New Monster Hormone

[sublimejeh]

Nice! I'm excited to see results with oxy, i got some on the way for my recomp/cut!

 

[lanky]

yeahright...I'll get you that information in a bit...it's says something beach California I think...I'll get it for you today...

Spectra Force Research, LLC,
Newport Beach, CA 92660

 

[yeahright]

hmmm...7 days might not have been a fair assessment,,i was so excited that my bottle of oxyguno came a week later that i just had to try it in the name of science..i was dosing the hemaguno at 50-62mg a day (almost tripple of what bottle reccomends)..I had to try and troubleshoot on what the problem was with this product,,,was it a problem with absorbtion? tried dosing before meals,,with meals, after meals,,empty stomach,,chewing the pills...

underdosed possibly.

maybe does not contain anything or messed up on the synth

maybe absorbtion problem.

something is fishy about the PH industry these days.

btw i did try the mass fx for about two weeks,,,i have to admit my libido was up,,up 2lbs as well...i smelled funny though.

i am going to bump up the oxyguno to 6 pills a day

Just my opinion but many of these products are working their effects in ways that aren't obvious to the user at first. Subtle changes at the molecular level aren't going to be noticeable in the way that downing a stim will.

You may want to hold off wildly playing around with the dosages....just do a slow and steady progression to see what happens.

 

[DR.D]

... spent about $110 on both...I dont know what is up with the PH's these days,,,not doing much of anything for me..mass fx made me horny though

Epi and MFX is a horny combo for sure. 5x/d? Why not make it 6! Your woman may be talkin' a lot of smack the first few days if she's like mine, but not much after that. (lol) :thumbsup:

 

[DR.D]

... maybe does not contain anything or messed up on the synth

maybe absorbtion problem.

something is fishy about the PH industry these days. ...

Yes, something is fishy alright, but it will all be uncovered in time. As for the Ox, I'll have it tested with in the next 2 wks. Since I do not have a standard, maybe I should say three weeks to insure proper assay confirmation.

 

[Alpine]

Yes, something is fishy alright, but it will all be uncovered in time. As for the Ox, I'll have it tested with in the next 2 wks. Since I do not have a standard, maybe I should say three weeks to insure proper assay confirmation.

A great service to the community! Thank you

 

[lanky]

Yes, something is fishy alright, but it will all be uncovered in time. As for the Ox, I'll have it tested with in the next 2 wks. Since I do not have a standard, maybe I should say three weeks to insure proper assay confirmation.

this i have to see

 

[poopypants]

Amen to that! The stigma with steroids has gotten crazy. Hoodia's active ingredient is a steroid (that kills appetite) and fenugreek's main active is a steroid (that lowers cholesterol) so are all the capillary protecants, sterols or flavones. There are steroids that improve glucose and insulin tolerance, prevent cell differentiation and promote cancer cell apoptosis, burn fat, protect the prostate, ect, ect.. all good stuff! It's time to quit being so one sided and start studying these compounds again.

i know this is pulling up an old post but they also give a drug to prevent labor to mothers that are expected to birth preterm while keeping them on another steroid that will accelerate lung growth in the baby.... a babies total chance of surviving in preterm is wether or not its lungs are functional, this saved my nephew.

why they look at research of steroids as not being as useful as they can be just shows their ignorance of the widespread benifits such research could possibly bring.....

 

[poopypants]

what is everyone's feeling about the effect of Oxyguno on libido?

I know it is not very androgenic but neither is Epi and it seems to boost libido (at least in other's reports).......

Mr.50

def true @ day 7.... should prob log that.... my preggers fiance isnt that happy.... too much pooper for her right now:sad:

 

[macedaddy]

i hope it wasn't IN her pooper! :jaw: :toofunny:

 

[poopypants]

i hope it wasn't IN her pooper! :jaw: :toofunny:

lol never have never will, not my style to get a s***ty d!ck when theres a perf good spot for it to go right there.....:stick:

sorry for the jack.....

 

[sublimejeh]

lol never have never will, not my style to get a s***ty d!ck when theres a perf good spot for it to go right there.....:stick:

sorry for the jack.....

hahahaha suuuuure. J/k

 

[poopypants]

Yes, something is fishy alright, but it will all be uncovered in time. As for the Ox, I'll have it tested with in the next 2 wks. Since I do not have a standard, maybe I should say three weeks to insure proper assay confirmation.

yes this will be interesting to see if its up to the hype esp. when this is the same thing you said coulndt be made by someone else with the bact., did i read that right???

