Legit Sups for Cardio-Respiratory Enhancement?

kboxer7

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Title says it all...

Are there any sups that have a NOTICEABLE effect on cardo-respiratory improvement? Anything legal that increases EPO?

Or would I be limited to those that have more of an "endurance" enhancing effect? If so, would I be looking at a SARM like GW (I know not really a SARM but rather a PPAR modulator. (-)epi?

BONUS: Anything that helps preserve muscle with the increased cardio. I'm looking to get back into kickboxing and MMA (I used to be pretty good once upon a time ago), but also don't want to get too small if at all possible.

Thanks AM crew.
 
BRUstrong

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(-)Epi works well for me. Best results I've had have been with Follidrone and Ep1c Unleashed. For some reason I didn't respond well to the OG Ep1c (compared to Follidrone) but Ep1c Unleashed is much improved. I used the caps, haven't tried the transdermal. Both (Folli and Ep1c UL) are solid products IMO.

I heard companies advertise that cordyceps increase C/R endurance but I don't have any experience.
 
kboxer7

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(-)Epi works well for me. Best results I've had have been with Follidrone and Ep1c Unleashed. For some reason I didn't respond well to the OG Ep1c (compared to Follidrone) but Ep1c Unleashed is much improved. I used the caps, haven't tried the transdermal. Both (Folli and Ep1c UL) are solid products IMO.

I heard companies advertise that cordyceps increase C/R endurance but I don't have any experience.
Appreciate the feedback.

I've been thinking about Epi but have been undecided as to which to try. Also, reviews on Epi seem hit or miss, but that perhaps is because individuals are expecting more muscle gain than endurance?

Have you noticed if Epi has spared muscle whilst engaging in a lot of cardio?
 

mase1

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C-o-p? Have not tired it but heard good stuff.
 
kboxer7

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cardio training
C'mon man....I know that.

Unfortunately I was exposed to a lot of industrial chemicals and particulates on a reg basis from age 13-20 ish. After which, when my lung capacity was tested in a university setting (by a doctor that was teaching physiology) it was closer to that of a 13 yr old girl. Haven't had it tested since so I don't really know if its improved other than subjective observations.

I keep in good enough shape that its never really an issue, but when it comes to something like MMA/kickboxing, I certainly feel at a disadvantage.
 
kboxer7

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C-o-p? Have not tired it but heard good stuff.
I just started on OL Conqu3r non stim which has 2g of COP so I'll see if that helps. Thanks.
 
cubs1987

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as far as legal endurance enhancers- Cardiotryx has helped with my endurance big time when I use it
 
Quads_of_Stee

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Appreciate the feedback.

I've been thinking about Epi but have been undecided as to which to try. Also, reviews on Epi seem hit or miss, but that perhaps is because individuals are expecting more muscle gain than endurance?

Have you noticed if Epi has spared muscle whilst engaging in a lot of cardio?
you should specify (-) epi as just normal epi still stands for epistane the PH to a lot of people. EvoMuse CardioTryx, or cordycep supps would help
 
kboxer7

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as far as legal endurance enhancers- Cardiotryx has helped with my endurance big time when I use it
I'll read up on Cardiotryx today, thanks
 
kboxer7

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you should specify (-) epi as just normal epi still stands for epistane the PH to a lot of people. EvoMuse CardioTryx, or cordycep supps would help
Fixed. Thanks for the feedback.
 
Jiigzz

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Title says it all...

Are there any sups that have a NOTICEABLE effect on cardo-respiratory improvement? Anything legal that increases EPO?

Or would I be limited to those that have more of an "endurance" enhancing effect? If so, would I be looking at a SARM like GW (I know not really a SARM but rather a PPAR modulator. (-)epi?

BONUS: Anything that helps preserve muscle with the increased cardio. I'm looking to get back into kickboxing and MMA (I used to be pretty good once upon a time ago), but also don't want to get too small if at all possible.

Thanks AM crew.
Problem is is that drawing in and deliverig oxygen is one part of the process, but uptake into muscle cells is another. For something to accomplish all of this to an appreciable degree will be difficult. On the other hand, certain supps may help decrease perception of fatigue which is useful:

COP
Beta alanine
(-) Epi
 

determination

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cardiotryx, ergonine and -epi all give me good results.
 
kboxer7

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Problem is is that drawing in and deliverig oxygen is one part of the process, but uptake into muscle cells is another. For something to accomplish all of this to an appreciable degree will be difficult. On the other hand, certain supps may help decrease perception of fatigue which is useful:

COP
Beta alanine
(-) Epi
Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

I'm on beta alanine and I do feel it has helped to a degree regarding staving off symptoms of fatigue. I do notice a difference when off it. Haven't tried COP as a standalone but it is in Conqu3r and I just bought 2 tubs of that.

