks, it's hard to tell being grey area chemicals without having clinical research. Max LMG is supposed to be very closely related to the abortion pill Mifepristone - which is an anti-androgen. But all there is to go by is the manufacture claims & peoples experiences.
 
Ziquor said:
Exactly where Propadrol & Maxlmg fit in the progestin ranks, it's hard to tell being grey area chemicals without having clinical research. Max LMG is supposed to be very closely related to the abortion pill Mifepristone - which is an anti-androgen. But all there is to go by is the manufacture claims & peoples experiences.
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the things we take just to add 2 or 3 pounds of muscle...jesus:fool2:
 
Progestins bother me also or more specifically my nipples. :D
 
EasyEJL said:
i have 2 bottles of revolt here, planned to run it with epi to try and keep dry nips
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Actually I'd be interested in seeing that stack. Trauma1 was going to run the same thing but I think he may just be doing Havoc now.
 
we'll see where my next couple months lands me
wasn't planning on another cycle till thanksgiving, and even then not sure what I was going to do
 
Man if people would read this post first, they could very well be halfway to a chemistry degree and understand some of the more common hormones.... but still probably forget how to properly take them lol.
 
Z, this is a top notch post. This will save a lot of people tons of time, and save a LOT of general questions.

I think it is great you added all the banned stuff because it isn't uncommon at all when you do a search to bring up great feedback on products that no longer exist (in theory).

Top notch work brother. Know it is appreciated.
 
kraftkid said:
Z, this is a top notch post. This will save a lot of people tons of time, and save a LOT of general questions.

I think it is great you added all the banned stuff because it isn't uncommon at all when you do a search to bring up great feedback on products that no longer exist (in theory).

Top notch work brother. Know it is appreciated.
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Thanks guys appreciate the positive feedback. Mass_69 added much of the older banned hormone data :thumbsup:

Funny thing is when I originally made this I did so mainly for my own reference but I suppose some people liked it :)
 
kraftkid said:
Now on to the next topics.

1. Pre-On Cycle Sides and Support Supps and
2. PCT for Dummies

I'm surprised there isn't a PCT sticky, etc in that forum....
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If anyone has any tips on how to better structure that 1st post, or make it a bit neater looking let me know :thumbsup:
 
Ziquor said:
Thanks J! I can't quite remember exactly & I'm feelin too lazy to search after today, but when you ran Halo I know you had solid gains but did you track BF before/after?
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I did, I did :head: Check my log :D

Initial: 194.4 at 16%
Final: 202.6 at 13.7%

Ziq, thanks for giving me a migraine and killing the last 40minutes of my evening with this thread :nutkick:

I'm surprised there's not more talk about 4oht. Sigh

Edit: btw Ziq, have you seen the sticky on BN? It's a pretty good list too, but I think it focuses more on dosages and outcomes. Not sure if it applies, but it's a good read nonetheless.
 
celc5 said:
I did, I did :head: Check my log :D

Initial: 194.4 at 16%
Final: 202.6 at 13.7%

Ziq, thanks for giving me a migraine and killing the last 40minutes of my evening with this thread :nutkick:

I'm surprised there's not more talk about 4oht. Sigh

Edit: btw Ziq, have you seen the sticky on BN? It's a pretty good list too, but I think it focuses more on dosages and outcomes. Not sure if it applies, but it's a good read nonetheless.
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At the time of that post I forgot about your lovely logs Celc as I believe you were on your hiatus :thumbsup:

-2.3% +8.2 pounds is awesome - not to mention almost exactly the same as me. I'll have to check out the other to see if it gives me any ideas how to improve this.
 
Noob subbed.

Currently plodding through this thread and the various other fora offered here.

Great resource for those of us new to all of this! Trying to learn all I can before jumping in a few months so as not to get my ass in a bind.

As my folks used to say "A hard head makes a soft behind".

:head:
 
Kgonz said:
Noob subbed.

Currently plodding through this thread and the various other fora offered here.

Great resource for those of us new to all of this! Trying to learn all I can before jumping in a few months so as not to get my ass in a bind.

As my folks used to say "A hard head makes a soft behind".

