Legit Sups for Cardio-Respiratory Enhancement?

[kboxer7]

Appreciate all the feedback. Definitely going to try some of these options

 

[3pic_B3ast]

Cordycepts, COP, BA, cardiotryx

I avoid research chemicals that big pharma abandons. There's a reason they abandon it after hundred of millions are spent.

There are many research chemicals that big pharma have abandoned yet work for bodybuilding/endurance purposes.

Endurance athletes have not abandoned Cardarine. So it must have some use when administered properly and from a reliable source.

 

[MidwestBeast]

What is your electrolyte supp of choice? I want to skip the Gatorade/powerade drinks and I dnt like coconut water for an intra.

My intra has been Compete ever since they brought it out. As of about 6 or maybe more months ago, I've added 5g taurine to it. 1 scoop + taurine gets me through most of my lifting sessions and I mix the same thing up for basketball. I'll usually take down 2 of those over the course of 2 hours of playing. I'll mix one shaker up and drink it across about 2 games, then fill up with just water and drink that over 1 game, then refill the combo and drink it over the next game or so.

 

[kboxer7]

My intra has been Compete ever since they brought it out. As of about 6 or maybe more months ago, I've added 5g taurine to it. 1 scoop + taurine gets me through most of my lifting sessions and I mix the same thing up for basketball. I'll usually take down 2 of those over the course of 2 hours of playing. I'll mix one shaker up and drink it across about 2 games, then fill up with just water and drink that over 1 game, then refill the combo and drink it over the next game or so.

I really liked Compete on days where I would be really sweating it out. Seemed to help. Only downside is that it tastes awesome and I go thru it too fast.

 

[thebigt]

When training for mma I'd go with eca over follidrone. Use (-)-epi on your bbuilding phase and ec on mma periods. Given of course you cycle the ec stack. Follidrone on the other hand you can probably run year round w/ no issues besides a lighter wallet

ephedra [bronkaid] tolerance as far as stim effect builds very rapidly for me....i would save the bronkaid for really heavy training sessions[sparring] only and use before matches to limit tolerance, imo.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

There are many research chemicals that big pharma have abandoned yet work for bodybuilding/endurance purposes.

Endurance athletes have not abandoned Cardarine. So it must have some use when administered properly and from a reliable source.

Can you list a few other big ones (other than S4) for my interests sake? Would like to read into them.

 

[goodvibes]

ephedra [bronkaid] tolerance as far as stim effect builds very rapidly for me....i would save the bronkaid for really heavy training sessions[sparring] only and use before matches to limit tolerance, imo.

More ephedrine for me I use it preworkout for 2-3months out of the year. I only stop because I train for gains majority of the year. It takes me about 8-12 weeks on eca to shed. Past that I stop w/out the tolerance build up being noticed.

 

[thebigt]

More ephedrine for me I use it preworkout for 2-3months out of the year. I only stop because I train for gains majority of the year. It takes me about 8-12 weeks on eca to shed. Past that I stop w/out the tolerance build up being noticed.

everyone is different...but you are using eca for a different purpose than what the op is wanting...for his purpose i think he would be best off with occassional use, but i might be wrong, lol.

 

[goodvibes]

everyone is different...but you are using eca for a different purpose than what the op is wanting...for his purpose i think he would be best off with occassional use, but i might be wrong, lol.

No it's good he hears different points of view so hes aware of what he can expect.

From experience I can take it preworkout 4x a week and just treat it just like another stim. Like you said though a tolerance can in fact build up, this will be dependent on the user.

 

[IronLegion]

Best endurance supp I've found, Cordygen5 by MST.

I was a real big fan of Vengeance by xtreme formulations (also cordygen in it)

 

[kboxer7]

Solid options here guys.

One note on Cordyceps that I found interesting when doing research:

It prevents Forskolin from raising testosterone (not that forskolin raises it that much anyway but good to know).

 

[kboxer7]

+1 to Cordyceps, the MST line has some good stuff for endurance. Beta alanine also a good staple.