 

[lanky]

11keto clostebol

 

[lanky]

17a methyl 11keto clostebol

 

[TeamSavage]

well, androgenicity isnt always equal to libido support. look at tren - VERY androgenic but kills libido. and superdrol has very little androgenicity but for most users, doesnt cause much libido loss. ditto for anavar.

I think the fact that tren is a progesterone changes the androgenicity/libido equation. Non-progesterone substances with high androgenicity generally boost libido quite a bit.

As for Superdrol and other orals, low androgenicity could actually be a benefit for libido. The low androgenicity will equal low suppression, which means you can retain much of your natty test production (and thus libido) over a 3-4 week cycle. I imagine if you took Superdrol for 12 weeks (bad idea!), your libido would be pretty dead by the end.

 

[macedaddy]

where you been, savage?

 

[sublimejeh]

I imagine if you took Superdrol for 12 weeks (bad idea!), your libido would be pretty dead by the end.

:jaw:

Yes it would be haha

 

[DR.D]

A great service to the community! Thank you

My pleasure. I'm an analyst, this is what I do. Beside that, I already have my suspicions about this stuff, seeing as how I could not get it made contaminant free enough at 2 of the best labs I know of in China. I guess it's fine with SFR if I post results. Nobody has contacted me to object and I'm sure they have nothing to hide anyway (except who they are of course!) but since SFR doesn't seem to enjoy the public spotlight, maybe this will help pull them out of the "shadows" where they aren't so shy if I post a detailed report of their lab results, MS/GC, FTIR, UV/Vis, the works. I'm already in analytical mode writing up my Epi results anyway, may as well.

 

[DR.D]

i know this is pulling up an old post but they also give a drug to prevent labor to mothers that are expected to birth preterm while keeping them on another steroid that will accelerate lung growth in the baby.... a babies total chance of surviving in preterm is wether or not its lungs are functional, this saved my nephew.

why they look at research of steroids as not being as useful as they can be just shows their ignorance of the widespread benifits such research could possibly bring.....

Amen! The doc sent me home with 2 vials of Dexamethasone PO4 when my wife was preg with our last little girl. She had me inject her 12mg/12hrs over a whole w/e before our daughter was born, just because it looked like she may be premature. Of course, I had my wife on so much fish oil, she walked around for almost a month and a half at 3cm. The doc said she'd never seen anything like it! (lol) But my little Phatty Pie was a more than healthy 9lb baby, and that was 2wks early too.

But yeah, it's time steroids get some good press because like you say, they save 1000's of lives every day and help so many people. They're practically everywhere too, as I pointed out, in many of the supps and herbs we use every day.

 

[Mr.50]

Thanks Dr.D.


By the way does anyone have any guesses on the type of action expected from the Furzabol ethyl-ester? Based on its structure of course........

I have never even heard of the results obtained by anyone running a high enough dose of regular Furzabol.

Mr.50

 

[DR.D]

yes this will be interesting to see if its up to the hype esp. when this is the same thing you said coulndt be made by someone else with the bact., did i read that right???

Well I just found out from my lab that 11-OH-diol is available as a commercial starter now! So it looks like this will be happening after all as this overcomes one of the synthesis issues and makes the prep less expensive. What do you say? If you guys like this stuff, would you be interested in me bringing this with another company? Cheaper, at a higher dose maybe?!

 

[DR.D]

Thanks Dr.D.


By the way does anyone have any guesses on the type of action expected from the Furzabol ethyl-ester? Based on its structure of course........

I have never even heard of the results obtained by anyone running a high enough dose of regular Furzabol.

Mr.50

It was a real stupid choice if you ask me. Weak and expensive, so it will be way under dosed like prostan was. If there was something special about it that would be one thing, but a non-methyl androisoxazole would have been much more exciting. This company not only needs a way better PR guy, they need a better chemist and formulator too!
:trout:

 

[poopypants]

Well I just found out from my lab that 11-OH-diol is available as a commercial starter now! So it looks like this will be happening after all as this overcomes one of the synthesis issues and makes the prep less expensive. What do you say? If you guys like this stuff, would you be interested in me bringing this with another company? Cheaper, at a higher dose maybe?!

n maybe a certain pooper can help ya alpha when hes done fighting his gyno.....:stick:lol

 

[lanky]

Well I just found out from my lab that 11-OH-diol is available as a commercial starter now! So it looks like this will be happening after all as this overcomes one of the synthesis issues and makes the prep less expensive. What do you say? If you guys like this stuff, would you be interested in me bringing this with another company? Cheaper, at a higher dose maybe?!

as of right now the oxyguno is not doing anything for me...first things first, we need to find out if it contains anything at all. If by some reason the product magicly starts to work within the next two weeks then yes i will be very interested. then changes can be made on dosage and frequency.

