How do you measure volume?

[Dustin07]

Now that I'm measuring volume, I'm curious if anyone has any idea of what it means (LOL).

My squat volume the past few sessions:

10/17/2022 = 10,925lbs
10/24/2022 = 10,725lbs
10/31/2022 = 7,805lbs
11/15/2022 = 12,360lbs
11/21/2022 = 12,585lbs
11/28/2022 = 16,595lbs

In theory, if I add 5lbs to each warm up and working set then my next squat session would be 17,065lbs.

It's an interesting way to track my output and effort applied but I'm not sure what meaningful information I can truly pull from this. Is there a point of diminishing returns? Is it just an accountability tool? Does it matter at all since in theory my entire goal is to increase weight?

Maybe 2nd squat day per week should be higher intensity and half the volume?

so maybe Friday looks like this:

and next monday looks like this?

 

[GreenMachineX]

Now that I'm measuring volume, I'm curious if anyone has any idea of what it means (LOL).

My squat volume the past few sessions:

10/17/2022 = 10,925lbs
10/24/2022 = 10,725lbs
10/31/2022 = 7,805lbs
11/15/2022 = 12,360lbs
11/21/2022 = 12,585lbs
11/28/2022 = 16,595lbs

In theory, if I add 5lbs to each warm up and working set then my next squat session would be 17,065lbs.

It's an interesting way to track my output and effort applied but I'm not sure what meaningful information I can truly pull from this. Is there a point of diminishing returns? Is it just an accountability tool? Does it matter at all since in theory my entire goal is to increase weight?

Maybe 2nd squat day per week should be higher intensity and half the volume?

so maybe Friday looks like this:
View attachment 225402
and next monday looks like this?

View attachment 225401

I just follow the latest Stronger By Science recommendation of hard sets, regardless of sets, 4rir or less. But I also look at total tonnage as well occasionally.

 

[match]

I'd recommend tracking your time under tension and tempo as well. Lifting at a tempo of 5010 is gonna produce a lot more TUT than a tempo of 1013.

Tonnage is only part of the equation. But it's science, which is always great!

 

[Dustin07]

I just follow the latest Stronger By Science recommendation of hard sets, regardless of sets, 4rir or less. But I also look at total tonnage as well occasionally.

I'd be curious to learn more if you have an article or TLDR. I just stumbled over this one and while I find the subjects to be questionable (a handful of women in their 20s) the findings are interesting

Everything There is to Know About High-Load versus Low-Load Training

There has been a plethora of research comparing high- and low-load training over the past decade. This article breaks down everything you could want to know about those comparisons, while also tackling a new study that may have implications for long-term adherence with low-load training.

www.strongerbyscience.com

 

[Dustin07]

I'd recommend tracking your time under tension and tempo as well. Lifting at a tempo of 5010 is gonna produce a lot more TUT than a tempo of 1013.

Tonnage is only part of the equation. But it's science, which is always great!

It's funny you mention that because the first stronger by science article I grabbed there is diving into TUT.

I mean anecdotally we all know the differences in high rep/volume, intensity, tut etc. but after 2 decades of doing this I need to periodically ask myself "why" again and relearn the things I already knew to get info from a new perspective. always learning ....

 

[GreenMachineX]

I'd be curious to learn more if you have an article or TLDR. I just stumbled over this one and while I find the subjects to be questionable (a handful of women in their 20s) the findings are interesting

Everything There is to Know About High-Load versus Low-Load Training

There has been a plethora of research comparing high- and low-load training over the past decade. This article breaks down everything you could want to know about those comparisons, while also tackling a new study that may have implications for long-term adherence with low-load training.

www.strongerbyscience.com

I don't see the moment, but there's a ton of info on that site if you search the podcast directory for volume. They dive into it a lot.

 

[Dustin07]

wow. this could be relevant for me actually.

Dietary protein intake does not modulate daily myofibrillar protein synthesis rates or loss of muscle mass and function during short-term immobilization in young men: a randomized controlled trial - PubMed

Three days of muscle disuse induces considerable declines in muscle mass and daily MyoPS rates. However, daily protein intake does not modulate any of these muscle deconditioning responses.Clinical trial registry number: NCT03797781.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Marne40]

I'd recommend tracking your time under tension and tempo as well. Lifting at a tempo of 5010 is gonna produce a lot more TUT than a tempo of 1013.

