Old Fugger Ready to take on all challengers...Transfomation time!!!

thundergod said:
Ain't long now, home-slice.

Is there going to be a thread where all the contestants will post their pictures?
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thundergod said:
I actually thought there would be one major thread where all the contestants would post their pics for a comparison. It would certainly make it easier for us spectators if we could see all the contestants in one place and make side-by-side comparisons of their before and after shots to assess individual physique transformation.

And who picks the winner? We the viewing community or the NTBM guys?
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You guys do, it's hedl to a vote....

A_I_Sports_Nutrition said:
TG is a great source of info.
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indeed....:yup:
 
Man oh man I'm I working for this!! Got up at 4 am hacked up a bunch more brown crap and laboured through my 30 minutes fasted cardio. I do feel a bit better as I left a trail of mucus on my 5k walk this morning. As of now I plan on going to the gym tonight but I doubt I'll be full speed.... I may have to hack up some lung...

The good news is I lost about an inch around my waist since last week, I put on my 34 inch jeans and they were very loose around the waist.

I made a slight diet alteration, I will be eating egg whites in the am and one less steak, I might have to add a scoop of protein to make up for the protein difference.
 
DreamWeaver said:
Man oh man I'm I working for this!! Got up at 4 am hacked up a bunch more brown crap and laboured through my 30 minutes fasted cardio. I do feel a bit better as I left a trail of mucus on my 5k walk this morning. As of now I plan on going to the gym tonight but I doubt I'll be full speed.... I may have to hack up some lung...

The good news is I lost about an inch around my waist since last week, I put on my 34 inch jeans and they were very loose around the waist.

I made a slight diet alteration, I will be eating egg whites in the am and one less steak, I might have to add a scoop of protein to make up for the protein difference.
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No yolks Doug? Where are the good fats?
 
oufinny said:
No yolks Doug? Where are the good fats?
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Well, sadly, egg yolks are not good fats. They are very high in cholesterol.
I also cut out the yolks when trying to lean up.

Egg-White Omelets for the win!! :head:
 
oufinny said:
No yolks Doug? Where are the good fats?
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thundergod said:
Well, sadly, egg yolks are not good fats. They are very high in cholesterol.
I also cut out the yolks when trying to lean up.

Egg-White Omelets for the win!! :head:
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I may throw in a yolk or 2 with 8 egg whites, I get plenty of fat from the sirloins... That's the reason for the change actually, when I converted to sirlon the fat content was a bit higher so I added egg whites for one fo my beef meals. I am still eating 16 oz's of beef and 24 oz of fish ed.
 
thundergod said:
Well, sadly, egg yolks are not good fats. They are very high in cholesterol.
I also cut out the yolks when trying to lean up.

Egg-White Omelets for the win!! :head:
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This is actually incorrect information (assuming a low carb intake as Doug has now) but diet choices are done by the individual and macro breakdown does have an effect on if they are bad or good. I encourage you to read up if you get some time, many many have come out with proof showing that animal fats and those found in eggs are very healthy actually. You cannot make parent hormones, test, DHEA, estro etc... without cholesterol so the low fat, low cholesterol diet is really not a healthy plan at all for most all people (not to mention lack of vitamin absorption). The exception to the rule are those taking exogenous sources of the hormones such as yourself though you still will not get the conversion and production of others besides what you get from your test injections.

I was just like you TG, egg whites and a few yolks for years, I changed and it has made a big difference in energy levels and body composition. To each their own so please don't take this as me attacking you, just want to present the other side of the argument.
 
oufinny said:
This is actually incorrect information (assuming a low carb intake as Doug has now) but diet choices are done by the individual and macro breakdown does have an effect on if they are bad or good. I encourage you to read up if you get some time, many many have come out with proof showing that animal fats and those found in eggs are very healthy actually. You cannot make parent hormones, test, DHEA, estro etc... without cholesterol so the low fat, low cholesterol diet is really not a healthy plan at all for most all people (not to mention lack of vitamin absorption). The exception to the rule are those taking exogenous sources of the hormones such as yourself though you still will not get the conversion and production of others besides what you get from your test injections.