 

[DR.D]

as of right now the oxyguno is not doing anything for me...first things first, we need to find out if it contains anything at all. If by some reason the product magicly starts to work within the next two weeks then yes i will be very interested. then changes can be made on dosage and frequency.

Yes, if it was legit, it should be doing something obvious at 37.5mg. That's what you're on right? Sounds bunk or underdosed to me, that's the first thing I think of, but don't write off the compound so fast, it could just be the brand.

 

[TeamSavage]

where you been, savage?

The titty bar. They don't have Internet access there, so...

 

[sublimejeh]

Oh goodness! the craziness Mace brings out in ppl!

 

[same_old]

I think the fact that tren is a progesterone changes the androgenicity/libido equation. Non-progesterone substances with high androgenicity generally boost libido quite a bit.

point taken...i dont have any clue why that's the case, really, but it appears to hold up to user feedback (max-lmg, m-dien, and that other goofy tren analog all cause some libido issues in many users, at reasonable doses)

As for Superdrol and other orals, low androgenicity could actually be a benefit for libido. The low androgenicity will equal low suppression, which means you can retain much of your natty test production (and thus libido) over a 3-4 week cycle.

this i dont go along with. androgenicity has almost nothing to do with suppression. however, most of these high androgenic steroids do not aromatize, which means estrogen will drop, which means less ER activation/feedback, which DOES equal less suppression...but again it has nothing to do with androgenicity.

lanky - are you the same lanky from steroid.com?

and to address the "week on this, week on that" reports - please spare us these. it's just no way to evaluate a product, and points to a greater problem in administration. juicing is executing a well-developed plan, not switching every other week just for the he11 of it.

 

[macedaddy]

Well I just found out from my lab that 11-OH-diol is available as a commercial starter now! So it looks like this will be happening after all as this overcomes one of the synthesis issues and makes the prep less expensive. What do you say? If you guys like this stuff, would you be interested in me bringing this with another company? Cheaper, at a higher dose maybe?!

I'm there! Bring it out, D!:dance:

 

[motiv8er]

Amen! The doc sent me home with 2 vials of Dexamethasone PO4 when my wife was preg with our last little girl. She had me inject her 12mg/12hrs over a whole w/e before our daughter was born, just because it looked like she may be premature. Of course, I had my wife on so much fish oil, she walked around for almost a month and a half at 3cm. The doc said she'd never seen anything like it! (lol) But my little Phatty Pie was a more than healthy 9lb baby, and that was 2wks early too.

But yeah, it's time steroids get some good press because like you say, they save 1000's of lives every day and help so many people. They're practically everywhere too, as I pointed out, in many of the supps and herbs we use every day.

9 lbs!!! You better still be getting the wifey fresh flowers and doing housework for delivering a massive, sweet angel of that size!!

 

[lanky]

point taken...i dont have any clue why that's the case, really, but it appears to hold up to user feedback (max-lmg, m-dien, and that other goofy tren analog all cause some libido issues in many users, at reasonable doses)


this i dont go along with. androgenicity has almost nothing to do with suppression. however, most of these high androgenic steroids do not aromatize, which means estrogen will drop, which means less ER activation/feedback, which DOES equal less suppression...but again it has nothing to do with androgenicity.

lanky - are you the same lanky from steroid.com?

and to address the "week on this, week on that" reports - please spare us these. it's just no way to evaluate a product, and points to a greater problem in administration. juicing is executing a well-developed plan, not switching every other week just for the he11 of it.

I am not the same lanky from steroid.com ..I have been at elitefitness.com for the past 6 years, and a recent account here and at anabolicx..I understand your concern with the issue of the duration of my testing a product.. i have a good idea if a product holds any anabolic activity,,your views are noted and my future testing products will run longer.

 

[TeamSavage]

this i dont go along with. androgenicity has almost nothing to do with suppression. however, most of these high androgenic steroids do not aromatize, which means estrogen will drop, which means less ER activation/feedback, which DOES equal less suppression...but again it has nothing to do with androgenicity.

It's my understanding that estrogen-related activity is just one pathway to suppression, with AR activation/feedback being just as (if not more) important. If the ER activation/feedback was dominant in suppression, you could avoid suppression altogether just by taking a strong AI with all your cycles.

 

[macedaddy]

NOW we have some good discussion! LOL!