Tonnage is only part of the equation. But it's science, which is always great!

I’ve never tried a 5010 tempo. Looks like my boobs will get some of this tonight

 

[Resolve10]

As usual this stuff isn't exactly cut and dry, but I'll try to not get too lost in all the different directions this could go.

First, keep in mind goals. Differentiating volume for hypertrophy, strength, endurance, etc. may necessitate different end results and processes.

Next, tonnage (rep x set x weight) is probably what you will see most prevalent in the literature, but isn't always super practical in a real world application. Maybe as a way to occasionally "check in", but I find it way too cumbersome to do super frequently (or necessary). ((personal opinion others may differ))

I probably am most similar to G-man's response above. I tend not to "count" anything under 7 rpe and 3 RIR personally* (plenty of caveats to this maybe mentioned below). I haven't kept up with EVERY study the SBS guys have delved into the last couple years and I am unsure what is available for free on their site, but this is the study Zourdos critiques where he goes into the 7 RPE threshold for sets of greater than 6 repetitions as, for now, being a pretty good potential guideline.

Keep in mind whenever we talk about these things there are a lot of caveats as well, which is why appropriate coaching and individualization of the approach may be warranted. Like how higher RPE sets may limit volume both during that day (can't repeat sets due to fatigue) or later in the week (session creates fatigue that eats into recovery for later in the week sessions) etc etc etc (can always dive more into that, but don't want to get too off topic on potential variables).

*There is also potentially research that shows even lower RPE (5-6) may be appropriate to still facilitate hypertrophy for moderate to higher repetitions. This just "feels" right to me as well both from personal application and practical application sense as the further above double digit repetitions you go I tend to feel RPE becomes more fuzzy.

Ok don't want to keep word vomitting so I'll end there, with just the final caveat that regardless of what is "optimal" and what people decide the biggest thing may be just being consistent with your tracking approach. What someone counts as 8 sets may be 10 to another (totally arbitrary numbers here), but being able to adjust and manipulate that as you go forward with a system in place for yourself is probably the most beneficial place to be.

 

[Resolve10]

FWIW on the TUT conversation I generally don't think (and the articles on SBS probably echo this) that purposeful increases in TUT are that beneficial for hypertrophy given you already adequately control the weight and don't have any other issues.

Example Study

I still do some as changes of pace and they can have use for teaching technique, ensuring not moving too fast in the eccentric (taking advantage of proper stretch reflex), etc.

 

[MrKleen73]

Dr. Mike Israetel has some great videos explaining volume and how to increase them on the Renaissance Periodization Youtube site. Not only is he very informative and easy to understand but he is funny as hell too.

https://www.youtube.com/@RenaissancePeriodization/search?query=volume

 

[Dustin07]

I’ve never tried a 5010 tempo. Looks like my boobs will get some of this tonight

honestly I think 5010 tempo is my default style of squat once weight hits about 75-80% lol. I start to drop is slow slow slow slow

 

[BCseacow83]

From my training log:

11/18/2022

Upper Body Weights

38,585 lbs lifted in 1:10:00

Tempo is pretty standard for me at 2-3 eccentric, 0-1 pause, 1-3 concentric, 0 so on average 2120.

I am tracking total weight moved as I am doing a crazy(for me) 40th Bday challenge I created. The tentative plan is

40 TONS(80,000) lbs lifted cumulatively and run 40K on my 40th bday. Working title 40+40on40th!

I'm asking my friends and family to pledge(in leu of any gifts they planned to give me) per ton or k or both and we will donate to the local no kill independent animal shelter. This is a mini dry run for a charity my wife and I are planning on starting a few years down the road.

Normally I don't track total lbs but they really add up but obviously doing 35 sets with warm-up weights would also add up but would be unlikely to elicit significant adaptation. When lifting was the priority "working sets" or "effort sets" or "max effort" sets were what I counted and played with "volume" wise.

