KLEEN – Unwraps his abs for Christmas w/ PES ERASE and ALPHA-T2 (Sponsored)
- Thread starter MrKleen73
- Start date
thundergod
Well-known member
At this point surgery may be just what you do need. The aflutop didn't seem to help. Stretching, proper warm-ups, wise exercise selections, and such have provided almost no relief. At this point I'd be welcoming surgery to get some relief and get back to normal lifting.
Some injuries can't be worked around. I had knee surgery way back in 1990 and it was just what I needed. I had babied that knee for a few years knowing it was bad and not getting better. I wish I had scheduled that surgery when I first knew it was practically inevitable.
Good luck big Kleenster. I know that regardless of what happens, you'll battle on like the warrior you are!!!
Some injuries can't be worked around. I had knee surgery way back in 1990 and it was just what I needed. I had babied that knee for a few years knowing it was bad and not getting better. I wish I had scheduled that surgery when I first knew it was practically inevitable.
Good luck big Kleenster. I know that regardless of what happens, you'll battle on like the warrior you are!!!
oufinny
Well-known member
Wise words oh God O' Thunder. Sometimes it serves no purpose to prolong the inevitable and risk further injury. Modern orthopedics, especially if you get a good doctor (very easy to do in Houston), will leave Kleen better than ever and more than likely pain free. No matter what you find out Chris, we are behind your decision 100%.
DreamWeaver
Legend
Yah I have been dodging a few injuries lately, it's gotten down to a science. My shoulder gets stronger but don't think I will ever get full range of motion back. Now the knees are starting to act up... :damnit: elbows are an easier work around and wraps help a lot. Back squats don't bother my knees much but it's my shoulder that keeps me from doing those. I could consider lighter front squats with knee wraps when they get a bit better.
MrKleen73
Legend
Thanks My Man!
Kleen you are an amazing/insane man. 185 overhead presses with shoulder surgery looming o.0 Kudos to you but you should take it down a notch
Have you ever tried the low weight high rep stuff Lee Priest style?
Honestly the shoulder press didn't cause any pain. None of the pushing moves cause it any pain. It is pulling. Like say the effort and range of motion it takes to pull my elbow back just to put my hand in my pocket will cause pain. Yet I can push 265 pounds of my chest, or military press 185x5 and no pain... This all started again when I did the bent over rows with 185 almost 2 weeks ago. Are you kidding me!!! I can throw 185, I can man handle 185 on rows like nothing and it completely thrashed it again... The real injury was a while back and was from heavy dumbbell rows. I had stopped rowing all together for a while. So I thought it had improved but not so, as soon as I applied any pressure it was obvious nothing had healed.
No I haven't tried the low weight high rep stuff, but after this I am going the shorter rep range route. I think part of my issue is I am really flexible and I go to exageratted ROMs with my joints under some serious weight at disadvantageous angles due to the flexibility. I think I am going to need to cut out about a 1/3 of the movement for a while and just use real stretching to keep my range of motion. My ortho recommended it before and I ignored it. Even though he told me science had proven I would not experience any less growth. Muscle fibers contract in response to resistance, not distance traveled. They grow from specific adaptation to the intensity of the contractions required to move the weight. You do not need a full ROM to grow muscle only a reasonable one.
Look at Ronnie Coleman, Branch Warren and well probably 70% of the other Pro bodybuilders and you will see that most of them actually do about 2/3rd of the full range of motion. Just look at the motivational vids on youtube they are almost all doing it. With the weight these guys use I bet they have an ortho somewhere telling them the exact same information I ignored from mine. I went to him because he specializes in sports injury and then didn't take his advice... So now I will use a slightly abbreviated ROM and see if my joints hold up better like he said they will. I am talking about removing 1/6th from the bottom of the move and 1/6 from the top of the move, just the outer extremes of the ROM.
Good news at this point would be that surgery is all that is required... That is a solution to what has thus far been a problem without any resolution. All I need is some pain tolerance and determination to get back in it and I am good to go...
Amen Brother Thunder! This is exactly where I am right now. Also not being willing to do what I did with my first surgery, which was not working upper body for 8 months. I was a skinny little fella after all of that. I got down to 170, granted I had a nice set of abs and looked like a fitness model but that just ain't my goal... I am ready to be lifting like a beast.
Thanks Matt! I agree completely. As you know from his credentials he is one of the best in Houston so I am completely confident in him.
