Old Fugger Ready to take on all challengers...Transfomation time!!!

[BarbellBeast]

It's not my business, but since you're going to the "dark-side" and running some Test, why not just get real Tren-Ace? If one desires tren-like effects, one's best option is to run real Tren!!

You'll be paying too much for this Trenazone, bro. I don't blame the other guys using it, the ones not wanting to run real AAS or not wanting to risk the legal issues of ordering it. But if you're going to place an order for real Test, just grab some real Tren-Ace while you're at it.
You could even buy some authentic Oral Tren.....methyltrienolone.
And instead of Epi-Strong, get some Anavar.


I've done a lion's share of both ph/aas.......and I can tell you this: Real AAS blows all of those ph/ds out of the friggin' water!!!

:redeemerwhore:

I've already gone to the "darkside" LOL. Thing is I have enough test to run for my next cycle so I really don't need to place another order. I'll price up the diff between Tren ace & Trenazone and that will be where I decide. Oh and the Epi-strong I have aplenty... Gotta use up what I gots!

 

[MrKleen73]

Haha you could always sell the epi strong to get the Tren Ace... ;0)

 

[oufinny]

Haha you could always sell the epi strong to get the Tren Ace... ;0)

Tren is not cheap and you need at least 20 mL for a solid cycle at 225mg per week. There is a great thread on another forum I am on about tren. Doug, straight stuff here, it is not for an amateur and I really suggest you look at other ways to go (I know TG is not trying to put you in danger, but we need to be realistic and you and I are very new to cycling these compounds). If you want to harden up and lean out, masteron is much safer and has less side effects; and you can throw in a wetter compound with it to add more mass. If you want some links to do research, hit me up I just don't want to post a non-sponsor forum links here.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Hey Dreamweaver, just read the entire thread. Better late then never. Props to you man, well deserved. Good luck with your training and supplementation as well as teh contest. I was looking at the Trenazone and yok3d myself..I will be following along. Take care..SJ

That's a lot of reading ... thanks for your kind words and support...

In time I will...I have a wife to work on before I can stick a needle in my a$$:439:

Yes that's an obsticle for sure...

I've already gone to the "darkside" LOL. Thing is I have enough test to run for my next cycle so I really don't need to place another order. I'll price up the diff between Tren ace & Trenazone and that will be where I decide. Oh and the Epi-strong I have aplenty... Gotta use up what I gots!

I love EPI-strong, I didn't know that they were goiing stop selling it...

Haha you could always sell the epi strong to get the Tren Ace... ;0)

I know a buyer ..:yup:

Tren is not cheap and you need at least 20 mL for a solid cycle at 225mg per week. There is a great thread on another forum I am on about tren. Doug, straight stuff here, it is not for an amateur and I really suggest you look at other ways to go (I know TG is not trying to put you in danger, but we need to be realistic and you and I are very new to cycling these compounds). If you want to harden up and lean out, masteron is much safer and has less side effects; and you can throw in a wetter compound with it to add more mass. If you want some links to do research, hit me up I just don't want to post a non-sponsor forum links here.

I wasn't thinking of taking Tren, If I were to cycle I would go with Test E/Deca/Anavar as TG says that's a great stack for the joints. A prep cycle would look different.

 

[thundergod]

In time I will...I have a wife to work on before I can stick a needle in my a$$:439:

I don't want to piss anyone off with what I'm about to say......but sometimes that's unavoidable.

I see so many guys saying they wish they could run some real AAS, but their wives/girlfriends won't "let" them??!!:think::dunno:
I don't get it. I mean, I do respect my wife's opinion on these matters but I gave her lots of reading material on the subject before I got on the "juice" to show her that it's much more safe than the mainstream media portrays it to be, I let her read up on the subject and she had no qualms about it. She's a nurse and she does my pinning for me.

Doctors administer injectable testosterone everyday. It's very commonplace nowadays. :yup:

Let your wife read up on the subject at low-t.com

It couldn't hurt.

 

[thundergod]

I've already gone to the "darkside" LOL. Thing is I have enough test to run for my next cycle so I really don't need to place another order. I'll price up the diff between Tren ace & Trenazone and that will be where I decide. Oh and the Epi-strong I have aplenty... Gotta use up what I gots!

