Actually my label is exactly the same, it lacks the Reishi mushroom and ursolic acid.
You are fine, both retailer and Epiq are trustworthy.Hoping I just bought some remaining stock on the cheap, and didn't actually get ripped off.
Ok, so I asked the seller/manufacturer if it was standardized, here is what they replied with:Well, the dose in grams should remain the same for powder as with granules, assuming their the same thing, just one is a powder. Some say de-oiled (which is good, the granules/powder has more PA than liquid lecithin), and some are standardized for a minimum total phosphatidites, which is also nice. However, you should be looking at 4-7% PA from lecithin granules/powder. With that in mind, to be sure you get 750mg PA (the studied dose) you want at least 18.75g lecithin, which would give you between 750-1312mg PA. For the granules, that's about 2.5tbsp. The powder may need a little less, as it'd be tighter packed, but I'm not sure.
Thanks. 2 TBS of the powder is just shy of 18g, so if I rounded the TBS that should put me over.Well, minimum is 4%, so I would target a minimum of about 18,75g or a little bit more. My 98% lecithine indicates this data on its label and seems to be in line with what can be found online
Bad formulation, but at it's current price, it's easy to ignore it because you get capped PA.What are all the other ingredients in epiq in there for? Why not just straight Mediator PA?
If you've never tried PA, you definitely should. It's good during cutting, bulking, recomping, and it can be found fairly cheap and has proven benefits via anecdote and studies.Man, I need to try this stuff for real.
Yeah, I was just reading up on it. I'm thinking about getting Tr1umph by OL.If you've never tried PA, you definitely should. It's good during cutting, bulking, recomping, and it can be found fairly cheap and has proven benefits via anecdote and studies.
If you can find a good deal on it, go for it. I think if you're skeptical of the ingredient (which I assume so because you haven't tried it yet) then you should go with Fearn Soy Lecithin. ~12$ a month for a 750+mg dosage is very cost effective and makes it a no brainer. Also, if you want to test PA itself, then that is the best way to go. OL Tr1umph has a lot of ingredients in it, although they're only staples.Yeah, I was just reading up on it. I'm thinking about getting Tr1umph by OL.
Yeah, thanks amigo. I've heard and read about PA before but just never tried it. You think I should try it by itself rather in a blend like Tr1umph? But yeah, the ingredient profile in OL's product is amazing.If you can find a good deal on it, go for it. I think if you're skeptical of the ingredient (which I assume so because you haven't tried it yet) then you should go with Fearn Soy Lecithin. ~12$ a month for a 750+mg dosage is very cost effective and makes it a no brainer. Also, if you want to test PA itself, then that is the best way to go. OL Tr1umph has a lot of ingredients in it, although they're only staples.
Tr1umph is great and the profile is good, but at the same time, if you really want to try PA itself and see how it works for you, it's best to eliminate the variables.Yeah, thanks amigo. I've heard and read about PA before but just never tried it. You think I should try it by itself rather in a blend like Tr1umph? But yeah, the ingredient profile in OL's product is amazing.
Makes complete sense. Do you have a good recommendation on where to get the Fearn Soy Lecithin?Tr1umph is great and the profile is good, but at the same time, if you really want to try PA itself and see how it works for you, it's best to eliminate the variables.
Went ahead and grabbed Fearn's SL during my lunch break. Sprinkled 2TBS on my chicken and rice that I had. We'll see how it goes.Tr1umph is great and the profile is good, but at the same time, if you really want to try PA itself and see how it works for you, it's best to eliminate the variables.
You will probably want 3 to guarantee a minimum of 750mg PA.Went ahead and grabbed Fearn's SL during my lunch break. Sprinkled 2TBS on my chicken and rice that I had. We'll see how it goes.
Oh yeah. My plan was and is to have 2tbs for lunch and another 1-2tbs during my dinner. Today is my off day at the gym.You will probably want 3 to guarantee a minimum of 750mg PA.
I would stay at 3 tbs if you are just starting it for the first time. See how 3 tbs treats you then you can go up to 4 tbs if you feel it's necessary. Higher doses can cause some mild side effects.Oh yeah. My plan was and is to have 2tbs for lunch and another 1-2tbs during my dinner. Today is my off day at the gym.
Roger that! Thanks for the tip ELROCK!I would stay at 3 tbs if you are just starting it for the first time. See how 3 tbs treats you then you can go up to 4 tbs if you feel it's necessary. Higher doses can cause some mild side effects.
You will probably want 3 to guarantee a minimum of 750mg PA.
The label is incorrect....or makes "assumptions". SL granules are anywhere from 4-7%...which means you MAY get 1200...or much less.Wait, doesn't 2 tbsp of Fearn granules already have like 1200mg PA? Even if that's a high estimate, 2 tbsp should still provide at least 750mg, no?
Ah got it... thanks. Also, I'm a little outdated on this, but just to confirm... more PA is still better, right? 750mg minimum, but 1.5mg doubly good? Thinking of using tr1umph and epiq together.The label is incorrect....or makes "assumptions". SL granules are anywhere from 4-7%...which means you MAY get 1200...or much less.
A select few have tried 2200+ mg. I would say diminishing returns past 1500mg, but it is your moneyAh got it... thanks. Also, I'm a little outdated on this, but just to confirm... more PA is still better, right? 750mg minimum, but 1.5mg doubly good? Thinking of using tr1umph and epiq together.
I don't recall any dose response curve studies. Wilson just used 750mg, check the new MaxxTor study for what they used. You can't increase mTOR infinitely - but I think 1500mg is within reason.Ah got it... thanks. Also, I'm a little outdated on this, but just to confirm... more PA is still better, right? 750mg minimum, but 1.5mg doubly good? Thinking of using tr1umph and epiq together.
