Oral conversion of fina pellets

Jasen said:
Tren is very toxic I used tren e and went up to 1000mg a wk for 2.5 wks to see of te myth is right of tren effects ur kidneys.... My ankles doublespeak in size and I have a huge body but I have small ankles. Also my piss was dark on 3gallons of water. Tren is rough best way to explain using tren is like when spiderman became venom, u get stronger everything gets stronger not just strength. But you lose urself in the drug like spiderman did when he put on the venom. I am strong minded so I had little problems but I had weak minded friends who never returned to their old selfs
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tren is bad IMO, the most that should be used is 50mg EOD of ace, so if sides occur, it can clear within 3-4 days...........
 
PVL said:
where did you get the idea it was me? lol! dude i would blast and cruise back in the day.........here is an example.........

tren ace 100mg EOD, test enan 250mg EOD, EQ 200mg EOD

tren taken for 4 week kicker
test run for 16 weeks at that dose, same with EQ

i would run tren ace one to 2 months on, 2 months off, repeat..........taking letro, arim and HCG every 4 months for 2-3 weeks

anavar 40 mg a day, split dose am and pm
dbol split dose 60mg, am and PM

i would run the var for the weeks after tren use, and dbol as well..........

you gotta do what you gotta do to get huge man, keepin up with the joneses...........

i was 275-280 at 13-15% eating 7k-8k cals a day and around 500g of protein.............

stick around some top level national guys wanting a pro card............their doses make mine look like childs play, lol
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You were 275-280 and now your 240 with a target weight of 270? Either you are lazy and don't care about updating your stats, or you are lieing and trying to impress someone that doesn't care. 280 lbs at 6'2" and 13% body fat is what Arnold was in his prime in the off season. You have no Avi pic to prove anything you have said. I'm sorry, and no offense, but I have a really hard time believing anything you say. In fact, I can't even believe I'm wasting my time even responding to this nonsense.
 
Okay how about this then..

Can anyone please explain exactly how it is toxic to the liver when its being injected and to what level of toxicity is to be expected?

Or for that matter please explain why it would be considered toxic when tren is taken orally?
 
JudoJosh said:
Okay how about this then..

Can anyone please explain exactly how it is toxic to the liver when its being injected and to what level of toxicity is to be expected?

Or for that matter please explain why it would be considered toxic when tren is taken orally?
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Ok now I know Im argueing with sumone that has no business playing with injectables. Dood all steroids are converted in the liver, injs usually take a pass or 2, and orals 2-4 passes, methyls need a lot more werk to be converted in your liver, hence why we all say to only run so much for so long.


What level of toxicity is entirely up to the user, as they adjust their doses, 400 mgs a week of tren ACE may cripple one and barely have an effect on another. its all about know yourself and self experimentation, based off similars types of peoples real world experiences.
 
lyfespan said:
Ok now I know Im argueing with sumone that has no business playing with injectables. Dood all steroids are converted in the liver, injs usually take a pass or 2, and orals 2-4 passes, methyls need a lot more werk to be converted in your liver, hence why we all say to only run so much for so long.


What level of toxicity is entirely up to the user, as they adjust their doses, 400 mgs a week of tren ACE may cripple one and barely have an effect on another. its all about know yourself and self experimentation, based off similars types of peoples real world experiences.
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thank you, i honestly think most of these guys are talking out of their ass..........and never taken AAS just PHs............

i mean you need a good connect, and if they are all about PHs then they dont have a connect at ALL!! lol
 
lyfespan said:
Dood all steroids are converted in the liver, injs usually take a pass or 2, and orals 2-4 passes, methyls need a lot more werk to be converted in your liver,
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Im confused...
What does injectable testosterone 'convert' to in the liver?
 
lyfespan said:
Ok now I know Im argueing with sumone that has no business playing with injectables. Dood all steroids are converted in the liver,
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no they dont

lyfespan said:
injs usually take a pass or 2, and orals 2-4 passes, methyls need a lot more werk to be converted in your liver, hence why we all say to only run so much for so long.
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Oral tren would pose toxicity risk due to it being alkylated in the 17th position.