Oh it will, the question is just how I handle myself in the interim. Hopefully I can make myself proud by refocusing on other facets of training like legs and cutting.
Thanks for all the support guys!!!
SweetLou321
Well-known member
where do you get ur custom bcaa mix from?
second you are on point with adding bcaa towards your protein intake, layne norton recommends this and does it himself
second you are on point with adding bcaa towards your protein intake, layne norton recommends this and does it himself
MrKleen73
Legend
Thanks! I got it from Nutraplanet, 1 bottle of Luecine, 1 bottle of BCAA's and one bottle of L Gutamine 500 grams of each mixed in together.
However Trueprotien has an already micronized and instantized one so I am going to make my own mixture there. I looked and can do about 5 lbs of it for 60 bucks.
SweetLou321
Well-known member
awh i see, cleaver cleaver haha, its a solid mix man, how do you go about flavoring it?
Also it sounds like ur ac joint is messed up bc pulling hurts and pushing doesnt, im currently in the same spot, i avoid wg stuff atm pretty much, just use reverse/neutral grip pull-ups/downs. and narrow grip rows, the seated cable and hammer strength high rows felt good as well and lighter db rows real close to the side, try it out and best of luck with ur recovery. besides wg is overrated anyways
Also it sounds like ur ac joint is messed up bc pulling hurts and pushing doesnt, im currently in the same spot, i avoid wg stuff atm pretty much, just use reverse/neutral grip pull-ups/downs. and narrow grip rows, the seated cable and hammer strength high rows felt good as well and lighter db rows real close to the side, try it out and best of luck with ur recovery. besides wg is overrated anyways
MrKleen73
Legend
I will see I get my MRA Tuesday then probably my follow up on Friday then we will discuss if surgery is required or maybe a cortisone shot. I am almost sure it is time for the knife though. I was a little sad to notice that when I put my arm in the position that I would be in in the immobilizer I wont be able to do much on leg press machines. So I am going to probably be limited to isolation type exercises for legs. I may do them in tabatta type workouts. 20 seconds rep'ing out 10 seconds rest for 8 cycles per exercise on 4 exercises. I can do leg extension, leg curl, leg adduction, and leg abduction or add those in with some combination of hypers and body weight squats.
oufinny
Well-known member
Going to be joining you Chris, busted up my hand this weekend! Let's hope if they do operate this time it is done right and it is the last time. I may need to hear some more about tabatta as it is something I may do while my bum hand heels.
MrKleen73
Legend
Thanks Josh!
Thanks Jason!
Man I hate to hear that. So I think I am going to recruit you for my new program I am about to make. Seems you might be in need of it too. You will see what I am talking about in my post below.
I will say even though I touched on it already. I hit the gym Saturday but it was a very saddening experience. I was feeling out leg work I can do and with the immobilizer on I wont really be able to even do leg presses. I put my arm about where it would be and will only have inches worth of range of motion under it. This is going to take some extra creativity on my part to find solid ways to workout. I am also getting a little detoured on my effort to cut up. I don't have tons of motivation right now to really dig for a cut. The more my shoulder limits me the harder it becomes to motivate myself to be strict on my diet. I have been watching my intake but letting go more than I should for a cut. I can't be sure if I will redevelop motivation here or just maintain my condition at this point.
I am already having some withdrawal from the weights. However my shoulder situation continues to deteriorate daily. I feel pain just a little more, a little more often and a little more intense. Basically just moving the arm can get it going now but seems completely random I may move 15 times in the same way and it only hurt 1 time. Since I can not isolate a type of movement that is triggering it now, I am not lifting but am trying not to stop doing everything with it. I am still picking up my daughter for her "jump hugs" and that won't stop until it absolutely has too.
I have been meaning to work on a training idea I had regarding making a program out of posing and flexing through some ranges of motion. I think I may try to use this time to see what I can do in that regard and see if I can keep some of my upper body conditioning that way. I am going to come up with some good poses / flexes that use a lot of antagonistic muscle based resistance. Using targeted flexing and posing to come up a program I can use in the interim. I have to come up with something to keep me from being consumed with not being able to lift.