:head:
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Welcome - nice to see someone researching before they jump :thumbsup:



EasyEJL said:
I found ALRI Mega TRN at a reasonable price. can't decide whether to buy it or not :)
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Damn EZ you always have the hook-up to great sources. I seen a site a few weeks ago that was advertising AX Superdrol & said 'hurry only a few bottles left' but the price was $250 per bottle :think:
 
Thanks to this thread, i can finally look at the terrible (to me) 5a compounds. I ran SD and M-Drol and didn't know about the 5a dht conversion. Luckily I also ran halodrol before and it's not one. And based on this , it looks like Tren Xtreme is a good bet when concerned about hairline. So i will probably stick with it and halo-drol and their clones. Thanks again!
 
From my understanding SD is 5a reduced, therefore can't convert to DHT. Same with Xtreme Tren - also 5a reduced.
 
Anybody have any experience with this monster (Pharma Resources Superplexx II )? If its real wouldn't this be the strongest and most toxic?
 
Sorry for the basic question, but is M1,4AD still available? I didn't come across any products from major PH manufacturers that contain this ingredient.
Thanks in advance
 
Sub7 said:
Sorry for the basic question, but is M1,4AD still available? I didn't come across any products from major PH manufacturers that contain this ingredient.
Thanks in advance
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I think there are two companies still making it. One of them being a mixture of 2.

Anabolic Formulations M1, 4AD
Mayhem by BCS Labs
XS Muscle Supplements (EQ-T)2
 
So this stuff converts to Dianabol, is not illegal yet only two very obscure companies make it? What gives? Is the raw material very expensive? If one found a legit product, wouldn't this be among the best mass stacks when combined with a dry compound?

confused///
 
Sub7 said:
So this stuff converts to Dianabol, is not illegal yet only two very obscure companies make it? What gives? Is the raw material very expensive? If one found a legit product, wouldn't this be among the best mass stacks when combined with a dry compound?

confused///
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The if you found a legit product is a big if. It also has intrinsic activity, so taking it isn't identical to taking dbol. And it is illegal, just not specifically banned by name. Its sold as a "supplement" under the DSHEA, but it doesn't comply with the definition of a supplement. So they continue to sell it until the FDA sends them a letter asking them to prove that it is compliant, at which point they stop
 
Great list thanks man
 
So I'm wondering if anybody has ran any of these in conjunction with two other PH compounds. let's say for example running Superdrol with Pheraplex along with Ergo max? Now I have ran all of these before, and since I'm running OTC supps for the next month or two I'm considering trying out pro hormones again. I know that superdrol is pretty heavy on the HPTA and actually had pretty strong negative effects on....hmm how do I put this...sexual functions when I last used it. The reason I'm considering going so strong with PH's is because I have in the past ran a cycle and I'm tryig to get back the weight that was lost.

Superdrol
Phera-Plex
ErgoMAX
NovedexXT- to keep natural levels high
Liver Detox
I already have liquid nolvadex on hand, along with Letrozole if needed.
When coming off I'd stack Animal Stak with Novedex, along with double doses of tribulus and ZMA.

I am new to this site so please bear with me here, though I do know a decent amount when it comes to AAS, prohormones and OTC drugs are not my strong points. So if I could be told what types of negative sides and what type of gains I would be getting from a stack like this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance!

Gio
 
Gio32 said:
So I'm wondering if anybody has ran any of these in conjunction with two other PH compounds. let's say for example running Superdrol with Pheraplex along with Ergo max? Now I have ran all of these before, and since I'm running OTC supps for the next month or two I'm considering trying out pro hormones again. I know that superdrol is pretty heavy on the HPTA and actually had pretty strong negative effects on....hmm how do I put this...sexual functions when I last used it. The reason I'm considering going so strong with PH's is because I have in the past ran a cycle and I'm tryig to get back the weight that was lost.

Superdrol
Phera-Plex
ErgoMAX
NovedexXT- to keep natural levels high
Liver Detox
I already have liquid nolvadex on hand, along with Letrozole if needed.
When coming off I'd stack Animal Stak with Novedex, along with double doses of tribulus and ZMA.

I am new to this site so please bear with me here, though I do know a decent amount when it comes to AAS, prohormones and OTC drugs are not my strong points. So if I could be told what types of negative sides and what type of gains I would be getting from a stack like this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance!