lyfespan said:
What level of toxicity is entirely up to the user, as they adjust their doses, 400 mgs a week of tren ACE may cripple one and barely have an effect on another. its all about know yourself and self experimentation, based off similars types of peoples real world experiences.
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Can somewhat agree with this portion of your post. The amount taken and length of time will certainly contribute towards increased toxicity but injectable tren on its own, yes can be toxic but the toxicity is greatly over exaggerated. There is a theory that the elevated enzymes are actually a result of the benzyl alcohol and not the tren itself. But even then this is just a theory as BA as the evidence of BA toxicity comes from trials using absurd amounts. All and all injected tren when used reasonably (In regards to dos amount and length if use) poses very minimal toxicity. There is nothing that I no of that suggest otherwise other then the occasional anecdotal report which is usually sensationalized and/or the result of abuse or stacking with other AAS
 
Matthersby said:
Im confused...
What does injectable testosterone 'convert' to in the liver?
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Your not confused. He is

lyfespan said:
it doesnt convert to anything unless body needs it too, but lets see there aromatization, theres the whole 5a conversion to DHT.... shal I continue
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Tren does not aromatize nor will it convert to DHT (although it does bind strongly with the androgen receptor within skeletal muscle cells, which can cause androgenic traits to appear ( ie: hair loss) but no DHT conversion takes place
 
JudoJosh said:
Your not confused. He is



Tren does not aromatize nor will it convert to DHT (although it does bind strongly with the androgen receptor within skeletal muscle cells, which can cause androgenic traits to appear ( ie: hair loss) but no DHT conversion takes place
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your lost, Mattersby question wuz What does inj. Test convert to in the liver
 
lyfespan said:
your lost, Mattersby question wuz What does inj. Test convert to in the liver
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Yes and it was a response to your statement that, "all steroids convert in the liver" and in which case you are wrong.

lyfespan said:
people all AAS are run thru your liver, inj, oral, cyclo, or transdermal
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Oral steroids are absorbed from the GI tract and then pass through the liver before entering the blood. Most oral steroids are chemically modified (to prevent rapid breakdown) by the addition of a group of molecules at the alpha position of the number 17 carbon atom (alkylation) As a result of this, these C-17 alkylated steroids have a greater affect on your liver.

Injectable steroids are absorbed directly into the blood stream without a first pass through the liver. Yes there are a few injevtable C-17 alkylated steroids that will have a similar hepatic affect as oral ones but the majority of injectable steroids only undergo esterification in the liver and to compare this process to the harsh effects of a oral steroid is naive.


P.S

Weren't you the one who claimed to have read all the books I posted earlier? I am confused why I am explaining this to you then since you read those books and should have this understanding already.
 
JudoJosh said:
Yes and it was a response to your statement that, "all steroids convert in the liver" and in which case you are wrong.

Not wrong

Oral steroids are absorbed from the GI tract and then pass through the liver before entering the blood. Most oral steroids are chemically modified (to prevent rapid breakdown) by the addition of a group of molecules at the alpha position of the number 17 carbon atom (alkylation) As a result of this, these C-17 alkylated steroids have a greater affect on your liver.

Injectable steroids are absorbed directly into the blood stream without a first pass through the liver. Yes there are a few injevtable C-17 alkylated steroids that will have a similar hepatic affect as oral ones but the majority of injectable steroids only undergo esterification in the liver and to compare this process to the harsh effects of a oral steroid is naive.