I'm gonna take a look at that line from MST. I see a couple people mentioning it. Thanks

 

[test112]

Cardiotryx
Cordygen5

I had the same question about the cordyceps/forskolin interaction; in fact it was my very first post here on AM but it was never fully resolved.

 

[kboxer7]

Cardiotryx
Cordygen5

I had the same question about the cordyceps/forskolin interaction; in fact it was my very first post here on AM but it was never fully resolved.

I mean the point is somewhat mute in that forskolin on its own won't raise testosterone to any level that would result in superphysiological levels. Now, if one's goals were to raise test through multiple pathways using multiple products and forskolin was one of those then perhaps it comes into play.

 

[kboxer7]

Best endurance supp I've found, Cordygen5 by MST.

I was a real big fan of Vengeance by xtreme formulations (also cordygen in it)

Is the increase in aerobic capacity with Cordyceps mostly anecdotal or has there been some newish research that has come out on it. What I could find was largely inconclusive...though that's not to say it doesn't work.

 

[thebigt]

if i remember correctly appnut drive and rpm were good for endurance and performance....and lets not forget uncut!!!

 

[kisaj]

When training for mma I'd go with eca over follidrone. Use (-)-epi on your bbuilding phase and ec on mma periods. Given of course you cycle the ec stack. Follidrone on the other hand you can probably run year round w/ no issues besides a lighter wallet

I respectfully disagree. When I was training for my last muay thai comp, I used (-)-epi with only citrulline (and I use that year round) and there was a profound improvement in endurance and recovery that helped in all phases of my training. Adding in all the additional sparring and training can and does deplete your stamina and strength, but I was still putting in weight work similar to before I was adding in all the cardio. I think it is the ultimate addition to any sport that is requiring endurance while maintaining strength.

 

[thebigt]

I respectfully disagree. When I was training for my last muay thai comp, I used (-)-epi with only citrulline (and I use that year round) and there was a profound improvement in endurance and recovery that helped in all phases of my training. Adding in all the additional sparring and training can and does deplete your stamina and strength, but I was still putting in weight work similar to before I was adding in all the cardio. I think it is the ultimate addition to any sport that is requiring endurance while maintaining strength.

apparently not everyone responds well to epi products, while ephedra is much more consistent with results, imo.

 

[kisaj]

I understand that, but for the purposes of the OP and what he is looking for, I don't think ephedra/ephedrine is suitable. He is training kick boxing and wants to keep muscle mass. The training that kick boxing requires would be pretty crazy to take a stimulant like that on top of it.

Not saying that he shouldn't, just don't think it is best suited for his situation.

 

[kboxer7]

I respectfully disagree. When I was training for my last muay thai comp, I used (-)-epi with only citrulline (and I use that year round) and there was a profound improvement in endurance and recovery that helped in all phases of my training. Adding in all the additional sparring and training can and does deplete your stamina and strength, but I was still putting in weight work similar to before I was adding in all the cardio. I think it is the ultimate addition to any sport that is requiring endurance while maintaining strength.

Do you feel that (-)epi or anything else you took aided in preserving some muscle during all that intense training? I know I'll lose some but I'm going to try to treat my training cycles like a bulk (lifting) > cut (kickboxing) > bulk (lifting) etc. to try and keep what I have.

That, and as of right now I'm not planning on competing again (just yet) so I don't need to worry about weight classes etc.

 

[kboxer7]

apparently not everyone responds well to epi products, while ephedra is much more consistent with results, imo.

I have read a lot of hit and miss with (-)epi but its one of the things I'm going to try out, if for nothing else the general health benefits. Appreciate the insight into ephedra though. I've got a nice list of things to work thru and test out now.

 

[kisaj]

Do you feel that (-)epi or anything else you took aided in preserving some muscle during all that intense training? I know I'll lose some but I'm going to try to treat my training cycles like a bulk (lifting) > cut (kickboxing) > bulk (lifting) etc. to try and keep what I have.

