Neoborn's Formestane / EForm FAQ...

[prld2gr8ns]

cel's new td formestane is the equivalent of e-form. 3gms formestane in 4oz carrier, pre-mixed formestane is back.:fest30:

The good stuff always comes back doesn't it T.

 

[Ninjo]

I'm currently doing a 2 day a week Havoc pulse and using 40mg/day (i.e. 2 sprays) of e-form on my off days.

 

[Mach .78]

How's that working out for you?

 

[thebigt]

The good stuff always comes back doesn't it T.

always good to hear from you, dustin. drop in and add your thoughts to my formestane log.

 

[Ninjo]

How's that working out for you?

so far so good...I'm two weeks in and only dosing Havoc on Sat and Sun...I'm more or less following Lyle McDonald's Ultimate Diet 2.0 and taking the e-form on my low-carb/low-cal days (i.e. Mon - Fri). I start my carb-load mid-day Friday and Sat and Sun are my "Power" workouts (i.e. I'm doing a 2-day split instead of the full body workout prescribed in the UD2). Lovin' it so far!

 

[superstar]

Can TD formestane be used continuously when on TRT? Instead of arimidex. Or better to cycle it with Hyperdrol like Dr D suggested? Anybody ever get the formestane compounded by a compounding pharmacy?

 

[prld2gr8ns]

Can TD formestane be used continuously when on TRT? Instead of arimidex. Or better to cycle it with Hyperdrol like Dr D suggested? Anybody ever get the formestane compounded by a compounding pharmacy?

If your asking if it can replace arimidex yes. It should fill that gap quit nicely.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

so far so good...I'm two weeks in and only dosing Havoc on Sat and Sun...I'm more or less following Lyle McDonald's Ultimate Diet 2.0 and taking the e-form on my low-carb/low-cal days (i.e. Mon - Fri). I start my carb-load mid-day Friday and Sat and Sun are my "Power" workouts (i.e. I'm doing a 2-day split instead of the full body workout prescribed in the UD2). Lovin' it so far!

Bump on this... how's the pulse with Form still working for you Ninjo? What are you noticing with it?

 

[Ninjo]

Bump on this... how's the pulse with Form still working for you Ninjo? What are you noticing with it?

Hey!...pulse is going great actually...I'm only taking the Havoc on Saturday and Sunday while on a slightly modified UD 2.0 protocol...using 20 mg (one spray) of E-form twice a day on OFF days (i.e. Mon - Fri) for a total of 40 mg per day..."bounce" is noticable during the week due to the form and at this dosage, my joints are still fine (i.e. not drying out)...one thing I did notice is that, when I started using a new bottle of E-form (because the one I had been using ran out), I get an energy rush shortly after dosing...I didn't get this with the previous bottle...not sure why...anyway, really enjoying it...tempted to boost the E-form to 4 sprays a day but I'm not sure.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

Awesome to hear man. If its effective at that dosage I say stick with it unless you feel like experiencing a more pronounced effect in the area of test boosting.

 

[Ninjo]

Awesome to hear man. If its effective at that dosage I say stick with it unless you feel like experiencing a more pronounced effect in the area of test boosting.

Agreed...I think I need to leave well enough alone!

 

[prld2gr8ns]

Agreed...I think I need to leave well enough alone!

LOL, just remember... NO MEANS NO!!!:hump:

 

[jdev]

Is there anything I could get at a drugstore to help the form to dissolve? I can't find anyplace nearby with BA or DMSO.
I've tried getting it in the solution twice, but its still really grainy, and I don't get the effect BigT was talking about.

 

[thebigt]

Is there anything I could get at a drugstore to help the form to dissolve? I can't find anyplace nearby with BA or DMSO.
I've tried getting it in the solution twice, but its still really grainy, and I don't get the effect BigT was talking about.

haha, i am not kidding. dr.d said putting a small amout of minoxydl [sp] or rogaine will help absorption. or you could just get cel's td formestane-already mixed and ready to go.

 

[jdev]

while it makes sense that minoxidil can help for absorption, I was wondering more about the dissolving of form in the solution. Even if the absorption is increased, if the form is undissolved, it won't be absorbed.