Gio
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NovedexXT (ATD) will certainly not prevent HPTA shutdown while on this cycle.
 
Knowbull said:
OK, what in your opinion will help? Just curious as to your point of view.
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I prefer 3on/4off or even 2on/5off pulsing to prevent/minimize HPTA shutdown.
But as far as chemically preventing shutdown, HCG is the only solution I'm aware of. But I did hear Primordial Performance was touting the 7,8-benzoflavone in their Sustain Alpha as a possible legal HCG alternative. I don't know how effective it is...
 
Thanks for that, I think that low dosing, short cycling and the intelligent use of supports as needed can off set shut-down. Primordial does have more than one good product.
 
ImJ2x said:
I prefer 3on/4off or even 2on/5off pulsing to prevent/minimize HPTA shutdown.
But as far as chemically preventing shutdown, HCG is the only solution I'm aware of. But I did hear Primordial Performance was touting the 7,8-benzoflavone in their Sustain Alpha as a possible legal HCG alternative. I don't know how effective it is...
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Do you have success with pulsing only 2 times per week?
 
Some corrections:

All of these are "steroids" in the sense that they are actives and can only convert to something weaker (using your definition):

Max LMG - Not a prohormone

Orastan A - Not a prohormone

Orastan E - Not a prohormone

Methoxy-TRN - Not a prohormone

Methoxy-Test - Not a prohormone

Other than that, looks pretty good.
 
LegalGear said:
Some corrections:

All of these are "steroids" in the sense that they are actives and can only convert to something weaker (using your definition):

Max LMG - Not a prohormone

Orastan A - Not a prohormone

Orastan E - Not a prohormone

Methoxy-TRN - Not a prohormone

Methoxy-Test - Not a prohormone

Other than that, looks pretty good.
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Correct, except I'm not sure anyone is certain about the methoxys, unless Eric knows something... Invalid Link Removed
 
mcgeier said:
Do you have success with pulsing only 2 times per week?
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I hate to even answer that question anymore, because I'm tired of arguing with all the doubters. But if you promise not to tell anyone, the answer is...
yes
 
ImJ2x said:
I hate to even answer that question anymore, because I'm tired of arguing with all the doubters. But if you promise not to tell anyone, the answer is...
yes
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My experience has been that pulsing a minimum of 3x a week has produced appreciable gains and negligible shut-down. However, age and endogenous androgen levels are a determining factor as to whether its worth it to ingest such small amounts. JMO
 
No possible way they are 17b Methoxy. 3mg is the dose and a 17b Methoxy would be weaker than straight test or straight tren which orally needs at least 100mg to be effective each day. So, that is out. 17a Methoxy I could buy...
 
Knowbull said:
My experience has been that pulsing a minimum of 3x a week has produced appreciable gains and negligible shut-down. However, age and endogenous androgen levels are a determining factor as to whether its worth it to ingest such small amounts. JMO
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I think the real trick is to add the exogenous hormones only when most beneficial. Which is immediately before you start your workout (to lift bigger weights), and immediately after your workout (to build bigger muscles). And avoid using them the rest of the time, when they probably do more harm than good.
[This discussion should probably take place in the pulsing thread, huh?]
 
LegalGear said:
No possible way they are 17b Methoxy. 3mg is the dose and a 17b Methoxy would be weaker than straight test or straight tren which orally needs at least 100mg to be effective each day. So, that is out. 17a Methoxy I could buy...
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I thought in Vidas book he mentioned a Trenbolone with a 17ß methoxy bound instead of a 17ß hydroxa. It has got an anabolic/androgenic ratio of 2000/2000. But Iam not sure.
 
ImJ2x said:
I think the real trick is to add the exogenous hormones only when most beneficial. Which is immediately before you start your workout (to lift bigger weights), and immediately after your workout (to build bigger muscles). And avoid using them the rest of the time, when they probably do more harm than good.
[This discussion should probably take place in the pulsing thread, huh?]
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I agree on all points, in order to augment existi ng, naturally won gains.
 
I'll look, but that doesn't mean it is orally active. This monstrosity was dosed at 3mg, which is Methyl Tren levels (17aMethylTrenbolone)
 
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