That, and as of right now I'm not planning on competing again (just yet) so I don't need to worry about weight classes etc.

I think that BCAAs would certainly be helpful as well. Plus, eating above maintenance in your training will help from the need to bulk, cut, bulk as much.

 

[kboxer7]

I think that BCAAs would certainly be helpful as well. Plus, eating above maintenance in your training will help from the need to bulk, cut, bulk as much.

Makes a lot of sense. A proper pre + intra workout mix would likely go a long way in muscle preservation...that and a calorie surplus as you mentioned.

 

[thebigt]

I have read a lot of hit and miss with (-)epi but its one of the things I'm going to try out, if for nothing else the general health benefits. Appreciate the insight into ephedra though. I've got a nice list of things to work thru and test out now.

the title of thread is legit supps for cardio-respiratory enhancement. bronkaid is designed to do just that, it opens up the lungs to relieve symptoms from 'mild intermittent asthma symptoms'. many of us use it for other purposes, but as far as respiratory enhancement goes bronkaid is going to be hard to beat, imo.

 

[T-Bone]

Legit drugs?

 

[thebigt]

Legit drugs?

yup...just like the caffeine found in coffee which is also classified as a drug!!!

 

[kboxer7]

Just a quick update on my progress testing things:

a. Conqu3r pre non-stim is something I normally wouldn't dose on cardio days but I decided to give it a try a few times and it really seemed to help. Possibly the COP and NO producing effects at work here.

b. So far I'm not noticing anything special with (-)epi

c. Beta Alanine seems to help

d. I cycled off creatine for a bit just to see if I noticed anything coming back on. I'm only two days back on creatine so results are not in yet on this.

e. A moderate dose of caffeine seems to help (up to about 150mg max). Anything higher and I feel like my heart is working much harder than it needs too. Kinda that stimmed out feeling when I really push it.

I'll still be working thru the rest of the suggestions and keeping notes on what I feel is working best. Thanks again for the support AM!

 

[StatePlan1425]

kboxer7 any further updates with your testing? Any standouts?

 

[macwad]

Seems like PeakATP helps a lot on endurance.
Also read somewhere about Lodhra Bark (like in ABE) helping on improving VO2 Max etc.

COP intrigues me.
Searched pubmed and found nothing about it.
Anyone has a link for papers on it?

 

[kboxer7]

Seems like PeakATP helps a lot on endurance.
Also read somewhere about Lodhra Bark (like in ABE) helping on improving VO2 Max etc.

COP intrigues me.
Searched pubmed and found nothing about it.
Anyone has a link for papers on it?

Couldn't find any recent research off hand. Also seems like there isn't much out there regarding oral administration vs injected. When injected though there is significant evidence of COP being cardio-protective.

COP Research/Study Links:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6542374

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/395957

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/573603

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/575497

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/575492

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/575498

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/395959

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/94266

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/575499

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/575490

 

[alvin1]

Pepermint oil
cordyceep

 

[kboxer7]

kboxer7 any further updates with your testing? Any standouts?

Yeah a few updates:

1. I'm still liking Conqu3r pre cardio, but I've also played with HYDRO3 and I like that as well for endurance.

2. Creatine has seemed to help with energy for sprints but not respiratory capacity or endurance.

3. I was using EpiPlex to start, and once I bumped up to 3 caps it took about 30 days to notice an improvement (fairly decent) in the endurance department. After that I switched to Epic Unleashed TD and about 2 weeks in I really could tell the difference. Whereas the caps gave a more acute and shorter lived benefit the TD seems to keep my endurance up throughout the day.

4. I gave DMAA based products a try again and the energy is WHOA, and clean. I use these very sparingly and always pair with a vasodialator (NO/Nitrate product etc) to mediate BP issues while doing cardio.

5. Tried a fairly crappy pre-workout I got on sale that had a good amt of cordyceps in it. And I have to say, it really does seem to help. I'll be looking into a better product or bulk to really hone in on whether or not its the cordyceps that is the cause.