A select few have tried 2200+ mg. I would say diminishing returns past 1500mg, but it is your money
Got it, as long as it's not a waste... I thought I remembered reading in this thread several months ago that more PA is better, but just wanted to check if opinions had changed since then. (will try to dig up the old posts.)I don't recall any dose response curve studies. Wilson just used 750mg, check the new MaxxTor study for what they used. You can't increase mTOR infinitely - but I think 1500mg is within reason.
No studies in particular, but anecdote has shown that you get more increased glycogen retention and muscle fullness per higher dosage (via both caps or granules). Also, awhile back, Danes discussed this with Wilson and Wilson agreed that more would definitely be better, but it was only a matter of diminishing returns. Me, personally, I hated granules, so I just did the minimum "guaranteed" dosage of 3 TbSp.I don't recall any dose response curve studies. Wilson just used 750mg, check the new MaxxTor study for what they used. You can't increase mTOR infinitely - but I think 1500mg is within reason.
They use standardized soy lecithin. There's no concern (or even difference) between Tr1umph and Soy Lecithin Granules except you know exactly how much PA you're getting.Also, has there been any concern that tr1umph doesn't seem to use Mediator brand PA?
I'd argue that this little Epiq BOGO is very cost effective for now. 2 months worth of 750mg PA for 30 bucks, pretty damn good.Granules are fine, but a pill would be better. Just not cost effective yet for me.
Not only Stout but Dr Wilson too
I used 1.5g from april and i clearly felt 750mg was nothing to brag of. But 1.5g was much better..
Increase in apetitte
Musclefulness
Size and strength
I asked wilson would 3g PA be more beneficial than regular 750mg ..
Answer:
To be honest based on our cell culture data I think it would work better
Those who dont feel anything from PA i recommend to increase at least to 1.5g but really should play with even higher dosages
Yeah. 1.5g is probably the best dosage.Found it...
Agreed... $15/month is only a couple bucks more than the Fearn granules after all, plus it's the concentrated mediator stuff.I'd argue that this little Epiq BOGO is very cost effective for now. 2 months worth of 750mg PA for 30 bucks, pretty damn good.
It sure beats consuming 2-3 tbsp of granules. I hate that filmy texture my mouth has for like hours after.Agreed... $15/month is only a couple bucks more than the Fearn granules after all, plus it's the concentrated mediator stuff.
Yeah, I hear you my friend. I was talking more along the lines of "How much more mass will I put on if I eat 500g of protein, vs 250g?" There's a point where more won't matter. Like you said - diminishing returns.No studies in particular, but anecdote has shown that you get more increased glycogen retention and muscle fullness per higher dosage (via both caps or granules). Also, awhile back, Danes discussed this with Wilson and Wilson agreed that more would definitely be better, but it was only a matter of diminishing returns. Me, personally, I hated granules, so I just did the minimum "guaranteed" dosage of 3 TbSp.
But certain people do not like the extra fat cals, or the taste of SL.At 1.5g pa that is still $30/month. Still feel granules is half that price of not better.
The math also depends heavily on how much PA you believe is actually in a 15g serving of granules, despite the label claim. As briefly discussed earlier, the typical range often cited is 4-7%, which would be anywhere from 600mg to 1050mg. 1200mg as claimed on the label would be 8%.At 1.5g pa that is still $30/month. Still feel granules is half that price of not better.
Agree. Great postThe math also depends heavily on how much PA you believe is actually in a 15g serving of granules, despite the label claim. As briefly discussed earlier, the typical range often cited is 4-7%, which would be anywhere from 600mg to 1050mg. 1200mg as claimed on the label would be 8%.
so, for a $12 tub of granules...
600mg per serving = $1 per 1500mg
750mg per serving = $0.80 per 1500mg
1000mg per serving = $0.60 per 1500mg
1200mg per serving = $0.50 per 1500mg
The Epiq caps at current BOGO price of $15 per bottle = $1.07 per 1500mg
So yes, more expensive, but not super clear exactly how much more expensive without knowing the exact amount of PA in the granules.
That's how most do it. When I was on the granules previously, I would actually mix it in with my preworkout for flavor, and then let it sit for like 20min. Letting it sit caused the granules to dissolve a bit and made it less of a chore to drink down.Can I just chug or chase down the granules in a liquid? Has anyone done this?
Oh okay. Yeah, I've been mixing it in my food like rice and even in my oatmeal, but you're right, it does dissolve after a few minutes. I'm going to try chugging it this evening. For some unknown reason, the taste doesn't bother me. Thanks warpy!That's how most do it. When I was on the granules previously, I would actually mix it in with my preworkout for flavor, and then let it sit for like 20min. Letting it sit caused the granules to dissolve a bit and made it less of a chore to drink down.
Wayyy back in this thread I asked if mixing granules into hot food would degrade the PA content at all, and was advised that it very well might. That's why I stuck with a drink rather than putting them into oatmeal. Still not sure if it was ever true or not.Oh okay. Yeah, I've been mixing it in my food like rice and even in my oatmeal, but you're right, it does dissolve after a few minutes. I'm going to try chugging it this evening. For some unknown reason, the taste doesn't bother me. Thanks warpy!
Oh really? Okay, good to know. I'll keep it away from anything hot.Wayyy back in this thread I asked if mixing granules into hot food would degrade the PA content at all, and was advised that it very well might. That's why I stuck with a drink rather than putting them into oatmeal.
Yup, you're hearing it 3rd hand though, and I don't even remember who originally told me that. Tried to find the old post just now, but came up empty. At the time I had no idea if it was even true, but figured better safe than sorry.Oh really? Okay, good to know. I'll keep it away from anything hot.