I don't blame you for using up your PH/DS, bro. I already told you that. I still have a decent amount of them in my stash. I ran some Super-Drol around Thanksgiving along with my Test-Cyp. It was a great blast. I've still got some Tren, Phera, Super-Drol, H-Drol and Epi in stash. It WILL get used. No way I'm tossing 'em or selling 'em. But I've also got Anadrol, D-Bol, Winstrol, Halotestin, Cheque Drops and Methyl-trienolone in stash!! Yum-Yum. :32:

When comparing the prices on Tren-Ace and that Trenazone, remember to calculate how many servings each will afford you.
And keep in mind that Tren-Ace is going to blow the proverbial doors off that Trenazone stuff......believe it!! A mere 50 mgs. of Tren-Ace will smoke 120 mgs. of that Trenazone. I've ran both compounds before, so I'm not just talking out of my ass here.

I'm telling ya bro, Test-E, Tren-Ace and Epi-Strong would make you one Heluva recomp/cutter.
Incredibly so. :yup:

 

[DreamWeaver]

Well pretty much hit the wall last might, was feeling crappy with this cold and almost no carbs in my ssystem. I added a few onces of Grapefruit juice to my pre and intra drink which staved off any dizziness.

Push Press 135 125 115 I think it went 9/7/6 reps
DB Pull Over 80 70 60 13/9/8 been a while since I've done this so I was being conservative still not to bad.
Incline Bench Here's where I hit the wall 205 X 4 185 X 4 165 X 4 very little power I think I was a lttle burned out from earlier workouts in the week. It's deceivingly difficult with full body cuz you exercise the body part 3 time per week.
Reverse Curls 70/60/50 for 9/7/6 reps
Decline Tri Extensions 95 85 75 for 11/7/6 reps pretty good actually
Tbar Rows These did not go as well as normal 205 X 7, 180 X 5 155 X 5 just wasn't feeling it form seemed off.
Leg Ext Better than expected 165 150 and 135 for 10/8/6 reps

Funny I hit the wall on a couple exercises and think ... crappy workout but when you write in down it's not that bad after all...

More fasted am cardio and I had a bit better energy ...God knows why, but it was welcome.

I am goiing to do a quick carb up this evening, help me fight off this damn cold!! Fug!! Staring at my bottle of motivate, going to down some to help me through the day....

 

[DreamWeaver]

I don't want to piss anyone off with what I'm about to say......but sometimes that's unavoidable.

I see so many guys saying they wish they could run some real AAS, but their wives/girlfriends won't "let" them??!!:think::dunno:
I don't get it. I mean, I do respect my wife's opinion on these matters but I gave her lots of reading material on the subject before I got on the "juice" to show her that it's much more safe than the mainstream media portrays it to be, I let her read up on the subject and she had no qualms about it. She's a nurse and she does my pinning for me.

Doctors administer injectable testosterone everyday. It's very commonplace nowadays. :yup:

Let your wife read up on the subject at low-t.com

It couldn't hurt.

That's a good idea actually...

I don't blame you for using up your PH/DS, bro. I already told you that. I still have a decent amount of them in my stash. I ran some Super-Drol around Thanksgiving along with my Test-Cyp. It was a great blast. I've still got some Tren, Phera, Super-Drol, H-Drol and Epi in stash. It WILL get used. No way I'm tossing 'em or selling 'em. But I've also got Anadrol, D-Bol, Winstrol, Halotestin, Cheque Drops and Methyl-trienolone in stash!! Yum-Yum. :32:

When comparing the prices on Tren-Ace and that Trenazone, remember to calculate how many servings each will afford you.
And keep in mind that Tren-Ace is going to blow the proverbial doors off that Trenazone stuff......believe it!! A mere 50 mgs. of Tren-Ace will smoke 120 mgs. of that Trenazone. I've ran both compounds before, so I'm not just talking out of my ass here.

I'm telling ya bro, Test-E, Tren-Ace and Epi-Strong would make you one Heluva recomp/cutter.
Incredibly so. :yup:

Now that's a fuggin stash!!