I was just like you TG, egg whites and a few yolks for years, I changed and it has made a big difference in energy levels and body composition. To each their own so please don't take this as me attacking you, just want to present the other side of the argument.
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I keep fats in my diet but I don't go too hiigh as the caloires add up pretty quick with fats...like I said I get plenty from the beef...
 
oufinny said:
This is actually incorrect information (assuming a low carb intake as Doug has now) but diet choices are done by the individual and macro breakdown does have an effect on if they are bad or good. I encourage you to read up if you get some time, many many have come out with proof showing that animal fats and those found in eggs are very healthy actually. You cannot make parent hormones, test, DHEA, estro etc... without cholesterol so the low fat, low cholesterol diet is really not a healthy plan at all for most all people (not to mention lack of vitamin absorption). The exception to the rule are those taking exogenous sources of the hormones such as yourself though you still will not get the conversion and production of others besides what you get from your test injections.

I was just like you TG, egg whites and a few yolks for years, I changed and it has made a big difference in energy levels and body composition. To each their own so please don't take this as me attacking you, just want to present the other side of the argument.
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Attack if you like bro. I don't mind.
I've got to keep an eye on my lipids. My HDL/LDL ratio is not the best. LDL is usually higher than I'd like it. I supplement with Niacin to raise my good HDL. And I use the fish oil and policosanol to lower the LDL. I control it without resorting to RX meds. Those statins usually raise your liver enzymes beyond desirable levels.

I'm not a cholesterol Nazi however. I know that cholesterol converts into the parent hormones: DHEA, Androstenediol and Testosterone. We can't live without fats. I just try to keep the saturated fats lower than the unsaturated and poly/mono-unsaturated fats.

I study a little from time to time........:type::22:

So I use a yolk or 2 here and there. No more.
DreamWeaver said:
I keep fats in my diet but I don't go too hiigh as the caloires add up pretty quick with fats...like I said I get plenty from the beef...
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I know that you know where I'm coming from. :yup:
 
thundergod said:
Attack if you like bro. I don't mind.
I've got to keep an eye on my lipids. My HDL/LDL ratio is not the best. LDL is usually higher than I'd like it. I supplement with Niacin to raise my good HDL. And I use the fish oil and policosanol to lower the LDL. I control it without resorting to RX meds. Those statins usually raise your liver enzymes beyond desirable levels.

I'm not a cholesterol Nazi however. I know that cholesterol converts into the parent hormones: DHEA, Androstenediol and Testosterone. We can't live without fats. I just try to keep the saturated fats lower than the unsaturated and poly/mono-unsaturated fats.

I study a little from time to time........:type::22:

So I use a yolk or 2 here and there. No more.


I know that you know where I'm coming from. :yup:
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Yah it still needs to be present in your diet but not in large amounts... a balance of different fats is the way to go for me... We have to be carefull that we're not too extreme either way. I'm happy with 23% at this low carb level, if I was on higher carbs I'd shoot for around 15-17%. Small adjustments are all that is needed.

My main reason for adding the egg whites was to achieve a better balance.
 
DreamWeaver said:
Yah it still needs to be present in your diet but not in large amounts... a balance of different fats is the way to go for me... We have to be carefull that we're not too extreme either way. I'm happy with 23% at this low carb level, if I was on higher carbs I'd shoot for around 15-17%. Small adjustments are all that is needed.

My main reason for adding the egg whites was to achieve a better balance.
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When I get my blood work done here shortly, as I am on a high fat diet, I will let you all know if cholesterol is out of whack or not. Though the cycle I did is not goign to help, if it is back into the normal range that says a lot about it that is for sure. Good stuff here guys, and I am happy to see TG is using a natural approach to manage his cholesterol, something many aren't willing to learn how to do.
 
oufinny said:
When I get my blood work done here shortly, as I am on a high fat diet, I will let you all know if cholesterol is out of whack or not. Though the cycle I did is not goign to help, if it is back into the normal range that says a lot about it that is for sure. Good stuff here guys, and I am happy to see TG is using a natural approach to manage his cholesterol, something many aren't willing to learn how to do.
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Admittedly it's my lack of knowledge that make me lean to a more balanced approach, it's just that I see a seesaw battle ocuring on a lot of these issues. I think a lot of this stuff is individual. I really believe that different people will experience different results given the same regiime, kind of baffling really, my instinct says balance and to go with more conservative adjustments.
 
