Appreciate all the feedback. Definitely going to try some of these options
There are many research chemicals that big pharma have abandoned yet work for bodybuilding/endurance purposes.Cordycepts, COP, BA, cardiotryx
I avoid research chemicals that big pharma abandons. There's a reason they abandon it after hundred of millions are spent.
My intra has been Compete ever since they brought it out. As of about 6 or maybe more months ago, I've added 5g taurine to it. 1 scoop + taurine gets me through most of my lifting sessions and I mix the same thing up for basketball. I'll usually take down 2 of those over the course of 2 hours of playing. I'll mix one shaker up and drink it across about 2 games, then fill up with just water and drink that over 1 game, then refill the combo and drink it over the next game or so.What is your electrolyte supp of choice? I want to skip the Gatorade/powerade drinks and I dnt like coconut water for an intra.
I really liked Compete on days where I would be really sweating it out. Seemed to help. Only downside is that it tastes awesome and I go thru it too fast.My intra has been Compete ever since they brought it out. As of about 6 or maybe more months ago, I've added 5g taurine to it. 1 scoop + taurine gets me through most of my lifting sessions and I mix the same thing up for basketball. I'll usually take down 2 of those over the course of 2 hours of playing. I'll mix one shaker up and drink it across about 2 games, then fill up with just water and drink that over 1 game, then refill the combo and drink it over the next game or so.
ephedra [bronkaid] tolerance as far as stim effect builds very rapidly for me....i would save the bronkaid for really heavy training sessions[sparring] only and use before matches to limit tolerance, imo.When training for mma I'd go with eca over follidrone. Use (-)-epi on your bbuilding phase and ec on mma periods. Given of course you cycle the ec stack. Follidrone on the other hand you can probably run year round w/ no issues besides a lighter wallet
Can you list a few other big ones (other than S4) for my interests sake? Would like to read into them.There are many research chemicals that big pharma have abandoned yet work for bodybuilding/endurance purposes.
Endurance athletes have not abandoned Cardarine. So it must have some use when administered properly and from a reliable source.
More ephedrine for me I use it preworkout for 2-3months out of the year. I only stop because I train for gains majority of the year. It takes me about 8-12 weeks on eca to shed. Past that I stop w/out the tolerance build up being noticed.ephedra [bronkaid] tolerance as far as stim effect builds very rapidly for me....i would save the bronkaid for really heavy training sessions[sparring] only and use before matches to limit tolerance, imo.
everyone is different...but you are using eca for a different purpose than what the op is wanting...for his purpose i think he would be best off with occassional use, but i might be wrong, lol.More ephedrine for me I use it preworkout for 2-3months out of the year. I only stop because I train for gains majority of the year. It takes me about 8-12 weeks on eca to shed. Past that I stop w/out the tolerance build up being noticed.
No it's good he hears different points of view so hes aware of what he can expect.everyone is different...but you are using eca for a different purpose than what the op is wanting...for his purpose i think he would be best off with occassional use, but i might be wrong, lol.
I'm gonna take a look at that line from MST. I see a couple people mentioning it. Thanks+1 to Cordyceps, the MST line has some good stuff for endurance. Beta alanine also a good staple.
I mean the point is somewhat mute in that forskolin on its own won't raise testosterone to any level that would result in superphysiological levels. Now, if one's goals were to raise test through multiple pathways using multiple products and forskolin was one of those then perhaps it comes into play.Cardiotryx
Cordygen5
I had the same question about the cordyceps/forskolin interaction; in fact it was my very first post here on AM but it was never fully resolved.
Is the increase in aerobic capacity with Cordyceps mostly anecdotal or has there been some newish research that has come out on it. What I could find was largely inconclusive...though that's not to say it doesn't work.Best endurance supp I've found, Cordygen5 by MST.