 

[yeahright]

It was a real stupid choice if you ask me. Weak and expensive, so it will be way under dosed like prostan was. If there was something special about it that would be one thing, but a non-methyl androisoxazole would have been much more exciting. This company not only needs a way better PR guy, they need a better chemist and formulator too!
:trout:

I'd defer to you people who understand these things but if this compounds retains the HDL lifting properties of the base substance, it could be a very valuable stacking compound even if its intrinsic anabolic activity is limited.

 

[same_old]

It's my understanding that estrogen-related activity is just one pathway to suppression, with AR activation/feedback being just as (if not more) important. If the ER activation/feedback was dominant in suppression, you could avoid suppression altogether just by taking a strong AI with all your cycles.

i never said anything contrary to that...the assumption is that an anabolic steroid used by men is going to bind to the AR. i am pretty sure we all assume that. if it also binds to (or has byproducts that bind to) other receptors, then suppression will increase....at least, this is the presently held belief of [much of] the community.

lanky - sorry, i DID mean EF, not steroid.com. beaker avatar right? if so, let me just say that i have valued your contributions over there (i have a different username there) over the last couple years. you're an asset to this board. now stop being so damn impulsive with your steroids i know they're fun, but you gotta give em a chance!

oxyguno, if it's anything like its very close relative tbol, will take a little while to knock your socks off. my best weeks on it are 3-5, and i dont see a whole helluva lot during the first week. but the gains are so freaking clean, i'd wait as long as i had to!

 

[Alpine]

Well I just found out from my lab that 11-OH-diol is available as a commercial starter now! So it looks like this will be happening after all as this overcomes one of the synthesis issues and makes the prep less expensive. What do you say? If you guys like this stuff, would you be interested in me bringing this with another company? Cheaper, at a higher dose maybe?!

Yes....

 

[TeamSavage]

i never said anything contrary to that...the assumption is that an anabolic steroid used by men is going to bind to the AR. i am pretty sure we all assume that. if it also binds to (or has byproducts that bind to) other receptors, then suppression will increase....at least, this is the presently held belief of [much of] the community.

Then I'm not sure I understand your statement, "androgenicity has almost nothing to do with suppression." What we refer to as "androgenicity" is based primarily on AR binding (except for perhaps progesterone-like compounds), and is thus closely correlated with suppression via the AR activation/feedback loop. If something is highly androgenic, it can still be quite suppressive even if it doens't aromatize. Perhaps you can clarify.

Obviously, something that is highly androgenic but does not aromatize will be less suppressive than something that is equally androgenic but also has estrogenic activity. But all other things being equal, a highly androgenic compound will generally be far more suppressive than a not-so-androgenic compound.

My original point was that the reason Superdrol isn't very androgenic but still doesn't cause libido loss is because it isn't very androgenic (and neither does it aromatize or have progesterone-related activity), so it just isn't that suppressive over short-cycles. Libido on-cycle is a function of both endogenous and exogenous androgenicity, the first of which declines over the course of a cycle as a function of suppression. Something that's not very androgenic but not very suppressive either will not cause much libido loss over a short-cycle because endogenous androgenicity remains more-or-less intact. (Like I said, suppression still occurs, however, so I imagine that a 12-wk Superdrol cycle would be a libido killer, as by the end endogenous androgenicity would be greatly suppressed and Superdrol would provide little exogenous androgenicity to replace it.)

 

[DR.D]

I'd defer to you people who understand these things but if this compounds retains the HDL lifting properties of the base substance, it could be a very valuable stacking compound even if its intrinsic anabolic activity is limited.

Indeed you are correct good Sir. Unfortunately, at the anabolic dose, it may not retain this benefit whether methylated or not. Using a low dose as a stacking partner may offer some advantage though, as you say. It will be interesting nonetheless in one way or another.

 

[same_old]

Then I'm not sure I understand your statement, "androgenicity has almost nothing to do with suppression." What we refer to as "androgenicity" is based primarily on AR binding (except for perhaps progesterone-like compounds), and is thus closely correlated with suppression via the AR activation/feedback loop. If something is highly androgenic, it can still be quite suppressive even if it doens't aromatize. Perhaps you can clarify.

i will try. it sounds like you are a little confused on the term "androgenicity"...it is used around here to indicate the presence of "assorted" typically non-muscular effects of a steroid. things like acne, hairloss, aggression, CNS stim, prostate aggravation, elevated libido...basically, all the things that DHT does normally in your un-juiced body. these things are virtually all independent of muscle hypertrophy.

labs measure androgenicity very simply - prostate weight. the prostate is a big target for DHT and other androgenic hormones, which makes it a fair model for evaluation.