 

[thundergod]

Tren is not cheap and you need at least 20 mL for a solid cycle at 225mg per week. There is a great thread on another forum I am on about tren. Doug, straight stuff here, it is not for an amateur and I really suggest you look at other ways to go (I know TG is not trying to put you in danger, but we need to be realistic and you and I are very new to cycling these compounds). If you want to harden up and lean out, masteron is much safer and has less side effects; and you can throw in a wetter compound with it to add more mass. If you want some links to do research, hit me up I just don't want to post a non-sponsor forum links here.

I NEVER advised Doug to run some injecatble Tren. I just told him how strong real Tren is.....and it is!!
I advised him on a simple Test-E, low-dose Deca and Anavar cycle.
And I only advised BarbellBeast on tren because he said he's ran injectables before.

That is all.

 

[DreamWeaver]

I NEVER advised Doug to run some injecatble Tren. I just told him how strong real Tren is.....and it is!!
I advised him on a simple Test-E, low-dose Deca and Anavar cycle.
And I only advised BarbellBeast on tren because he said he's ran injectables before.

That is all.

Yes that's true, I trust you man... that's why I ask you for advice.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Forgot to mention, just upped my dose of S4 to 75mg ed, I do feel it has kicked in I am feeling very hard. Looking hard is another thing I will know better when I remove body hair this weekend. That's going to be a big job.

 

[mich29]

this being sick thing is def going around.great back and forth here as well.very enjoyable reading.

 

[DreamWeaver]

this being sick thing is def going around.great back and forth here as well.very enjoyable reading.

Indeed, I learn more when I share what I am thinking and encourage others to do so as well... that way we all learn together. :yup:

 

[BarbellBeast]

I don't blame you for using up your PH/DS, bro. I already told you that. I still have a decent amount of them in my stash. I ran some Super-Drol around Thanksgiving along with my Test-Cyp. It was a great blast. I've still got some Tren, Phera, Super-Drol, H-Drol and Epi in stash. It WILL get used. No way I'm tossing 'em or selling 'em. But I've also got Anadrol, D-Bol, Winstrol, Halotestin, Cheque Drops and Methyl-trienolone in stash!! Yum-Yum. :32:

When comparing the prices on Tren-Ace and that Trenazone, remember to calculate how many servings each will afford you.
And keep in mind that Tren-Ace is going to blow the proverbial doors off that Trenazone stuff......believe it!! A mere 50 mgs. of Tren-Ace will smoke 120 mgs. of that Trenazone. I've ran both compounds before, so I'm not just talking out of my ass here.

I'm telling ya bro, Test-E, Tren-Ace and Epi-Strong would make you one Heluva recomp/cutter.
Incredibly so. :yup:

Agreed bro. Hit you with a PM.

 

[oufinny]

I NEVER advised Doug to run some injecatble Tren. I just told him how strong real Tren is.....and it is!!
I advised him on a simple Test-E, low-dose Deca and Anavar cycle.
And I only advised BarbellBeast on tren because he said he's ran injectables before.

That is all.

No hard feelings Thunder, I know you are looking out for Doug and everyone else. I may have remembered your post wrong, my bad.

 

[oufinny]

I don't want to piss anyone off with what I'm about to say......but sometimes that's unavoidable.

I see so many guys saying they wish they could run some real AAS, but their wives/girlfriends won't "let" them??!!:think::dunno:
I don't get it. I mean, I do respect my wife's opinion on these matters but I gave her lots of reading material on the subject before I got on the "juice" to show her that it's much more safe than the mainstream media portrays it to be, I let her read up on the subject and she had no qualms about it. She's a nurse and she does my pinning for me.

Doctors administer injectable testosterone everyday. It's very commonplace nowadays. :yup:

Let your wife read up on the subject at low-t.com

It couldn't hurt.

Had this conversation with my current GF and after seeing how many sides I had to deal with on DS like DMZ and Epi, she is all for something safer and easier on the body, i.e. test and injectible AAS (or non methylated orals). The amount of bad information that swirls around AAS is so profound, so incorrect and has such an agenda, it sometimes is shocking when people learn the truth.

 

[DreamWeaver]

No hard feelings Thunder, I know you are looking out for Doug and everyone else. I may have remembered your post wrong, my bad.

Good form... :yup:

Yah Thunder was the first person I asked when I was considering anabolics and he was reluctant knowing that I had pride in my natural status.