DreamWeaver
Legend
With mine it's been more a matter of rebuilding strength from a torn cap muscle, it's taken me 2 and a half years but I am finally able to push the weight up a bit. I am still about 40 lbs away from my best lifts on bench and incline but there's light at the end of the tunnel. I have an apporintment with the chiro tomorrow...
edwitt
Well-known member
MrKleen73
Legend
Final Review of the ERASE and Alpha-T2
Final Review of the ERASE and Alpha-T2
I want to go ahead and get this out now, I have another few days or so on the Alpha-T2 and as we already know I had to stop taking the ERASE due to an injury that has effected the entire outcome of this log unfortunately. However my opinion of both products is actually very high and will go into some detail of each of them below.
PES ERASE -
Week 1 - Well as many of you know I had just completed a PCT about a month before starting this and I just didn't feel that my testosterone levels were up to snuff. My testicals were still smaller than they were before taking the ProHormone. After a few days of being on the ERASE I noticed I was urinating more frequently. Not too much else going on that first week.
Week 2 - Second week starts and I am noticing more of an Alpha Male feeling which had been absent since about the first week of my PCT. I also noticed my libido was starting to get back up to what it was pre cycle. I was retaining less water under my skin and my joints were starting to dry up a bit, and testicles seemed as if they may be a little but fuller. Strength was coming up on my push exercises too.
Week 3 - Even though I was working around injury and not lifting too heavily I continued to notice my Alpha male type aggression levels climbing. Libido sky-rocketed in the 3rd week. I was getting random wood at various times of day and waking up with an erection was basically a given. As a matter of fact I pretty much had an erection each time I woke up in the middle of the night. My shoulder was hurting pretty bad by this point. I had to lighten up the load on the weights. It was this week that I spoke with PES reps regarding the strength of the anti-cortisol properties of ERASE. We came to the agreement that with my injuries worsening I indeed needed higher cortisol levels to help with the inflammation and healing process. SO the ERASE was discontinued at this point.
My overall experience with ERASE was actually very positive and if I hadn't have been injured when starting it the Cortisol issue would not have been a problem. In summary, ERASE did exactly what it stated it should. All signs pointed to increased testosterone levels like increased libido, increased testicular size, and an increase in Alpha Male feeling. I was not able to exploit the strength gains but weights were feeling lighter to me than expected. Even now a week off from using it and my testicles are still very full. So it seems ERASE kicked my natural test levels back up into high gear.
PES ALPHA-T2
This was not my first time using Alpha-T2, I had used it once before with good results during a recomp. I did not push for a cut on this as I initially expected too. I can't lie my motivation took a good hit when it became obvious my shoulder was getting worse not better. I loosened up quite a bit on my food intake during the weekends, well I should say I did not tighten up as much as I should have for my weekends considering I had just been doing a full on carb load every weekend. I needed to tighten my weekends up more. I still kept them lower intake than I was when loading aggressively all weekend. However, I did not keep them clean enough for me to see any amazing weight loss either.
Barring the fact I did not give my diet the attention it deserved I still lost some weight during this period. I am down about 3 lbs right now which is not a WOW factor by any means but considering I haven't really pushed my diet like I should, and my cardio has been very low intensity and limited to 2-3 times a week AND I am not burning the extra calories I do when lifting intensely that is actually a pretty good reaction on the scale. I feel like with how I ate at times I should probably not have lost any weight at all, so that is pretty darn good in my opinion.
Rather than give a time line of the results I will tell you about the experience and things that let me know the A-T2 was in full effect. Generally withing 15-30 minutes after taking a capsule I noticed my body warming up. My hands would get a little warmer too. About an hour after taking it my hands would be sweating and on one or two occasions I sweat enough just sitting here to feel a drop of sweat run down my side. Really a gross feeling when you are not doing anything to sweat... LOL However definite proof of the stellar ability to increase core temperature. During this time I also opted to change my meal plans from a 6 meal a day plan to a 4 meal a day plan. Pushing back some of my feedings by a couple hours. I found that there were times that even though I should have been starving I had to remind myself to eat or even looked down and it was an hour after when my next meal was scheduled and I missed it. That is some great appetite control in my book.
I wish I had the motivation right now to just kill it and cut but with even aerobic activity making my shoulder ache it is hard to get myself motivated right now. I know looking at this particular run you can not tell that I lost a lot of weight and honestly I did not. However this was due to my inconsistency with my diet and my cardio. I will say that ALPHA-T2 is still my favorite thermogenic diet pill and as of right now will definitely be involved in my next competition prep. I feel that strongly about it's quality and effectiveness.