P.S

Weren't you the one who claimed to have read all the books I posted earlier? I am confused why I am explaining this to you then since you read those books and should have this understanding already.
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its nice of you to use quotes and exerps from Willims book, but still wrong all AAS takes a trip thru the liver
 
Even if injected the body still breaks it down. Just because it is not methyl dosent mean there is no harm. I talked to a med student before, she said even test-e is somewhat toxic because your kidneys have to work through the by producs attached to the testosterone, test suspension would be the most safe AAS. But the dangers of test-e are veryyyyy low which is why they are used trt without much worry
 
Didn't see this page looks like answer is already said
 
Jasen said:
Even if injected the body still breaks it down. Just because it is not methyl dosent mean there is no harm. I talked to a med student before, she said even test-e is somewhat toxic because your kidneys have to work through the by producs attached to the testosterone, test suspension would be the most safe AAS. But the dangers of test-e are veryyyyy low which is why they are used trt without much worry
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OOOHHH yea renal damage is way more prevolent in BB world than hepatic. Hell the cleved ester is the smallest part of the issue renaly, its all the other **** you gotta worry about, the creatin levels and **** like that that are elevated during roid use
 
lyfespan said:
it doesnt convert to anything unless body needs it too, but lets see there aromatization, theres the whole 5a conversion to DHT.... shal I continue
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Hey I'm new to this and still learning... Problem is, I thought, unless it's a 19-nor, aromatization occurs in just about every tissue in the body but the liver. And even if I'm misinformed, how does that make it toxic?
So, the comment about ALL steroids passing through the liver or aromatizing in the liver may cause some disagreements.
Of course your liver does need to break down and discard all kinds of excess, bi-products and waste, but thats why we have one. It can handle that.
I have really enjoyed this thread and hope the arguing continues. I'm learning alot.
Judo-Josh, I'm rooting for you on this one...
 
I think there is a lot of miscommunication in here about what "toxic" is referring to. That's what it sounds like to me, at least.
 
Matthersby said:
Hey I'm new to this and still learning... Problem is, I thought, unless it's a 19-nor, aromatization occurs in just about every tissue in the body but the liver. And even then, how does that make it toxic?
So, the comment about ALL steroids passing through the liver or aromatizing in the liver may cause some disagreements.
Of course your liver does need to break down and discard all kinds of excess, bi-products and waste, but thats why we have one. It can handle that.
I have really enjoyed this thread and hope the arguing continues. I'm learning alot.
Judo-Josh, I'm rooting for you on this one...
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I just come over here to play, this site has sum people ready to graduate but not many.

Also dont muddy my statement that All AAS,DS, PHs pass thru the liver, with the actual actions of aromatization.
 
your running 700mgs of tren ace without sides, a lil hard to believe, but like I have said over and over, Different strokes.
RH2012 said:
trenbolone acetate. finaplix pellets. 75- 100mg ed if i go over 100mg ed i get slight gyno. the only side i ever experienced besides some hostility which i get from all androgens.
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lyfespan said:
its nice of you to use quotes and exerps from Willims book, but still wrong all AAS takes a trip thru the liver
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Please show me where I stated that it wont go through the liver.

Did you even read my post?

It stated that " the majority of injectable steroids only undergo esterification in the liver"

So this statement says injectables do go though your liver right?

And before this portion of the post I clearly said "Oral steroids are absorbed from the GI tract and then pass through the liver before entering the blood"

So where did I say it "wouldnt" go through the liver?

I think you fail to understand my point in all of this. The thread was full of people posting these horror stories on trens toxicity affects (might I add a majority of the post were coming across as if they were definitive facts and as if they were an authority on the matter) I just questioned what everyone was basing these claims off of and listed a couple of great reference material with regards to anabolic and androgen use and pharmacology. No where did I state Tren was not toxic, as all AAS pose some form of toxicity risk in one way or another.

What I disagree with is the emphatic postings trying to make tren seem like the worst steroid ever created. As I said earlier, yes it will pose some toxicity but when taken via injection the toxicity is really minimal and is often exaggerated. Once again, yes when injected it does pass through the liver (to undergo esterfication) but to compare this process to the harsh effects of a oral steroid is naive.
 
I've worked in dialysis and actually did some research on high protein intake, elevated blood urea nitrogen, and even steroid abuse causing renal disease. It's extremely rare. Our bodies(unless disease is present) are able to take decades of abuse unless there are other health conditions factored in, such as Flex Wheelers kidney disease.
 