 

[thebigt]

while it makes sense that minoxidil can help for absorption, I was wondering more about the dissolving of form in the solution. Even if the absorption is increased, if the form is undissolved, it won't be absorbed.

did you try heating it? put the solution in a bottle or jar that wont melt, put it in a pan with water, heat until almost boiling shake or stir while heating, let it cool shake well before using. cel' td formestane is available for around $30, no fuss no muss. can't really see where you save that much mixing it yourself with all the hassle, ive done it but with form pre-mixed always seems to work better.

 

[jdev]

I already have penetrate 2 and form, so i'd hate to waste that. yup followed the directions on NP, heated it almost to boiling for 10 minutes.
I was looking at the ingredients for penetrate 2 tho, whats the solvent in it? there doesn't seem to be BA or DMSO, so what do they use?

 

[prld2gr8ns]

I already have penetrate 2 and form, so i'd hate to waste that. yup followed the directions on NP, heated it almost to boiling for 10 minutes.
I was looking at the ingredients for penetrate 2 tho, whats the solvent in it? there doesn't seem to be BA or DMSO, so what do they use?

Your best bet would probably be getting some 90 or 99% isopropyl OH at your local Target or wall mart store and adding 2-3mls to your solution. I recently purchased the bulk form and P2 and got the grainy solution as well.(this still after multiple hot baths and hard shaking). I got my order of Transdermal form from CEL and got no grains what so ever. Putting two and two together I figured I would add one to the other to help with dissolving, and what do you know. The solvents in Trans-Form help dissolve the rest of my homebrew solution after a simple hot bath. So Iso prop, and BA does indeed do the trick.:thumbsup:

 

[thebigt]

Your best bet would probably be getting some 90 or 99% isopropyl OH at your local Target or wall mart store and adding 2-3mls to your solution. I recently purchased the bulk form and P2 and got the grainy solution as well.(this still after multiple hot baths and hard shaking). I got my order of Transdermal form from CEL and got no grains what so ever. Putting two and two together I figured I would add one to the other to help with dissolving, and what do you know. The solvents in Trans-Form help dissolve the rest of my homebrew solution after a simple hot bath. So Iso prop, and BA does indeed do the trick.:thumbsup:

aha-so you've tried the new cel td formestane, opinions.

 

[MK9]

I went looking for Isopropyl Alcohol yesterday and found the bulk of the lot was 70% only, but I came across "rubbing compound" which is @ 95%, and the ingredient is ethanol. Is this a suitable substitute for isopropyl?
MK9

 

[prld2gr8ns]

aha-so you've tried the new cel td formestane, opinions.

I'm a sucker for anything that has a lotion like consistency. Seems to go easier, dry quicker, with less irritation to the skin the the old liquid based formulas. I like it.:thumbsup:

 

[thebigt]

I'm a sucker for anything that has a lotion like consistency. Seems to go easier, dry quicker, with less irritation to the skin the the old liquid based formulas. I like it.:thumbsup:

i agree, it seems much less irritating to skin over an extended time of using. i also like the pump, and believe that cel's may be a stronger version-might be the improved carrier?

 

[thebigt]

non-western society. Others argue that Japan has become distinctly more western as a r

????????wtf...:dunno:

 

[BodyWizard]

Thought I'd put in a good word about the formestane powder NP is currently offering.

It's really superior to the crystalline form I had from Bulk Nutrition (back in the days of Mike), which needed much grinding and solvents and what-not. By comparison, the current NP form just disappears into the proper amount of Phlo-Jel, applies without grit or residue, and absorption is first-rate.

Have not tried it in the new Penetrate, being a PJ kinda guy, but those who have liked it, too.

 

[Ninjo]

Thought I'd put in a good word about the formestane powder NP is currently offering.

It's really superior to the crystalline form I had from Bulk Nutrition (back in the days of Mike), which needed much grinding and solvents and what-not. By comparison, the current NP form just disappears into the proper amount of Phlo-Jel, applies without grit or residue, and absorption is first-rate.

Have not tried it in the new Penetrate, being a PJ kinda guy, but those who have liked it, too.

Good to know as I plan on picking some up when my stash of E-form is depleted...still got a bottle and a half to go.

 

[thebigt]

Thought I'd put in a good word about the formestane powder NP is currently offering.