Final Review of the ERASE and Alpha-T2
I want to go ahead and get this out now, I have another few days or so on the Alpha-T2 and as we already know I had to stop taking the ERASE due to an injury that has effected the entire outcome of this log unfortunately. However my opinion of both products is actually very high and will go into some detail of each of them below.
PES ERASE -
Week 1 - Well as many of you know I had just completed a PCT about a month before starting this and I just didn't feel that my testosterone levels were up to snuff. My testicals were still smaller than they were before taking the ProHormone. After a few days of being on the ERASE I noticed I was urinating more frequently. Not too much else going on that first week.
Week 2 - Second week starts and I am noticing more of an Alpha Male feeling which had been absent since about the first week of my PCT. I also noticed my libido was starting to get back up to what it was pre cycle. I was retaining less water under my skin and my joints were starting to dry up a bit, and testicles seemed as if they may be a little but fuller. Strength was coming up on my push exercises too.
Week 3 - Even though I was working around injury and not lifting too heavily I continued to notice my Alpha male type aggression levels climbing. Libido sky-rocketed in the 3rd week. I was getting random wood at various times of day and waking up with an erection was basically a given. As a matter of fact I pretty much had an erection each time I woke up in the middle of the night. My shoulder was hurting pretty bad by this point. I had to lighten up the load on the weights. It was this week that I spoke with PES reps regarding the strength of the anti-cortisol properties of ERASE. We came to the agreement that with my injuries worsening I indeed needed higher cortisol levels to help with the inflammation and healing process. SO the ERASE was discontinued at this point.
My overall experience with ERASE was actually very positive and if I hadn't have been injured when starting it the Cortisol issue would not have been a problem. In summary, ERASE did exactly what it stated it should. All signs pointed to increased testosterone levels like increased libido, increased testicular size, and an increase in Alpha Male feeling. I was not able to exploit the strength gains but weights were feeling lighter to me than expected. Even now a week off from using it and my testicles are still very full. So it seems ERASE kicked my natural test levels back up into high gear.
PES ALPHA-T2
This was not my first time using Alpha-T2, I had used it once before with good results during a recomp. I did not push for a cut on this as I initially expected too. I can't lie my motivation took a good hit when it became obvious my shoulder was getting worse not better. I loosened up quite a bit on my food intake during the weekends, well I should say I did not tighten up as much as I should have for my weekends considering I had just been doing a full on carb load every weekend. I needed to tighten my weekends up more. I still kept them lower intake than I was when loading aggressively all weekend. However, I did not keep them clean enough for me to see any amazing weight loss either.
Barring the fact I did not give my diet the attention it deserved I still lost some weight during this period. I am down about 3 lbs right now which is not a WOW factor by any means but considering I haven't really pushed my diet like I should, and my cardio has been very low intensity and limited to 2-3 times a week AND I am not burning the extra calories I do when lifting intensely that is actually a pretty good reaction on the scale. I feel like with how I ate at times I should probably not have lost any weight at all, so that is pretty darn good in my opinion.
Rather than give a time line of the results I will tell you about the experience and things that let me know the A-T2 was in full effect. Generally withing 15-30 minutes after taking a capsule I noticed my body warming up. My hands would get a little warmer too. About an hour after taking it my hands would be sweating and on one or two occasions I sweat enough just sitting here to feel a drop of sweat run down my side. Really a gross feeling when you are not doing anything to sweat... LOL However definite proof of the stellar ability to increase core temperature. During this time I also opted to change my meal plans from a 6 meal a day plan to a 4 meal a day plan. Pushing back some of my feedings by a couple hours. I found that there were times that even though I should have been starving I had to remind myself to eat or even looked down and it was an hour after when my next meal was scheduled and I missed it. That is some great appetite control in my book.
I wish I had the motivation right now to just kill it and cut but with even aerobic activity making my shoulder ache it is hard to get myself motivated right now. I know looking at this particular run you can not tell that I lost a lot of weight and honestly I did not. However this was due to my inconsistency with my diet and my cardio. I will say that ALPHA-T2 is still my favorite thermogenic diet pill and as of right now will definitely be involved in my next competition prep. I feel that strongly about it's quality and effectiveness.
oufinny
Well-known member
Great reviews Chris. I am stopping my Erase today as well since I in fact broke my finger and it will need all the help it can get to heal in time for my January cycle (now late January). I agree with both your reviews about the products, they are excellent in my book and if you run a stim thermo with AT-2, it is out of hand.
