I think you kind of miss the point here. PES WAS a company based on results, science, and all the stuff that so many other companies lack. They went AGAINST the industry normal. You created a strong customer base because of that. You had great products that were hard to find.
Now, as a company, you have changed direction. You are going WITH the industry. Great. It makes sense on a couple levels - broader audience, more money (don't act like that isn't a huge factor -no one can fault you for it), and decreased liability (like having issues with stim-based products, like you point out).
It seems to me you think the issue people have with PES is that they changed direction. That isn't really the story. The issue is that PES was once an exciting, reliable, effective, trustworthy company that was UNLIKE everyone else. We had high expectations. Now, you are creating products that are less based on results and science, and more based on profit and catering to people who don't know better. You have become LIKE everyone else in the industry. But the REAL kicker, what really seems to upset people, is your marketing hasn't changed at all. You still act like you are the cutting edge company you once were. That is why people get upset. Your signaling is all wrong - but that is also industry standard. You're more like Muscletech now than PES.
So, when every time you come out with a new product you say it is "novel" or "an industry first" - guess what? Your standards have fallen. Others on here have pointed out that when they mentioned this idea of protein for oats to family members they liked the idea - but what if they were told, "I have this game changing product that will help you get in shape. Protein for oats!!!!" - I think the effect is much different than, "Hey, PES just came out with a protein powder that mixes with oats and has traditional flavors and it's delicious!"
Basically, your customer base USED to be people who knew better. Now, your customer base is people who DON'T know better. Fine. I don't really take it personally. It's sad to see such a great company change, but that's life and others have moved into the market to fill the void. And personally, when I see PES say, "Industry first!" Or "Novel" - it doesn't mean anything to me anymore because I've seen it all for 2 years and I know better. I'm not really let down and it isn't personal....but I've been in the shoes of others where I was excited and then really let down, or worse, wasted my money on your new products.
In other words, I get where you're coming from and I get the people who are disappointed.
None of this is personal against PES or the reps on here, or anyone with the company - except the part where I think it is sad to see them disparage a former employee because things didn't work out - because my interactions with the individuals have been pretty good and respectful and I have respect for those individuals. I just think you're making mistakes with your signaling/customers/approach. And yes, I think some of that is arrogance - we all fall victim to it. It comes with success.
You are absolutely right on a couple of aspects.
Our customer base has indeed changed due to the natural evolution of the industry and our company as a whole. Please keep in mind that we started on this forum pretty much from day one and Anabolic Minds has been part of our journey from that moment right up to where we are now, sold in the largest chains in America as well as in multiple continents.
This absolutely has to come with an emphasis on safety and product compliance. We physically can't grow and make an honest living if we make non compliant products.
Products we made in our early days we physically couldn't make now. They would be non compliant. The industry is evolving and regulatory enforcement is tightening. Growth aside, we don't actually want to make illegal or non compliant products. Companies can literally be crippled from a single FDA raid or product recall.
People associate our change in direction due to members we have had on the team but this is a correlation, not a causation. This is the direction we absolutely have to take if we want to continue making products which we can sell. We couldn't make products we sold in the early days so our formulas have evolved. Contrary to what many people claim on here, the correlation between what products we launch has zero to do with our R&D staff and everything to do with the evolving regulatory climate of the industry which is compounded by our company growth. If we were still a tiny company sold only in small stores we could take more risks with grey area ingredients (not necessarily that we would want to but we could).
My words of clarification regarding previous R&D staff is never intended to be disparaging, I simply have to clear the air when misconceptions are being repeated frequently. R&D staff leaving is not a cause of any change of our formulas because the primary formulator is the person who decides on what we release, always has been and always will be (unless we sold the company). People mistook this clarification as me implying they didn't have important roles in the company or that I didn't respect them. Neither of these are true at all and I hold them both in high regard and wish them luck in their endeavours. Them departing the company does not impact the direction we go in and this is something anyone in the company would agree with as our owner is very much the most influential person in deciding what our product releases are.