 

[tetrasarin]

Forgot to mention, just upped my dose of S4 to 75mg ed, I do feel it has kicked in I am feeling very hard. Looking hard is another thing I will know better when I remove body hair this weekend. That's going to be a big job.

Are you experiencing any vision sides?

 

[DreamWeaver]

Are you experiencing any vision sides?

No not yet...it's been about 10 days but I one increased dosage to 75 today...

 

[DreamWeaver]

Damn what a carb up and only about 350-400 grams and I'm like a fuggin rock!! I have never experienced anything like this ... wow! Oh and the seratusis is showing so it just took some carbs to bring them out. I don't know how spilled over I am just a bit by the look of it.

Turns out I bought dermatherm instead of dermacrine d'oh!! oh well I will use it on my chest and arms...

 

[thundergod]

No hard feelings Thunder, I know you are looking out for Doug and everyone else. I may have remembered your post wrong, my bad.

No hard feelings at all, bro. Only love from brother-Thunder. :yup:

Had this conversation with my current GF and after seeing how many sides I had to deal with on DS like DMZ and Epi, she is all for something safer and easier on the body, i.e. test and injectible AAS (or non methylated orals). The amount of bad information that swirls around AAS is so profound, so incorrect and has such an agenda, it sometimes is shocking when people learn the truth.

We need to realize that these "legal alternatives" to real AAS are not well-documented and have very little real-world studies done on them to determine long-term usage effects. We dont know 5 to 10 years down the road what the effects will be from our using these PH/DS.

Real AAS on the other hand have been used and documented for many years (early 1930's) with lots of studies showing the positive and even negative effects stemming from their usage. We know what to expect from using them.

Bottom line.......I think we're safer using real AAS rather than all these relatively under-studied compounds that are being marketed as "safer" alternatives to AAS. Time will tell the tale.

Pass me the real AAS, please. :yup:

 

[thundergod]

Good form... :yup:

Yah Thunder was the first person I asked when I was considering anabolics and he was reluctant knowing that I had pride in my natural status.

True. And I was 42 before I ever used PH/DS or AAS. I also considered my "natural status" a thing to be proud of. I didn't want to give the credit to a "substance" for all my hard-earned muscle and strength.
Then I realized we all need that little bump to put us over our present level of physique transformation. I have never regretted the decision to use AAS. It's been a joy and pleasure to watch my body transform and to see my strength sky-rocket.

I still think that guys are better off waiting on using AAS until their bodies' own production of testosterone begins to wane. I think that 35 and over is a good age for one to consider tipping the anabolic scales in their favor.

 

[RickRock13]

I don't want to piss anyone off with what I'm about to say......but sometimes that's unavoidable.

I see so many guys saying they wish they could run some real AAS, but their wives/girlfriends won't "let" them??!!:think::dunno:
I don't get it. I mean, I do respect my wife's opinion on these matters but I gave her lots of reading material on the subject before I got on the "juice" to show her that it's much more safe than the mainstream media portrays it to be, I let her read up on the subject and she had no qualms about it. She's a nurse and she does my pinning for me.

Doctors administer injectable testosterone everyday. It's very commonplace nowadays. :yup:

Let your wife read up on the subject at low-t.com

It couldn't hurt.

I appreciate the feedback and info man, and I think you have some good ideas for me to help her see the light.
She is also a Nurse so she understands injections but I don't think that is what she would have a problem with. Its the whole legality thing and what the media has led the majority to believe that they are bad, evil drugs that can kill you or make you want to kill people.

The irony is that I use OTC and legal PH/DS that are much worse for me.

I think I will get her there, its just a matter of when

 

[RickRock13]

True. And I was 42 before I ever used PH/DS or AAS. I also considered my "natural status" a thing to be proud of. I didn't want to give the credit to a "substance" for all my hard-earned muscle and strength.
Then I realized we all need that little bump to put us over our present level of physique transformation. I have never regretted the decision to use AAS. It's been a joy and pleasure to watch my body transform and to see my strength sky-rocket.

I still think that guys are better off waiting on using AAS until their bodies' own production of testosterone begins to wane. I think that 35 and over is a good age for one to consider tipping the anabolic scales in their favor.

I agree 100%. I am very happy that I started using anabolics a few months ago, but I am also very happy with waiting until I was 36 before starting.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Damn this log blew up since I have been on my leave of absense. Keep up the hard work DW.