Been wanting to try (-) Epi but haven't pulled the trigger due to what seems like a "hit" or miss with whether or not people respond to it. That and my supp bill is quite large already : )
 
AntM1564

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Another vote for COP. If you're looking for a creatine product, CreMax contains your daily dose of creatine, a hydration complex, and also COP. It might be worth looking into if you're interested in the rest of the profile.
 
heavylifter33

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COP and Beta Alanine are the two i go with. COP can get a little expensive, i think SNS is around 20 something a bottle last i checked. BA is cheap.
 

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J Pharm Pharmacol. 2005 Aug;57(8):1053-8.
Bronchodilatory effects of the aqueous extract of Gynostemma pentaphyllum and gypenosides III and VIII in anaesthetized guinea-pigs.
( Conclusion:This study confirmed the validity of the traditional use of this plant in the treatment of asthma and other respiratory disorders.)

Chemical composition of three polysaccharides from Gynostemma pentaphyllum and their antioxidant activity in skeletal muscle of exercised mice.
(Conclusion:The mechanism by which GPP1-a prolonged exercise time to exhaustion in mice may be associated with scavenging reactive oxygen species excessively produced and further increasing glycogen levels in skeletal muscle.)

Also on a side note it is an AMPK activator.
 
kboxer7

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J Pharm Pharmacol. 2005 Aug;57(8):1053-8.
Bronchodilatory effects of the aqueous extract of Gynostemma pentaphyllum and gypenosides III and VIII in anaesthetized guinea-pigs.
( Conclusion:This study confirmed the validity of the traditional use of this plant in the treatment of asthma and other respiratory disorders.)

Chemical composition of three polysaccharides from Gynostemma pentaphyllum and their antioxidant activity in skeletal muscle of exercised mice.
(Conclusion:The mechanism by which GPP1-a prolonged exercise time to exhaustion in mice may be associated with scavenging reactive oxygen species excessively produced and further increasing glycogen levels in skeletal muscle.)

Also on a side note it is an AMPK activator.
Looking into this over the weekend. Interesting compound for sure. Otherwise known as "Southern Ginseng."
 
Jackedjack

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Like the previous who mentioned it before me, cardiotryx is amazing and so beneficial to endurance training. When preparing for my marathon it got me from a 3:04 to 2:59.
 
kboxer7

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Like the previous who mentioned it before me, cardiotryx is amazing and so beneficial to endurance training. When preparing for my marathon it got me from a 3:04 to 2:59.
Sounds like I should give this a go.
 
kboxer7

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Nitrates and -epi
Tried nitrates and did notice a bit of improvement for sure.

Been meaning to give (-)epi a shot. I hear it's hit or miss with people though. Still would love to try it.

Right now I've got:
Nitrates
Beta Alanine
COP (as part of another sup)
 
NoAddedHmones

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Tried nitrates and did notice a bit of improvement for sure.

Been meaning to give (-)epi a shot. I hear it's hit or miss with people though. Still would love to try it.

Right now I've got:
Nitrates
Beta Alanine
COP (as part of another sup)
While it may seem biased since I am apart of the company that produces a form of enhanced -epi, my experiences using it is night and day better compared to regular isolated -epi.
 
goodvibes

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Do you want this as a staple? If you're interested to use it for 2-3 cycles a year definitely eca/ec stack. (-)-epi/follidrone gives me increased volume capacity but eca helps me more in cardio sessions
 
kboxer7

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While it may seem biased since I am apart of the company that produces a form of enhanced -epi, my experiences using it is night and day better compared to regular isolated -epi.
I'll likely be trying (-)epi next. Just gotta wait till next month as my sup budget is tapped out right now. Plus I've been going back and forth on which (-)epi product to choose. tbh, I almost bought EpiPlex because of the price point, but bio-availability of (-)epi has me concerned without some added ingredients for enhanced absorption.
 
kboxer7

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Do you want this as a staple? If you're interested to use it for 2-3 cycles a year definitely eca/ec stack. (-)-epi/follidrone gives me increased volume capacity but eca helps me more in cardio sessions
I wouldn't be opposed to that, but I'm trying to keep the stims to a minimum as I get older....not that I'm that old (31), but I seem to tolerate them less as I age. In my 20s I'd hammer a 20oz energy drink + pre workout and go to town. Now that kinda stuff makes me feel sickish/stimmed out. Normally my pre-workout has at the very most 200mg caffeine.
 
thebigt

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I wouldn't be opposed to that, but I'm trying to keep the stims to a minimum as I get older....not that I'm that old (31), but I seem to tolerate them less as I age. In my 20s I'd hammer a 20oz energy drink + pre workout and go to town. Now that kinda stuff makes me feel sickish/stimmed out. Normally my pre-workout has at the very most 200mg caffeine.
just use the ephedra solo, easy fix!!!
 