It's really superior to the crystalline form I had from Bulk Nutrition (back in the days of Mike), which needed much grinding and solvents and what-not. By comparison, the current NP form just disappears into the proper amount of Phlo-Jel, applies without grit or residue, and absorption is first-rate.

Have not tried it in the new Penetrate, being a PJ kinda guy, but those who have liked it, too.

wow-you are old school, doubt many even know about phlo-jel. btw mike has a new site selling just bulk powders.

 

[BodyWizard]

Really? I wondered where he got to!

Phlo-Jel is great stuff. Yes, other things work, too....

 

[trackstud100m]

So each pump yeilds roughly 10.4mg formestane? :think:

Where do you get 10.4mg, I thought it was 20-23mg per pump

 

[luclyluciano]

:ey bigT and others. Are the extra 2 grams in the NP Form worth the effort to self-mix? I mean, does it max the solution more powerfull or last loger compared to Cel's Form. 5 grams from NP vs 3 grams is better than 50% more! What do you guys say?

 

[mattikus]

If you can get it in the mix, do it! Yes, you could make it last longer if you wish.

 

[thebigt]

:ey bigT and others. Are the extra 2 grams in the NP Form worth the effort to self-mix? I mean, does it max the solution more powerfull or last loger compared to Cel's Form. 5 grams from NP vs 3 grams is better than 50% more! What do you guys say?

lucky, imho mixing yourself is hit or miss. i recommend buying the pre-mix. i have used cel's form and can verify it is every bit as good or better than e-form. go with the sure thing. believe me it is plenty strong enough.:147:

 

[Tomahawk88]

Sub for later reading.

 

[AdelV]

interesting...

 

[soontobbeast]

question : if im taking 1200mg ( 3 caps ) divanex and doing about 40mg formestane 2x a day for about 40 days, what happens when i get off of both?

will/when will my t and E levels go back to normal after cessation?

any possible long lasting sides?

 

[alwaysgaining]

question : if im taking 1200mg ( 3 caps ) divanex and doing about 40mg formestane 2x a day for about 40 days, what happens when i get off of both?

will/when will my t and E levels go back to normal after cessation?

any possible long lasting sides?

yes they will drop back to normal but, that slithly deppend on how u train, eat , sleep

 

[juicedgrapes]

Just want to report on my recent Formestane experience.

I was ON for about 2 weeks, 4 squirts a day, and stopd because I started to get freckles/moles in places I've never gotten freckles before. Well, not these huge ones anyways. I don't go out in the sun at all because I burn/get freckles then the freckles dont go away. These freckles are different though, I thought they were moles and went to the skin doc, she said they were freckles.

I got them in the areas I applied the solution.

Just letting you know. The CEL version I used was awesome though, strength gains, size, I loved it.

 

[juicedgrapes]

actually, I think it could've been the hyperdrol I was taking for a couple days to try and not use as much formestane. I stopd the formestane recently and then started hyperdrol by itself, I think i'm seeing new freckles again so i'm going to stop everything, then use one product by itself for a few weeks to see if I notice anything.

So don't jump to conclusions on the form as it may be the hyperdrol. I thought for sure it was the form because of the skin application but, I used it for a week and then at the end of the 2nd week I added a pill or 2 of hyperdrol a day while decreasing the amt of form. I stopd the hyperdrol because I started to shed and prostate swelld up. Wasnt thinking it was what is causing these freckles but it may be because i'm still seeing new marks on my skin. I'll know in a few weeks.

 

[stumbras]

aha-so you've tried the new cel td formestane, opinions.

Is it better on or of cycle?

 

[juicedgrapes]

It's a very effective supplement. thebigt is going to tell you it's great by itself, which it is. He loves Form like a fat kid loves cake, probably more so.

I'm going to take it weeks 3 and 4 and 2 weeks into PCT taperd down in my next cycle along with a proper PCT.

I've used it as a standalone and noticed results. It gets you size and more cut up.

 

[User12321]

I'm not sure if this has been asked yet or not, but why can't formestane be mixed with just 70/30 DMSO cream? Is it really necessary to use Penetrate as well?