I was a real big fan of Vengeance by xtreme formulations (also cordygen in it)
I respectfully disagree. When I was training for my last muay thai comp, I used (-)-epi with only citrulline (and I use that year round) and there was a profound improvement in endurance and recovery that helped in all phases of my training. Adding in all the additional sparring and training can and does deplete your stamina and strength, but I was still putting in weight work similar to before I was adding in all the cardio. I think it is the ultimate addition to any sport that is requiring endurance while maintaining strength.When training for mma I'd go with eca over follidrone. Use (-)-epi on your bbuilding phase and ec on mma periods. Given of course you cycle the ec stack. Follidrone on the other hand you can probably run year round w/ no issues besides a lighter wallet
apparently not everyone responds well to epi products, while ephedra is much more consistent with results, imo.I respectfully disagree. When I was training for my last muay thai comp, I used (-)-epi with only citrulline (and I use that year round) and there was a profound improvement in endurance and recovery that helped in all phases of my training. Adding in all the additional sparring and training can and does deplete your stamina and strength, but I was still putting in weight work similar to before I was adding in all the cardio. I think it is the ultimate addition to any sport that is requiring endurance while maintaining strength.
Do you feel that (-)epi or anything else you took aided in preserving some muscle during all that intense training? I know I'll lose some but I'm going to try to treat my training cycles like a bulk (lifting) > cut (kickboxing) > bulk (lifting) etc. to try and keep what I have.I respectfully disagree. When I was training for my last muay thai comp, I used (-)-epi with only citrulline (and I use that year round) and there was a profound improvement in endurance and recovery that helped in all phases of my training. Adding in all the additional sparring and training can and does deplete your stamina and strength, but I was still putting in weight work similar to before I was adding in all the cardio. I think it is the ultimate addition to any sport that is requiring endurance while maintaining strength.
I have read a lot of hit and miss with (-)epi but its one of the things I'm going to try out, if for nothing else the general health benefits. Appreciate the insight into ephedra though. I've got a nice list of things to work thru and test out now.apparently not everyone responds well to epi products, while ephedra is much more consistent with results, imo.
I think that BCAAs would certainly be helpful as well. Plus, eating above maintenance in your training will help from the need to bulk, cut, bulk as much.Do you feel that (-)epi or anything else you took aided in preserving some muscle during all that intense training? I know I'll lose some but I'm going to try to treat my training cycles like a bulk (lifting) > cut (kickboxing) > bulk (lifting) etc. to try and keep what I have.
That, and as of right now I'm not planning on competing again (just yet) so I don't need to worry about weight classes etc.
Makes a lot of sense. A proper pre + intra workout mix would likely go a long way in muscle preservation...that and a calorie surplus as you mentioned.I think that BCAAs would certainly be helpful as well. Plus, eating above maintenance in your training will help from the need to bulk, cut, bulk as much.
the title of thread is legit supps for cardio-respiratory enhancement. bronkaid is designed to do just that, it opens up the lungs to relieve symptoms from 'mild intermittent asthma symptoms'. many of us use it for other purposes, but as far as respiratory enhancement goes bronkaid is going to be hard to beat, imo.I have read a lot of hit and miss with (-)epi but its one of the things I'm going to try out, if for nothing else the general health benefits. Appreciate the insight into ephedra though. I've got a nice list of things to work thru and test out now.
yup...just like the caffeine found in coffee which is also classified as a drug!!!Legit drugs?
Couldn't find any recent research off hand. Also seems like there isn't much out there regarding oral administration vs injected. When injected though there is significant evidence of COP being cardio-protective.Seems like PeakATP helps a lot on endurance.
Also read somewhere about Lodhra Bark (like in ABE) helping on improving VO2 Max etc.
COP intrigues me.
Searched pubmed and found nothing about it.
Anyone has a link for papers on it?
Yeah a few updates:kboxer7 any further updates with your testing? Any standouts?
Why a pre with no creatine?CTryx 1 hour out
Pre-Workout with no creatine 30 min later
1 tab Bronkaid 15 min later
That's my go to
(fwiw, Cardarine is very helpful at the 1 hour out mark, too)
I believe one of the ingredients in CTryx interacts/competes with creatine and it reduces the effectiveness of CT. That's what I've always heard but don't know for sure.Why a pre with no creatine?