On the note of the contest, I think it would be easier for people to vote if we had a starting and finishing photo as well as stats all in one thread. I don't think there is anyone who has followed all of the threads. That and the contest is about results not the best log. Of course I don't get a vote in how it is done. LOL

On the part about individualism, is really isn't that surprising when you look at how different people are just in appearance alone. What is surprising is that medically / nutritionally the suggestions are more generalized and less dissected into different types. It is almost as if some lobbiest some where had something to gain from people not being naturally healthy.
 
MrKleen73 said:
On the note of the contest, I think it would be easier for people to vote if we had a starting and finishing photo as well as stats all in one thread. I don't think there is anyone who has followed all of the threads. That and the contest is about results not the best log. Of course I don't get a vote in how it is done. LOL

On the part about individualism, is really isn't that surprising when you look at how different people are just in appearance alone. What is surprising is that medically / nutritionally the suggestions are more generalized and less dissected into different types. It is almost as if some lobbiest some where had something to gain from people not being naturally healthy.
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That couldn't be.... :blink:
 
MrKleen73 said:
On the note of the contest, I think it would be easier for people to vote if we had a starting and finishing photo as well as stats all in one thread. I don't think there is anyone who has followed all of the threads. That and the contest is about results not the best log. Of course I don't get a vote in how it is done. LOL

On the part about individualism, is really isn't that surprising when you look at how different people are just in appearance alone. What is surprising is that medically / nutritionally the suggestions are more generalized and less dissected into different types. It is almost as if some lobbiest some where had something to gain from people not being naturally healthy.
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had to bold this as well.it makes you second guess alot of things that happen and alot of things that don't happen.hmmmm
 
Well I went through the motions, I was dizzy could hardly breath and a bit stoned from all the meds and supps....

So .... I slayed ti anyways!!! I was down a couple reps on some exercises but up on a couple others...

All in all it was above average and I was really afraid of this one in my condition cuz there is a lot of compound lifting, full body workout double drop...

Hardly slept last night, every time I lay down I'd start coughing. Got up late thsi morning around 5:30 cleared my lungs 30 minutes cardio shower 5K walk to work, OEP is helping a bit but I feel like shyte due to lack of sleep...

Oh down to 224 but it looks like I lost more than 2 lbs so 23 lbs overall and it's good quality loss... I might make it we'll see...
 
DreamWeaver said:
Well I went through the motions, I was dizzy could hardly breath and a bit stoned from all the meds and supps....

So .... I slayed ti anyways!!! I was down a couple reps on some exercises but up on a couple others...

All in all it was above average and I was really afraid of this one in my condition cuz there is a lot of compound lifting, full body workout double drop...

Hardly slept last night, every time I lay down I'd start coughing. Got up late thsi morning around 5:30 cleared my lungs 30 minutes cardio shower 5K walk to work, OEP is helping a bit but I feel like shyte due to lack of sleep...

Oh down to 224 but it looks like I lost more than 2 lbs so 23 lbs overall and it's good quality loss... I might make it we'll see...
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If you are not feeling well I would take a rest day if I was you. Come home from work, have something to eat, take some meds, and go to sleep. You dont want to get sicker and chance being layed up for more then a few days. You have come sooooooooo far, and props to you. You deserve a little rest..Good luck..SJ
 
SuppJunkie said:
If you are not feeling well I would take a rest day if I was you. Come home from work, have something to eat, take some meds, and go to sleep. You dont want to get sicker and chance being layed up for more then a few days. You have come sooooooooo far, and props to you. You deserve a little rest..Good luck..SJ
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If I get a fever I will have to rest, but this is just a cold and bronchitis, you actually feel better when you're active... it's just tough becasue bronchitis debliitates your breathing for about a month. I just have the walk home today and I may leave early and rest up some.
 
Oh and this was rather serendipitous, had I not gone to work out I wiould have get caught in a blizzard, but by the time I got out of the gym is was nice and sunny... Like it was meant to be...
 
DreamWeaver said:
Oh and this was rather serendipitous, had I not gone to work out I wiould have get caught in a blizzard, but by the time I got out of the gym is was nice and sunny... Like it was meant to be...
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I would take the bus, you sir are crazy with the walking knowing blizzards are on the horizon.
 
oufinny said:
I would take the bus, you sir are crazy with the walking knowing blizzards are on the horizon.
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lol the key word is knowing, I had no idea, I was at the gym and looked out the window and there it was... the weather here is very errratic this time of year. This year is worse than most...
 