Rahl
Well-known member
Hey great review. Really sorry about your shoulder bro. I'm with you on the "jump hugs" with your girl. Even when my back was out so bad I had tears in my eyes I still let mine do it. You can't get those back.
I'm really interested in both of these products and after reading your reviews I feel strongly that they will help me when I'm ready to cut. Possibly late winter/early spring.
Good luck to you!
I'm really interested in both of these products and after reading your reviews I feel strongly that they will help me when I'm ready to cut. Possibly late winter/early spring.
Good luck to you!
ex-tightend83
Well-known member
Great review, Chris. I have a bottle of Erase and thinking about grabbing a bottle of the T2. As for the other issue--you're in my prayers, buddy!
Silver3CSRT8
Well-known member
Wishing you the best bro. You continue to inspire me with the way you are battling through it and I know that if it has you ready for surgery it would have lesser men giving up.
MrKleen73
Legend
It is definitely a great and effective cutting stack.
Yes and A-T2 mixed with just about any Pre Workout is something special.
Definitely will be great for that. Yeah my wife told my daughter to stop that I was hurt. I told her hey now wait a minute. I will decide when I can't pick up my girl for lovin. I am gonna give her those jump hugs until it is causing pain every time I do it and even then we will see...
I am just ready to begin recovery what ever that entails. I always told myself I didn't know if I would want to go through the shoulder surgery again it was so painful. However now I am ready to get under a knife, I feel any other course of action may only delay my recovery further. However we will do what Dr. Harvey says.
Thanks Jay! That T2 will do wonders for you my man.
Thanks Bro means a lot. I have just learned that I have to find a way to be in the gym in some capacity. The alternative is horrible. I have worked hard to stay relatively lean and gain some mass. I know if I stop then I am going to be out for a while and have to come back in a fat guy trying to rebuild muscle and lose fat and I just don't feel like making up that kind of ground musch less the emotional damage that would end up doing to me.
MrKleen73
Legend
An update on today, my shoulder deterioration is progressing even in the absence of working out. I opened the door to get into the car and out of no where the pain lit me up with like a Christmas tree. Felt like somethign was caught on that bad spot and I kept trying to move my arm in the socket to get it to free up. Finally it wasn't directly under pressure and the pain started to die down. Damn this thing is really screwed up now. I had a coughing fit this morning and every cough sent a jolt of pain though my shoulder. I have a feeling he may want to put me in a sling to limit movement until I can get in for the operation once I go in for my follow up. Today is the day I get the MRI with Arthrogram. So today is the real beginning to me finding out what is going to happen.
MrKleen73
Legend
Man that sucks! Which fingers? Hammer Strength and other machines will be your friend during healing process as long as the hand is not broken too.
ex-tightend83
Well-known member
Damn, Fin! Good luck with that! What the hell happened?
thundergod
Well-known member
Good news here!! 1 gram of Test-Cypionate per week with around .31 mgs of Letro daily and 10 mgs. of Halotestin 3 days per week pre-workout only.
Best gains in my entire life!!! :woohoo:
DAdams91982
Board Sponsor
Damn Kleen... Even with the problems lately, you still put up one of the most solid reviews I have seen.
Sounds like with that last twinge it is really time to get serious about healing. Have you tried some liniment for temporary pain relief till you know what is going on?
Sounds like with that last twinge it is really time to get serious about healing. Have you tried some liniment for temporary pain relief till you know what is going on?
MrKleen73
Legend
Yeah I am not doing any upper body work at the moment. I decided to take this week off as a mental week now and just figure out my game plan.
Right now it is looking like I will do some lower body work but really just concentrate on keeping myself going to the gym so it will be cardio mostly. I already know I can't get surgery until after the New Year so I am not even considering trying to develop a game plan involving upper body workouts. My follow up is Dec 27th and I will find out then for sure if I need surgery. I have to be honest and say I will be shocked if I get news that a short lay off will repair this. However I recognize the pain from my last torn labrum so I am almost positive that is what it is.
Regardless starting Monday I am going to make sure to be in the gym to get my workout in even if only cardio. I am not going to make a lot of other predictions regarding diet and what not because honestly right now I am not sure how motivated I can get myself and I don't want to be dishonest. My diet even though I know it is most important is not what I love and i need to be doing something I love to go along with the diet to motivate me to eat correctly. I wish it was different but this is who I am... So my progress is limited by my own desire and I have got to get desire to overpower the feeling of helplessness I have right now due to the injury. Wow! That was a pretty profound and on point observation right there.
