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I'm on Phosphatidic acid Ya'll

Guys...I've been using cutler king v2 and heard it was underdosed..got the MT phospha muscle now but I still have 1 bottle of king left...if I take 2 caps of king, how many caps of phospha muscle would you take + the 2 king caps for the recommended dose;)? Though of doing 2 king and 2 phospha untill my king bottle is empty, and then run 5 caps of phospha;)?
 
john.patterson said:
I've read through several pages of this thread, and I've seen some comments on fasted training, but I have a question:

Does anyone on SL train fasted? I work out first thing in the morning: wake up, put on clothes, drink my pre, and drive to the gym. Does anyone have any advice or experience with taking 2 tbsp of SL before training fasted? Just curious, thanks guys.
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Yup. I've been training fasted for years, and still do. I take 3 tbsp. of SL pre-training and it's been normal/fine. What info do you need?
 
ma70 said:
Yup. I've been training fasted for years, and still do. I take 3 tbsp. of SL pre-training and it's been normal/fine. What info do you need?
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Awesome, thanks for the quick feedback. I've been reading into SL a lot and it looks promising, I just wasn't sure how it would work since I training fasted in the morning. So you take 3 tbsp pre on an empty stomach and then 2 more post?
 
john.patterson said:
Awesome, thanks for the quick feedback. I've been reading into SL a lot and it looks promising, I just wasn't sure how it would work since I training fasted in the morning. So you take 3 tbsp pre on an empty stomach and then 2 more post?
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I've dialed back how much SL I'm taking in because the taste is getting to be annoying/boring to me. I've done the following:

2 pre/2 post
3 pre/1 post
3 pre (as I've dialed back my SL)

Normal stuff. My stomach is fine and I still notice muscle fullness, etc.
 
Thanks! I think I'm going to give it a shot, everything I've been reading makes it sound pretty awesome. I really appreciate the quick responses
 
hey guys can i take Vital1ty and phosphamuscle??? plus im taking ep1c unleashed is that too much PA

is that stuff in viatlty the same thing as phospha muscle? lecitins or king?
 
TheIronAsylum said:
hey guys can i take Vital1ty and phosphamuscle??? plus im taking ep1c unleashed is that too much PA

is that stuff in viatlty the same thing as phospha muscle? lecitins or king?
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Yes, you can stack those. That will make for a good run. Btw Vital1ty does not have PA in it. It has PS in it which has its own set of benefits.
 
TheIronAsylum said:
hey guys can i take Vital1ty and phosphamuscle??? plus im taking ep1c unleashed is that too much PA

is that stuff in viatlty the same thing as phospha muscle? lecitins or king?
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No problem stacking.

As said, PS has its own benefits...but also increases mTOR like PA does via the same MOA (just not to as great of an extent). They will work in a synergistic manner together.
 
xo0ox said:
According to the study, yes...

The study indicates that PA and Leucine together rapidly gives a huge boost in mTOR but it does not translate into greater MPS (muscle protein synthesis) but can acually inhibit and blunt the MPS compared to only leucine or only PA.
MPS is what we want and an increase in mTOR usually gives just that but the process is complicated and it could be so that PA and Leucine raise it to much that the body reacts in an negative feedback and blunts MPS.

This still is a very new study and no conclusions should be drawn just yet.
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If true though, I'm not sure why I'm taking this stuff. I have protein in the morning, then train about 2 hours later with my pre-workout containing BCAA's, then protein post-workout. So when on earth do I take PA if I'm doing that?
 
Johnston said:
If true though, I'm not sure why I'm taking this stuff. I have protein in the morning, then train about 2 hours later with my pre-workout containing BCAA's, then protein post-workout. So when on earth do I take PA if I'm doing that?
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You have nothing to worry about to be honest
 
Danes said:
You have nothing to worry about to be honest
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Well I've mostly been having PA with my breakfast... less leucine in that meal anyway. If I switched to pre-workout, what with my BCAA's there and also intra-workout, that may not be so wise if I'd be seeing a more significant blunting of MPS as a result.
 
I think you're worrying too much about something that won't change much in the long run. A supplement should supplement your diet/training, you shouldn't have to change everything just to run it.
 
ma70 said:
I think you're worrying too much about something that won't change much in the long run. A supplement should supplement your diet/training, you shouldn't have to change everything just to run it.
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Of course, and that's very much the point if a supplement is clashing with another, then it would kind of defeat the purpose of taking it, or at the very least create sub-optimal conditions for it... especially if that combination may actually be counter to the goals/results you are trying to achieve. It may all amount to nothing in this instance and not be worth worrying about, but the way I see it it's best to do these things right and have all the facts. Take ZMA for example... if you were clueless to the whole calcium issue and were chugging down a pint of milk or casein shake every night with your ZMA, then it would be far from optimal. A bit of knowledge on the topic and no problem. This PA thing just seems a bit more tricky though.
 
Johnston said:
Of course, and that's very much the point if a supplement is clashing with another, then it would kind of defeat the purpose of taking it... especially if that combination may actually be counter to the goals/results you are trying to achieve. It may all amount to nothing in this instance and not be worth worrying about, but the way I see it it's best to do these things right and have all the facts. Take ZMA for example... if you were clueless to the whole calcium issue and were chugging down a pint of milk every night with your ZMA, then it would be far from optimal. A bit of knowledge on the topic and no problem. This PA thing just seems a bit more tricky though.
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I've been using EAAs with SL pre-workout and haven't noticed anything negative. The point of the BCAAs or EAAs pre-workout is to prevent muscle catabolism from what I remember, so I don't think you need to worry about SL's effects of blunting MPS.
 