So you need to go to the doctor real quick, get an albuterol inhaler which is also a beta 2 antagonist and will help you cut fat and breathe. DAMN I amaze even me with the stuff I come up with... Now off to the doctor SIR!
 
MrKleen73 said:
So you need to go to the doctor real quick, get an albuterol inhaler which is also a beta 2 antagonist and will help you cut fat and breathe. DAMN I amaze even me with the stuff I come up with... Now off to the doctor SIR!
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great stuff here
 
MrKleen73 said:
So you need to go to the doctor real quick, get an albuterol inhaler which is also a beta 2 antagonist and will help you cut fat and breathe. DAMN I amaze even me with the stuff I come up with... Now off to the doctor SIR!
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Lol...
 
MrKleen73 said:
So you need to go to the doctor real quick, get an albuterol inhaler which is also a beta 2 antagonist and will help you cut fat and breathe. DAMN I amaze even me with the stuff I come up with... Now off to the doctor SIR!
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Yah I wonder if they'd even perscribe that stuff here, probelm seeing a doctor in Quebec is it might be a 5 to 6 hour wait... :grumpy:
 
So I slept ok last night.. Fishermans Friend losanges helped quite a bit. I feel a bit better morning cardio was not as tough.

What I saw in the mirror this morning was .. hope...
 
Glad to hear you are feeling a little better. On a side note, I am in the dark because I just saw that you live in Montreal. No sh*t. I used to go up there all the time some years ago..LOL, the hotel I used to stay at is no longer there it was knocked down, I also used to go to Quebec and stay at the Hotel the Chateau Frontenac. I remember all the crazy snow and cold temps and everything. I gotta get back there again, think I will go when its warm out for a change, ie, summer..LOL

Take care man and keep up the awesome training..SJ

BTW, is there a gym I can train at in the area when I come up..
 
SuppJunkie said:
Glad to hear you are feeling a little better. On a side note, I am in the dark because I just saw that you live in Montreal. No sh*t. I used to go up there all the time some years ago..LOL, the hotel I used to stay at is no longer there it was knocked down, I also used to go to Quebec and stay at the Hotel the Shatou Frontinac (speeling is way off I am sure). I remember all the crazy snow and cold temps and everything. I gotta get back there again, think I will go when its warm out for a change, ie, summer..LOL

Take care man and keep uo the awesome training..SJ

BTW, is there a gym I can train at in the area when I come up..
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I train at ETS which is pretty close to downtown Notre Dame and Peel... If you come up bring me goodies...

Yah Quebec City is even colder than here... Chateau Frontenac!! pretty snazzy digs there!!
 
Yah man, I def will look you up if I come there this summer..Take care..SJ


Btw, thank you for the correct spelling..LOL

SJ
 
DreamWeaver said:
Yah I wonder if they'd even perscribe that stuff here, probelm seeing a doctor in Quebec is it might be a 5 to 6 hour wait... :grumpy:
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Ah the joys of socialized medicine, and our moron president thinks its a good idea...
 
oufinny said:
Ah the joys of socialized medicine, and our moron president thinks its a good idea...
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Well before you make a decision on what the right path is you should stop and consider who would be running it...:grumpy:
 
Glad to hear you are feeling better Doug.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Glad to hear you are feeling better Doug.
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Thanks I'm stuck with the bronchitis for another month probably but it will slowly get better over that time period and shortness of breath will be my only symptom. When I exercise my lungs clear up some so it's not show stopping, just very annoying!! :firedevil:
 
Yeah, they have to have some type of bronchiodialator over the counter up there don't they? Something that will help you breathe and recover faster? I am guessing ephedrine is illegal there? If not it will do the trick for sure.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Yeah, they have to have some type of bronchiodialator over the counter up there don't they? Something that will help you breathe and recover faster? I am guessing ephedrine is illegal there? If not it will do the trick for sure.
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Yah it is but it's got the bad sides to it... I can get it in 8mg pills at the supp store...
 