 

[User12321]

I'm not sure if this has been asked yet or not, but why can't formestane be mixed with just 70/30 DMSO cream? Is it really necessary to use Penetrate as well?

bump

 

[phaeton66]

Bump on them dudes who were going to stack TNE or other forms of test with some formestane. On paper it sounds great, but I'd rather someone else tries it first. Works great with a mini pulse. Works great with divanil. Will it continue to work great if I mix it up with some fina and TNE? If it did, that would be, like, really great. I mean, I have letro handy, but I hate that shyeah.

Any experiences with test? Anyone, Bueller?

 

[ritchy]

So does it matter which type of dmso you add in with the penetrate? I was on ebay and they have 3 different kinds. Anything in particular to look out for when buying this stuff?

 

[narraboth]

I did an experiment today in my lab.

1g of formestane
2ml DMSO
3ml 99% isoyl alcohol
15ml 99% ethanol (alcohol)

dissolved at 80*C
then I added in some water.
Cloudy immediately.

So I spinned down the powder from liquid, let's say there are 0.6g there (seems quite a lot in there)
then I increased the ratio of isoyl propanol to 50% (40% ethanol 10% water and DMSO):
clear solution at 80*C, but crystalised again at 30*C.

Seems the dissolving rate is low even in such a ratio.
I read the ingredient sheet of CEL's form, the first one is isoyl alcohol (by law, the ingredients list should be sequenced base on the amount). Water is just the 5th or 6th in their list. I am thinking maybe CEL actually use more than 70% isopropanol in their product.

So I increase the volume with more isopropanol, heat it up.
This time the liquid remains transparent in about 30*C.
small amount of crystal appear at 20*C but acceptable.

this is the final ingredients sheet:

formestane appr. 0.6g
isopropanol 22ml
alcohol 7ml
water appr. 1ml
DMSO less than 0.3ml left
Normally isopropanol is not absorbed a lot by skin, while with DMSO I am not sure. that's why I don't combine them here. (although I think DMSO can increase solubility, CEL form doesn't have it.)

in sum, the final solution is a about 73% isopropanol + 20% alcohol combination. the rest is water and small amount of DMSO. The final product is reasonablly dissolved, but not too stable as you shouldn't put it in a frig. When apply on skin, all liquid will vaporise very soon so maybe lotion or cream should be added on top of it, or formestane will turn out as powder without being absorbed.

Maybe can try to combine it with less vaporise compound such as beewax or mineral oil, but I don't have much formestane to do the experiment (unless someone will fund me).

 

[narraboth]

update:

form dissolved much better in DMSO.

100mg/ml is the ratio of my form/DMSO stock. doesn't need to be heated.
could be higher though.

You can't use 100% DMSO on your skin because it burns. People do use 80% DMSO on skin without big problem but here we just can't even put in a bit of water: even 5% of water will crystalise your form out of solution. We need to find something safe to put in. The only choice is ethanol (alcohol). If you put in 99% ethanol, you can make whatever percentage of DMSO/ethanol solution without problem. The only problem is since you can't add any water and pure ethanol gone in seconds on your skin, thus the rest will be pure DMSO. However, 20% DMSO in ethenol seems slightly bite but not too bad. you can try different ratio on your skin.

receipt:
1g formestane dissolve in 8-10ml of pure DMSO, shake well, if small particles left, heat it and shake again.
then pour in nearly pure (98%-99%) alcohol slowly, to the volume you like.

If the final solution is 40ml, you got a 20-25% DMSO one. The drug concentration would be the same as CEL formestane (3g in 120ml).

I won't put on anything unnatural before or after this since DMSO hugely increase skin premeability. I might just put on some eatable plant oil.

 

[MAxximal]

update:

form dissolved much better in DMSO.

100mg/ml is the ratio of my form/DMSO stock. doesn't need to be heated.
could be higher though.

You can't use 100% DMSO on your skin because it burns. People do use 80% DMSO on skin without big problem but here we just can't even put in a bit of water: even 5% of water will crystalise your form out of solution. We need to find something safe to put in. The only choice is ethanol (alcohol). If you put in 99% ethanol, you can make whatever percentage of DMSO/ethanol solution without problem. The only problem is since you can't add any water and pure ethanol gone in seconds on your skin, thus the rest will be pure DMSO. However, 20% DMSO in ethenol seems slightly bite but not too bad. you can try different ratio on your skin.

receipt:
1g formestane dissolve in 8-10ml of pure DMSO, shake well, if small particles left, heat it and shake again.
then pour in nearly pure (98%-99%) alcohol slowly, to the volume you like.