Also on my list to try is Higenemine. It has similar properties to DMAA but does not constrict blood vessels. Also, it is purported to cause broncodialation which may help with cardio activities. So I'm looking forward to that as well. WIll keep this updated.

 

[macwad]

Thanks for the links, but they are all about injected COP on sick people. As I said, never seen anything about performance on trained individuals with oral administration

 

[alwaysfirst]

For everyone that recommended CardioTryx, how do you like? I'm interested in that but have hard time to find reliable reviews...

I used Menace from Nubreed Nutrition and liked that for cardio.

 

[ronnycjc]

CardioTryX is definitely worth it... it will allow you to train at high intensity for a longer duration... increased endurance. Used it for running, jump rope and boxing (sparring, shadow boxing, pad work) already. I also like to put an extra 50~100mg of caffeine on top. For me, it takes 45mins to kick in, after that the 1st hour... the endurance effect is really noticeable and pronounced then it starts to taper off by 2nd hour.

 

[MidwestBeast]

CTryx 1 hour out
Pre-Workout with no creatine 30 min later
1 tab Bronkaid 15 min later

That's my go to
(fwiw, Cardarine is very helpful at the 1 hour out mark, too)

 

[alwaysfirst]

CTryx 1 hour out
Pre-Workout with no creatine 30 min later
1 tab Bronkaid 15 min later

That's my go to
(fwiw, Cardarine is very helpful at the 1 hour out mark, too)

Why a pre with no creatine?

 

[BRUstrong]

Why a pre with no creatine?

I believe one of the ingredients in CTryx interacts/competes with creatine and it reduces the effectiveness of CT. That's what I've always heard but don't know for sure.

 

[alwaysfirst]

I believe one of the ingredients in CTryx interacts/competes with creatine and it reduces the effectiveness of CT. That's what I've always heard but don't know for sure.

Oh, so no creatine at all or can I dose at another time?

 

[BRUstrong]

Oh, so no creatine at all or can I dose at another time?

I think dosing away from the CT will be fine. It only becomes a problem if you want to stack CT with another pwo that contains it. Otherwise (as I'm sure you know) you can just take your creatine whenever.

 

[MidwestBeast]

IIRC it was 8 hours Matt suggested. But yeah, I still use my creatine; just make sure it's as far away as I can get it on my 2 cardio days each week

 

[alwaysfirst]

IIRC it was 8 hours Matt suggested. But yeah, I still use my creatine; just make sure it's as far away as I can get it on my 2 cardio days each week

Will CT "build up" or is it only effective when you take it?

 

[MidwestBeast]

Will CT "build up" or is it only effective when you take it?

Can't remember off the top of my head any cumulative effects. I play basketball for 2 hours twice a week and only use it those days (Sun and Wed), so I can't say I really use it on a constant basis.

I know Matt had to stop using it at one point because he was actually losing too much weight lol. Not a problem ice yet to experience. Every 4th week I do what I call a high intensity week for my lifting (5 day split) and on those days its usually 4x12 or comparable on about 4 lifts per muscle group. So I end up with sessions lasting 30-40 minutes or so. I used CTryx pre for a full week once (including my off/cardio days, so based off the previous and future week's basketball days, I actually dosed 9 consecutive days). I didn't notice a difference vs. my typical dosing protocol.

I did lose some more fat, but not as much as on my all out cardio days, so I've decided to use it just those days to maximize effect and length of bottle.

Hope that's helpful.

 

[thebigt]

Yeah a few updates:

1. I'm still liking Conqu3r pre cardio, but I've also played with HYDRO3 and I like that as well for endurance.

2. Creatine has seemed to help with energy for sprints but not respiratory capacity or endurance.

3. I was using EpiPlex to start, and once I bumped up to 3 caps it took about 30 days to notice an improvement (fairly decent) in the endurance department. After that I switched to Epic Unleashed TD and about 2 weeks in I really could tell the difference. Whereas the caps gave a more acute and shorter lived benefit the TD seems to keep my endurance up throughout the day.