MrKleen73
Legend
Oh by the way I have used a few different linements as well as Cissus, straight Hylauronic Acid w/ a Tums like you recommended also w/ Manganese tablets, MSM Glucasomine, and Chondroiten, GH products, and of course Ibuprofen. I am currently using Skeletal Balm by Need To Build Muscle. I know I am a rep for them but honestly this stuff is working better than the other stiff I was using. I was using an EMU oil based topical agent but Skeletal Balm seems to work better. My shoulder has been feeling pretty rough becausde they had to do 2 arthrograms meaning they had to put two needles down into my shoulder socket. I have a nice bruise where they moved the needles around trying to get the dye to go around my shoulder capsule. Well it hurts pretty bad but there is a noticeable reduction in site pain when I use the Skelly Balm compared to when I don't. Skeletal balm, also has a medical smell to it. Not sure how to explain it but it smells more like something you would smell at a hospital than say a flex all 454 or something of the like.
MrKleen73
Legend
I am not sure when he will be back around. I know his is doing well, and just had his son Gideon just the other day.
Yes if you are experiencing any pain in your joints or muscle for that matter give Skeletal Balm a shot. Since it helps with the soreness from the bruising I know it works on muscle as well as helping the joints.
Yes if you are experiencing any pain in your joints or muscle for that matter give Skeletal Balm a shot. Since it helps with the soreness from the bruising I know it works on muscle as well as helping the joints.
MrKleen73
Legend
Okay so a tiny bit jealous here... LOL
votum
Well-known member
I know right...I'm sittin here looking at some Tamoxifen and trying to decide if I should pick some other stuff* up as well o.0
MrKleen73
Legend
Is someone thinking a Test base with their DMZ run? Holy SH*T that would be insane. Although man if you are gonna run test do it straight the first time. Feel the difference between how clean that is and then what it feels like with the orals. BLECH!!! WHy is it again I am not pinning instead??? Oh yeah the wife...
oufinny
Well-known member
Right as I get rid of that problem I break my hand and wow, no need to bother with test. It will wait for the future but how much I would like the future to be now.
ex-tightend83
Well-known member
You and me both, Fin...you and me both.
votum
Well-known member
I'd love to do that but don't think I am experienced enough o.0
I got the Tamoxifen for DMZ PCT though
I got a deal on some IGf-1, HGH frag, CJC1295 along with all that PCT stuff...
Order total was 80 bucks for those three above, clen, clomid, nolva, B12 and some letro
edwitt
Well-known member
votum
Well-known member
Yup
@500mg EW that's 5 1/2 weeks
Not so bad at all and u can def improve on that price
I figured
Maybe I will then o.0 Test + DMZ would be amazing as a first real cycle ...
DreamWeaver
Legend
I figured
Maybe I will then o.0 Test + DMZ would be amazing as a first real cycle ...
Wholy fug!! :surprised:
MrKleen73
Legend
So right now I am in a little bit of limbo. I don't know exactly what my plans are during recovery. I am going to do cardio a few times a week and try to maintain maybe clean up a little but I am concerned that going into a cut post surgery could end up having me lose extra mass. I am weighing in at a pretty steady 208-210 now. I am not as lean as I would like but I am not fat either. I look about the same as I did in the pics at the beginning of this log maybe a little heavier, but I am also very full right now, the weight is coming on everywhere. So where my waistline has come up an inch so has my shoulder and chest girth so not overly worried about it right now. I can maintain what I have going on right now damn near effortlessly. Like I said I don't want to go into a strict cut or anything right now even though I do want to be leaner. I am torn here as far as which way to go on this now. Should I try to just maintain my size, or cut up more. I am not realistically going to be able to add size to my legs during this time. Well I don't think I will anyway. So a recomp strategy is not too likely to work for me right now. SO you see I am trying to decide to cut or just take a month to relax a bit and keep my conditioning and body weight as close to what I am right now as possible. My main goal being to hopefully recover in time to do a contest late next year. I could do that if I don't lose too much size during my recovery. I imagine I will try to clean it up to around 200 and stay there not make a big push to cut up any further unless nice and slow and I don't see myself dissappearing.