Oh, so no creatine at all or can I dose at another time?I believe one of the ingredients in CTryx interacts/competes with creatine and it reduces the effectiveness of CT. That's what I've always heard but don't know for sure.
I think dosing away from the CT will be fine. It only becomes a problem if you want to stack CT with another pwo that contains it. Otherwise (as I'm sure you know) you can just take your creatine whenever.Oh, so no creatine at all or can I dose at another time?
Will CT "build up" or is it only effective when you take it?IIRC it was 8 hours Matt suggested. But yeah, I still use my creatine; just make sure it's as far away as I can get it on my 2 cardio days each week
Can't remember off the top of my head any cumulative effects. I play basketball for 2 hours twice a week and only use it those days (Sun and Wed), so I can't say I really use it on a constant basis.Will CT "build up" or is it only effective when you take it?
#5....I always liked millennium sport's cordygen5, pretty cheap-under $25. I think mst was the 1st to popularize cordyceps and for my money is worth the little extra cash over bulk.Yeah a few updates:
1. I'm still liking Conqu3r pre cardio, but I've also played with HYDRO3 and I like that as well for endurance.
2. Creatine has seemed to help with energy for sprints but not respiratory capacity or endurance.
3. I was using EpiPlex to start, and once I bumped up to 3 caps it took about 30 days to notice an improvement (fairly decent) in the endurance department. After that I switched to Epic Unleashed TD and about 2 weeks in I really could tell the difference. Whereas the caps gave a more acute and shorter lived benefit the TD seems to keep my endurance up throughout the day.
4. I gave DMAA based products a try again and the energy is WHOA, and clean. I use these very sparingly and always pair with a vasodialator (NO/Nitrate product etc) to mediate BP issues while doing cardio.
5. Tried a fairly crappy pre-workout I got on sale that had a good amt of cordyceps in it. And I have to say, it really does seem to help. I'll be looking into a better product or bulk to really hone in on whether or not its the cordyceps that is the cause.
Also on my list to try is Higenemine. It has similar properties to DMAA but does not constrict blood vessels. Also, it is purported to cause broncodialation which may help with cardio activities. So I'm looking forward to that as well. WIll keep this updated.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21170205Our study showed that Withania somnifera increased velocity, power and VO2 max whereas Terminalia arjuna increased VO2 max and lowered resting systolic blood pressure. When given in combination, the improvement was seen in all parameters except balance and diastolic blood pressure.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23326093Ashwagandha improved the cardiorespiratory endurance of the elite athletes...
There was significant improvement in the experimental group in all parameters, whereas the placebo group did not show any change with respect to their baseline parameters. There was significant improvement in the experimental group in all parameters, namely, VO(2) max (t = 5.356; P < 0.001), METS (t = 4.483; P < 0.001), and time for exhaustion on treadmill (t = 4.813; P < 0.001) in comparison to the placebo group which did not show any change with respect to their baseline parameters.
http://www.ksm66ashwagandhaa.com/clinical_trials.htmlThis study evaluated improvement induced by an exercise regimen in healthy athletes with and without KSM-66 supplementation. Athletes taking KSM-66 showed substantially higher improvement in cardio respiratory endurance (VO2max) and self-assessed scores on the WHO Quality of Life Questionnaire...
The 12 week therapy of KSM-66 Ashwagandha showed marked improvement in maximum oxygen consumption
(VO ) in healthy athletic adults. A significant increase 13.6% was observed at Day 56 2-max
and Day 84 respectively in ashwagandha supplemented group when compared to placebo group.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21793317The major finding of this study was the VO2 peak of the subjects elevated 12% (P < 0.05), endurance time improved 23% (P < 0.05) and the highest heart rate increased 4% (P < 0.05) significantly. The second finding was at 30 min of 75% VO2 peak cycling, the production of plasma FFA was increased and the glucose level was decreased both significantly (P < 0.05) over 8-week ES supplementation. This is the first well-conducted study that shows that 8-week ES supplementation enhances endurance capacity, elevates cardiovascular functions and alters the metabolism for sparing glycogen in recreationally trained males.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22728943These data suggest that ECH supplementation results in significant increases in EPO, VO2max, and running economy.
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