Our company policy is extremely different to a lot of companies and we take a lot of pride in this. For example the amount of money we spent on product testing is astronomical including the mandatory pre and post production testing, something I guarantee many companies overlook. This is why we had complete confidence when Stack3d wanted to do a third party test on Select not only for the macronutrient breakdown but also for free form amino acid fillers. This is a thorough and expensive test that many companies don't do but we had full faith in our products and they were welcome to purchase a tub from any retailer and ship it straight to a manufacturer to maintain proper chain of custody. We take pride in our quality control and have dedicated compliance staff to ensure product purity and quality as well as proper wording on labels to make sure any product descriptions and claims are done 100% properly.
Many companies sell new and novel ingredients with no NDI filed and they are welcome to do this, it is simply not the direction we want to go in. We play by a different ruleset to this to ensure and maintain strict compliance and safety for our customers.
As I have said before, all customer needs are different and some people may prefer products from other companies that we don't offer and that is absolutely fine. This is to be expected in any retail industry and the supplement world is no different.
We hold no grudges against customers. If you prefer other products to what we offer or other manufacturers that is absolutely fine and you are entitled to your decision.
I still rock with you PES I always feel "safe" taking your products whereas other companies I dont know what the hell could actually be in it. An example would be blackstone labs, I tested for all kinds of stuff at my job smh and I had a lot of explaining to do but I wont get into detail on this site.
Thank you, I really appreciate that.
Product testing is a hugely expensive cost and something that isn't seen by customers. There have been recent FDA reports on manufacturers skipping vital quality control steps and many companies can get away with this and the customers would have no idea.
Did they actually test the ingredients for purity before they put them in the tub? Did they actually do post production testing to ensure the ingredients are in there at the right dosages?
Just this is a huge cost, especially in formulas with a long list of ingredients yet it is something many customers don't consider.
This being a largely invisible cost to customers (we could spend $100,000k+ per year on product testing versus company B who spends it on marketing, as an example). We would have done what is best for you as the consumer to ensure proper product purity and safety yet company B will be the one who gets the most in terms of sales and exposure. Despite this cost not being something that most customers are aware of we still embark on it because it is the proper thing to do. It is in the best interests of our customers because it is the only way a company can guarantee that the product they are selling is exactly what they claim it is on the label.
This is sometimes why it is potentially misleading to assume profit margins and comparative costs between products from two manufacturers. If company A sells an ingredient and company B sells it cheaper at the same dose, company A aren't necessarily earning more profit if they are following quality control steps that company B isn't. I have seen our products compared to similar products from other companies yet there are instances when we have actually paid to have their products tested and they fell short of label claims (or had a different ingredient altogether). However for legal reasons we never divulge the test results of a competitor so occasionally our products are unfavourably compared cost wise to products even when we know that ours hits label claims and theirs does not lol.
Public examples of this include the paper on yohimbe;
The quantity of the most active alkaloid, yohimbine, per recommended serving ranged from none detected to 12.1 mg. Thirty-nine percent of the supplements (19/49) did not contain rauwolscine and corynanthine suggesting that the yohimbine was either from highly processed plant extract or synthetic in origin. Only 11 supplement brands (22%, 11/49) listed a specific quantity of yohimbine on the label. Most of these were inaccurately labelled (actual content ranged from 23% to 147% of the content on the label).
Another example is DMBA when some supplements allegedly tested with different amounts to what was listed on the label (in some instances no ingredient detected at all). The paper is subscription only but you can see the results box here;
https://blog.priceplow.com/supplement-news/genomyx-amp-citrate
There are obviously multiple reports of this on whey protein testing as well with a large number of products allegedly falling significantly below the numbers they quote on the label. This has been in the public spotlight due to some class action lawsuits.
We take our product testing extremely seriously and pride ourselves on providing supplements with an extremely high level of quality control. After all, if you can't guarantee that the contents of the tub match the label can you confidently believe that the formula is as impressive as the label looks?
