Is Volume Load the Real Measure of Intensity?

ucimigrate

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Hi Everyone,

I have been reading a lot of studies, but have been trying to distill a message from all of this, about training, over-training, etc.

It seems like more than intensity (% of 1RM), or even training frequency, the big measure is Volume Load= Volume * Weight Lifted.

It seems like the body requires both the combination of weight and reps to grow.

Many of these "one set per lift" programs do not easily work, nor do any of these other supposed revolutionary methods.

It seems like while there are more intelligent ways to workout than others, it simply means pushing your body beyond it's normal work, and this can be done with weight lifted, volume, frequency, tempo, etc. and many different ways.

1. Can anyone add insight?

2. Any very big, systematic studies to do so?

3. Anything else?
 
Smont

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One working set per exercise can work great, but I think ppl see one set and they hop under a bar, do 10 reps and call it the set, that's not how it works.
Example
You hop under a bar do 10-15 reps or whatever, throw on a 45 and do another 10-15 reps, go up to 185 do another 10 reps, now your warmed up. Throw 225 on and grind out 6 or whatever till you just about fail or fail, do a rest pause or drop set till you fail again. Kinda like DC training

That's 1 working set to failure and that will do the job

Now with volume you might see 4x12 on the plan. The person literally does 4 total sets. Well that's wrong. You need to get your worm up sets in and once you reach your working weight, now your ready to do 4 sets of 12. This also works well for a lot of people.

At the end of the day what really matters is that your next workout you either do more reps with the same weight or the same reps with a heavier weight.

You either add reps, weight time under tension or more sets and you will make progress.

Do more then last time and eat accordingly and rest enough and nothing else really matters.

Consistency is key. I fall victim to switching up my goals too often or not being consistent for whatever reason, but one thing I know for certain is that any time I go for 6 weeks or longer following those rules I make progress and any time I switch it up for no reason or my diet falls off I make no progress
 
TESTP89

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The term 'failure' is used too loosely.

Unless it's completely failing on the negative and the spotter has to lift the weight for you to rack it, then it isn't failure.
 
Smont

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The term 'failure' is used too loosely.

Unless it's completely failing on the negative and the spotter has to lift the weight for you to rack it, then it isn't failure.
That's really subjective I guess, I understand what you're saying completely. But you can hit muscular failure with proper form long before someone would hit complete failure by doing sloppy bouncing reps and cheating and all kinds of stuff that's going to get them hurt.

It's one of the reasons I like DC style training that short break of 10 seconds or whatever or basically any rest pause sets so you hit just about failure take a break and then squeeze out a few more reps.

It's just like everything else in the fitness world if you ask 10 people you going to get 10 different answers
 
Smont

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What thread am I in lol. I thought I was in one of your threads about estrogen lol
 
TESTP89

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That's really subjective I guess, I understand what you're saying completely. But you can hit muscular failure with proper form long before someone would hit complete failure by doing sloppy bouncing reps and cheating and all kinds of stuff that's going to get them hurt.

It's one of the reasons I like DC style training that short break of 10 seconds or whatever or basically any rest pause sets so you hit just about failure take a break and then squeeze out a few more reps.

It's just like everything else in the fitness world if you ask 10 people you going to get 10 different answers
Yeah but with dc.. Its great but you're really doing positive failure... To get to that next level you need forced reps and negatives..Complete failure and they to me is complete.

It fucking smashes your nervous system though if you do it regular..Especially if you're natty
 
TESTP89

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To be honest unless you have a spot you're not even necessarily doing positive failure as you have to with some exercises have enough strength in the positive phase to rack the weight.
 
Smont

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Yeah but with dc.. Its great but you're really doing positive failure... To get to that next level you need forced reps and negatives..Complete failure and they to me is complete.

It fucking smashes your nervous system though if you do it regular..Especially if you're natty
I have a question though, why would you want to do that to yourself?

In many situations it's going to be counterproductive. Also I find myself getting closer to overtraining on gear than I did natural because on gear I can lift heavier weights for more reps and more sets so when I'm natural or even on trt I can't push as hard and get as close to beating myself up
 
Smont

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To be honest unless you have a spot you're not even necessarily doing positive failure as you have to with some exercises have enough strength in the positive phase to rack the weight.
There's a million ways to hit failure without a spot, Smith machine dumbbells lifting in a power rack with the safety bars using machines or cables. You just don't want to try to hit failure with no spot on a free weight bench press or squat
 
TESTP89

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I have a question though, why would you want to do that to yourself?