Matthersby said:
Hey I'm new to this and still learning... Problem is, I thought, unless it's a 19-nor, aromatization occurs in just about every tissue in the body but the liver. And even if I'm misinformed, how does that make it toxic?
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Elevated liver enzymes is why it is believed tren is toxic. This itself is debatable since many things can show enzyme elevation but I would believe that all AAS pose some risk of toxicity and urge whoever to exercise caution and preventative measures with its use


Matthersby said:
So, the comment about ALL steroids passing through the liver or aromatizing in the liver may cause some disagreements.
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yes they will have some interaction with your liver, to what degree will depend on what your taking, how much and for how long. Again, usually the effects on the liver are often way exaggerated, especially when you take into account the livers ability to naturally regenerate on its own. Add in some TUDCA on cycle and you really shouldnt have to worry that much about your liver at all. By far I would say the steroids effects on lipid levels should be much more of a concern.

Matthersby said:
I have really enjoyed this thread and hope the arguing continues. I'm learning alot.
Judo-Josh, I'm rooting for you on this one...
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Thank you but for the record, by no means am I an authority on this subject and I am always open to rebuttalls, corrections and discussion. What I am not open to is the petty name calling, e-gangsta posting, and chilidsh remarks.
 
Same here, I love learning. Don't even have an interest in Tren. Just found all the arguing entertaining and informative in this thread.
 
RH2012 said:
ur the f*ckin moron. this stuff has been tested on humans and released as a human drug. i've ran tren several times and had NONE OF THE SIDES ur stating.
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tren wasn't released for humans, it was for animals. nice try. you mad, bro?
 
RH2012 said:
orals undergo first-pass metabolism in the liver as injectables do not.
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wrong again. while injectables don't hit the first time they still are metabolized and still affect the liver greatly. Bloods prove this, your ignorance doesn't.
 
RH2012 said:
ur the f*ckin moron. this stuff has been tested on humans and released as a human drug. i've ran tren several times and had NONE OF THE SIDES ur stating.
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Just because a drug was tested/approves for use on humans doesn't make it safe. I mean, accutane is legal with a prescription an everyone knows that stuff is poison, to the point that constant blood tests are mandatory for all who use it. Tren is super harsh for some, not as noticeable for others. Regardless, it is tough on the system as a whole.
 
jamesm11 said:
wrong again. while injectables don't hit the first time they still are metabolized and still affect the liver greatly. Bloods prove this, your ignorance doesn't.
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I'm asking out of ignorance, not to provoke anything. Injectable testosterone will cause elevated liver enzymes? The reason I ask is that is the preliminary test used to indicate liver stress. (not neccesarily damage) I was unaware this happened. I thought bypassing the liver meant a completely unaffected liver.
 
RH2012 said:
the liver stress is mainly caused by an alteration of the molecule. a methyl group is attached at the 17 position. this makes the molecule resistant to hepatic metabolism. that is what raises liver enzymes.
testosterone is not tweaked this way and should not increase liver enzymes. any drug that enters the bloodstream will pass through the liver. even if u injected a methyl steroid, it will still raise liver enzymes.
for example, they make an injectable d-bol. it will affect the liver the same as the oral version because it is still a methylated steroid.
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Just to add a bit to this...

This really only applies to winstrol as it is the only methylated inject I can think of at the moment. Oral vs inject winstrol is the same on the body... Not so with test vs methyl testosterone or masteron vs superdrol (methyl masteron (drostanalone))
 
RH2012 said:
reforvit b is available in mex as a vet drug or it used to be. it is an injectable d-bol. same as the winny v.
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u can get sauce down there still? and not pay an arm and leg?

man i remember my first QV test cycle.....i felt great.....on 250mg a week......but their stuff is vet grade and the sides are unpleasant at times.....

would much rather use euro stuff....atleast that stuff is made for scripts
 
PVL said:
u can get sauce down there still? and not pay an arm and leg?

man i remember my first QV test cycle.....i felt great.....on 250mg a week......but their stuff is vet grade and the sides are unpleasant at times.....

would much rather use euro stuff....atleast that stuff is made for scripts
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i wouldnt be going down to mexico, if you paid me
 