4. I gave DMAA based products a try again and the energy is WHOA, and clean. I use these very sparingly and always pair with a vasodialator (NO/Nitrate product etc) to mediate BP issues while doing cardio.

5. Tried a fairly crappy pre-workout I got on sale that had a good amt of cordyceps in it. And I have to say, it really does seem to help. I'll be looking into a better product or bulk to really hone in on whether or not its the cordyceps that is the cause.

Also on my list to try is Higenemine. It has similar properties to DMAA but does not constrict blood vessels. Also, it is purported to cause broncodialation which may help with cardio activities. So I'm looking forward to that as well. WIll keep this updated.

#5....I always liked millennium sport's cordygen5, pretty cheap-under $25. I think mst was the 1st to popularize cordyceps and for my money is worth the little extra cash over bulk.

 

[jgntyce]

Looking at MST CORDYGEN VO2 ultra. Thoughts?

 

[baldymcgee]

I enjoy Cordygen vo2 better Cordygen5

 

[muscleupcrohn]

No mentions of ashwagandha yet?

Our study showed that Withania somnifera increased velocity, power and VO2 max whereas Terminalia arjuna increased VO2 max and lowered resting systolic blood pressure. When given in combination, the improvement was seen in all parameters except balance and diastolic blood pressure.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21170205

Ashwagandha improved the cardiorespiratory endurance of the elite athletes...

There was significant improvement in the experimental group in all parameters, whereas the placebo group did not show any change with respect to their baseline parameters. There was significant improvement in the experimental group in all parameters, namely, VO(2) max (t = 5.356; P < 0.001), METS (t = 4.483; P < 0.001), and time for exhaustion on treadmill (t = 4.813; P < 0.001) in comparison to the placebo group which did not show any change with respect to their baseline parameters.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23326093

This study evaluated improvement induced by an exercise regimen in healthy athletes with and without KSM-66 supplementation. Athletes taking KSM-66 showed substantially higher improvement in cardio respiratory endurance (VO2max) and self-assessed scores on the WHO Quality of Life Questionnaire...

The 12 week therapy of KSM-66 Ashwagandha showed marked improvement in maximum oxygen consumption
(VO ) in healthy athletic adults. A significant increase 13.6% was observed at Day 56 2-max
and Day 84 respectively in ashwagandha supplemented group when compared to placebo group.

http://www.ksm66ashwagandhaa.com/clinical_trials.html

Or eleuthero:

The major finding of this study was the VO2 peak of the subjects elevated 12% (P < 0.05), endurance time improved 23% (P < 0.05) and the highest heart rate increased 4% (P < 0.05) significantly. The second finding was at 30 min of 75% VO2 peak cycling, the production of plasma FFA was increased and the glucose level was decreased both significantly (P < 0.05) over 8-week ES supplementation. This is the first well-conducted study that shows that 8-week ES supplementation enhances endurance capacity, elevates cardiovascular functions and alters the metabolism for sparing glycogen in recreationally trained males.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21793317

or echinacea:

These data suggest that ECH supplementation results in significant increases in EPO, VO2max, and running economy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22728943

 

[Dirty Dan]

Came in here to cast my vote for COP and CardioTryx and noticed this was created in July.

How have things been going since then, K?

Did your ever get back into kick boxing/MMA?

How's the cardio endurance?

 

[swole210]

Im a bit late with my answer as well, but definitely another +1 for MST Cordygen 5! Great stuff for endurance. Cordy 5, COP, Nitrates (was using potassium nitrate) had me running non-stop.

 

[Kaprice]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I was surprised by the recommendations of ephedra pre-cardio. I did a quick search and there are a LOT of warnings about heart risk because ephedra increases heart rate and blood pressure -- combine that with a stressful workout and they say it could do some serious damage.

Thoughts?