"anabolic" activity (the other dimension of a steroid, if we are to believe there are only 2!) is basically how much actual muscle a steroid can put on you - simple as that.

neither of these dimensions has much to do with suppression. both "high anabolics" (tbol, var, anadrol) and "high androgens" (MDHT, proviron, masteron) that dont aromatize...(notice i am leaving our progestins for clarity)....bind to the AR exclusively, and that binding affinity, coupled with duration, SHBG binding and a few other issues, will be the primary drivers for suppression. how anabolic or androgenic a steroid is doesnt have much bearing.

Obviously, something that is highly androgenic but does not aromatize will be less suppressive than something that is equally androgenic but also has estrogenic activity. But all other things being equal, a highly androgenic compound will generally be far more suppressive than a not-so-androgenic compound.

you can see from my above explanation that this just isnt the case....look at proviron. it's almost completely androgenic on paper and in vivo, but barely suppresses at all (its effects are mediated by its very strong SHBG binding affinity, but that's another issue)....1-T isnt very androgenic, yet it is PLENTY suppressive, mainly due to its strength. it also doesnt support libido for sh1t, again due to its lack of androgenicity...and you can ask any of the guys who were suppressed for months afterwards if they thought 1-T wasnt suppressive!

have i made it reasonably clear?

 

[mmowry]

Well I just found out from my lab that 11-OH-diol is available as a commercial starter now! So it looks like this will be happening after all as this overcomes one of the synthesis issues and makes the prep less expensive. What do you say? If you guys like this stuff, would you be interested in me bringing this with another company? Cheaper, at a higher dose maybe?!

Ill be your Huckelberry Doc!

 

[Mass_69]

have i made it reasonably clear?

Yes, that was a very good explanation. It sounds like there was just a difference in defining "androgenic" - Androgenic effects vs. AR Binding.

I still think there is a very close link between the 2. You mentioned that the labs refer to androgenicity by the prostate weight, and the prostate does have a higher concentration of ARs than most tissues. I assume that contributes to the prostates growth.

Then there are the progestin factors... but I'm kinda just blabbing, and don't know enough facts on their interaction to speak on the subject...

 

[evan]

same old, while i know the term "anabolic" is usually associate with
adding muscle tissue, in my opinion this statement is not one hundred percent accurate and in "my " opinion leads to a lot of confusion.

going back to basic biology the term anabolic is a broad term meaning the body is in an "overall"enery storing state. While this can involove the adding of muscle, does it have to. something that puts the body in a surplus mode to store fat or water or build bone would also fall under the term anabolic.
take testosterone and estrogen when used in supraphisiologial doses both put the body in a temporary storage mode and both are anabolic, however we almost never label estroen as an anabolic(usually as the more specific term lipogenic)

While i understand your point to illustrate anabolic=growth androgenic=increase in male(dht>estrogen) characteristics
anabolic means growth as a whole not just muscle growth

I personally prefer the terms myo-trophic or myo-genic. this would define something as adding muscle tissue . not just putting the body in the enviroment to grow

 

[DR.D]

Ill be your Huckelberry Doc!

Man, you know you'll be in on it, as if you even had a choice! (j/k)

Seriously, you get the ultra high dose regime. Somebody has to do it, and these guys will love you for your selfless sacrifice in the name of science and testing. lol

How about some 3-AD in the meantime? Ohhhh yeahhh!

 

[macedaddy]

NO, he doesn't! SORRY!

 

[macedaddy]

hehe

 

[lanky]

Man, you know you'll be in on it, as if you even had a choice! (j/k)

Seriously, you get the ultra high dose regime. Somebody has to do it, and these guys will love you for your selfless sacrifice in the name of science and testing. lol

How about some 3-AD in the meantime? Ohhhh yeahhh!

1-ene possibly? what type of things do we have going on on carbon 3 my friend?

one request, 2 ingredients or less.

 

[TeamSavage]

have i made it reasonably clear?

Yup, now I understand your point much more clearly.

 

[DR.D]

1-ene possibly? what type of things do we have going on on carbon 3 my friend?

one request, 2 ingredients or less.

I'd like to spill the beans, but Mace is following me around with his seek and destroy gag orders! :bruce1:

 

[sublimejeh]

I'd like to spill the beans, but Mace is following me around with his seek and destroy gag orders! :bruce1:

hahaha Gosh calm down mace, we don't want DrD to get mad!