 

[DreamWeaver]

True. And I was 42 before I ever used PH/DS or AAS. I also considered my "natural status" a thing to be proud of. I didn't want to give the credit to a "substance" for all my hard-earned muscle and strength.
Then I realized we all need that little bump to put us over our present level of physique transformation. I have never regretted the decision to use AAS. It's been a joy and pleasure to watch my body transform and to see my strength sky-rocket.

I still think that guys are better off waiting on using AAS until their bodies' own production of testosterone begins to wane. I think that 35 and over is a good age for one to consider tipping the anabolic scales in their favor.

I think once you realize that you can't do any better than what you've already done naturally is when you tend to think about other options...

I appreciate the feedback and info man, and I think you have some good ideas for me to help her see the light.
She is also a Nurse so she understands injections but I don't think that is what she would have a problem with. Its the whole legality thing and what the media has led the majority to believe that they are bad, evil drugs that can kill you or make you want to kill people.

The irony is that I use OTC and legal PH/DS that are much worse for me.

I think I will get her there, its just a matter of when

Yah the media makes things tough on people who are considering escalation.

Damn this log blew up since I have been on my leave of absense. Keep up the hard work DW.

Welcome back Don, yah things have been a movin and a shakin in here!!

I just did my body hair removal and it revealed more muscle than I knew I had and more fat but I was ready for that. All in all I was ok with how I looked. I tend to look a little soft for the first few days anyhow.

 

[MrKleen73]

I think once you realize that you can't do any better than what you've already done naturally is when you tend to think about other options...

Yah the media makes things tough on people who are considering escalation.

Welcome back Don, yah things have been a movin and a shakin in here!!

I just did my body hair removal and it revealed more muscle than I knew I had and more fat but I was ready for that. All in all I was ok with how I looked. I tend to look a little soft for the first few days anyhow.

Nice Doug, yeah I feel the same way when the hair comes off. Maybe it is that baby smoothness just looks softer to us than the course hair. Kind of like a person looks weird after shaving their goatee at first.

All Hail ThunderGod! There are not many other people I trust completely regarding AAS but he is definitely at the top of the list. I agree with the waiting until you are older to hop on AAS too. I think I am about where I want to be for now regarding physique. Just leaning up for now giving the shoulder some time to heal up nicely before really killing it again. I also like the statement Thunder made about the wife "letting" someone do something. There truly is no let, we decide what we do in the end. That became evident to me as much as I thought about it and the wife was a big deterrent from me jumping on the wagon. Well my wife finally agreed to let me do anything I could to help my shoulder recover like certain AAS. It took me a good bit of see-sawing to decide I would ride this out for a while, get rid of the DS I have, and just see what else I can do naturally while the hpta is still golden. Now when it goes a little south TRT here I come and then I will more than likely supplement that TRT dosage in a ThunderGod like manner. Not saying that my situation is everyones but here I sit with permission and it was me who ended up deciding against it. Go figure...

 

[DreamWeaver]

Nice Doug, yeah I feel the same way when the hair comes off. Maybe it is that baby smoothness just looks softer to us than the course hair. Kind of like a person looks weird after shaving their goatee at first.

All Hail ThunderGod! There are not many other people I trust completely regarding AAS but he is definitely at the top of the list. I agree with the waiting until you are older to hop on AAS too. I think I am about where I want to be for now regarding physique. Just leaning up for now giving the shoulder some time to heal up nicely before really killing it again. I also like the statement Thunder made about the wife "letting" someone do something. There truly is no let, we decide what we do in the end. That became evident to me as much as I thought about it and the wife was a big deterrent from me jumping on the wagon. Well my wife finally agreed to let me do anything I could to help my shoulder recover like certain AAS. It took me a good bit of see-sawing to decide I would ride this out for a while, get rid of the DS I have, and just see what else I can do naturally while the hpta is still golden. Now when it goes a little south TRT here I come and then I will more than likely supplement that TRT dosage in a ThunderGod like manner. Not saying that my situation is everyones but here I sit with permission and it was me who ended up deciding against it. Go figure...