DreamWeaver said:
Thanks I'm stuck with the bronchitis for another month probably but it will slowly get better over that time period and shortness of breath will be my only symptom. When I exercise my lungs clear up some so it's not show stopping, just very annoying!! :firedevil:
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I take it you don't want to be using an antibiotic now, hence your mentioning it will take a month to heal. I could see that not being advantageous on cycle...
 
MrKleen73 said:
So you need to go to the doctor real quick, get an albuterol inhaler which is also a beta 2 antagonist and will help you cut fat and breathe. DAMN I amaze even me with the stuff I come up with... Now off to the doctor SIR!
Click to expand...

DreamWeaver said:
Yah I wonder if they'd even perscribe that stuff here, probelm seeing a doctor in Quebec is it might be a 5 to 6 hour wait... :grumpy:
Click to expand...

MrKleen73 said:
Yeah, they have to have some type of bronchiodialator over the counter up there don't they? Something that will help you breathe and recover faster? I am guessing ephedrine is illegal there? If not it will do the trick for sure.
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DreamWeaver said:
Yah it is but it's got the bad sides to it... I can get it in 8mg pills at the supp store...
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Love albuterol. :yup:

I'm willing to wager that they would have this Doug. But it would be by prescription only.

You could get an inhaler OTC like Primatene Mist. It has epinephrine in it instead of ephedrine. It works too. I'm asthmatic to certain airborn things like flour, perfumes and certain pollens. Other than these I have no problems with asthma.
I've used the Primatene Mist and it has helped every single time.
 
The inhalers don't deliver enough compound for the thermogenic effects, albuterol or ephedrine. I agree though, 6-9mg of Albuterol and I'm doing great!
 
oufinny said:
I take it you don't want to be using an antibiotic now, hence your mentioning it will take a month to heal. I could see that not being advantageous on cycle...
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Antibiotics compromise the immune system, I haven't used them in almost 16 years...

thundergod said:
Love albuterol. :yup:

I'm willing to wager that they would have this Doug. But it would be by prescription only.

You could get an inhaler OTC like Primatene Mist. It has epinephrine in it instead of ephedrine. It works too. I'm asthmatic to certain airborn things like flour, perfumes and certain pollens. Other than these I have no problems with asthma.
I've used the Primatene Mist and it has helped every single time.
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Yah I'll try that...
 
DreamWeaver said:
Antibiotics compromise the immune system, I haven't used them in almost 16 years...
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To each their own, I am 100% in disagreement with this statement for a myriad of reasons, the risk of secondary infection being the number one, but you are welcome to do what you like. I just want to see you healthy near the end of this, not fighting something off. I just did that, it was a mess.
 
DreamWeaver said:
Yah it is but it's got the bad sides to it... I can get it in 8mg pills at the supp store...
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The sides on Ephedrine are overhyped unless you personally have bad sides. As long as used responsibly it isn't as bad as a lot of things. Anything over 25 mg a day is when I get an issue, and I am someone who gets sides for some reason. At 8mg a cap 1-2 would be money for breathing without many if any sides. You definitely won't get jittery off of that.

thundergod said:
Love albuterol. :yup:

I'm willing to wager that they would have this Doug. But it would be by prescription only.

You could get an inhaler OTC like Primatene Mist. It has epinephrine in it instead of ephedrine. It works too. I'm asthmatic to certain airborn things like flour, perfumes and certain pollens. Other than these I have no problems with asthma.
I've used the Primatene Mist and it has helped every single time.
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There you go Primatene Mist, I didn't think about that. Good stuff TG! I get exercise induced asthma on occasion. I keep an albuterol in my gym bag. May have to see about getting a Primatene to see how effective it is for me. I was plagued with Asthmatic Bronchitis as a youngster and had a bad bout of it about 5 years ago almost sent me to hospital, took me out of work for a week, had me on medrol pack, the whole 9 yards. Just sucked!
Milas said:
The inhalers don't deliver enough compound for the thermogenic effects, albuterol or ephedrine. I agree though, 6-9mg of Albuterol and I'm doing great!
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I get a decent pick me up from two pumps of my albuteral inhaler. Not sure if it increases temp, but surprisingly give me energy. Inhaled it is going to be stronger than oral too but I don't know how much more. Definitely not like 6-9 mg of it.
 
oufinny said:
To each their own, I am 100% in disagreement with this statement for a myriad of reasons, the risk of secondary infection being the number one, but you are welcome to do what you like. I just want to see you healthy near the end of this, not fighting something off. I just did that, it was a mess.
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Yah I have multiple experience with antibiotics and will use them if I have to but prefer not to...
 