Agreed. It's still there and probably still cheap, but the border cities are a haven for kidnappings and are pretty much a drug cartel warzone. You'd be safer ordering from Europe.
 
lyfespan said:
i wouldnt be going down to mexico, if you paid me
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i was thinking of sending one of my gangster friends to jack me some test, lol!

yeah my white ass is either here or in europe........no bueno en mexico mi amigo.........:D
 
GMG760 said:
Agreed. It's still there and probably still cheap, but the border cities are a haven for kidnappings and are pretty much a drug cartel warzone. You'd be safer ordering from Europe.
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man my white ass aint going down there bro.........lol

id get some local to get me some stuff and stash it in their gas tank or something...........i know the rules, lol
 
PVL said:
man my white ass aint going down there bro.........lol

id get some local to get me some stuff and stash it in their gas tank or something...........i know the rules, lol
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Getting it across the border is no problem, dogs are trained to smell recreational drugs not testosterone or steroids. It's just not getting robbed/carjacked/hacked into pieces by machete wielding meth dealers that is the real issue.
 
GMG760 said:
Getting it across the border is no problem, dogs are trained to smell recreational drugs not testosterone or steroids. It's just not getting robbed/carjacked/hacked into pieces by machete wielding meth dealers that is the real issue.
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thats why u send someone else, and say "i have no idea what happened to him, told me he was visiting family" :D
 
RH2012 said:
i got some testosterona 200 by brovel from mex one time and it was weak as hell. had chlorobutanol in it instead of benzyl alcohol. it hurt like crap to pin it. that stuff wasn't worth near what i paid. but at the time u couldn't get anything here. there wasn't even such a thing as prohormones back then.
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damn.........that was a ways back man!!!

iwould never use the stuff, just uh........trade you can say............:D

hey i got this cool supplement, you wanna trade for your supplement.......type of deal.......;)
 
RH2012 said:
the liver stress is mainly caused by an alteration of the molecule. a methyl group is attached at the 17 position. this makes the molecule resistant to hepatic metabolism. that is what raises liver enzymes.
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The attachment of a 17 methyl group would make this methyl tren (metribolone). This is not the tren we are discussing.

GMG760 said:
Just to add a bit to this...

This really only applies to winstrol as it is the only methylated inject I can think of at the moment. Oral vs inject winstrol is the same on the body...
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Yes.. Sort of

Both oral and injectable winstrol will stress the liver due to the c17 alteration. It is believed oral will more since it has to go through the first pass. However, with injectable winstrol, although it avoids the first pass through the liver, there is still a possibility of liver damage occurring as it is still being broken down by the liver during the second pass.
 
RH2012 said:
dont forget about the mexican police. they will lock u up and extort money out of ur family for ur release. ur family will have to western union thier retirement money to some shady cops cause they found some sustanon on u. lol
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Truth. The mexican police are bigger criminals than the druglords. Except you can pay them off, Whenever I used to roll to Mex (back in my teens and early 20's) I would paperclip a 50 dollar bill to my ID and just accept it as the cost of doing business down there. We used to bring back stupid amounts of pills... I can't imagine doing such stupid **** now.
 
Yea, just outta high school, we would always bring $20-50 in our shoe in case we got into trouble. And we weren't scared to do anything down there. I would buy pain killers, muscle relaxers, and redijects of sustanon, put them behind my subwoofers, and drive right over the border without even stressing over it.
 
we used to get 'T4'.....test 400 from Denkal a mexican company......it was very strong.....walking with a limp after a shot ....sore ass all week ...they got busted a few years ago........
 
charley said:
we used to get 'T4'.....test 400 from Denkal a mexican company......it was very strong.....walking with a limp after a shot ....sore ass all week ...they got busted a few years ago........
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a friend of mine would come to work and complain about the pain......told him its prob dirty ****, but it was strong, he got hella big
 
I had a friend who would get all that stuff from mexico........I'd just tell him what I wanted and then go to the mailbox and it would be there. So I got mexican stuff + mailbox service. It was pretty cool. I used more quality-vet stuff than a motherfuqer. that QV prop hurt really bad I hated that stuff.
 
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