If the final solution is 40ml, you got a 20-25% DMSO one. The drug concentration would be the same as CEL formestane (3g in 120ml).

I won't put on anything unnatural before or after this since DMSO hugely increase skin premeability. I might just put on some eatable plant oil.

this works with other bulk powder?

 

[narraboth]

this works with other bulk powder?

I don't have other compounds, but I have heard DHEA is much easier to work with.

I can't get 11 oxo bulk powder (can anyone now?); today I opened 8 caps of 11 oxo (should have 600mg), the powder is 1.4g so there is actually 800mg of cellulose. I put them in 2ml of DMSO, take the supernatant out, wash the cellulose with 2ml of alcohol to get out most of 11 oxo, and mix them. Again, when I try to put in 1 ml of water, the liquid turn to a bit cloudy, but not as bad as form did. I don't think it's a good experiment because I can't know how much 11 oxo I got in liquid, also cellulose tends to contain liquid a lot, so it's a waste there.

Another one I have tried is Tadalafil (Cialis), which is soluble in DMSO but not in water. but I haven't tried the effect of topical Tadalafi yet.

If anyone want to support my experiment, please send me the compound you want to try, I will test their solubility in DMSO and alcohol or something. I will post the results here. Each compound I only need 0.5g.

Next step I will try to mix DMSO-form with seed oil (since it's impossible to mix it with water). Seed oil (such as sunflower oil, grape seed oil...) is safe to use topically with DMSO, good to skin, cheap and avaliable to everyone compare to pure alcohol. I suppose seed oil will stay on your skin for a while so it can be a long time release carrier. (seed oil is more absorbable compare to mineral oil, safer too)

Or you guys can also do a small test:
mix small amount of DMSO-form I mentioned above with 3 times volume of food oil, mix throughly, and apply evenly on skin after shower, according to the dosage you need.
would love to hear how it works compare to CEL's form or NP's penatrater.

 

[MAxximal]

I don't have other compounds, but I have heard DHEA is much easier to work with.

I can't get 11 oxo bulk powder (can anyone now?); today I opened 8 caps of 11 oxo (should have 600mg), the powder is 1.4g so there is actually 800mg of cellulose. I put them in 2ml of DMSO, take the supernatant out, wash the cellulose with 2ml of alcohol to get out most of 11 oxo, and mix them. Again, when I try to put in 1 ml of water, the liquid turn to a bit cloudy, but not as bad as form did. I don't think it's a good experiment because I can't know how much 11 oxo I got in liquid, also cellulose tends to contain liquid a lot, so it's a waste there.

Another one I have tried is Tadalafil (Cialis), which is soluble in DMSO but not in water. but I haven't tried the effect of topical Tadalafi yet.

If anyone want to support my experiment, please send me the compound you want to try, I will test their solubility in DMSO and alcohol or something. I will post the results here. Each compound I only need 0.5g.

Next step I will try to mix DMSO-form with seed oil (since it's impossible to mix it with water). Seed oil (such as sunflower oil, grape seed oil...) is safe to use topically with DMSO, good to skin, cheap and avaliable to everyone compare to pure alcohol. I suppose seed oil will stay on your skin for a while so it can be a long time release carrier. (seed oil is more absorbable compare to mineral oil, safer too)

Or you guys can also do a small test:
mix small amount of DMSO-form I mentioned above with 3 times volume of food oil, mix throughly, and apply evenly on skin after shower, according to the dosage you need.
would love to hear how it works compare to CEL's form or NP's penatrater.

I thinking in Yohimbine HCL?

 

[narraboth]

I thinking in Yohimbine HCL?

i don't know... haven't tried...
is yohimbine's bioavailablity low via oral?

 

[MAxximal]

i don't know... haven't tried...
is yohimbine's bioavailablity low via oral?

nop for burn subcutaneous fat

look products like:

http://store.anabolicminds.com/product/avant-research/napalm-4-oz.html

http://store.anabolicminds.com/product/avant-labs/lipoderm-y-w-caffeine-4-oz.html

http://store.anabolicminds.com/product/avant-labs/lipoderm-ultra-4-oz.html


what do you think?