MrKleen73 said:
The sides on Ephedrine are overhyped unless you personally have bad sides. As long as used responsibly it isn't as bad as a lot of things. Anything over 25 mg a day is when I get an issue, and I am someone who gets sides for some reason. At 8mg a cap 1-2 would be money for breathing without many if any sides. You definitely won't get jittery off of that.


There you go Primatene Mist, I didn't think about that. Good stuff TG! I get exercise induced asthma on occasion. I keep an albuterol in my gym bag. May have to see about getting a Primatene to see how effective it is for me. I was plagued with Asthmatic Bronchitis as a youngster and had a bad bout of it about 5 years ago almost sent me to hospital, took me out of work for a week, had me on medrol pack, the whole 9 yards. Just sucked!

I get a decent pick me up from two pumps of my albuteral inhaler. Not sure if it increases temp, but surprisingly give me energy. Inhaled it is going to be stronger than oral too but I don't know how much more. Definitely not like 6-9 mg of it.
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It's been a while since I have used ephidrine and I was so stim sensitive back then, the worst for me is I couldn't sleep on it no matter when I took it. It may be different now I don't know. I am not stim sensitive any more after taking OEP and Motivate...
 
MrKleen73 said:
There you go Primatene Mist, I didn't think about that. Good stuff TG! I get exercise induced asthma on occasion. I keep an albuterol in my gym bag. May have to see about getting a Primatene to see how effective it is for me. I was plagued with Asthmatic Bronchitis as a youngster and had a bad bout of it about 5 years ago almost sent me to hospital, took me out of work for a week, had me on medrol pack, the whole 9 yards. Just sucked!


I get a decent pick me up from two pumps of my albuteral inhaler. Not sure if it increases temp, but surprisingly give me energy. Inhaled it is going to be stronger than oral too but I don't know how much more. Definitely not like 6-9 mg of it.
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Not surprising at all really. Albuterol gives me a jolt.
And the Primatene Mist is even more potent regarding the stim effect. It has pure epinephrine. The stuff they inject into a dying person to get their heart beating again. Powerful stuff.
Just don't over-do it. No 8 to 10 pumps or anything like that!! :fool2:

And the Primatene Mist doesn't require a prescription and it is cheaper. What's not to like? :laugh2:


And Doug, a few pumps of Primatene Mist pre-workout will put you on the ready side of the battle!! :yup:
 
thundergod said:
Not surprising at all really. Albuterol gives me a jolt.
And the Primatene Mist is even more potent regarding the stim effect. It has pure epinephrine. The stuff they inject into a dying person to get their heart beating again. Powerful stuff.
Just don't over-do it. No 8 to 10 pumps or anything like that!! :fool2:

And the Primatene Mist doesn't require a prescription and it is cheaper. What's not to like? :laugh2:


And Doug, a few pumps of Primatene Mist pre-workout will put you on the ready side of the battle!! :yup:
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Whoohoo!! sounds great, hey these fishermans friends have be brething pretty cliear too...
 
DreamWeaver said:
Whoohoo!! sounds great, hey these fishermans friends have be brething pretty cliear too...
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We actually have those fisherman's friends around here in the southern USA.
I've used them before. They do work. Very well.
 
I am happy to see the restraint with the albuterol, it is very potent and can give you the sides you get from Yohimbe if you take too much. I was having a bad attack and needed 4 puffs to get my breath after about 20 minutes, last bad one I ever had when I was a smoker, man I was miserable for a few hours. Whole body was jittery and was totally out of it for 30 minutes. I say stick to the primitine, it is safe if you dose per the package and many buy it in place of albuterol due to the sides (like I described).
 
oufinny said:
I am happy to see the restraint with the albuterol, it is very potent and can give you the sides you get from Yohimbe if you take too much. I was having a bad attack and needed 4 puffs to get my breath after about 20 minutes, last bad one I ever had when I was a smoker, man I was miserable for a few hours. Whole body was jittery and was totally out of it for 30 minutes. I say stick to the primitine, it is safe if you dose per the package and many buy it in place of albuterol due to the sides (like I described).
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Ok thanks for the warning...
 
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