Yah and that's another point my HPTA is still very strong at 52. For me it's my joints giving out. :whiner:

 

[thundergod]

Yah and that's another point my HPTA is still very strong at 52. For me it's my joints giving out. :whiner:

Concerning joints......:439: atOH!! Not those joints!! :nono:

HA HA
Anyway,
I've been running Deca-Durabolin @375 mgs. weekly for almost 10 weeks now and my old right shoulder has NEVER felt better. Nandrolone has not only lived up to its hype as a joint pain-reliever, but has well surpassed it even. I've got 4 more weeks at this dosage and then I go into my "cruise" control of lower test dosages using Test-Cypionate @300 mgs. weekly. At that time I will also lower my Deca doses down to 150 or 200 mg. weekly merely for the relief it provides.
I see where some guys run it low-dose like this year-round just for the joint pain relief.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Concerning joints......:439: atOH!! Not those joints!! :nono:

HA HA
Anyway,
I've been running Deca-Durabolin @375 mgs. weekly for almost 10 weeks now and my old right shoulder has NEVER felt better. Nandrolone has not only lived up to its hype as a joint pain-reliever, but has well surpassed it even. I've got 4 more weeks at this dosage and then I go into my "cruise" control of lower test dosages using Test-Cypionate @300 mgs. weekly. At that time I will also lower my Deca doses down to 150 or 200 mg. weekly merely for the relief it provides.
I see where some guys run it low-dose like this year-round just for the joint pain relief.

That sounds good man, I would love to be able to throw around some significant weight again.

 

[mich29]

great discussion here.def some must read material.

 

[thundergod]

That sounds good man, I would love to be able to throw around some significant weight again.

great discussion here.def some must read material.

A little Deca info for the viewing community:

First of all, Deca-Durabolin (and Nandrolone in general) doesnt produce many estrogenic or androgenic side effects. This is because Deca-Durabolin has a very low rate of aromatization (conversion to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme), roughly equal to 20% the rate of Testosterone.

Also, Ive read many places that Deca-Durabolin stores water in connective tissue, thus alleviating joint pain. I have no idea what "storing water in the joints" means. I have no idea how to really quantify that statement, or where it started. However, in one study of postmenapusal women, Deca impoved collagen synthesis (1), and in another study Deca-Durabolin increased bone mineral content. (2)Both of these studies used VERY low doses, which were far too low to promote muscle growth. In my estimation, based on these 2 studies, an athlete attempting to use Deca only for these two effects (increasing bone mineral content and collagen synthesis) should be using 100mgs of Deca-Durabolin every week. Thats actually a higher dose than those two studies used successfully. Even at of this dose, in HIV+ patients who have experienced significant wasting, a 100mg/E2W (every 2 weeks) injection of Deca resulted in a "significant increase in weight" (5). Id never recommend that low of a dose for an athlete, but its evidence of Decas strong anabolic properties. Deca is a very nice anabolic, causing nice (albeit slow) gains in quality muscle. This could be due to its moderately strong binding to the Androgen Receptor, or its many positive non-Androgen-Receptor mediated effects. One such effect is nitrogen retention, which is a major factor in muscle growth and lean mass gains; in one study, with low-doses (65 mg/week) and high-doses of Deca (200 mg/week), both low-doses and high-doses resulted in significant nitrogen retention (33-52 g nitrogen/14 days, representing gains of 0.5 to 0.9 kg lean tissue/week), and body weight increased by 4.9 +/- 1.2 kg, including 3.1 +/- 0.5 kg lean body mass, and treadmill exercise performance (cardiovascular fitness) also improved (7). Need I say that the higher doses in this study produced more gains? Steroid.com members who have posted their results with Deca-Durabolin confirm this in many posts and threads, with their average reccomendation being to take 400-600mgs/week for muscle gain. I have to agree.

 

[mich29]

A little Deca info for the viewing community:

First of all, Deca-Durabolin (and Nandrolone in general) doesnt produce many estrogenic or androgenic side effects. This is because Deca-Durabolin has a very low rate of aromatization (conversion to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme), roughly equal to 20% the rate of Testosterone.