In many situations it's going to be counterproductive. Also I find myself getting closer to overtraining on gear than I did natural because on gear I can lift heavier weights for more reps and more sets so when I'm natural or even on trt I can't push as hard and get as close to beating myself up
Is how I started...Completely butchering yourself to get the most from everything.

I put on a lot of size naturally from this training...I mean you never know how much you can gain until you are being pushed as hard as you're able to.....

I mean you have to have a thorough hatred for yourself and frustration to do it for so long and for that amount of intensity.

Like purging the pain from yourself😂
 

Foxx13

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I think there is a lot that goes into this question. First are you over training, over reaching, or under recovered. Most people in my opinion will never hit the point of overtraining, nor should they. OR did you just under recover…Overreaching on the other hand is critical to grow your base. I’ve always enjoyed using a percent based program and will push whatever I’m doing that day by a rep or two or 5-10lbs if I have it. It keeps me in the pocket without over doing it. I’m at a point in my life that I also don’t want to be beat to hell the next day, work, kids, and life don’t stop. BUT as I go through my cycles I need to know where I was last time, what I was doing, and am I progressing. Not just at my max day but during all phases. On more isolated exercises I go to failure and push them hard. on my press, deadlift, and squat I use percentages to gauge where I am at and progress compared to last time.

I think it comes down to what you want to achieve, how much y oh r willing to devote to training, how hard you can/want to push yourself( this is learned over time), and ultimately what works best for you.
 

Foxx13

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I’ve also done it the other way when I competed. I pushed hard, trained 4x a week, sessions were 2-3 hours, and at times was completely beat down. Was I over trained? I don’t think I was but I was definetly over reaching on the upper end. This was a planned out program and that overreaching was part of it. Say I did 90-95% of my max for 3-4 singles in the C+J, my CNS was fried. The. Heavy snatches two days later. If all went well I would make most of those lifts. Then the next 3-7 days I may have trouble hitting 80-85% of my max. I was not over trained I was over reaching and under recovered, BUT I believe that’s part of what got me to higher levels of training and a better overall Max 4-6 months down the road.
 

Foxx13

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One last thing that my coach would say is do you want to lift 5-10kg more in a few months or 30-40kgore in a few years. Your training plan and intensity need to reflect this and they are two very different beasts IMO.
 
Cheeky Monkey

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I like to reduce rest times between sets to increase intensity. So after 1st set, I rest for 60 seconds. 2nd set 50 seconds, 3rd set 40 seconds and so on.
 
Smont

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Is how I started...Completely butchering yourself to get the most from everything.

I put on a lot of size naturally from this training...I mean you never know how much you can gain until you are being pushed as hard as you're able to.....

I mean you have to have a thorough hatred for yourself and frustration to do it for so long and for that amount of intensity.

Like purging the pain from yourself😂
When I do high rep squats this happens, il get to 10-12 and failure is near but I'll stand there with the weight on my shoulders take a couple breaths and squeeze out another two or three, and repeat till I get 20+. Il often be mumbling under my breath, swearing "fukin little bitch" or il repeatedly say "**** you" in between reps. Ive cried before too. Not pain from lifting. Just zoned really far out during my set and thinking of the most horrible things possible. No clue why I take it there. I dont hate anyone, but in that moment I really hate myself.

This is not a regular occurrence. This is like once every few leg days I find that "zone"

I also go there when I'm boxing sometimes. Il take my shoulders to true failure on the Punching bag to where I can't even shadow box after. But again. It's rare. I don't feel like it's sustainable to hit that type of failure more than once or twice a month. I can do it, I can train though it. But the more often I do stuff like that the more my performance goes downhill
 

Jstrong20

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To be honest unless you have a spot you're not even necessarily doing positive failure as you have to with some exercises have enough strength in the positive phase to rack the weight.
You can in a lot of exercises. Do dumbbell fly's until failure. Then press the weight up then slowly do negative flys. Also can do similar with skull crushers and cheat curls.
 
Smont

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You can in a lot of exercises. Do dumbbell fly's until failure. Then press the weight up then slowly do negative flys. Also can do similar with skull crushers and cheat curls.
Pretty much every exercise except for a free weight barbell bench press and a barbell squat you can manage a way to do it
 

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