 

[celc5]

Dr. Mike Israetel has some great videos explaining volume and how to increase them on the Renaissance Periodization Youtube site. Not only is he very informative and easy to understand but he is funny as hell too.

https://www.youtube.com/@RenaissancePeriodization/search?query=volume

I was about to suggest the same!
Old guys thinking alike ha ha

There's also a ton of studies linked in the original HST pdf with specific TUT pace as it relates to hypertrophy, how much effort is required to ensure hypertrophy with progressive load, and just a bunch of sciencey specifics that clean up any program that we choose.

 

[MrKleen73]

I was about to suggest the same!
Old guys thinking alike ha ha

There's also a ton of studies linked in the original HST pdf with specific TUT pace as it relates to hypertrophy, how much effort is required to ensure hypertrophy with progressive load, and just a bunch of sciencey specifics that clean up any program that we choose.

Long time no speak man!

HST is such a fail proof program too! I learned a lot from his site back in the day, and built a lot of my muscle from that program.

 

[Dustin07]

From my training log:

11/18/2022

Upper Body Weights

38,585 lbs lifted in 1:10:00

Tempo is pretty standard for me at 2-3 eccentric, 0-1 pause, 1-3 concentric, 0 so on average 2120.

I am tracking total weight moved as I am doing a crazy(for me) 40th Bday challenge I created. The tentative plan is

40 TONS(80,000) lbs lifted cumulatively and run 40K on my 40th bday. Working title 40+40on40th!

I'm asking my friends and family to pledge(in leu of any gifts they planned to give me) per ton or k or both and we will donate to the local no kill independent animal shelter. This is a mini dry run for a charity my wife and I are planning on starting a few years down the road.

Normally I don't track total lbs but they really add up but obviously doing 35 sets with warm-up weights would also add up but would be unlikely to elicit significant adaptation. When lifting was the priority "working sets" or "effort sets" or "max effort" sets were what I counted and played with "volume" wise.

That's awesome man, I had similar thoughts for my 40th back in October but there's no way you're catching me running 24 miles lol. The 40 tons for sure would be an awesome challenge.

 

[MrKleen73]

That's awesome man, I had similar thoughts for my 40th back in October but there's no way you're catching me running 24 miles lol. The 40 tons for sure would be an awesome challenge.

Maybe 40 minutes of cardio!

 

[BCseacow83]

That's awesome man, I had similar thoughts for my 40th back in October but there's no way you're catching me running 24 miles lol. The 40 tons for sure would be an awesome challenge.

I have never run further than a mile and that was a longtime ago. I have avoided it like the plague. I am no longer able to challenge myself with weights the way I want to. To be frank I am bored with what I can still do and derive very little joy from it these days. I will of course continue to lift in some capacity but I needed something I could go 100% at, improve on and NOT get hurt. Yes I know you can get hurt running but I have NONE of the injuries running causes/exacerbates and am entering into it with the brain of a 40 year old placing injury prevention as a top priority.

I have to say I am LOVING it. New challenge everyday. New PR's or Personal FKT's lol. Progress being made again and an improvement in mood that I used to get from weights but have been lacking.

 

[Dustin07]

LOL the irony sorta cracks me up. Running has caused me so many more injuries than lifting over the years. a 5k would flare up my planta fasciitis for probably 3 months or worse...

 

[Resolve10]

I have never run further than a mile and that was a longtime ago. I have avoided it like the plague. I am no longer able to challenge myself with weights the way I want to. To be frank I am bored with what I can still do and derive very little joy from it these days. I will of course continue to lift in some capacity but I needed something I could go 100% at, improve on and NOT get hurt. Yes I know you can get hurt running but I have NONE of the injuries running causes/exacerbates and am entering into it with the brain of a 40 year old placing injury prevention as a top priority.

I have to say I am LOVING it. New challenge everyday. New PR's or Personal FKT's lol. Progress being made again and an improvement in mood that I used to get from weights but have been lacking.

Ya it’s always great to find a new way to keep things fresh and finding a challenge.

Properly structuring a running program should avoid many potential injury issues when done correctly. Having a balanced training background should potentially help as well.

There are definitely some things lifting programs can learn from endurance programs and vice versa. You may find some fresh new takes and approaches when/if ready to dive back more into the weights.