Also, Ive read many places that Deca-Durabolin stores water in connective tissue, thus alleviating joint pain. I have no idea what "storing water in the joints" means. I have no idea how to really quantify that statement, or where it started. However, in one study of postmenapusal women, Deca impoved collagen synthesis (1), and in another study Deca-Durabolin increased bone mineral content. (2)Both of these studies used VERY low doses, which were far too low to promote muscle growth. In my estimation, based on these 2 studies, an athlete attempting to use Deca only for these two effects (increasing bone mineral content and collagen synthesis) should be using 100mgs of Deca-Durabolin every week. Thats actually a higher dose than those two studies used successfully. Even at of this dose, in HIV+ patients who have experienced significant wasting, a 100mg/E2W (every 2 weeks) injection of Deca resulted in a "significant increase in weight" (5). Id never recommend that low of a dose for an athlete, but its evidence of Decas strong anabolic properties. Deca is a very nice anabolic, causing nice (albeit slow) gains in quality muscle. This could be due to its moderately strong binding to the Androgen Receptor, or its many positive non-Androgen-Receptor mediated effects. One such effect is nitrogen retention, which is a major factor in muscle growth and lean mass gains; in one study, with low-doses (65 mg/week) and high-doses of Deca (200 mg/week), both low-doses and high-doses resulted in significant nitrogen retention (33-52 g nitrogen/14 days, representing gains of 0.5 to 0.9 kg lean tissue/week), and body weight increased by 4.9 +/- 1.2 kg, including 3.1 +/- 0.5 kg lean body mass, and treadmill exercise performance (cardiovascular fitness) also improved (7). Need I say that the higher doses in this study produced more gains? Steroid.com members who have posted their results with Deca-Durabolin confirm this in many posts and threads, with their average reccomendation being to take 400-600mgs/week for muscle gain. I have to agree.

I had a strong feeling this was going to be the next post.:yup:

great read here.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Yah and that's another point my HPTA is still very strong at 52. For me it's my joints giving out. :whiner:

I hear you on the joints.

 

[oufinny]

TG you have put so much good info in here, now I feel like I understand Deca much better and my knees are salavating at the idea of running it. Doug good to hear your progress is continuing, my back has prevented the intensity I would need to win this but I am not throwing in the towel just yet!!!

 

[DreamWeaver]

A little Deca info for the viewing community:

First of all, Deca-Durabolin (and Nandrolone in general) doesnt produce many estrogenic or androgenic side effects. This is because Deca-Durabolin has a very low rate of aromatization (conversion to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme), roughly equal to 20% the rate of Testosterone.

Also, Ive read many places that Deca-Durabolin stores water in connective tissue, thus alleviating joint pain. I have no idea what "storing water in the joints" means. I have no idea how to really quantify that statement, or where it started. However, in one study of postmenapusal women, Deca impoved collagen synthesis (1), and in another study Deca-Durabolin increased bone mineral content. (2)Both of these studies used VERY low doses, which were far too low to promote muscle growth. In my estimation, based on these 2 studies, an athlete attempting to use Deca only for these two effects (increasing bone mineral content and collagen synthesis) should be using 100mgs of Deca-Durabolin every week. Thats actually a higher dose than those two studies used successfully. Even at of this dose, in HIV+ patients who have experienced significant wasting, a 100mg/E2W (every 2 weeks) injection of Deca resulted in a "significant increase in weight" (5). Id never recommend that low of a dose for an athlete, but its evidence of Decas strong anabolic properties. Deca is a very nice anabolic, causing nice (albeit slow) gains in quality muscle. This could be due to its moderately strong binding to the Androgen Receptor, or its many positive non-Androgen-Receptor mediated effects. One such effect is nitrogen retention, which is a major factor in muscle growth and lean mass gains; in one study, with low-doses (65 mg/week) and high-doses of Deca (200 mg/week), both low-doses and high-doses resulted in significant nitrogen retention (33-52 g nitrogen/14 days, representing gains of 0.5 to 0.9 kg lean tissue/week), and body weight increased by 4.9 +/- 1.2 kg, including 3.1 +/- 0.5 kg lean body mass, and treadmill exercise performance (cardiovascular fitness) also improved (7). Need I say that the higher doses in this study produced more gains? Steroid.com members who have posted their results with Deca-Durabolin confirm this in many posts and threads, with their average reccomendation being to take 400-600mgs/week for muscle gain. I have to agree.

Wait an increase in Collagen ? Does that mean it could also benefit the skin ?