I've tried to find the right dosage but everyone seems assuming differently..
Is there a guideline? I'm 170, 10% bf.
Also is there a better "timing"?

Thanks
 
Qonix said:
I've tried to find the right dosage but everyone seems assuming differently..
Is there a guideline? I'm 170, 10% bf.
Also is there a better "timing"?

Thanks
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I allotment with 25g a day.
days on
25gr prework
days off
12gr post breakfast
12gr post dinner
Danes ok? :)
 
Qonix said:
I've tried to find the right dosage but everyone seems assuming differently..
Is there a guideline? I'm 170, 10% bf.
Also is there a better "timing"?

Thanks
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When it comes to PA, more is better.
Are you taking caps or granules?
 
Qonix said:
I've tried to find the right dosage but everyone seems assuming differently..
Is there a guideline? I'm 170, 10% bf.
Also is there a better "timing"?

Thanks
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Main things to know:
1) Get at least 750mg PA. (just read the label, but remember PA content is standardized from 4-7% so for Fearns, thats at LEAST 3 tbsp)
2) Time it preferably 1 hour pre-workout, but still take on off-days (timing doesn't matter, generally)
 
I finially got around to ordering some sl granules from fern. I liked the micro pa but stopped buying when I found out bioturd was marking it up 5000%
 
@ Qonix
You're right, but in Italy is quite impossible to find (as Optima), and buyng from other countries is very expensive. You can easily find the SL from Now Food at a reasonable price.
 
Feiwong said:
@ Qonix
You're right, but in Italy is quite impossible to find (as Optima), and buyng from other countries is very expensive. You can easily find the SL from Now Food at a reasonable price.
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I hot Fearn's from iherb with a pretty good deal.
Maybe next time I'll buy something at the grocery store for 3-4€ 400gr If it's the same.. I'll take notice of the average 5% pa content
 
I am doing the PA caps plus one tablespoon of SL. I take the PA caps pwo then the scoop of the SL in my post workout shake. I find this protocol works best for me.
 
Danes said:
I got tired of Granules so I am using enriched PA caps instead
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To much money bro, do you know somewhere to get the caps cheap or do you just have disposable income and you dont care?
 
ma70 said:
Main things to know:
1) Get at least 750mg PA. (just read the label, but remember PA content is standardized from 4-7% so for Fearns, thats at LEAST 3 tbsp)
2) Time it preferably 1 hour pre-workout, but still take on off-days (timing doesn't matter, generally)
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Is there a difference between say 20-30 minutes pre, and 1 hour pre? What's more optimal?
 
I like it most 1 to 2 hours pre if I take it with a meal. If fasted half an hour is fine. Thats what I have found out after a can of use.
 
haven't checked in on this thread for a long while, so forgive me for not searching through the past 30 pages or so...

i've used SL granules before with good results, however ended up gaining some fat as i had difficulty controlling my macros while using it. stopped for a while and cut the fat back off. now i'm looking to start PA again, and debating whether to give SL another shot with better discipline, or biting the $ bullet and going with caps.

for caps, is there anything new around worth considering beyond Phospha Muscle or King? i am assuming Phospha Muscle has more PA per dose than King, is that correct? is PM currently the most cost effective capped product? i see PM for $40, and King for $32, but am assuming King is a bit underdosed.
 
Given the unknown dose in King and possibility to score Phospa Muscle for $30 at an auction site, there are no alternative choices currently.
 
Found that mixing in water and chugging down is the best way for me.
Downside.. 200kcals which I would rather have in a different way.. At least hope this PA it's not just hype
 
Qonix said:
Found that mixing in water and chugging down is the best way for me.
Downside.. 200kcals which I would rather have in a different way.. At least hope this PA it's not just hype
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I agree, that's why I've been reluctant to start up PA. 200 calories when you're eating at a slight deficit is a lot. Definitely interested to see how you like it though
 
john.patterson said:
I agree, that's why I've been reluctant to start up PA. 200 calories when you're eating at a slight deficit is a lot. Definitely interested to see how you like it though
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yea :/ also 25gr should be 2g of PA.. isn't "too much"? I've heard 750mg is the recommended dosage
 
john.patterson said:
Yeah most logs I've read that's the minimum that people are taking, so those calories are gonna add up quick
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still.. 750mg of PA with SL is less than 100kcal.. which could be more acceptable..
btw i've just started on monday.. so it's pretty early to tell if it's doing anything
 
For all these reasons (calories,bloat and estrogenic effect) I'd advise SL on bulking and PA through King or Phospa Muscle or whatever on cutting.
 
I went through 9lb of the Lekithos sunflower lecithin. For the most part I ran 2g PA per day but I also went up to 4g as tangible effects diminished after the first 5lb. I've been off it for 2 weeks to get to evaluate Clear Muscle solo and I haven't missed it.

Now that I got (2) Phospha Muscle I will add some after the 6th week on Clear Muscle to see what changes if anything. It maybe that I am better off cycling PA as both my runs (6 months apart, coming off a cut) worked tremendously the first 2 months. Not untypical for my body to get used to stuff quickly.
 
Feiwong said:
For all these reasons (calories,bloat and estrogenic effect) I'd advise SL on bulking and PA through King or Phospa Muscle or whatever on cutting.
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There isn't going to be an esteogenic effect from the granules, and I would not rely on the standard dose of King V2 to provide 750mg PA. Phospha Muscle is a good option, although it's expensive.
 
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