kboxer7

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just use the ephedra solo, easy fix!!!
True. Though still banned in the US yes? Meaning no readily available sups at the normal online stores we all shop at?
 
thebigt

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True. Though still banned in the US yes? Meaning no readily available sups at the normal online stores we all shop at?
bronkaid is what many including me use.
 
thebigt

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Gotcha. Much appreciated thebigt
np/most drug stores sell bronkaid behind the counter, you have to sign for it but it isn't that difficult to get and is cheap compared to many less effective otc supps, imo.
 
thebigt

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Just go to the drugstore and ask for cold medicine like a methhead like Big T does.
this 'MEATHEAD' asks for bronkaid by name, lol.
 
Jiigzz

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I'll likely be trying (-)epi next. Just gotta wait till next month as my sup budget is tapped out right now. Plus I've been going back and forth on which (-)epi product to choose. tbh, I almost bought EpiPlex because of the price point, but bio-availability of (-)epi has me concerned without some added ingredients for enhanced absorption.
(-) epi still exerts benefits even with no added enhancers (which epiplex does have) as shown by follidrone.

What you could do is pick up some green tea and drink that with it if you wanted that component. A cheap addition to a very cheap and high dosed epi product ;)
 
kboxer7

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Is it suppose to be dosed everyday or acute benefits only preworkout?
 
kboxer7

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Is it suppose to be dosed everyday or acute benefits only preworkout?
tbh I haven't had a chance to look into that yet. The only reference over at Examine is for injections into the heart (which did have acute benefits). Examine says no studies on Oral administration exist but I'm sure they are out there somewhere, just haven't had time to dig
 
StatePlan1425

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Great thread kboxer7 and team. New to AM and glad to see the knowledge base extends to multiple disciplines and training protocols. Thanks all.
 
kboxer7

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Looks like I'm going to go with the following to start and go from there on testing other stuff out:

COP
Beta Alanine (already on)
Creatine (been off cause I forgot to order...stupid me)
(-)epi

Along with a pre workout and/or nitrates (KNO3)


As an aside, research on (-epi) shows it has been demonstrated in animals and humans to increase the production of new mitochondria in heart and in angiogenesis. I'm guessing effects of this are seen more over a lengthy period of time than say a 4 week run, but I found it interesting.
 
kboxer7

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Do you want this as a staple? If you're interested to use it for 2-3 cycles a year definitely eca/ec stack. (-)-epi/follidrone gives me increased volume capacity but eca helps me more in cardio sessions
I'm thinking of both. Maybe some affordable staples year round, then a few stacks a year while doing MMA.

I'm basically torn between BBing and MMA/kickboxing right now. I want to get back into the latter before I get too old, but don't wanna lose too much muscle. Actually I'm still about 15lbs short of my goal weight. (180 now, want a lean 195).

I don't know if I'll actually want to get back into competing, so for now I'm gonna do 1-2 months BBing followed by MMA and strength training for a month.

Rinse and repeat.

I'm hoping this will result in a bulk period followed by a recomp/cut cycled throughout the year.
 
TexasLifter89

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+1 to Cordyceps, the MST line has some good stuff for endurance. Beta alanine also a good staple.
 
goodvibes

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When training for mma I'd go with eca over follidrone. Use (-)-epi on your bbuilding phase and ec on mma periods. Given of course you cycle the ec stack. Follidrone on the other hand you can probably run year round w/ no issues besides a lighter wallet
 
MidwestBeast

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GW helped my endurance noticeably

CardioTryx 1hr. before
Pre-workout containing betaine, citrulline, beta alanine, caffeine + 25mg ephedrine 20 min pre
LCLT + electrolytes intra

And I use MyoSynergy that has -epi and HICA, too.
 

jamesm11

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Cordycepts, COP, BA, cardiotryx

I avoid research chemicals that big pharma abandons. There's a reason they abandon it after hundred of millions are spent.
 
goodvibes

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Cordycepts, COP, BA, cardiotryx

I avoid research chemicals that big pharma abandons. There's a reason they abandon it after hundred of millions are spent.
Yes, that's exactly my thought from the beginning. GW had so much potential but GSK abandoned that project and they did for a reason.
 
goodvibes

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GW helped my endurance noticeably

CardioTryx 1hr. before
Pre-workout containing betaine, citrulline, beta alanine, caffeine + 25mg ephedrine 20 min pre
LCLT + electrolytes intra

And I use MyoSynergy that has -epi and HICA, too.
What is your electrolyte supp of choice? I want to skip the Gatorade/powerade drinks and I dnt like coconut water for an intra.
 

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