 

[DreamWeaver]

TG you have put so much good info in here, now I feel like I understand Deca much better and my knees are salavating at the idea of running it. Doug good to hear your progress is continuing, my back has prevented the intensity I would need to win this but I am not throwing in the towel just yet!!!

Yah I am fighting some stuff too as you guys know. I have been able to keep up but it's been tough.

Got up 5k walk to the gym .. whipped up a batch of the strange brew and the workout was good but I was really short of breath and caved a bit on leg press but everything else was up.

5K walk back then 30 minute on the Elliptical.... then I died

 

[DreamWeaver]

Things are getting tougher, I have a full blown case of Bronchitis now fuggin tough to work out...

Got up a 4:20 this morning, hacked up a bunch of brown crap and did 30 minutes fasted cardio....

Fellt like crap on my 5k walk to work, I am just trying to make it through the day. I started OEP again so that should help out.

On the up side I seem to be improving now and things look ok, still a ton of work to do an this body is pretty broken...fugg I am going to have to earn this one.

I picked up some better steaks at costco, got the big thick sirloins, I will likely convert to milk fed veal next week.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Just a note about my carb up, I had pretty much lost the benefit by Saturday afternoon so 400 grams won't qutie cut it, not that I am surprised, I do have to factor in I would normally have been ingesting maintenance carbs suring the next day. So Anywhere frrom 600 to 800 and I should be good.

 

[oufinny]

Just a note about my carb up, I had pretty much lost the benefit by Saturday afternoon so 400 grams won't qutie cut it, not that I am surprised, I do have to factor in I would normally have been ingesting maintenance carbs suring the next day. So Anywhere frrom 600 to 800 and I should be good.

I am going to do something like that near the end of the contest, a weekly carb up these last few weeks of 600-800 then do about 800-1000, lots of it high GI stuff, before the pics at the end.

 

[DreamWeaver]

I am going to do something like that near the end of the contest, a weekly carb up these last few weeks of 600-800 then do about 800-1000, lots of it high GI stuff, before the pics at the end.

I am having mroe luck with a mixture of carbs, some high GI for sure though.

 

[oufinny]

I am having mroe luck with a mixture of carbs, some high GI for sure though.

Agreed, I did that on the UD2.0, I just like to start with high GI and taper down as the carb up comes to a close.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Agreed, I did that on the UD2.0, I just like to start with high GI and taper down as the carb up comes to a close.

I start off with some baked potatoes, then a couple hours later some pasta and bagels... I then add in some frozen yogurt and chocolate sauce and finish up a couple hours later with some rice with Thai sauce or General Tao sauce... I am going to do a full carb up Friday so see where I am at. I think with the S4 and androhard I am having a hyper reaction to the carbs, I get rock hard. The thing for me is to get the skin thin enough to look harder.

 

[thundergod]

On the up side I seem to be improving now and things look ok, still a ton of work to do an this body is pretty broken...fugg I am going to have to earn this one.

I am going to do something like that near the end of the contest, before the pics at the end.

When is this contest anyway?

 

[oufinny]

When is this contest anyway?

Ongoing, ends April 25th.

 

[thundergod]

Ongoing, ends April 25th.

Ain't long now, home-slice.

Is there going to be a thread where all the contestants will post their pictures?

 

[oufinny]

Ain't long now, home-slice.

Is there going to be a thread where all the contestants will post their pictures?

Well Doug will post his here, mine in my thread and so on. All the contestants are in the NTBM sub-forum where this thread is.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Ain't long now, home-slice.

Is there going to be a thread where all the contestants will post their pictures?

Yah nobody said, I am assuming we just post them in our logs...

 

[thundergod]

Yah nobody said, I am assuming we just post them in our logs...

I actually thought there would be one major thread where all the contestants would post their pics for a comparison. It would certainly make it easier for us spectators if we could see all the contestants in one place and make side-by-side comparisons of their before and after shots to assess individual physique transformation.

And who picks the winner? We the viewing community or the NTBM guys?

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

TG you have put so much good info in here, now I feel like I understand Deca much better and my knees are salavating at the idea of running it. Doug good to hear your progress is continuing, my back has prevented the intensity I would need to win this but I am not throwing in the towel just yet!!!

TG is a great source of info.